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PM Rishi Sunak on rapist case: Biological sex 'really matters' PM Rishi Sunak on rapist case: Biological sex 'really matters'
(about 2 hours later)
Isla Bryson started identifying as a woman after being accused of two rapes Rishi Sunak was interviewed by Piers Morgan in 10 Downing Street to mark 100 days in office
Prime Minister Rishi Sunak has said biological sex "really matters" after he was asked about the case of a rapist who was sent to a women's prison.Prime Minister Rishi Sunak has said biological sex "really matters" after he was asked about the case of a rapist who was sent to a women's prison.
Isla Bryson was convicted of attacking two women while known as a man called Adam Graham.Isla Bryson was convicted of attacking two women while known as a man called Adam Graham.
One of the victims later said she was sure Bryson was pretending to be trans to "make life easier".One of the victims later said she was sure Bryson was pretending to be trans to "make life easier".
And First Minister Nicola Sturgeon said she was sure Bryson was "almost certainly" faking being trans.And First Minister Nicola Sturgeon said she was sure Bryson was "almost certainly" faking being trans.
Bryson was moved from Cornton Vale to the male prison estate after a public outcry.Bryson was moved from Cornton Vale to the male prison estate after a public outcry.
The case was put to the prime minister in an interview with Piers Morgan for Talk TV to mark Mr Sunak's first 100 days in office.The case was put to the prime minister in an interview with Piers Morgan for Talk TV to mark Mr Sunak's first 100 days in office.
Nicola Sturgeon: Rapist Isla Bryson 'almost certainly' faking trans statusNicola Sturgeon: Rapist Isla Bryson 'almost certainly' faking trans status
What is the transgender prisoners row all about?What is the transgender prisoners row all about?
Rapist guilty of attacking women before gender changeRapist guilty of attacking women before gender change
Morgan said the case showed the problem of "limitless gender self-identity".Morgan said the case showed the problem of "limitless gender self-identity".
Mr Sunak said it demonstrated "some of the challenges", but added "we must and should have enormous compassion and tolerance and understanding for those who are questioning their gender and identity".Mr Sunak said it demonstrated "some of the challenges", but added "we must and should have enormous compassion and tolerance and understanding for those who are questioning their gender and identity".
"But we have to recognise the challenges that that poses, particularly for women's safety," the prime minister said."But we have to recognise the challenges that that poses, particularly for women's safety," the prime minister said.
"For me… whether it's sex, whether it's women's spaces, whether it's prisons, biological sex really matters." "For me, whether it's sex, whether it's women's spaces, whether it's prisons, biological sex really matters."
Rishi Sunak was interviewed by Piers Morgan in 10 Downing Street to mark 100 days in office Bryson will be sentenced later this month after being convicted of raping two women
During the interview, Morgan asked Mr Sunak for his definition of a woman. The prime minister replied "adult human female", but suggested the TV presenter was actually asking about society's handling of people questioning their gender identity. During the interview, Morgan asked Mr Sunak for his definition of a woman.
On Sunday a "pause" was placed on the transfer to women's jails of trans inmates with convictions for violence after it was reported that another transgender woman, Tiffany Scott - who was convicted of stalking a 13-year-old girl before her transition and has a history of violence - was due to be moved to a female prison. The prime minister replied "adult human female", but suggested the TV presenter was actually asking about society's handling of people questioning their gender identity.
The Bryson case was raised at First Minister's Questions on Thursday by Scottish Conservative leader Douglas Ross on Thursday. Scottish government legislation aimed at allowing people to self-identify their legal sex has been blocked by the UK government over its potential impact on equalities laws, including on female-only spaces.
Mr Ross said: "I believe a double rapist, anyone who rapes a woman, is a man. They cannot be considered anything else. The move was described as a "full-frontal assault" on the Scottish Parliament by First Minister Nicola Sturgeon.
"When a man rapes two women, we don't think that he should be considered a woman just because he says so. We should call out criminals like this who are abusing the system. The first minister has also accused some opponents of the gender reforms of being transphobic and "deeply misogynist, often homophobic, possibly some of them racist as well".
"Adam Graham, who wants to be know as Isla Bryson, raped two women. He is an abusive man seeking to exploit loopholes in the government's current policy." On Thursday, Ms Sturgeon refused to say whether she regarded Bryson as being female after being asked by Scottish Conservative leader Douglas Ross.
