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Version 12 Version 13
Leveson inquiry: Lord Mandelson and Tessa Jowell - live Leveson inquiry: Lord Mandelson and Tessa Jowell appear
(about 6 hours later)
9.46am: Good morning and welcome to the Leveson inquiry live blog.9.46am: Good morning and welcome to the Leveson inquiry live blog.
Lord Mandelson, the long-serving Labour cabinet minister, and the former culture secretary Tessa Jowell will give evidence today.Lord Mandelson, the long-serving Labour cabinet minister, and the former culture secretary Tessa Jowell will give evidence today.
For more than a decade, Mandelson was at the heart of both the Tony Blair and Gordon Brown governments. He served in the cabinet as Northern Ireland secretary from 1999 to 2001, as the business secretary from 2008 to 2010 and as the European commissioner for trade from 2004 to 2008. The former MP for Hartlepool has twice resigned from government.For more than a decade, Mandelson was at the heart of both the Tony Blair and Gordon Brown governments. He served in the cabinet as Northern Ireland secretary from 1999 to 2001, as the business secretary from 2008 to 2010 and as the European commissioner for trade from 2004 to 2008. The former MP for Hartlepool has twice resigned from government.
Tessa Jowell, the serving shadow minister for the Olympics and a victim of phone hacking by the News of the World, will also testify on Monday.Tessa Jowell, the serving shadow minister for the Olympics and a victim of phone hacking by the News of the World, will also testify on Monday.
Jowell was the culture secretary for six years under Blair, from 2001 to 2007. In January 2011, Jowell was told by Scotland Yard she was a phone hacking target in 2006. A year later, Jowell reached an out-of-court settlement with News International, the publisher of the now-defunct Sunday tabloid.Jowell was the culture secretary for six years under Blair, from 2001 to 2007. In January 2011, Jowell was told by Scotland Yard she was a phone hacking target in 2006. A year later, Jowell reached an out-of-court settlement with News International, the publisher of the now-defunct Sunday tabloid.
The inquiry begins at 10am.The inquiry begins at 10am.
Please note that comments have been switched off or legal reasons.Please note that comments have been switched off or legal reasons.
10.06am: Tessa Jowell, the former culture secretary, has taken the witness stand.10.06am: Tessa Jowell, the former culture secretary, has taken the witness stand.
David Barr, counsel to the inquiry, is leading questioning of Jowell.David Barr, counsel to the inquiry, is leading questioning of Jowell.
10.08am: Jowell tells the inquiry there are no longer copies of her ministerial diaries and meeting notes, but she has submitted several documents along with her written witness statement.10.08am: Jowell tells the inquiry there are no longer copies of her ministerial diaries and meeting notes, but she has submitted several documents along with her written witness statement.
10.11am: Jowell is asked about the Communications Act.10.11am: Jowell is asked about the Communications Act.
She says it was one of the particularly pressing issues when appointed to the job, including cross-media ownership rules.She says it was one of the particularly pressing issues when appointed to the job, including cross-media ownership rules.
10.12am: Jowell adds that she received a categorical confirmation from the then prime minister, Tony Blair, that "no deal had been reached" with Rupert Murdoch about new ownership rules.10.12am: Jowell adds that she received a categorical confirmation from the then prime minister, Tony Blair, that "no deal had been reached" with Rupert Murdoch about new ownership rules.
I asked him whether any deal had been done with Rupert Murdoch on the reform of cross-media ownership rules. He gave me an absolute assurance there had been no prior agreement. I had no constraint on the conclusions I might reach … I said, 'In that case it is best that you don't see the parties and you let me take this policy and come back to you with proposals and we can reach agreement.'I asked him whether any deal had been done with Rupert Murdoch on the reform of cross-media ownership rules. He gave me an absolute assurance there had been no prior agreement. I had no constraint on the conclusions I might reach … I said, 'In that case it is best that you don't see the parties and you let me take this policy and come back to you with proposals and we can reach agreement.'
Barr asks if Blair discussed with her how he wanted to deal with Murdoch.Barr asks if Blair discussed with her how he wanted to deal with Murdoch.
"No, he didn't," says Jowell"No, he didn't," says Jowell
10.16am: Jowell says she wanted to "deregulate" the media without jeopardising the elements that the public valued most.10.16am: Jowell says she wanted to "deregulate" the media without jeopardising the elements that the public valued most.
She wanted to make sure that her proposals "were not being undermined" by media owners going straight to No 10.She wanted to make sure that her proposals "were not being undermined" by media owners going straight to No 10.
Jowell says this was not a concern specific to the media, but acknowledged the "combustible potential" of the act and wanted to limit the noise around her work.Jowell says this was not a concern specific to the media, but acknowledged the "combustible potential" of the act and wanted to limit the noise around her work.
There was always a temptation ... if parties to our policies didn't like the view that was being expressed by the relevant secretary of state they would try to go round the back door to No 10. I was trying to make sure I was the secretary of state solely responsible for bringing forward changes to media regulation.There was always a temptation ... if parties to our policies didn't like the view that was being expressed by the relevant secretary of state they would try to go round the back door to No 10. I was trying to make sure I was the secretary of state solely responsible for bringing forward changes to media regulation.
10.18am: Jowell says the Department for Culture, Media and Sport also was seeking to consolidate media regulation in one body, Ofcom; deregulate elsewhere; and comply with EU law.10.18am: Jowell says the Department for Culture, Media and Sport also was seeking to consolidate media regulation in one body, Ofcom; deregulate elsewhere; and comply with EU law.
She adds that the DCMS received more than 230 written submissions during its consultation on the Communications Act.She adds that the DCMS received more than 230 written submissions during its consultation on the Communications Act.
10.23am: Jowell is asked about foreign ownership of terrestrial broadcasters.10.23am: Jowell is asked about foreign ownership of terrestrial broadcasters.
She says she was concerned not to jeopardise quality or plurality of the media while opening up the possibility of US, Japanese or Australian investment in the sector.She says she was concerned not to jeopardise quality or plurality of the media while opening up the possibility of US, Japanese or Australian investment in the sector.
10.24am: News International and other big media groups made clear that competition law alone was sufficient to ensure plurality, Jowell says.10.24am: News International and other big media groups made clear that competition law alone was sufficient to ensure plurality, Jowell says.
Barr suggests Rupert Murdoch would have been happy with the act's rules on foreign ownership of terrestrial broadcasters.Barr suggests Rupert Murdoch would have been happy with the act's rules on foreign ownership of terrestrial broadcasters.
10.31am: Barr turns to a briefing note from Jowell to Blair about cross-media ownership.10.31am: Barr turns to a briefing note from Jowell to Blair about cross-media ownership.
Anyone who owned more than 20% of the national newspaper market would be precluded from taking a significant stake in Channel 5, Barr says, using the third commercial broadcaster as one example.Anyone who owned more than 20% of the national newspaper market would be precluded from taking a significant stake in Channel 5, Barr says, using the third commercial broadcaster as one example.
In another note on media ownership rules, Jowell told Blair: "we will be accused of giving in to Murdoch but, in fact, there will still be major controls on his activity".In another note on media ownership rules, Jowell told Blair: "we will be accused of giving in to Murdoch but, in fact, there will still be major controls on his activity".
Jowell says she was clear that the government had to retain cross-media ownership rules to prevent "disproportionate control" of the industry.Jowell says she was clear that the government had to retain cross-media ownership rules to prevent "disproportionate control" of the industry.
Although we explored the possibility of further deregulation by getting rid of the 20% rule I disagreed with that, the 20% rule remained," says Jowell.Although we explored the possibility of further deregulation by getting rid of the 20% rule I disagreed with that, the 20% rule remained," says Jowell.
"I was very clear we had to retain cross media ownership rules in order to prevent the concentration of disproportionate control.""I was very clear we had to retain cross media ownership rules in order to prevent the concentration of disproportionate control."
10.31am: Jowell is asked about her contacts with media groups.10.31am: Jowell is asked about her contacts with media groups.
"We invited lobbying from media groups and those representing public interest organisations," Jowell says, adding that she had more than 150 meetings."We invited lobbying from media groups and those representing public interest organisations," Jowell says, adding that she had more than 150 meetings.
10.37am: Jowells's witness statement has now been published on the Leveson inquiry website.10.37am: Jowells's witness statement has now been published on the Leveson inquiry website.
10.41am: Barr turns to another briefing note, prepared by Jowell and Patricia Hewitt, for Tony Blair in March 2002 on the communications bill. It was followed by a meeting with Blair.10.41am: Barr turns to another briefing note, prepared by Jowell and Patricia Hewitt, for Tony Blair in March 2002 on the communications bill. It was followed by a meeting with Blair.
It said that News International and Sky – "not one company but linked in most people's minds" – could also expand into local press and local radio. However, it would be barred from owning ITV or Channel 5 because owned more than 20% of the national newspaper market.It said that News International and Sky – "not one company but linked in most people's minds" – could also expand into local press and local radio. However, it would be barred from owning ITV or Channel 5 because owned more than 20% of the national newspaper market.
Jowell says she has no specific recollection of the meeting. "The prime minister's instincts were more deregulatory than mine, he pushed me further than I would have gone myself in exploring deregulatory options," she adds.Jowell says she has no specific recollection of the meeting. "The prime minister's instincts were more deregulatory than mine, he pushed me further than I would have gone myself in exploring deregulatory options," she adds.
Barr asks if there was any discussion special adviser level about how this issue might affect the Labour party's relationship with Murdoch.Barr asks if there was any discussion special adviser level about how this issue might affect the Labour party's relationship with Murdoch.
"No, there was no discussion of that," sha says."No, there was no discussion of that," sha says.
10.52am: News Corporation had lobbied for the removal of 20% ownership bar, Barr says. It was ultimately removed in relation to Channel 5, but not ITV.10.52am: News Corporation had lobbied for the removal of 20% ownership bar, Barr says. It was ultimately removed in relation to Channel 5, but not ITV.
Barr wants to explore how this came about.Barr wants to explore how this came about.
Neither Rupert Murdoch nor Les Hinton expressed a precise interest in Channel 5, Jowell explains, but warned cross-media ownership rules relaxed across the networks.Neither Rupert Murdoch nor Les Hinton expressed a precise interest in Channel 5, Jowell explains, but warned cross-media ownership rules relaxed across the networks.
Jowell says:Jowell says:
It was a decision reached in the course of the discussion with the prime minister. As I had made clear at the outset I was the secretary of state responsible for taking the decisions but you will see ... that what I was concerned to ensure was if we lifted the 20% restriction and opened up the possibility of a new owner who already had substantial newspapers interests, that we could not get to the point ... where supposing it had been Rupert Murdoch and I want to make it absolutely clear neither he nor Les Hinton had expressed to my recollection a precise interest in Channel 5, they were interested in getting rid of all the cross ownership rules. But the safeguards I wanted to ensure was if C5 exploded from being a tiny terrestrial company Ofcom would be in a position to ensure they took a nominated news provider and they would be in a position to exercise the content control that ITV was accountable to.It was a decision reached in the course of the discussion with the prime minister. As I had made clear at the outset I was the secretary of state responsible for taking the decisions but you will see ... that what I was concerned to ensure was if we lifted the 20% restriction and opened up the possibility of a new owner who already had substantial newspapers interests, that we could not get to the point ... where supposing it had been Rupert Murdoch and I want to make it absolutely clear neither he nor Les Hinton had expressed to my recollection a precise interest in Channel 5, they were interested in getting rid of all the cross ownership rules. But the safeguards I wanted to ensure was if C5 exploded from being a tiny terrestrial company Ofcom would be in a position to ensure they took a nominated news provider and they would be in a position to exercise the content control that ITV was accountable to.
Barr asks if Blair's more deregulatory view affected her own position.Barr asks if Blair's more deregulatory view affected her own position.
"Of course it did because he is the prime minister," Jowell says. "When you are secretary of state and the prime minister has a slightly different view from the one you are advancing you take that seriously.""Of course it did because he is the prime minister," Jowell says. "When you are secretary of state and the prime minister has a slightly different view from the one you are advancing you take that seriously."
