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| Leveson Inquiry: Victims' lawyer tells of surveillance | Leveson Inquiry: Victims' lawyer tells of surveillance |
| (40 minutes later) | |
| A victims' lawyer has described to the Leveson Inquiry seeing surveillance evidence of her and her family. | A victims' lawyer has described to the Leveson Inquiry seeing surveillance evidence of her and her family. |
| Charlotte Harris said she went to News International and the police in 2010 after seeing a dossier on her that was "littered with inaccuracies". | Charlotte Harris said she went to News International and the police in 2010 after seeing a dossier on her that was "littered with inaccuracies". |
| Lord Justice Leveson is examining the ethics of the media at the Royal Courts of Justice in London. | Lord Justice Leveson is examining the ethics of the media at the Royal Courts of Justice in London. |
| Guardian journalist David Leigh has also given evidence. Documentary maker Chris Atkins will appear later. | Guardian journalist David Leigh has also given evidence. Documentary maker Chris Atkins will appear later. |
| Another witness, salesman Steven Nott from Cwmbran, in Torfaen, earlier told the inquiry how he warned of a phone security loophole in 1999. | Another witness, salesman Steven Nott from Cwmbran, in Torfaen, earlier told the inquiry how he warned of a phone security loophole in 1999. |
| Ms Harris, of law firm Mishcon de Reya, has represented phone hacking victims including sports agent Sky Andrew and celebrity couple Leslie Ash and Lee Chapman. In 2010 News of the World hired a private detective to follow her and fellow victims' lawyer Mark Lewis. | Ms Harris, of law firm Mishcon de Reya, has represented phone hacking victims including sports agent Sky Andrew and celebrity couple Leslie Ash and Lee Chapman. In 2010 News of the World hired a private detective to follow her and fellow victims' lawyer Mark Lewis. |
| Ms Harris said it was unsettling to discover that News International had commissioned surveillance on her. | |
| "It's a little bit disconcerting to be sitting next to apparently eminent lawyers in court to find out, a year ago they ordered some surveillance on you." She said to take out surveillance made no sense when she already had a professional relationship with News International. | "It's a little bit disconcerting to be sitting next to apparently eminent lawyers in court to find out, a year ago they ordered some surveillance on you." She said to take out surveillance made no sense when she already had a professional relationship with News International. |
| Ms Harris said sometimes not knowing which specific information had been accessed caused the most stress. "It's what you don't know that can cause I think stress - that itself might be a new form of harassment to look into." | Ms Harris said sometimes not knowing which specific information had been accessed caused the most stress. "It's what you don't know that can cause I think stress - that itself might be a new form of harassment to look into." |
| "As a lawyer I feel very much that I want to focus on my cases and clients and I don't want mischief from the other side like surveillance," she said. "As a mother it's natural to feel terribly uncomfortable." | "As a lawyer I feel very much that I want to focus on my cases and clients and I don't want mischief from the other side like surveillance," she said. "As a mother it's natural to feel terribly uncomfortable." |
| Ms Harris said the media appeared to have been more cautious since the inquiry was launched. "I think that the press have been - during this inquiry - more careful. I think my workload in terms of scandal, has been reduced," she said. | Ms Harris said the media appeared to have been more cautious since the inquiry was launched. "I think that the press have been - during this inquiry - more careful. I think my workload in terms of scandal, has been reduced," she said. |
| 'Interpretations of law' | 'Interpretations of law' |
| Mr Leigh, the Guardian's investigations editor, told the inquiry that journalists challenged the law and that sometimes it was difficult to stay on the right side of civil law. | Mr Leigh, the Guardian's investigations editor, told the inquiry that journalists challenged the law and that sometimes it was difficult to stay on the right side of civil law. |
| "We constantly find ourselves in collision with different interpretations of the law," he said. But Mr Leigh said he had never knowingly been in breach of criminal law. | "We constantly find ourselves in collision with different interpretations of the law," he said. But Mr Leigh said he had never knowingly been in breach of criminal law. |
| Mr Leigh said the Guardian's culture was supposed to be ethical, candid and open-minded. He said he understood that tabloid culture was different. "There's a climate of 'anything goes'; there's a climate of almost delighting in roguery." | Mr Leigh said the Guardian's culture was supposed to be ethical, candid and open-minded. He said he understood that tabloid culture was different. "There's a climate of 'anything goes'; there's a climate of almost delighting in roguery." |
| Mr Leigh said "the end doesn't always justify the means" in journalism. "It's case-by-case - it depends absolutely on the particular circumstances of a particular case," he said. "Public interest is the central point - I mean that's the compass really." | Mr Leigh said "the end doesn't always justify the means" in journalism. "It's case-by-case - it depends absolutely on the particular circumstances of a particular case," he said. "Public interest is the central point - I mean that's the compass really." |
| Asked where the boundaries of journalism lay, Mr Leigh said: "I don't - we don't - use private detectives. I don't - we don't - harass people, normally. I don't - we don't - intrude into people's sex lives, usually. We don't practice chequebook journalism as a rule." | |
| But he said situations such as the Daily Telegraph's purchase of information on the MPs' expenses scandal tested such boundaries. | But he said situations such as the Daily Telegraph's purchase of information on the MPs' expenses scandal tested such boundaries. |