Mr Ross asked the first minister: "Is this double rapist a woman?" Ms Sturgeon said she did not have enough information to say whether Bryson's claim to be a woman was valid or not.
She added: "What is relevant is that the individual is a rapist. That is how the individual should be described".
However, the first minister later agreed that Bryson was "almost certainly" faking being trans.
The first minister is challenged to say whether she believes a double rapist is a womanThe first minister is challenged to say whether she believes a double rapist is a woman
The first minister is challenged to say whether she believes a double rapist is a womanThe first minister is challenged to say whether she believes a double rapist is a woman
Ms Sturgeon initially said she did not have enough information to say whether Bryson's claim to be a woman was valid or not. Justice Secretary Keith Brown told BBC Scotland earlier this week that "if somebody presents as a trans person then we accept that on face value."
Mr Ross went on to read a quote from one of Bryson's victims, who said: "I don't believe he is truly transgender. I feel as if he has made a mockery out of them using it. As far as I'm concerned, that was to make things easier for himself. I'm sure he is faking it." Bryson was found guilty last month of raping two women in 2016 and 2019 while known as a man called Adam Graham.
Bryson was convicted of rapes which took place while he was known as Adam Graham She announced after being charged with the two rapes that she now identified as female, with the court hearing that she had started the process of gender re-assignment.
The first minister responded: "My feeling is that is almost certainly the case, which is why the key factor in this case is not the individual's claim to be a woman. Bryson was initially taken to a unit at Cornton Vale in Stirling after being found guilty, before being moved to a male wing at HMP Edinburgh a few days later following a public outcry.
"The key and in fact only important factor in this is that the individual is convicted of rape - the individual is a rapist - and that is the factor that should be the deciding one in decisions about how that prisoner is now treated." She had been able to enrol on a beauty course at Ayrshire College, where she was known as Annie, while awaiting trial and remained there for three months before being asked to leave.
Ms Sturgeon went on to say it was "really important" that trans people are not further stigmatised generally. TV presenter India Willoughby claimed that the current debate around trans issues was being driven by transphobia
She added that there were exemptions under the current UK equality law that "even if it wanted to this parliament couldn't change" that enabled trans women to be excluded from some single sex spaces.
Bryson was found guilty last month of raping two women in 2016 and 2019 before she changed gender after being arrested.
While awaiting trail, she enrolled on a beauty course Ayrshire College, where she was known as Annie, and remained there for three months before being asked to leave.
Her classmates were almost exclusively female and much younger than Bryson, and were not aware of the rape allegations.Her classmates were almost exclusively female and much younger than Bryson, and were not aware of the rape allegations.
Potential impact One former classmate said she felt "violated" after learning of the crimes Bryson had committed.
One former classmate told BBC Scotland last week that she felt "violated" after learning of the crimes Bryson had committed. Scottish government officials have been working colleges and universities with the aim of producing guidance to address concerns about alleged sex offenders enrolling on courses while awaiting trial.
Scottish government legislation aimed at allowing people to self-identify their legal sex has been blocked by the UK government over its potential impact on equalities laws. On Sunday a "pause" was placed on the transfer to women's jails of trans inmates with convictions for violence.
The UK government said during a Westminster debate on Thursday that it was up to the Scottish government to bring forward a new Gender Recognition Reform bill that addresses the legal issues which caused the bill to be blocked. It followed reports that another transgender woman, Tiffany Scott - who was convicted of stalking a 13-year-old girl before her transition and has a history of violence - was due to be moved to a female prison.
Cabinet Office minister Alex Burghart said the decision to block the legislation using what is known as a Section 35 order was used very carefully and reluctantly in order to preserve the balance of powers between Scotland and England. Loose Women host India Willoughby - who was Britain's first transgender national television newsreader - told the BBC's Question Time that the "toxic" debate around transgender issues was being driven by "a lot of misinformation by a media that is completely transphobic".
SNP MP Patrick Grady said the UK government should publish its own amendments to the Bill to make it acceptable and claimed the Conservatives were undermining the Scottish Parliament. She claimed that stories of transgender prisoners being placed in spaces with other women were "not true", adding: "There is categorically no way somebody who has committed rape would be moved into the women's estate."
She said: "There are bad apples in all walks of life. There are bad Protestants, there are bad Catholics, bad lesbians, or bad gays, and yes, there are bad trans people.
"And all of those people, if they do something criminal and are found guilty, they deserve to go to jail and to be punished in a jail that is suitable for them and where everybody else is safe."