10.53am: The Guardian's Dan Sabbagh has just tweeted:10.53am: The Guardian's Dan Sabbagh has just tweeted:
V int point, Blair challenged Jowell on whether Murdochs could buy ITV as Comms Bill was being drafted.V int point, Blair challenged Jowell on whether Murdochs could buy ITV as Comms Bill was being drafted.
— Dan Sabbagh (@dansabbagh) May 21, 2012— Dan Sabbagh (@dansabbagh) May 21, 2012
10.58am: Allowing Murdoch to buy Channel 5 was "a politically controversial development," says Barr.10.58am: Allowing Murdoch to buy Channel 5 was "a politically controversial development," says Barr.
Jowell responds: "There are those that would have strong views on either side".Jowell responds: "There are those that would have strong views on either side".
She says she cannot remember whether she spoke to Gordon Brown or other ministers confidentially about sensitive cross-media ownership rules to be proposed by the Communications Act.She says she cannot remember whether she spoke to Gordon Brown or other ministers confidentially about sensitive cross-media ownership rules to be proposed by the Communications Act.
We had to see this as intensely politically sensitive, yes. The noise is more politically energising than the substance of the proposals. The important thing was to make sure everyone understood the substance.We had to see this as intensely politically sensitive, yes. The noise is more politically energising than the substance of the proposals. The important thing was to make sure everyone understood the substance.
Jowell adds that there was a lot of "noise" in the media about the potential for this act to open the door further for Murdoch, but that policy-making was a more rational process.Jowell adds that there was a lot of "noise" in the media about the potential for this act to open the door further for Murdoch, but that policy-making was a more rational process.
"I would have had these conversations with these four senior colleagues and taken them through all the proposals. They were more than just lifting the restriction on Channel 5.""I would have had these conversations with these four senior colleagues and taken them through all the proposals. They were more than just lifting the restriction on Channel 5."
11.02am: Jowell does not accept that the act in relation to Channel 5 was a big development and maintains that it was "proprietor neutral".11.02am: Jowell does not accept that the act in relation to Channel 5 was a big development and maintains that it was "proprietor neutral".
She says that the media would have seen the development in one of two ways: pro-Murdoch or anti-Murdoch. "But the perception is less important than good policy," she adds.She says that the media would have seen the development in one of two ways: pro-Murdoch or anti-Murdoch. "But the perception is less important than good policy," she adds.
Barr says that there was media speculation at the time that Murdoch was interested in Channel 5.Barr says that there was media speculation at the time that Murdoch was interested in Channel 5.
Jowell maintains that a whole range of potential owners could have been interested in buying Channel 5 at the time, which is what the act aimed to allow.Jowell maintains that a whole range of potential owners could have been interested in buying Channel 5 at the time, which is what the act aimed to allow.
11.09am: Barr turns to the "endgame" of the Communications Act, referring to the amendment proposed by Lord Puttnam.11.09am: Barr turns to the "endgame" of the Communications Act, referring to the amendment proposed by Lord Puttnam.
It was proposed that a public interest test should be added as an "overarching longstop" to prevent any takeover that would damage plurality.It was proposed that a public interest test should be added as an "overarching longstop" to prevent any takeover that would damage plurality.
Jowell says she "didn't think it was necessary" because the act already had sufficient safeguards.Jowell says she "didn't think it was necessary" because the act already had sufficient safeguards.
11.10am: Jowell later met Puttnam about a proposed plurality test for the Communications Act.11.10am: Jowell later met Puttnam about a proposed plurality test for the Communications Act.
Jowell and Hewitt then wrote to Blair asking him to make a concession which would "help avoid defeats across the board" in the House of Lords.Jowell and Hewitt then wrote to Blair asking him to make a concession which would "help avoid defeats across the board" in the House of Lords.
"That is the stuff of policy development and managing parliamentary process," says Jowell. The concession was agreed in principle by the prime minister."That is the stuff of policy development and managing parliamentary process," says Jowell. The concession was agreed in principle by the prime minister.
11.12am: The Guardian's Dan Sabbagh has just tweeted:11.12am: The Guardian's Dan Sabbagh has just tweeted:
Judging by this perf from Jowell at Leveson, expect another deluge of departmental memos from Jeremy Hunt, when the cult sec turns up.Judging by this perf from Jowell at Leveson, expect another deluge of departmental memos from Jeremy Hunt, when the cult sec turns up.
— Dan Sabbagh (@dansabbagh) May 21, 2012— Dan Sabbagh (@dansabbagh) May 21, 2012
11.13am: Barr puts it to Jowell that Puttnam was seeking to "close the door" to Murdoch using a plurality test; the peer was seeking to avoid an Italian-style "videocracy".11.13am: Barr puts it to Jowell that Puttnam was seeking to "close the door" to Murdoch using a plurality test; the peer was seeking to avoid an Italian-style "videocracy".
She agrees, adding:She agrees, adding:
"At this point negotiations were quite tense because of the pressure of time. Positions were becoming hardened.""At this point negotiations were quite tense because of the pressure of time. Positions were becoming hardened."
11.17am: An amendment was later agreed in a way that would not entirely close the door on News Corporation or other groups buying Channel 5, says Barr.11.17am: An amendment was later agreed in a way that would not entirely close the door on News Corporation or other groups buying Channel 5, says Barr.
11.19am: Jowell is asked about an Independent article in which Lord Puttnam alleges he was misled about her department's meetings with newspaper groups over the act.11.19am: Jowell is asked about an Independent article in which Lord Puttnam alleges he was misled about her department's meetings with newspaper groups over the act.
"I certainly don't believe that was the case," she says, adding that his comments as reported were "rather muddled"."I certainly don't believe that was the case," she says, adding that his comments as reported were "rather muddled".
11.19am: The inquiry is now taking a short break.11.19am: The inquiry is now taking a short break.
11.20am: In her witness statement, Jowell responds to DCS Keith Surtees's claim to the inquiry in February that Jowell was one of several phone-hacking victims informed in 2006, but she declined to sign a statement to be used in a prosecution. She writes:11.20am: In her witness statement, Jowell responds to DCS Keith Surtees's claim to the inquiry in February that Jowell was one of several phone-hacking victims informed in 2006, but she declined to sign a statement to be used in a prosecution. She writes:
I have also written to the inquiry clarifying remarks made by lnsp Keith Suttees in his evidence, in which he suggested that I had been unwilling to assist with the prosecution when first informed of the hacking of my phone by the police in August 2006. This is untrue; in fact, as my then principaI private secretary's statement to the police confirms, my offers of further help were declined.I have also written to the inquiry clarifying remarks made by lnsp Keith Suttees in his evidence, in which he suggested that I had been unwilling to assist with the prosecution when first informed of the hacking of my phone by the police in August 2006. This is untrue; in fact, as my then principaI private secretary's statement to the police confirms, my offers of further help were declined.
11.21am: Jowell describes her phone-hacking claim as follows in her statement:11.21am: Jowell describes her phone-hacking claim as follows in her statement:
It is a matter of public record that my mobile phone was extensively hacked by News of the World during 2006. I took a civil action that was settled in December 2011. All details appear in the register of parliamentary interests. I continue to assist with the police enquiry, Operation Weeting, and have already given five witness statements. There is no evidence yet shown to me that the hacking of my phone was undertaken for commercial motives, but rather in pursuance of an obsessive interest in my troubled family circumstances at that time. In any event the Communications Act received royal assent in 2003, some time before it appears that my phone was hacked.It is a matter of public record that my mobile phone was extensively hacked by News of the World during 2006. I took a civil action that was settled in December 2011. All details appear in the register of parliamentary interests. I continue to assist with the police enquiry, Operation Weeting, and have already given five witness statements. There is no evidence yet shown to me that the hacking of my phone was undertaken for commercial motives, but rather in pursuance of an obsessive interest in my troubled family circumstances at that time. In any event the Communications Act received royal assent in 2003, some time before it appears that my phone was hacked.
11.31am: Jowell is asked about the information commissioner's Operation Motorman investigation into the illicit trade of private data by newspapers, magazines and private investigators.11.31am: Jowell is asked about the information commissioner's Operation Motorman investigation into the illicit trade of private data by newspapers, magazines and private investigators.
Jowell says she did not see What Price Privacy? or What Price Privacy Now? – the two reports published by the information commissioner about Operation Motorman – at the time they came out as they were handled by the Department for Constitutional Affairs.Jowell says she did not see What Price Privacy? or What Price Privacy Now? – the two reports published by the information commissioner about Operation Motorman – at the time they came out as they were handled by the Department for Constitutional Affairs.
She adds that the extent of private investigator use by newspaper groups was "alarming".She adds that the extent of private investigator use by newspaper groups was "alarming".
11.35am: What Price Privacy?was the key ICO report into the unlawful trading of confidential information published in 2006.11.35am: What Price Privacy?was the key ICO report into the unlawful trading of confidential information published in 2006.
11.36am: The Daily Mail was identified as the paper with the the most transactions followed by the Sunday People, the Daily Mirror and the News of the World. The Guardian's sister paper The Observer also appeared in the top 10.11.36am: The Daily Mail was identified as the paper with the the most transactions followed by the Sunday People, the Daily Mirror and the News of the World. The Guardian's sister paper The Observer also appeared in the top 10.
The nature of the transactions was not identified in this report and could have included general research and legal searches such as electoral roll checks or searches of births, deaths and marriages records.The nature of the transactions was not identified in this report and could have included general research and legal searches such as electoral roll checks or searches of births, deaths and marriages records.
11.37am: Barr suggests the reports should have been high on the radar of Jowell and the DCMS.11.37am: Barr suggests the reports should have been high on the radar of Jowell and the DCMS.
Jowell says that her office was not responsible for the Data Protection Act and that ICO's reports were acted on by two other secretaries of state.Jowell says that her office was not responsible for the Data Protection Act and that ICO's reports were acted on by two other secretaries of state.
She adds that her relationship with the Press Complaints Commission was an "ambiguous" one because it was semi-independent from the industry, and that she was not aware that the information commissioner sought to meet her about the reports.She adds that her relationship with the Press Complaints Commission was an "ambiguous" one because it was semi-independent from the industry, and that she was not aware that the information commissioner sought to meet her about the reports.
11.41am: Barr asks whether Jowell should have been more proactive in monitoring media behaviour.11.41am: Barr asks whether Jowell should have been more proactive in monitoring media behaviour.
Jowell says:Jowell says:
It wouldn't have been appropriate to have such capability because we have a very clear system of self regulation by the media. My department ... had in as much as any department, any relationship with the PCC it would have been my department. The PCC is independently funded and self-regulatory. Had my department at that time established a unit who were concerned with overseeing the behaviour of the press would immediately have been seen as a step towards self regulation.It wouldn't have been appropriate to have such capability because we have a very clear system of self regulation by the media. My department ... had in as much as any department, any relationship with the PCC it would have been my department. The PCC is independently funded and self-regulatory. Had my department at that time established a unit who were concerned with overseeing the behaviour of the press would immediately have been seen as a step towards self regulation.
Barr repeats his question.Barr repeats his question.
Jowell maintains that a more proactive DCMS would have been seen as her department taking steps against self regulation.Jowell maintains that a more proactive DCMS would have been seen as her department taking steps against self regulation.
"There's no halfway house in this. Either the media is regulated on statutory basis or it's self-regulated," says Jowell, before Leveson intervenes, saying he is not sure about that."There's no halfway house in this. Either the media is regulated on statutory basis or it's self-regulated," says Jowell, before Leveson intervenes, saying he is not sure about that.
Leveson asks if Jowell believed the PCC was a regulator.Leveson asks if Jowell believed the PCC was a regulator.
Jowell does not directly answer the question, but says:Jowell does not directly answer the question, but says:
As it was put to me, someone had to have lunch with them once or twice a year and as you were the secretary of state it was you. I had no official oversight role of the PCC.As it was put to me, someone had to have lunch with them once or twice a year and as you were the secretary of state it was you. I had no official oversight role of the PCC.