| "I've often scratched my head about this and thought it's a good job that the person selling that didn't come to me," he said. But Mr Leigh said most people now agreed that the Telegraph was right to buy the information because it had been so clearly in the public interest. | "I've often scratched my head about this and thought it's a good job that the person selling that didn't come to me," he said. But Mr Leigh said most people now agreed that the Telegraph was right to buy the information because it had been so clearly in the public interest. |
| Mr Leigh admitted that he committed subtefuge against Mark Thatcher, when he was trying to prove the former PM's son was employed by an arms company and knew a middleman called Jamal. | Mr Leigh admitted that he committed subtefuge against Mark Thatcher, when he was trying to prove the former PM's son was employed by an arms company and knew a middleman called Jamal. |
| Mr Leigh said he telephoned Number 10 and asked to speak to Mr Thatcher. Mr Thatcher picked up the phone and cheerily answered, "Hi Jamal" - proving the connection. | |
| Mr Leigh said the subtefuge was "minor, temporary and completely defensible". | Mr Leigh said the subtefuge was "minor, temporary and completely defensible". |
| 'Head of ethics' | 'Head of ethics' |
| He said new journalists left their training courses "with a head full of ethics" but could come under pressure once they joined the tabloid press. | He said new journalists left their training courses "with a head full of ethics" but could come under pressure once they joined the tabloid press. |
| "The pressures that operate on the editor of the Guardian or the Financial Times are quite different, I suspect, to the pressures that operate on the Daily Mail or the News of the World." | "The pressures that operate on the editor of the Guardian or the Financial Times are quite different, I suspect, to the pressures that operate on the Daily Mail or the News of the World." |
| "You have to make people fear the law," he said. He said most of the areas of concern raised at the inquiry were crimes and that the issue that had been circled around was that "the law is not enforced". | "You have to make people fear the law," he said. He said most of the areas of concern raised at the inquiry were crimes and that the issue that had been circled around was that "the law is not enforced". |
| Mr Leigh wrote about phone hacking after former News of the World royal correspondent Clive Goodman had admitted illegally accessing the phones of royal aides. In his article Mr Leigh said he too had hacked into someone's phone while "looking for evidence of bribery and corruption". | Mr Leigh wrote about phone hacking after former News of the World royal correspondent Clive Goodman had admitted illegally accessing the phones of royal aides. In his article Mr Leigh said he too had hacked into someone's phone while "looking for evidence of bribery and corruption". |
| Questioned on this by counsel for the inquiry, David Barr, Mr Leigh said: "Well, I don't hack phones - normally. I've have never done anything like that since and I had never done anything like that before. | |
| "I'd like to think if the incident came to the attention of the DPP (Department of Public Prosecutions) and I was asked about it, the DPP would conclude there was no public interest in suing me and that's the backstop that the law has got." | |
| 'Fobbed off' | 'Fobbed off' |
| Mr Nott earlier described how he warned Vodafone, journalists and the police about the potential for phone hacking in 1999. | Mr Nott earlier described how he warned Vodafone, journalists and the police about the potential for phone hacking in 1999. |
| He said he complained to Vodafone after learning his voicemail could be accessed using a default Pin code. | |
| "I had that moment when I thought to myself, 'This is insecure,' straight away," he said. | |
| Mr Nott said he asked Vodafone whether the default Pin system meant he could access anyone's voicemail, after being told how to check his own remotely and was told, "Yes you can, but you're not supposed to." | |
| He told the inquiry he subsequently rang Vodafone on numerous occasions but "kept getting fobbed off all the time". | He told the inquiry he subsequently rang Vodafone on numerous occasions but "kept getting fobbed off all the time". |
| He said he told the Daily Mirror about it, was told the newspaper had been ringing around testing his claims and that he was given the impression they would publish an article on it. | He said he told the Daily Mirror about it, was told the newspaper had been ringing around testing his claims and that he was given the impression they would publish an article on it. |
| After discovering they were not going to run the story, Mr Nott said he became concerned that they would use the information to access phones themselves. | After discovering they were not going to run the story, Mr Nott said he became concerned that they would use the information to access phones themselves. |
| "I then accused (reporter) Oonagh Blackman over the phone of possibly keeping that information to themselves for that purpose," Mr Nott told the inquiry. He said she in turn threatened him with legal action if he went public with the information he had shared with the newspaper. | "I then accused (reporter) Oonagh Blackman over the phone of possibly keeping that information to themselves for that purpose," Mr Nott told the inquiry. He said she in turn threatened him with legal action if he went public with the information he had shared with the newspaper. |
| Mr Nott said he contacted Scotland Yard and organisations including MI5 and the National Council of Civil Liberties about the security loophole. | |
| He said eventually he went to BBC Radio 5 live who broadcast a short story in 1999. | He said eventually he went to BBC Radio 5 live who broadcast a short story in 1999. |
| Lord Justice Leveson's inquiry is looking at the "culture, practices and ethics of the media" and whether the self-regulation of the press works. | Lord Justice Leveson's inquiry is looking at the "culture, practices and ethics of the media" and whether the self-regulation of the press works. |