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MPs to vote on Lords reform plans MPs to vote on Lords reform plans
(about 3 hours later)
MPs have finished the first of two days of debate on the future of the House of Lords, with a final decision expected on Wednesday. MPs have held the first of two days of debate on the future of the House of Lords, with a final decision expected on Wednesday.
Commons leader Jack Straw has put forward several choices, ranging from all members of the Lords being elected to all being appointed.Commons leader Jack Straw has put forward several choices, ranging from all members of the Lords being elected to all being appointed.
"The choice in my judgment is stark - change or wither away," he said. "The choice in my judgement is stark - change or wither away," he said.
Most MPs are thought to support a "hybrid" Lords but with varying ratios of elected members and appointees.Most MPs are thought to support a "hybrid" Lords but with varying ratios of elected members and appointees.
OptionsOptions
MPs of all parties will get a free vote on the issue.MPs of all parties will get a free vote on the issue.
The choices before MPs are: all elected; 80% elected and 20% appointed; 60% elected and 40% appointed; half and half; 40% elected and 60% appointed; 20% elected and 80% appointed; all appointedThe choices before MPs are: all elected; 80% elected and 20% appointed; 60% elected and 40% appointed; half and half; 40% elected and 60% appointed; 20% elected and 80% appointed; all appointed
Mr Straw will vote in favour of three of the options - 50%, 60% or 80% of the upper house being elected.Mr Straw will vote in favour of three of the options - 50%, 60% or 80% of the upper house being elected.
REFORM PROPOSALS A 'hybrid' of elected and appointed peersReduce size of House from 746 to 540 membersEnd hereditary and life peerages over timeElected peers to be voted in at same time as Euro electionsMaximum time in office of 15 years for elected and appointed peersAppointees a mixture of party politicians and non-party figuresLords may be renamed - possibly 'The Reformed Chamber'Anglican bishops and archbishops to keep seats Plans at-a-glance Full text of White Paper Will entire reform falter?REFORM PROPOSALS A 'hybrid' of elected and appointed peersReduce size of House from 746 to 540 membersEnd hereditary and life peerages over timeElected peers to be voted in at same time as Euro electionsMaximum time in office of 15 years for elected and appointed peersAppointees a mixture of party politicians and non-party figuresLords may be renamed - possibly 'The Reformed Chamber'Anglican bishops and archbishops to keep seats Plans at-a-glance Full text of White Paper Will entire reform falter?
It is possible for more than one of the choices to be backed by a majority of MPs.It is possible for more than one of the choices to be backed by a majority of MPs.
However, as no bill is being debated, the most popular option will not pass into law - but is likely to inform future government policy.However, as no bill is being debated, the most popular option will not pass into law - but is likely to inform future government policy.
The last time the Commons voted on Lords reform, Mr Straw backed plans for a wholly appointed upper house.The last time the Commons voted on Lords reform, Mr Straw backed plans for a wholly appointed upper house.
He told MPs that while he initially thought an elected second chamber would "undermine" the primacy of the Commons, he had since changed his mind.He told MPs that while he initially thought an elected second chamber would "undermine" the primacy of the Commons, he had since changed his mind.
But he admitted that if there was a partially or wholly elected upper house, "then the appetite to challenge this place [the Commons] will increase."We have to anticipate that when drawing up the framework for how a second house will work," Mr Straw said.But he admitted that if there was a partially or wholly elected upper house, "then the appetite to challenge this place [the Commons] will increase."We have to anticipate that when drawing up the framework for how a second house will work," Mr Straw said.
Shadow Commons leader Theresa May said she was also unconcerned about any "threat" to the Commons posed by an elected second chamber.Shadow Commons leader Theresa May said she was also unconcerned about any "threat" to the Commons posed by an elected second chamber.
"The primacy of the Commons should remain the basis of our democracy. The primacy of this place comes from its powers, not merely the process by which its membership is chosen."The primacy of the Commons should remain the basis of our democracy. The primacy of this place comes from its powers, not merely the process by which its membership is chosen.
"Fear of challenge is a sign of weakness, not strength. We should not fear reform of the Lords, we should welcome it as a means of strengthening it and our democracy", she said."Fear of challenge is a sign of weakness, not strength. We should not fear reform of the Lords, we should welcome it as a means of strengthening it and our democracy", she said.
'Mistake''Mistake'
Liberal Democrat constitutional affairs spokesman Simon Hughes said his party would only vote for the 80% and 100% elected options.Liberal Democrat constitutional affairs spokesman Simon Hughes said his party would only vote for the 80% and 100% elected options.
He added: "This could be a historic week, and it will be if we don't make the mistake of February 2003 [when attempts to reform the Lords failed]."He added: "This could be a historic week, and it will be if we don't make the mistake of February 2003 [when attempts to reform the Lords failed]."
At the moment all peers are appointed, apart from the 92 hereditary peers who survived the first phase of Lords reform during Tony Blair's first term in office.At the moment all peers are appointed, apart from the 92 hereditary peers who survived the first phase of Lords reform during Tony Blair's first term in office.
Labour's Bill Etherington asked for the monarch to be replaced by an elected president.Labour's Bill Etherington asked for the monarch to be replaced by an elected president.
He said: "Just as we are going to get rid of hereditaries out of the House of Lords, which I presume we are going to do, we perhaps also should look at the monarchy.He said: "Just as we are going to get rid of hereditaries out of the House of Lords, which I presume we are going to do, we perhaps also should look at the monarchy.
"I don't see why we should have a head of state who is there just by family.""I don't see why we should have a head of state who is there just by family."
Mr Etherington also said: "Much as I like the idea of a second chamber, if we can't have one that's fully elected, I think I would sooner see it abolished."Mr Etherington also said: "Much as I like the idea of a second chamber, if we can't have one that's fully elected, I think I would sooner see it abolished."