She adds that she believed it was regulating "by common consent" and that it was "overseeing" press behaviour.She adds that she believed it was regulating "by common consent" and that it was "overseeing" press behaviour.
11.45am: Jowell says she is "not an apologist" for the PCC.11.45am: Jowell says she is "not an apologist" for the PCC.
Leveson asks whether anyone sat down to ask whether PCC was doing "the job it said on the tin".Leveson asks whether anyone sat down to ask whether PCC was doing "the job it said on the tin".
Jowell replies:Jowell replies:
I would have to say, had anybody exercised that function colleagues in government would have expected that to be the secretary of state for culture, media and sport. It was not a core or even peripheral function that I or my predecessors or successors had to discharge.I would have to say, had anybody exercised that function colleagues in government would have expected that to be the secretary of state for culture, media and sport. It was not a core or even peripheral function that I or my predecessors or successors had to discharge.
Leveson asks if there was a "fundamental misunderstanding" about what the PCC did, from 2000 to 2009.Leveson asks if there was a "fundamental misunderstanding" about what the PCC did, from 2000 to 2009.
Jowell says:Jowell says:
I don't think there was a misunderstanding. Perhaps an uncritical willingness to continue with the regime of self-regulation without ever applying any objective test as to whether it was doing what it said on the tin.I don't think there was a misunderstanding. Perhaps an uncritical willingness to continue with the regime of self-regulation without ever applying any objective test as to whether it was doing what it said on the tin.
11.46am: The Guardian editor-in-chief, Alan Rusbridger, has just tweeted:11.46am: The Guardian editor-in-chief, Alan Rusbridger, has just tweeted:
#Leveson asks Jowell: was anyone overseeing PCC to see it was doing what it said on the tin? Jowell: not my job to do so#Leveson asks Jowell: was anyone overseeing PCC to see it was doing what it said on the tin? Jowell: not my job to do so
— alan rusbridger (@arusbridger) May 21, 2012— alan rusbridger (@arusbridger) May 21, 2012
11.47am: Asked whether there was any system to check up on the PCC's performance, Jowell says there wasn't.11.47am: Asked whether there was any system to check up on the PCC's performance, Jowell says there wasn't.
She says:She says:
There was probably an annual meeting with the chairman and perhaps the chief executive but it certainly wasn't in any way an audit or inspection or assessment of their performance.There was probably an annual meeting with the chairman and perhaps the chief executive but it certainly wasn't in any way an audit or inspection or assessment of their performance.
Jowell adds:Jowell adds:
Simply relying on the PCC to change practice across the media in a fundamental way in the absence of sanction is an impossible way of securing change.Simply relying on the PCC to change practice across the media in a fundamental way in the absence of sanction is an impossible way of securing change.
11.50am: Jowell is asked about Operation Caryatid, the original police investigation into phone hacking of the royal family in 2006.11.50am: Jowell is asked about Operation Caryatid, the original police investigation into phone hacking of the royal family in 2006.
The Metropolitan police told Jowell in 2006 that her voicemails had been intercepted in May that year.The Metropolitan police told Jowell in 2006 that her voicemails had been intercepted in May that year.
She adds:She adds:
I remember being told in May 2006 my phone had been hacked into, my voicemail had been intercepted on 28 or 29 occasions. I have subsequently discovered that it was much more intensive than that.I remember being told in May 2006 my phone had been hacked into, my voicemail had been intercepted on 28 or 29 occasions. I have subsequently discovered that it was much more intensive than that.
11.51am: In her witness statement, Jowell says that the News of the World targeted her phone for information on her troubled family circumstances at the time.11.51am: In her witness statement, Jowell says that the News of the World targeted her phone for information on her troubled family circumstances at the time.
Jowell says she has given five separate statements to the Met police on hacking.Jowell says she has given five separate statements to the Met police on hacking.
At the time she was secretary of state, Jowell says she had "quite a lot of informal liaison with Buckingham Palace".At the time she was secretary of state, Jowell says she had "quite a lot of informal liaison with Buckingham Palace".
11.57am: Barr turns to evidence from DCS Keith Surtees who told the inquiry in February that Jowell was one of several phone hacking victims informed in 2006 and that she declined to sign a statement to be used in a prosecution.11.57am: Barr turns to evidence from DCS Keith Surtees who told the inquiry in February that Jowell was one of several phone hacking victims informed in 2006 and that she declined to sign a statement to be used in a prosecution.
Jowell maintains that she told police she wanted to help their inquiry "but was assured at that stage there was nothing further I needed to do". Her private secretary followed up on the police call to Jowell with two subsequent messages expressing her willingness to help the inquiry.Jowell maintains that she told police she wanted to help their inquiry "but was assured at that stage there was nothing further I needed to do". Her private secretary followed up on the police call to Jowell with two subsequent messages expressing her willingness to help the inquiry.
There was always people outside my house. People always seemed to know where I was going. As has been revealed, the invasion of my privacy was total.There was always people outside my house. People always seemed to know where I was going. As has been revealed, the invasion of my privacy was total.
Jowell says she was told very clearly by police she did not need to provide witness evidence in the prosecution of the News of the World royal correspondent Clive Goodman and private investigator Glenn Mulcaire.Jowell says she was told very clearly by police she did not need to provide witness evidence in the prosecution of the News of the World royal correspondent Clive Goodman and private investigator Glenn Mulcaire.
She adds:She adds:
I was deeply shocked when I read Keith Surtees's evidence because it is untrue. Had I been asked at that time to provide a witness statement I would have provided it.I was deeply shocked when I read Keith Surtees's evidence because it is untrue. Had I been asked at that time to provide a witness statement I would have provided it.
12.01pm: Jowell says she did not suspect phone hacking at the News of the World went further than Goodman and Mulcaire.12.01pm: Jowell says she did not suspect phone hacking at the News of the World went further than Goodman and Mulcaire.
She adds:She adds:
I have made every effort I have can to establish there was no question of commercial espionage or interfere with my duties as secretary of state.I have made every effort I have can to establish there was no question of commercial espionage or interfere with my duties as secretary of state.
12.01pm: The Daily Telegraph has just tweeted:12.01pm: The Daily Telegraph has just tweeted:
BREAKING: Jeremy Hunt investigated over claims he failed to declare pre-coalition meetings with BSKYB and News International - more followsBREAKING: Jeremy Hunt investigated over claims he failed to declare pre-coalition meetings with BSKYB and News International - more follows
— Daily Telegraph News (@TelegraphNews) May 21, 2012— Daily Telegraph News (@TelegraphNews) May 21, 2012
12.04pm: Barr asks whether Jowell was concerned that a private investigator linked with the News of the World was listening to the voicemails of a cabinet minister.12.04pm: Barr asks whether Jowell was concerned that a private investigator linked with the News of the World was listening to the voicemails of a cabinet minister.
Jowell says as her voice cracks with emotion:Jowell says as her voice cracks with emotion:
At that time my family had been destroyed.At that time my family had been destroyed.
She goes on:She goes on:
It was therefore I did my job every day but life was very, very difficult and so I was perfectly satisfied with an explanation that related to what I knew was this obsessive curiosity about my private life and family who suffered greatly as a result of that.It was therefore I did my job every day but life was very, very difficult and so I was perfectly satisfied with an explanation that related to what I knew was this obsessive curiosity about my private life and family who suffered greatly as a result of that.
Did it occur to you if your voicemails had been listened to, might have listened to other senior politicians?Did it occur to you if your voicemails had been listened to, might have listened to other senior politicians?
No, says Jowell, because saw it as focused on her and her family, "it wasn't the wider curiosity about the conduct of government or development of policy".No, says Jowell, because saw it as focused on her and her family, "it wasn't the wider curiosity about the conduct of government or development of policy".
Jowell adds: "This media frenzy went on for weeks, months, years.... this was six years ago and only in the last 18 months I find myself not looking in cars to see if there is somebody waiting."Jowell adds: "This media frenzy went on for weeks, months, years.... this was six years ago and only in the last 18 months I find myself not looking in cars to see if there is somebody waiting."
12.07pm: Jowell says she did not raise the matter with the News of the World because she believed the perpetrators had been imprisoned.12.07pm: Jowell says she did not raise the matter with the News of the World because she believed the perpetrators had been imprisoned.
She adds:She adds:
The press harassment of me didn't stop, it carried on intermittently. What I wanted was to be in a position to do my job properly and that's what I devoted my energy to. And to look after my children.The press harassment of me didn't stop, it carried on intermittently. What I wanted was to be in a position to do my job properly and that's what I devoted my energy to. And to look after my children.
12.11pm: Jowell did not complain to the PCC about press intrusion and inaccuracies at the time.12.11pm: Jowell did not complain to the PCC about press intrusion and inaccuracies at the time.
Jay asks if she was ever conscious, listening to her phone messages, that they had already been opened.Jay asks if she was ever conscious, listening to her phone messages, that they had already been opened.
She says:She says:
I was never aware of that but my former principal private secretary ... did say that she remembered my sitting with her and my press secretary and saying, I think someone's listening to my phone. You feel as if you are going slightly mad. You adopt a permanent stance as if you are being followed as if someone watching or listening. I was never that systematic, I never thought that voicemail has been listened to and I hadn't heard it. I didn't know enough about mobile phone technology to realise that's what it meant.I was never aware of that but my former principal private secretary ... did say that she remembered my sitting with her and my press secretary and saying, I think someone's listening to my phone. You feel as if you are going slightly mad. You adopt a permanent stance as if you are being followed as if someone watching or listening. I was never that systematic, I never thought that voicemail has been listened to and I hadn't heard it. I didn't know enough about mobile phone technology to realise that's what it meant.
12.15pm: Jowell says she had "zero expectations" of fair treatment by the British media during her time in cabinet.12.15pm: Jowell says she had "zero expectations" of fair treatment by the British media during her time in cabinet.
But she does not concur with Blair's "feral beasts" description of the media. She praises the Guardian's Nick Davies, who exposed the phone hacking scandal, and other unnamed "exceptional" journalists.But she does not concur with Blair's "feral beasts" description of the media. She praises the Guardian's Nick Davies, who exposed the phone hacking scandal, and other unnamed "exceptional" journalists.
Leveson says it is "very disturbing" that anyone in society can have no expectation of fair treatment by the media.Leveson says it is "very disturbing" that anyone in society can have no expectation of fair treatment by the media.
Jowell agrees but adds: "I place alongside that my passionate defence of a free press".Jowell agrees but adds: "I place alongside that my passionate defence of a free press".
12.19pm: Jowell is asked whether there were newspaper stories that could have only come from phone hacking.12.19pm: Jowell is asked whether there were newspaper stories that could have only come from phone hacking.
She says there was. "It was as if my closest friends had simply rung up the newspapers and said this is what she is thinking."She says there was. "It was as if my closest friends had simply rung up the newspapers and said this is what she is thinking."
Jowell says stories also appeared in non-News International titles of which she could not understand the provenance.Jowell says stories also appeared in non-News International titles of which she could not understand the provenance.
Barr asks for the names of the newspapers. Jowell says: "Stuff appeared in the Daily Mail, the Evening Standard, the Sunday Times ... I couldn't understand."Barr asks for the names of the newspapers. Jowell says: "Stuff appeared in the Daily Mail, the Evening Standard, the Sunday Times ... I couldn't understand."
She says she would be very happy to send inquiry a further note on that.She says she would be very happy to send inquiry a further note on that.
12.22pm: Barr turns to media spin in the New Labour years.12.22pm: Barr turns to media spin in the New Labour years.
Jowell says: "'Spin' is a derogatory term. What we were determined to do from the time Tony Blair became leader of the Labour party in 1994 was to speak as far as possible with a consistent voice, to try to ensure the media understood what it was we were trying to achieve. There was more discipline about what we said, how we said it, who we said it to."Jowell says: "'Spin' is a derogatory term. What we were determined to do from the time Tony Blair became leader of the Labour party in 1994 was to speak as far as possible with a consistent voice, to try to ensure the media understood what it was we were trying to achieve. There was more discipline about what we said, how we said it, who we said it to."
She adds that the government had too high an expectation of how its story could be conveyed by newspapers.She adds that the government had too high an expectation of how its story could be conveyed by newspapers.
12.24pm: Barr asks if politicians got too "cosy" with the media.12.24pm: Barr asks if politicians got too "cosy" with the media.
Jowell says "cosy" and "close" are not terms she would use, defending the right of politicians to have lunch with journalists within "the rules of the game".Jowell says "cosy" and "close" are not terms she would use, defending the right of politicians to have lunch with journalists within "the rules of the game".
"It's perhaps more important that those rules are more transparent and explicit than they have been in the past," she adds."It's perhaps more important that those rules are more transparent and explicit than they have been in the past," she adds.
She believes private meetings should be recorded more formally, but "nothing substitutes for proper judgment of the individual minister".She believes private meetings should be recorded more formally, but "nothing substitutes for proper judgment of the individual minister".
12.33pm: Jowell says she has not noted every meeting with Alan Rusbridger, editor of the Guardian, because he is a close personal friend.12.33pm: Jowell says she has not noted every meeting with Alan Rusbridger, editor of the Guardian, because he is a close personal friend.
She also counts Matthew Freud, the PR supremo married to Elisabeth Murdoch, as a personal friend.She also counts Matthew Freud, the PR supremo married to Elisabeth Murdoch, as a personal friend.
As a minister, Jowell says, she wouldn't extend any favour to journalists with whom she was personal friends.As a minister, Jowell says, she wouldn't extend any favour to journalists with whom she was personal friends.
Jowell attended Elisabeth Murdoch's 40th birthday party; she says she had a lovely evening and saw many friends.Jowell attended Elisabeth Murdoch's 40th birthday party; she says she had a lovely evening and saw many friends.
12.38pm: Barr asks if politicians thought these parties were important events to attend.12.38pm: Barr asks if politicians thought these parties were important events to attend.
Jowell says government ministers are a "pretty serious lot" and lavish parties are "a great treat", but that politicians do not attend these occasions to get cosy with celebrities.Jowell says government ministers are a "pretty serious lot" and lavish parties are "a great treat", but that politicians do not attend these occasions to get cosy with celebrities.
These parties work on the basis that all parties know the rules, accept the rules and observe the rules in practice.These parties work on the basis that all parties know the rules, accept the rules and observe the rules in practice.
12.39pm: Andrew Sparrow, over on the Politics live blog, has more detail on the reports that Jeremy Hunt is being investigated by the parliamentary commissioner for standards:12.39pm: Andrew Sparrow, over on the Politics live blog, has more detail on the reports that Jeremy Hunt is being investigated by the parliamentary commissioner for standards:
According to Sky, John Lyon, the parliamentary commissioner for standards, is going to investigate claims that Jeremy Hunt, the culture secretary, did not properly declare donations from arts and media organisations (including one from BSkyB) from which he benefited.According to Sky, John Lyon, the parliamentary commissioner for standards, is going to investigate claims that Jeremy Hunt, the culture secretary, did not properly declare donations from arts and media organisations (including one from BSkyB) from which he benefited.
The complaint was submitted by the Labour MP Steve McCabe. Here's an extract from the letter he wrote to Lyon earlier this month.The complaint was submitted by the Labour MP Steve McCabe. Here's an extract from the letter he wrote to Lyon earlier this month.
Edward Vaizey recorded a number of sponsorships, worth a total of £27,418.31 from eight creative industry organisations, recording in the Register of Interests that each of these donations was for a "networking event to enable the Conservative frontbench team (Ed Vaizey and Jeremy Hunt) to meet sector leaders from the arts and creative industries".
Edward Vaizey recorded a number of sponsorships, worth a total of £27,418.31 from eight creative industry organisations, recording in the Register of Interests that each of these donations was for a "networking event to enable the Conservative frontbench team (Ed Vaizey and Jeremy Hunt) to meet sector leaders from the arts and creative industries".
Yet although Mr Vaizey says that Mr Hunt was a beneficiary of these donations, Mr Hunt did not declare any of them in his own entry in the Register of Members' Financial Interests.Yet although Mr Vaizey says that Mr Hunt was a beneficiary of these donations, Mr Hunt did not declare any of them in his own entry in the Register of Members' Financial Interests.
The full details of the complaint are here.The full details of the complaint are here.
As complaints to the parliamentary commissioner to standards go, this one is relatively mild. But the story has received the urgent "Breaking News" treatment because Hunt's cabinet career prospects are already looking precarious as a result of the revelations about his special adviser Adam Smith giving News Corporation special treatment when it was bidding for Sky. Smith and Fred Michel, the News Corp lobbyist to whom he passed inside information, are both giving evidence to the Leveson inquiry later this week.As complaints to the parliamentary commissioner to standards go, this one is relatively mild. But the story has received the urgent "Breaking News" treatment because Hunt's cabinet career prospects are already looking precarious as a result of the revelations about his special adviser Adam Smith giving News Corporation special treatment when it was bidding for Sky. Smith and Fred Michel, the News Corp lobbyist to whom he passed inside information, are both giving evidence to the Leveson inquiry later this week.
12.41pm: Jowell is asked how often she met James Murdoch.12.41pm: Jowell is asked how often she met James Murdoch.
"I probably saw James Murdoch maybe twice a year," she says."I probably saw James Murdoch maybe twice a year," she says.
Jowell met Murdoch once about the Communications Act, the BBC charter review and the digital switchover. Separately, she met him in relation to the Olympics and whether Sky would be interested in the east London press and broadcast centre.Jowell met Murdoch once about the Communications Act, the BBC charter review and the digital switchover. Separately, she met him in relation to the Olympics and whether Sky would be interested in the east London press and broadcast centre.
12.48pm: The counsel for the Metropolitan police is cross-examining Jowell.12.48pm: The counsel for the Metropolitan police is cross-examining Jowell.
Jowell says she is not sure whether she spoke to the same police officer on two occasions.Jowell says she is not sure whether she spoke to the same police officer on two occasions.
"My recollection was the purpose of the conversation was to inform me my voice had been hacked," she adds, denying that she was told the police were looking for representatives from different public groups."My recollection was the purpose of the conversation was to inform me my voice had been hacked," she adds, denying that she was told the police were looking for representatives from different public groups.
She adds:She adds:
I was shocked as I have told the inquiry and I was quite upset by the information. But I also know, because this is in my character, I asked what I could do to help and what further steps I needed to take. I reported the conversation immediately to the friends I was with ... who confirmed my willingness to help.I was shocked as I have told the inquiry and I was quite upset by the information. But I also know, because this is in my character, I asked what I could do to help and what further steps I needed to take. I reported the conversation immediately to the friends I was with ... who confirmed my willingness to help.
12.49pm: Jowell has now completed her evidence.12.49pm: Jowell has now completed her evidence.
12.48pm: Lord Mandelson has taken the witness stand.12.48pm: Lord Mandelson has taken the witness stand.
Robert Jay QC, counsel to the inquiry, is leading the questioning.Robert Jay QC, counsel to the inquiry, is leading the questioning.
12.51pm: Lord Justice Leveson greets Mandelson with the words, along with his traditional vote of thanks: "I also am fearful of a runaway train hurtling down the track towards me."12.51pm: Lord Justice Leveson greets Mandelson with the words, along with his traditional vote of thanks: "I also am fearful of a runaway train hurtling down the track towards me."
Mandelson replies: "To arrive at a point where you can make recommendations which will command the confidence of the public and the press can live with will be difficult. I don't think there's been a more important time to try to do it."Mandelson replies: "To arrive at a point where you can make recommendations which will command the confidence of the public and the press can live with will be difficult. I don't think there's been a more important time to try to do it."
12.52pm: Mandelson is asked about his relationships with politicians.12.52pm: Mandelson is asked about his relationships with politicians.
In his written statement, he places journalists in two categories: objective and subjective.In his written statement, he places journalists in two categories: objective and subjective.
Mandelson believes relations between government ministers and journalists are, in essence, a "trade". Journalists want favourable access to news and ministers want good coverage of policies, he says.Mandelson believes relations between government ministers and journalists are, in essence, a "trade". Journalists want favourable access to news and ministers want good coverage of policies, he says.
12.54pm: Mandelson recalls a well-worn phrase of his: "You can be friends with journalists but journalists are never your friends".12.54pm: Mandelson recalls a well-worn phrase of his: "You can be friends with journalists but journalists are never your friends".
He adds:He adds:
You can be friendly with journalists but journalists are never your friends. I think journalists would probably say the same about politicians. I could recall journalists who became friends but that was rare. The problem arises when journalists who expect exclusivity are disappointed, and politicians are disappointed when they expect favourable treatment. That's why I talk about the boundaries and when you overstep them.You can be friendly with journalists but journalists are never your friends. I think journalists would probably say the same about politicians. I could recall journalists who became friends but that was rare. The problem arises when journalists who expect exclusivity are disappointed, and politicians are disappointed when they expect favourable treatment. That's why I talk about the boundaries and when you overstep them.
1.01pm: The relationship between journalists and politicians "has broken down, largely", says Mandelson, referring to being appointed director of communications at the Labour party in 1985 to the present day.1.01pm: The relationship between journalists and politicians "has broken down, largely", says Mandelson, referring to being appointed director of communications at the Labour party in 1985 to the present day.
"It has been a bit of a rollercoaster ride. Were times when it was calmer and more trusting, other periods when less trust and respect," he says."It has been a bit of a rollercoaster ride. Were times when it was calmer and more trusting, other periods when less trust and respect," he says.
Tony Blair "rescued and made good" Labour's relations with the press, he adds, but says this was on a rollercoaster driven by "instant demands" and increased scepticism from the press.Tony Blair "rescued and made good" Labour's relations with the press, he adds, but says this was on a rollercoaster driven by "instant demands" and increased scepticism from the press.
"Their trust in what they're being told is the truth has deteriorated," Mandelson says."Their trust in what they're being told is the truth has deteriorated," Mandelson says.
1.03pm: The public lose out when the relationship between the press and politicians takes a nosedive, Mandelson says.1.03pm: The public lose out when the relationship between the press and politicians takes a nosedive, Mandelson says.
1.03pm: The inquiry has broken for lunch and will resume at 2pm.1.03pm: The inquiry has broken for lunch and will resume at 2pm.
1.12pm: Here is a lunchtime summary of this morning's evidence:1.12pm: Here is a lunchtime summary of this morning's evidence:
• Tessa Jowell said her phone was extensively hacked by the News of the World for stories about her family in 2006.• Tessa Jowell said her phone was extensively hacked by the News of the World for stories about her family in 2006.
• "The invasion of my privacy was total," she added.• "The invasion of my privacy was total," she added.
• She rejected the claim that she declined to give a statement to police over the hacking, adding that she would have provided one if she had been asked.• She rejected the claim that she declined to give a statement to police over the hacking, adding that she would have provided one if she had been asked.
• Jowell admitted the "uncritical willingness" of the government over the role of the Press Complaints Commission.• Jowell admitted the "uncritical willingness" of the government over the role of the Press Complaints Commission.
• She told the inquiry she could not understand the source of some stories in the Daily Mail, Evening Standard and Sunday Times.• She told the inquiry she could not understand the source of some stories in the Daily Mail, Evening Standard and Sunday Times.
• Tony Blair wanted greater deregulation of media as part of Communications Act.• Tony Blair wanted greater deregulation of media as part of Communications Act.
• The relationship between government and press has 'broken down', said Lord Mandelson.• The relationship between government and press has 'broken down', said Lord Mandelson.
1.17pm: The Guardian's Lisa O'Carroll has just tweeted:1.17pm: The Guardian's Lisa O'Carroll has just tweeted:
Mandelson's first 15 minutes blaming media fits in nicely with Oborne's theory that labour created narrative of a hostile press #levesonMandelson's first 15 minutes blaming media fits in nicely with Oborne's theory that labour created narrative of a hostile press #leveson
— lisa o'carroll (@lisaocarroll) May 21, 2012— lisa o'carroll (@lisaocarroll) May 21, 2012
2.05pm: The inquiry has resumed.2.05pm: The inquiry has resumed.
Mandelson is asked to return to relationships between politicians and the press. He says these can become "debasing" if they get out of hand.Mandelson is asked to return to relationships between politicians and the press. He says these can become "debasing" if they get out of hand.
2.07pm: In his witness statement, Mandelson says that conversations with cabinet ministers or the prime minister that might indirectly affect proprietors' interests should be held in appointed meetings.2.07pm: In his witness statement, Mandelson says that conversations with cabinet ministers or the prime minister that might indirectly affect proprietors' interests should be held in appointed meetings.
He explains: "These conversations are best done with an official present, a civil servant not a special adviser ... That is normal. Either an official present or if it's a television conversation an official private secretary listening in."He explains: "These conversations are best done with an official present, a civil servant not a special adviser ... That is normal. Either an official present or if it's a television conversation an official private secretary listening in."
2.10pm: Mandelson's witness statement has now been published on the Leveson inquiry website.2.10pm: Mandelson's witness statement has now been published on the Leveson inquiry website.
2.15pm: In his witness statement, Mandelson says that arguably Blair, Brown and Murdoch "became closer than was wise in view of the adverse inference drawn from the number of meetings and contacts they had". However, he adds that the same could be said of David Cameron.2.15pm: In his witness statement, Mandelson says that arguably Blair, Brown and Murdoch "became closer than was wise in view of the adverse inference drawn from the number of meetings and contacts they had". However, he adds that the same could be said of David Cameron.
I reject the view that, under either Mr Blair or Mr Brown, some sort of Faustian pact was forged between the government and Rupert Murdoch involving commercial concessions to him in return for support from his newspapers. As I will explain in answer to a later question, I think the contrary is true.I reject the view that, under either Mr Blair or Mr Brown, some sort of Faustian pact was forged between the government and Rupert Murdoch involving commercial concessions to him in return for support from his newspapers. As I will explain in answer to a later question, I think the contrary is true.
Later in his statement, he underlines Blair's support for the BBC, adding:Later in his statement, he underlines Blair's support for the BBC, adding:
I would only make the observation that, in government, Mr Blair championed Mr Murdoch's arch foe, the BBC, much more than he delivered to News Corporation.I would only make the observation that, in government, Mr Blair championed Mr Murdoch's arch foe, the BBC, much more than he delivered to News Corporation.
2.19pm: Mandelson is asked about his views on the "loss of deference in society" in which he says people are not prepared to listen to others' point of view, to give them respect.2.19pm: Mandelson is asked about his views on the "loss of deference in society" in which he says people are not prepared to listen to others' point of view, to give them respect.
"To give them the opportunity to have their day in court," says Mandelson, rather than "throwing them out of the highest window, ruining their reputation before anyone has had the chance to establish the facts. I don't think it's unfair or reasonable to expect the media to operate on that basis"."To give them the opportunity to have their day in court," says Mandelson, rather than "throwing them out of the highest window, ruining their reputation before anyone has had the chance to establish the facts. I don't think it's unfair or reasonable to expect the media to operate on that basis".
It doesn't mean, he says, that politicians must be assumed to be "untouchable".It doesn't mean, he says, that politicians must be assumed to be "untouchable".
The media has to be challenging but as others have said every journalist it seems wants to turn themselves into a Woodward or a Bernstein. They have to accept that sometimes people haven't done wrong ... the facts of the matter are different. It's about standards of journalism.The media has to be challenging but as others have said every journalist it seems wants to turn themselves into a Woodward or a Bernstein. They have to accept that sometimes people haven't done wrong ... the facts of the matter are different. It's about standards of journalism.
He adds:He adds:
I have a sense during the course of my adult life, sensationalism, going for what is salacious, particularly in relation to household names, or those that are not and are rapidly turned into them ... a newspaper's desire to create the maximum impact, it's almost the default place for newspapers to go if they are in fear of losing readers.I have a sense during the course of my adult life, sensationalism, going for what is salacious, particularly in relation to household names, or those that are not and are rapidly turned into them ... a newspaper's desire to create the maximum impact, it's almost the default place for newspapers to go if they are in fear of losing readers.
It could be described as the 'tabloidisation' of the media in which there are barely any broadsheets left, figuratively or literally.It could be described as the 'tabloidisation' of the media in which there are barely any broadsheets left, figuratively or literally.
2.20pm: Jay says that Mandelson in his written evidence describes the time of the 1992 general election as "horrible and bloody".2.20pm: Jay says that Mandelson in his written evidence describes the time of the 1992 general election as "horrible and bloody".
Asked to expand, he says:Asked to expand, he says:
There has been a longstanding trend in the press to mix reporting with comment. What took this merging of comment and reporting to a higher level was the more lethal cocktail which I believed the Labour party was exposed to, of aggression and inaccuracy. I think the Labour party and Mr Kinnock in particular were victims of that. The press took their gloves off, there was a lack of scruple or restraint.There has been a longstanding trend in the press to mix reporting with comment. What took this merging of comment and reporting to a higher level was the more lethal cocktail which I believed the Labour party was exposed to, of aggression and inaccuracy. I think the Labour party and Mr Kinnock in particular were victims of that. The press took their gloves off, there was a lack of scruple or restraint.
2.24pm: Mandelson is asked whether he cultivated journalists to put his policies across in the most favourable light.2.24pm: Mandelson is asked whether he cultivated journalists to put his policies across in the most favourable light.
"Yes, of course you identified opportunities and people and events," he says, adding: "It was my job to put the Labour party in a better light and receive favourable reporting.""Yes, of course you identified opportunities and people and events," he says, adding: "It was my job to put the Labour party in a better light and receive favourable reporting."
Did this cultivation ever become a collusive relationship?Did this cultivation ever become a collusive relationship?
I don't know. I remember journalists in newspapers and broadcast media who felt the Labour party hadn't been treated fairly and thought this should change. I remember journalists who were more sympathetic to the Labour cause who ... wanted to help us. Not sure I could count them on the fingers of one hand, or possibly two. I wouldn't describe that as collusion however.I don't know. I remember journalists in newspapers and broadcast media who felt the Labour party hadn't been treated fairly and thought this should change. I remember journalists who were more sympathetic to the Labour cause who ... wanted to help us. Not sure I could count them on the fingers of one hand, or possibly two. I wouldn't describe that as collusion however.
2.27pm: The Press Complaints Commission was a system of "non-regulation", Mandelson says, it was not self regulation or straightforward regulation.2.27pm: The Press Complaints Commission was a system of "non-regulation", Mandelson says, it was not self regulation or straightforward regulation.
Asked about the separation of fact and comment required by the PCC code, Mandelson says: "In the case of most newspapers that barely existed."Asked about the separation of fact and comment required by the PCC code, Mandelson says: "In the case of most newspapers that barely existed."
He adds that journalists would look at him "with a mix of pity and dismay" if he had raised the PCC code with them.He adds that journalists would look at him "with a mix of pity and dismay" if he had raised the PCC code with them.
2.27pm: Mandelson says in his witness statement that he and members of his family were targeted by the private investigator Jonathan Rees.2.27pm: Mandelson says in his witness statement that he and members of his family were targeted by the private investigator Jonathan Rees.
The extract from his witness statement says:The extract from his witness statement says:
I am most familiar with the case relating to the work of Southern Investigations and Jonathan Rees. Last year I was made aware of work undertaken by Southern Investigations that were documented in a series of invoices that referred to invasions into the privacy of myself and my family. The exact nature of these actions were unclear from the paperwork that was reviewed, but I understood it to cover accessing (or trying to access) my bank account along with making inquiries about other member of my family, including I believe surveillance of my elderly mother. I understand this case was being pursued by the police officers working on the Operation Motorman inquiry. I understand that incidences of the type that I was subject to are not uncommon, as the information commissioner outlined in the report which he published in 2006.I am most familiar with the case relating to the work of Southern Investigations and Jonathan Rees. Last year I was made aware of work undertaken by Southern Investigations that were documented in a series of invoices that referred to invasions into the privacy of myself and my family. The exact nature of these actions were unclear from the paperwork that was reviewed, but I understood it to cover accessing (or trying to access) my bank account along with making inquiries about other member of my family, including I believe surveillance of my elderly mother. I understand this case was being pursued by the police officers working on the Operation Motorman inquiry. I understand that incidences of the type that I was subject to are not uncommon, as the information commissioner outlined in the report which he published in 2006.
2.31pm: Mandelson says that bad feeling between Labour and News International was brewing from the 1980s and "reached a fresh depth" in 1992.2.31pm: Mandelson says that bad feeling between Labour and News International was brewing from the 1980s and "reached a fresh depth" in 1992.
He adds:He adds:
What we all wanted to do in the 1990s should we ever have any hope of winning a general election again we didn't want to make permanent enemies of News International. At different levels in different ways different dialogues were opened – editors, journalists, executives, including the proprietor. I don't think that's unreasonable. I was hopeful if we started turning things round and looked like winners he might be more attracted to supporting the Labour party. I also thought ... he might have needed some reassurance from the Labour party about how genuine the changes were we had undergone.What we all wanted to do in the 1990s should we ever have any hope of winning a general election again we didn't want to make permanent enemies of News International. At different levels in different ways different dialogues were opened – editors, journalists, executives, including the proprietor. I don't think that's unreasonable. I was hopeful if we started turning things round and looked like winners he might be more attracted to supporting the Labour party. I also thought ... he might have needed some reassurance from the Labour party about how genuine the changes were we had undergone.
2.37pm: Mandelson says that New Labour did not make a deal with Rupert Murdoch for winning his support ahead of the 1997 election.2.37pm: Mandelson says that New Labour did not make a deal with Rupert Murdoch for winning his support ahead of the 1997 election.
He adds: "It did not mean we were prepared to make concessions to his commercial interests ... to draw him over the line in supporting us. I don't think such a conversation would have taken place."He adds: "It did not mean we were prepared to make concessions to his commercial interests ... to draw him over the line in supporting us. I don't think such a conversation would have taken place."
Jay asks if Mandelson was uncomfortable wooing the Murdoch titles.Jay asks if Mandelson was uncomfortable wooing the Murdoch titles.
He says: "I would either have kept it to myself or given one or two people in private the benefit of my views. I was part of the reassurance/neutralisation strategy, of course I wasn't comfortable in policy areas like Europe for example, I was a notorious pro-European and I felt the concessions we were making in that policy area in rhetoric or tone was perhaps going too far."He says: "I would either have kept it to myself or given one or two people in private the benefit of my views. I was part of the reassurance/neutralisation strategy, of course I wasn't comfortable in policy areas like Europe for example, I was a notorious pro-European and I felt the concessions we were making in that policy area in rhetoric or tone was perhaps going too far."
2.56pm: Mandelson is asked about Rupert Murdoch's economic guru, Irwin Steltzer.2.56pm: Mandelson is asked about Rupert Murdoch's economic guru, Irwin Steltzer.
"I think he had quite a high regard for Mr Steltzer as an economist, an analyser of global events," he says, adding that Steltzer was regarded as a "reasonable litmus paper test' for what Murdoch was thinking – but not as good as Les Hinton or Rebekah Brooks."I think he had quite a high regard for Mr Steltzer as an economist, an analyser of global events," he says, adding that Steltzer was regarded as a "reasonable litmus paper test' for what Murdoch was thinking – but not as good as Les Hinton or Rebekah Brooks.
2.56pm: Mandelson gives an example of what happened when you went against the Sun's views on Europe.2.56pm: Mandelson gives an example of what happened when you went against the Sun's views on Europe.
"In the case of the single currency, Mr Blair insisted on going ahead with publishing a national changeover plan. Our policy was prepare and decide, and in pursuit of that policy Mr Blair decided to publish a putative national changeover plan from the pound to the euro should at any stage Britain going in was right in the national interest. The Sun's front page featured a large photograph of Mr Blair with the headline 'is this the most dangerous man in Britain?' You got a taste of what would happen if you want against their wishes and views on Europe.""In the case of the single currency, Mr Blair insisted on going ahead with publishing a national changeover plan. Our policy was prepare and decide, and in pursuit of that policy Mr Blair decided to publish a putative national changeover plan from the pound to the euro should at any stage Britain going in was right in the national interest. The Sun's front page featured a large photograph of Mr Blair with the headline 'is this the most dangerous man in Britain?' You got a taste of what would happen if you want against their wishes and views on Europe."
He adds that the Daily Express and Daily Mail were similar to the Sun with their attitudes towards Europe.He adds that the Daily Express and Daily Mail were similar to the Sun with their attitudes towards Europe.
3.00pm: Mandelson is asked about Tony Blair's "feral beasts" speech on the press.3.00pm: Mandelson is asked about Tony Blair's "feral beasts" speech on the press.
Blair believed dealing with the media is like "wrestling a crocodile", adding: "He was very, very frustrated. He felt I think sort of mixed, conflicted, and very frustrated. He felt the influence of the press, the country, our society was baleful, he believed the press made people feel cynical and negative about politics and politicians and thought this was undermining of our democracy. Like wrestling with a crocodile and if you weren't careful it would snap your head off so perhaps keep away from it."Blair believed dealing with the media is like "wrestling a crocodile", adding: "He was very, very frustrated. He felt I think sort of mixed, conflicted, and very frustrated. He felt the influence of the press, the country, our society was baleful, he believed the press made people feel cynical and negative about politics and politicians and thought this was undermining of our democracy. Like wrestling with a crocodile and if you weren't careful it would snap your head off so perhaps keep away from it."
He adds:He adds:
A prime minister is going to think long and hard before he starts taking on the press in this country. It would be politically suicidal and have good reason to wonder whether that would be the case.A prime minister is going to think long and hard before he starts taking on the press in this country. It would be politically suicidal and have good reason to wonder whether that would be the case.
3.01pm: The BBC's Ross Hawkins has just tweeted:3.01pm: The BBC's Ross Hawkins has just tweeted:
Mandelson: Press to all intents and purposes regarded themselves as above the law #levesonMandelson: Press to all intents and purposes regarded themselves as above the law #leveson
— Ross Hawkins (@rosschawkins) May 21, 2012— Ross Hawkins (@rosschawkins) May 21, 2012
3.04pm: The discussion turns to the Leveson inquiry itself.3.04pm: The discussion turns to the Leveson inquiry itself.
"No one would want to single themselves out as taking on the press," says Mandelson. "You would be putting the government of the day in an incredibly awkward position.""No one would want to single themselves out as taking on the press," says Mandelson. "You would be putting the government of the day in an incredibly awkward position."
Leveson: "So they give it to a judge instead."Leveson: "So they give it to a judge instead."
Mandelson: "In not so many words, yes."Mandelson: "In not so many words, yes."
3.11pm: Mandelson is asked about the private investigator Jonathan Rees.3.11pm: Mandelson is asked about the private investigator Jonathan Rees.
Mandelson says police have told him the Daily Mirror commissioned Rees to obtain information about him while Piers Morgan was editor. The bank details of Mandelson and his family were targeted, he says.Mandelson says police have told him the Daily Mirror commissioned Rees to obtain information about him while Piers Morgan was editor. The bank details of Mandelson and his family were targeted, he says.
Mandelson says police "were not clear what had taken place but had seen the invoices for the work that was commissioned by these people".Mandelson says police "were not clear what had taken place but had seen the invoices for the work that was commissioned by these people".
3.16pm: Mandelson turns to a letter sent to him by Scotland Yard's then assistant commissioner John Yates. This letter came after Mandelson was quoted in a Guardian article criticising police leaks during the cash-for-peerages scandal.3.16pm: Mandelson turns to a letter sent to him by Scotland Yard's then assistant commissioner John Yates. This letter came after Mandelson was quoted in a Guardian article criticising police leaks during the cash-for-peerages scandal.
Mandelson claims that "all of those close to the investigation were absolutely convinced that Yates was briefing journalists", adding that Yates wanted a bigger job at Scotland Yard.Mandelson claims that "all of those close to the investigation were absolutely convinced that Yates was briefing journalists", adding that Yates wanted a bigger job at Scotland Yard.
He indicates he would have sued Yates over the "bullying" letter if he was not as busy.He indicates he would have sued Yates over the "bullying" letter if he was not as busy.
3.17pm: Tim Shipman, deputy political editor of the Daily Mail, tweets:3.17pm: Tim Shipman, deputy political editor of the Daily Mail, tweets:
Clapping and cheering in Nato press room as word reaches us that Mandy has never 'leaked anything to the media'Clapping and cheering in Nato press room as word reaches us that Mandy has never 'leaked anything to the media'
— Tim Shipman (Mail) (@ShippersUnbound) May 21, 2012— Tim Shipman (Mail) (@ShippersUnbound) May 21, 2012
3.21pm: Mandelson says Murdoch "was not in love with the BBC" and that the Labour government was "basically pro-BBC and proud of it".3.21pm: Mandelson says Murdoch "was not in love with the BBC" and that the Labour government was "basically pro-BBC and proud of it".
He believes the Murdochs were able to convince the Conservatives while in opposition of their concerns over the BBC and Ofcom.He believes the Murdochs were able to convince the Conservatives while in opposition of their concerns over the BBC and Ofcom.
3.26pm: Mandelson is asked Lord Rothermere's view of Paul Dacre, editor of the Daily Mail.3.26pm: Mandelson is asked Lord Rothermere's view of Paul Dacre, editor of the Daily Mail.
He says:He says:
He [Rothermere] regarded Mr Dacre as being in charge. He thought there were very definite limits on the proprietor's scope of action. Mr Dacre was in charge and the Mail, Mail on Sunday and online were forged in his image, not Lord Rothermere's. He encouraged us to try and have contact with Mr Dacre to take more hostile edges off his attitudes to us, to basically try to set out to reassure him.He [Rothermere] regarded Mr Dacre as being in charge. He thought there were very definite limits on the proprietor's scope of action. Mr Dacre was in charge and the Mail, Mail on Sunday and online were forged in his image, not Lord Rothermere's. He encouraged us to try and have contact with Mr Dacre to take more hostile edges off his attitudes to us, to basically try to set out to reassure him.
With Mr Dacre I always felt, basically, he was very firmly on the right of centre and unlikely to support the Labour party and he thought a Labour government was an interruption to the natural order of things. And in the case of new Labour we had gained support and office through artificeWith Mr Dacre I always felt, basically, he was very firmly on the right of centre and unlikely to support the Labour party and he thought a Labour government was an interruption to the natural order of things. And in the case of new Labour we had gained support and office through artifice
..
Mandelson was under no illusions that Dacre was not a likely Labour supporter.Mandelson was under no illusions that Dacre was not a likely Labour supporter.
He says: "He was not president of my fan club. Over the last 10 years I met Paul Dacre and on two occasions I had dinner with him. He liked a good argument but you were not going to convert him to your cause. It was to take the edges of his anger."He says: "He was not president of my fan club. Over the last 10 years I met Paul Dacre and on two occasions I had dinner with him. He liked a good argument but you were not going to convert him to your cause. It was to take the edges of his anger."
3.27pm: The inquiry is taking a short break.3.27pm: The inquiry is taking a short break.
3.29pm: Here is a brief summary of Lord Mandelson's evidence so far:3.29pm: Here is a brief summary of Lord Mandelson's evidence so far:
• There was "no Faustian deal" between Rupert Murdoch and Labour government, Lord Mandelson said• There was "no Faustian deal" between Rupert Murdoch and Labour government, Lord Mandelson said
• Taking on the press is "politically suicidal" for any prime minister• Taking on the press is "politically suicidal" for any prime minister
• Piers Morgan's Daily Mirror commissioner private investigator Jonathan Rees to target Mandelson, he told inquiry• Piers Morgan's Daily Mirror commissioner private investigator Jonathan Rees to target Mandelson, he told inquiry
• He claims he has never leaked anything to the press• He claims he has never leaked anything to the press
3.35pm: The background to those Lord Mandelson allegations about Piers Morgan's Daily Mirror is here.3.35pm: The background to those Lord Mandelson allegations about Piers Morgan's Daily Mirror is here.
He first raised the claims in June last year. Trinity Mirror said at the time that its journalists had last used Jonathan Rees's firm Southern Investigations in 1999.He first raised the claims in June last year. Trinity Mirror said at the time that its journalists had last used Jonathan Rees's firm Southern Investigations in 1999.
3.40pm: The inquiry has resumed.3.40pm: The inquiry has resumed.
Mandelson says he took an interest in media policy after he was elected as an MP in 1992. He was known as a champion of the BBC and public sector broadcasting, and advocated changes of media regulation in the UK.Mandelson says he took an interest in media policy after he was elected as an MP in 1992. He was known as a champion of the BBC and public sector broadcasting, and advocated changes of media regulation in the UK.
Mandelson says he believed that "the best way to beat Murdoch was to allow alternative media groups to grow".Mandelson says he believed that "the best way to beat Murdoch was to allow alternative media groups to grow".
Rebekah Brooks and Les Hinton were "especially assiduous" in courting senior Labour figures, he says.Rebekah Brooks and Les Hinton were "especially assiduous" in courting senior Labour figures, he says.
On Hinton, Mandelson says: "He was not at all like Rebekah, he wasn't a journalist/editor/player in the way Rebekah was. He didn't seem to enjoy the fun of the chase like Rebekah did. But he put himself about in Labour party circles and I assume Conservative and Lib Dem as well."On Hinton, Mandelson says: "He was not at all like Rebekah, he wasn't a journalist/editor/player in the way Rebekah was. He didn't seem to enjoy the fun of the chase like Rebekah did. But he put himself about in Labour party circles and I assume Conservative and Lib Dem as well."
3.43pm: Mandelson describes Elisabeth Murdoch as a social friend, adding: "I hope still now."3.43pm: Mandelson describes Elisabeth Murdoch as a social friend, adding: "I hope still now."
Asked about Matthew Freud, the PR supremo and Elisabeth's husband, Mandelson says he gave "reasonable parties".Asked about Matthew Freud, the PR supremo and Elisabeth's husband, Mandelson says he gave "reasonable parties".
He describes Freud as a "foul-weather friend" because you would call him if you needed help. He was a "connector" rather than a "conduit", Mandelson says.He describes Freud as a "foul-weather friend" because you would call him if you needed help. He was a "connector" rather than a "conduit", Mandelson says.
3.50pm: It is partly true that Rebekah Brooks's editorial view represented her own and her colleagues' prejudices, Mandelson says.3.50pm: It is partly true that Rebekah Brooks's editorial view represented her own and her colleagues' prejudices, Mandelson says.
Sun readers' views "tend to be sharpened or excited" by what is written in the paper.Sun readers' views "tend to be sharpened or excited" by what is written in the paper.
Mandelson is asked to describe Brooks. He says the former Sun and News of the World editor had "persistence, charm, manipulative skills".Mandelson is asked to describe Brooks. He says the former Sun and News of the World editor had "persistence, charm, manipulative skills".
He says she would also get on the phone to him to complain about Tom Watson and that members of culture, media and sport select committee were "hounding them and couldn't they be pulled off".He says she would also get on the phone to him to complain about Tom Watson and that members of culture, media and sport select committee were "hounding them and couldn't they be pulled off".
"She was very free with her views," he adds, agreeing that Brooks had close access to the prime minister's upper echelons."She was very free with her views," he adds, agreeing that Brooks had close access to the prime minister's upper echelons.
3.51pm: The support of the Murdoch titles was "very important" between 2005 and 2007, says Mandelson, because the government had been weakened by the Iraq war.3.51pm: The support of the Murdoch titles was "very important" between 2005 and 2007, says Mandelson, because the government had been weakened by the Iraq war.
3.55pm: Mandelson is asked about Gordon Brown.3.55pm: Mandelson is asked about Gordon Brown.
"To much of our astonishment, he was incredibly close to Mr Dacre," Mandelson says, laughing. "Gordon and Paul Dacre had a great friendship"."To much of our astonishment, he was incredibly close to Mr Dacre," Mandelson says, laughing. "Gordon and Paul Dacre had a great friendship".
Mandelson says he can recall Dacre describing the virtues of Brown compared to Blair "in fairly graphic terms".Mandelson says he can recall Dacre describing the virtues of Brown compared to Blair "in fairly graphic terms".
The Daily Mail and Mail on Sunday would lay into the government left, right and centre but "there was an element of laying off Gordon," he says.The Daily Mail and Mail on Sunday would lay into the government left, right and centre but "there was an element of laying off Gordon," he says.
He believes Dacre "accentuated" Brown's cooling on Europe. But Ed Balls was another factor, he says. For Brown it would have "lifted himself in sights of those newspapers who were hostile to Europe".He believes Dacre "accentuated" Brown's cooling on Europe. But Ed Balls was another factor, he says. For Brown it would have "lifted himself in sights of those newspapers who were hostile to Europe".
3.59pm: The Guardian editor-in-chief, Alan Rusbridger, has just tweeted:3.59pm: The Guardian editor-in-chief, Alan Rusbridger, has just tweeted:
Mandelson on Rebekah: "persistance, charm, manipulative skills.... Some might think that's a bit rich from me"#LevesonMandelson on Rebekah: "persistance, charm, manipulative skills.... Some might think that's a bit rich from me"#Leveson
— alan rusbridger (@arusbridger) May 21, 2012— alan rusbridger (@arusbridger) May 21, 2012
4.00pm: Mandelson says Brooks did not rate Brown as chancellor.4.00pm: Mandelson says Brooks did not rate Brown as chancellor.
"She wouldn't have allowed mere dislike to get in the way of what she needed to do," he adds."She wouldn't have allowed mere dislike to get in the way of what she needed to do," he adds.
4.01pm: The House of Commons is to debate the conclusions of the culture, media and sport select committee report on phone hacking tomorrow afternoon, parliament has announced.4.01pm: The House of Commons is to debate the conclusions of the culture, media and sport select committee report on phone hacking tomorrow afternoon, parliament has announced.
John Whittingdale, chairman of the committee, has tabled a motion asking the Commons to refer the report's conclusions – specifically, its findings about former News International executives Colin Myler, Les Hinton and Tom Crone – to the committee on standards and privileges.John Whittingdale, chairman of the committee, has tabled a motion asking the Commons to refer the report's conclusions – specifically, its findings about former News International executives Colin Myler, Les Hinton and Tom Crone – to the committee on standards and privileges.
The three executives could be called to apologise before parliament if the standards and privileges committee believes they have misled MPs about phone hacking.The three executives could be called to apologise before parliament if the standards and privileges committee believes they have misled MPs about phone hacking.
4.05pm: Mandelson on the Sun's switch from Labour to the Conservatives:4.05pm: Mandelson on the Sun's switch from Labour to the Conservatives:
What irritated me was the way the Sun was using the war in Afghanistan ... as a way of undermining public confidence in Mr Brown and the government in general. There was a regular drip feed of poisonous reporting and comment. It greatly irritated me. Mr Brown was focused and he did care and he was very concerned about shortages in body armour or helicopters. I thought this was an unfair weapon to use against him, was being used to ramp up and pave the way for their abandoning of support for Labour – using him and the Afghan war as a pretext for doing so.What irritated me was the way the Sun was using the war in Afghanistan ... as a way of undermining public confidence in Mr Brown and the government in general. There was a regular drip feed of poisonous reporting and comment. It greatly irritated me. Mr Brown was focused and he did care and he was very concerned about shortages in body armour or helicopters. I thought this was an unfair weapon to use against him, was being used to ramp up and pave the way for their abandoning of support for Labour – using him and the Afghan war as a pretext for doing so.
4.09pm: And on the timing of the switch, during the Labour party conference.4.09pm: And on the timing of the switch, during the Labour party conference.
The reason I said I thought they were a bunch of chumps, for a newspaper like the Sun to insult its readers by supporting one party right until a particular speech on one day and then turn on a sixpence and undergo this Damascene conversion and they were after all Conservative supporters would be incredible to their readers.The reason I said I thought they were a bunch of chumps, for a newspaper like the Sun to insult its readers by supporting one party right until a particular speech on one day and then turn on a sixpence and undergo this Damascene conversion and they were after all Conservative supporters would be incredible to their readers.
He adds:He adds:
"To turn the Sun into some Tory fanzine on the flick of a coin between Rebekah Brooks and James Murdoch – 'Shall we do it today? Shall we wait another day?' – it was insulting for Sun readers. My paramount concern was for government. That's why I called them chumps. I thought they were making fools of themselves."To turn the Sun into some Tory fanzine on the flick of a coin between Rebekah Brooks and James Murdoch – 'Shall we do it today? Shall we wait another day?' – it was insulting for Sun readers. My paramount concern was for government. That's why I called them chumps. I thought they were making fools of themselves.
4.12pm: Mandelson draws comparisons between Tory media policy and James Murdoch's 2009 MacTaggart lecture.4.12pm: Mandelson draws comparisons between Tory media policy and James Murdoch's 2009 MacTaggart lecture.
He says the team supporting Tory media policy was same people helping Murdoch draft his speeches.He says the team supporting Tory media policy was same people helping Murdoch draft his speeches.
Mandelson says the "same teams working for the Conservative party and James Murdoch and lo and behold Mr Cameron comes up with commitments that were exactly corresponding with objectives of News International and James Murdoch came out with same sentiments when a month later he delivered his MacTaggart lecture."Mandelson says the "same teams working for the Conservative party and James Murdoch and lo and behold Mr Cameron comes up with commitments that were exactly corresponding with objectives of News International and James Murdoch came out with same sentiments when a month later he delivered his MacTaggart lecture."
4.14pm: Two things were happening, says Mandelson: News International saw the Tories were on the up, and its interests would be more suited by Conservatives than another Labour government.4.14pm: Two things were happening, says Mandelson: News International saw the Tories were on the up, and its interests would be more suited by Conservatives than another Labour government.
Jay asks if the same considerations didn't dictate their support for Labour in the 1990s.Jay asks if the same considerations didn't dictate their support for Labour in the 1990s.
Mandelson replies: "No because nothing was on offer from Mr Blair or Mr Brown or from the Labour party. There was from the Conservative party ... [David Cameron made] a deliberate institutional and personal attack on Ofcom which News International wanted to see swept off the board."Mandelson replies: "No because nothing was on offer from Mr Blair or Mr Brown or from the Labour party. There was from the Conservative party ... [David Cameron made] a deliberate institutional and personal attack on Ofcom which News International wanted to see swept off the board."
4.15pm: Jay asks Mandelson about the phone call alleged to have taken place between Murdoch and Brown, in which Murdoch said Brown had declared "war" on News International.4.15pm: Jay asks Mandelson about the phone call alleged to have taken place between Murdoch and Brown, in which Murdoch said Brown had declared "war" on News International.
Mandelson says: "I wasn't on the call, I hadn't been patched into the call. I assume there was a call because I seem to recall the prime minister telling me that Mr Murdoch was not at all happy with the timing of the Sun's switch."Mandelson says: "I wasn't on the call, I hadn't been patched into the call. I assume there was a call because I seem to recall the prime minister telling me that Mr Murdoch was not at all happy with the timing of the Sun's switch."
4.17pm: Jay asks if Brown told Mandelson what he told Murdoch.4.17pm: Jay asks if Brown told Mandelson what he told Murdoch.
"No, he told me what Mr Murdoch had told him," says Mandelson. "I cannot remember being told by Mr Brown what he said. I have no way of knowing.""No, he told me what Mr Murdoch had told him," says Mandelson. "I cannot remember being told by Mr Brown what he said. I have no way of knowing."
4.19pm: Mandelson is asked whether he met Murdoch around this time.4.19pm: Mandelson is asked whether he met Murdoch around this time.
"I don't know when ... I was asked to go to dinner with him, some time around the spring of 2010. I declined the invitation to dinner; I agreed to go and see him at his flat before dinner, but not to stay for dinner.""I don't know when ... I was asked to go to dinner with him, some time around the spring of 2010. I declined the invitation to dinner; I agreed to go and see him at his flat before dinner, but not to stay for dinner."
4.22pm: Mandelson on that Murdoch meeting:4.22pm: Mandelson on that Murdoch meeting:
I think he wanted to – and he did – give me his views on how he saw it that the government had declared war on his company.I think he wanted to – and he did – give me his views on how he saw it that the government had declared war on his company.
I don't think there's any great secret that the government and the prime minister were unhappy that after all those years of support of the Sun, the Sun was now gunning for us.I don't think there's any great secret that the government and the prime minister were unhappy that after all those years of support of the Sun, the Sun was now gunning for us.
He was quite agitated, as he put it, that the government had declared war on his company.He was quite agitated, as he put it, that the government had declared war on his company.
He adds:He adds:
It's not something I would have sought or wished for [being at war with the Murdoch empire] but there we are. They had decided to withdraw their support.It's not something I would have sought or wished for [being at war with the Murdoch empire] but there we are. They had decided to withdraw their support.
4.24pm: On to News International lobbyist Fred Michel, who once worked for the thinktank of which Mandelson is chairman.4.24pm: On to News International lobbyist Fred Michel, who once worked for the thinktank of which Mandelson is chairman.
Mandelson he has not had any contact with Michel since 2003, although "he has messaged me".Mandelson he has not had any contact with Michel since 2003, although "he has messaged me".
"I am in a difficult position because he left my thinktank by mutual consent," he says, adding that some of that must remain confidential."I am in a difficult position because he left my thinktank by mutual consent," he says, adding that some of that must remain confidential.
Jay says he understands, but wants to know more about his "character and modus operandi".Jay says he understands, but wants to know more about his "character and modus operandi".
I don't want to mislead you, but I am in a difficult position. All I would say is that he was perhaps better at networking than he was dealing with policies. He was better over people than he was on policies – perhaps he might have been better suited to public relations than lobbying.I don't want to mislead you, but I am in a difficult position. All I would say is that he was perhaps better at networking than he was dealing with policies. He was better over people than he was on policies – perhaps he might have been better suited to public relations than lobbying.
Jay asks: "Is that it?"Jay asks: "Is that it?"
Mandelson replies: "Yes."Mandelson replies: "Yes."
4.28pm: Mandelson says "I don't have a party political issue" in relation to Michel.4.28pm: Mandelson says "I don't have a party political issue" in relation to Michel.
Leveson interrupts, to ask about the exchanges between Michel and Jeremy Hunt's office previously released to the inquiry.Leveson interrupts, to ask about the exchanges between Michel and Jeremy Hunt's office previously released to the inquiry.
Is he surprised by the suggestion that Michel's references to "JH" actually referred to Jeremy Hunt's office, rather than Hunt himself?Is he surprised by the suggestion that Michel's references to "JH" actually referred to Jeremy Hunt's office, rather than Hunt himself?
Mandelson: "No." Pressed by Leveson, he says the inquiry should "approach some of the communications that took place with some scepticism."Mandelson: "No." Pressed by Leveson, he says the inquiry should "approach some of the communications that took place with some scepticism."
4.29pm: Mandelson continues:4.29pm: Mandelson continues:
What on earth was a temporary civil servant, a special adviser to a secretary of state, doing texting like that and exchanging messages and information with a corporate lobbyist? If they'd have been in the Department for Business they would have been taken out and shot, in fact they would not have got to that stage.What on earth was a temporary civil servant, a special adviser to a secretary of state, doing texting like that and exchanging messages and information with a corporate lobbyist? If they'd have been in the Department for Business they would have been taken out and shot, in fact they would not have got to that stage.
4.31pm: Mandelson adds:4.31pm: Mandelson adds:
Perhaps it was the inexperience of the officials and the secretary of state [Hunt] and, dare I say it the department, that it didn't take greater preventative action to stop this inappropriate contact that would never have happened in my department.Perhaps it was the inexperience of the officials and the secretary of state [Hunt] and, dare I say it the department, that it didn't take greater preventative action to stop this inappropriate contact that would never have happened in my department.
4.32pm: Mandelson is asked about the Blair government's alleged obsession with "spin".4.32pm: Mandelson is asked about the Blair government's alleged obsession with "spin".
"In an organisation like No 10 Downing St there are things, people, processes that acquire a bigger prominence than others," says Mandelson."In an organisation like No 10 Downing St there are things, people, processes that acquire a bigger prominence than others," says Mandelson.
In Blair's first term, he says, the energy devoted to media relations as opposed to policy development "may have got out of kilter".In Blair's first term, he says, the energy devoted to media relations as opposed to policy development "may have got out of kilter".
4.37pm: Mandelson says people were "obsessed by the media ... what did spin become? Anything that a minister said, or anything said by someone working for a minister. It [spin] became the most over-used word in the English language".4.37pm: Mandelson says people were "obsessed by the media ... what did spin become? Anything that a minister said, or anything said by someone working for a minister. It [spin] became the most over-used word in the English language".
4.37pm: Jay asks if "spin" also involved bullying and excessive favouritism.4.37pm: Jay asks if "spin" also involved bullying and excessive favouritism.
The people who supported us? There weren't that many you know. Hardly a crime to talk to people who were going to give you a fair crack of the whip. Bullying? No. We did have a strong centre of government, wanted a strong sense of direction for government and country, that was turned into control freakery government. It's part and parcel of the propaganda war by another means.The people who supported us? There weren't that many you know. Hardly a crime to talk to people who were going to give you a fair crack of the whip. Bullying? No. We did have a strong centre of government, wanted a strong sense of direction for government and country, that was turned into control freakery government. It's part and parcel of the propaganda war by another means.
4.38pm: "I wish I could have played soft cop to someone else's hard cop," Jay quotes from Mandelson's book.4.38pm: "I wish I could have played soft cop to someone else's hard cop," Jay quotes from Mandelson's book.
"That's the story of my life," replies Mandelson. "I was tough but let me tell you in the 1980s we didn't have a lot to play with, nobody was doing us any favours, including ourselves.""That's the story of my life," replies Mandelson. "I was tough but let me tell you in the 1980s we didn't have a lot to play with, nobody was doing us any favours, including ourselves."
4.40pm: Mandelson does not accept he briefed against allies of Gordon Brown.4.40pm: Mandelson does not accept he briefed against allies of Gordon Brown.
4.40pm: Jay asks if Mandelson's job also involved briefing against others – attacking the allies of the man next door.4.40pm: Jay asks if Mandelson's job also involved briefing against others – attacking the allies of the man next door.
"If I was doing that which I don't accept I was, I didn't have any lessons to learn from next door," he replies."If I was doing that which I don't accept I was, I didn't have any lessons to learn from next door," he replies.
4.43pm: Jay asks Mandelson how much personal responsibility he accepts for the increase in cynicism and negativity towards politics.4.43pm: Jay asks Mandelson how much personal responsibility he accepts for the increase in cynicism and negativity towards politics.
"I don't accept it ... please, do me a favour," Mandelson replies."I don't accept it ... please, do me a favour," Mandelson replies.
Jay asks if the the fault lies with journalists rather than politicians.Jay asks if the the fault lies with journalists rather than politicians.
Mandelson says: "In a sense, up to a point, they deserve each other. Both must have responsibility for a relationship that has broken down."Mandelson says: "In a sense, up to a point, they deserve each other. Both must have responsibility for a relationship that has broken down."
He adds there needs to be a better working relationship, more transparency, understanding of what each other's job is.He adds there needs to be a better working relationship, more transparency, understanding of what each other's job is.
"The press must reflect on what's happened in their stable. I don't think it's pretty.""The press must reflect on what's happened in their stable. I don't think it's pretty."
4.45pm: On the future of the media, Mandelson says:4.45pm: On the future of the media, Mandelson says:
The challenges we are going to face as digital content takes over from print circulation are going to far exceed anything that we have had to deal with to date.The challenges we are going to face as digital content takes over from print circulation are going to far exceed anything that we have had to deal with to date.
"You're looking at a domestically and internationally sourced internet which is pouring out news and character assassination that doesn't even know how to spell the word 'privacy'."You're looking at a domestically and internationally sourced internet which is pouring out news and character assassination that doesn't even know how to spell the word 'privacy'.
4.46pm: Mandelson describes the evidence of Mail Online publisher Martin Clarke on the internet as "fascinating and chilling".4.46pm: Mandelson describes the evidence of Mail Online publisher Martin Clarke on the internet as "fascinating and chilling".
Jay asks Mandelson or his company Global Counsel hasgiven advice to News International.Jay asks Mandelson or his company Global Counsel hasgiven advice to News International.
"As a job?" asks Mandelson. "No ... I have talked on occasions to people about what's happened, obviously. It's hard not to.""As a job?" asks Mandelson. "No ... I have talked on occasions to people about what's happened, obviously. It's hard not to."
4.47pm: Mandelson said there should be a "truth and reconciliation commission" for the whole of the media.4.47pm: Mandelson said there should be a "truth and reconciliation commission" for the whole of the media.
4.48pm: Mandelson says he wants "statutory-based regulation" controlled by neither the press nor the government.4.48pm: Mandelson says he wants "statutory-based regulation" controlled by neither the press nor the government.

It's what we have in other walks of life, it's what we are used to, it's what lawyers have had to take on. Ofcom undertakes a perfectly reputable responsible role in regulating media generally in this country.
It's what we have in other walks of life, it's what we are used to, it's what lawyers have had to take on. Ofcom undertakes a perfectly reputable responsible role in regulating media generally in this country.
Why not have Ofcom, or Ofcom-like, doing the same in this context?Why not have Ofcom, or Ofcom-like, doing the same in this context?
4.57pm: Mandelson has this advice for editors:4.57pm: Mandelson has this advice for editors:
If newspapers spent more time looking into corporate misbehaviour and general wrongdoing rather than celebrity tittle tattle and gossip the country would be a lot better off, their circulation would go up and they would be more profitable.If newspapers spent more time looking into corporate misbehaviour and general wrongdoing rather than celebrity tittle tattle and gossip the country would be a lot better off, their circulation would go up and they would be more profitable.
4.58pm: Public opinion is a greater force for changing press regulation than any other mechanism, Mandelson says.4.58pm: Public opinion is a greater force for changing press regulation than any other mechanism, Mandelson says.
4.59pm: Jay asks Mandelson about the impact of modern technology on the press.4.59pm: Jay asks Mandelson about the impact of modern technology on the press.
Mandelson says it is a big issue that he is not sure how to tackle – but that is not a reason for plunging into "analysis paralysis". We should "address what we know and do what we can", he says.Mandelson says it is a big issue that he is not sure how to tackle – but that is not a reason for plunging into "analysis paralysis". We should "address what we know and do what we can", he says.
Privacy is to an extent a nebulous concept and they will feel it's not up to us to be the judge and jury ... If bloggers now don't accept the purvey or reach of the PCC heaven knows what we're going to do when the whole social media universe continues to explode … like managing a tsunami.Privacy is to an extent a nebulous concept and they will feel it's not up to us to be the judge and jury ... If bloggers now don't accept the purvey or reach of the PCC heaven knows what we're going to do when the whole social media universe continues to explode … like managing a tsunami.
5.01pm: Leveson reiterates his belief that the internet remains the elephant in the room at the inquiry.5.01pm: Leveson reiterates his belief that the internet remains the elephant in the room at the inquiry.
He wonders whether there is a difference between "those who are putting stories, facts, information, comment out in the course of a trade or business" as opposed to people on Facebook and Twitter.He wonders whether there is a difference between "those who are putting stories, facts, information, comment out in the course of a trade or business" as opposed to people on Facebook and Twitter.
"I'm not saying yay or nay, merely contemplating possibilities," he adds."I'm not saying yay or nay, merely contemplating possibilities," he adds.
5.02pm: Peter preston, former editor of the Guardian, has just tweeted:5.02pm: Peter preston, former editor of the Guardian, has just tweeted:
Mandy flays paranoia, cynicism; hails truth, justice, public opinion, the majesty of Parliament. Nota dry eye in the House....Mandy flays paranoia, cynicism; hails truth, justice, public opinion, the majesty of Parliament. Nota dry eye in the House....
— Peter Preston (@PJPrest) May 21, 2012— Peter Preston (@PJPrest) May 21, 2012
5.04pm: Mandelson says his sympathies lie with freedom of the internet. The difficulties are privacy and piracy and says he has no silver bullets or magic wands. Neither is he going to make water flow uphill.5.04pm: Mandelson says his sympathies lie with freedom of the internet. The difficulties are privacy and piracy and says he has no silver bullets or magic wands. Neither is he going to make water flow uphill.
5.07pm: The Guardian editor-in-chief, Alan Rusbridger, has just tweeted:5.07pm: The Guardian editor-in-chief, Alan Rusbridger, has just tweeted:
Mandelson scathing about Ld Hunt's proposals for reformed PCC. "We need independent regulation, not self-reg. "#LevesonMandelson scathing about Ld Hunt's proposals for reformed PCC. "We need independent regulation, not self-reg. "#Leveson
— alan rusbridger (@arusbridger) May 21, 2012— alan rusbridger (@arusbridger) May 21, 2012
5.08pm: Counsel for the Metropolitan police, Neil Garnham, asks Mandelson about his allegations that deputy assistant commissioner John Yates was leaking information about the "cash for honours" scandal.5.08pm: Counsel for the Metropolitan police, Neil Garnham, asks Mandelson about his allegations that deputy assistant commissioner John Yates was leaking information about the "cash for honours" scandal.
"You don't have any evidence do you, Mr Mandelson?" "I have belief.""You don't have any evidence do you, Mr Mandelson?" "I have belief."
"But no evidence, Mr Mandelson?" "I have belief.""But no evidence, Mr Mandelson?" "I have belief."
"If I thought there was no foundation I wouldn't have made the comments I did," he adds."If I thought there was no foundation I wouldn't have made the comments I did," he adds.
"They were as surprised as anyone to find themselves on the phone to DAC Yates.""They were as surprised as anyone to find themselves on the phone to DAC Yates."
5.10pm: Mandelson has now finished his evidence.5.10pm: Mandelson has now finished his evidence.
5.24pm: Here is a roundup of today's evidence:5.24pm: Here is a roundup of today's evidence:
• There was "no Faustian deal" between Rupert Murdoch and Labour government, Lord Mandelson said.• There was "no Faustian deal" between Rupert Murdoch and Labour government, Lord Mandelson said.
• Adam Smith, the former special adviser to Jeremy Hunt, would have been "taken out and shot" for briefing News Corp if working for Mandelson.• Adam Smith, the former special adviser to Jeremy Hunt, would have been "taken out and shot" for briefing News Corp if working for Mandelson.
• Mandelson denied briefing against allies of Gordon Brown while in government.• Mandelson denied briefing against allies of Gordon Brown while in government.
• Tessa Jowell said her phone was extensively hacked by the News of the World for stories about her family in 2006.• Tessa Jowell said her phone was extensively hacked by the News of the World for stories about her family in 2006.
• Jowell admitted the "uncritical willingness" of the government over the role of the Press Complaints Commission.• Jowell admitted the "uncritical willingness" of the government over the role of the Press Complaints Commission.
• Jowell rejected the claim that she declined to give a statement to police over the hacking, adding that she would have provided one if she had been asked.• Jowell rejected the claim that she declined to give a statement to police over the hacking, adding that she would have provided one if she had been asked.
5.57pm: We are now winding up the live blog for today, but will be back at 10am tomorrow for evidence from Tom Watson MP, Alan Johnson MP and Lord Smith.5.57pm: We are now winding up the live blog for today, but will be back at 10am tomorrow for evidence from Tom Watson MP, Alan Johnson MP and Lord Smith.