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EU referendum bill debated in Lords EU Referendum Bill debate: Peers urged to avoid 'damaging' delays
(about 1 hour later)
The House of Lords is debating a bill that would allow a referendum on the UK's membership of the EU in 2017. A former leader of the House of Lords has warned peers not to delay a bill that would allow a referendum on the UK's membership of the EU in 2017.
PM David Cameron has already pledged to hold a referendum in 2017 if the Tories win the next election. The bill, introduced by Tory MP James Wharton, would write the pledge into law. As debate on the EU Referendum Bill continued, Lord Strathclyde said this would be "comprehensively damaging" for the Lords' reputation.
The bill passed its final stage in the Commons in November despite Labour and Lib Dem efforts to delay its passage. PM David Cameron has already pledged to hold a referendum in 2017 if the Tories win the next election.
It is likely to face a tougher time in the Lords, where it could be derailed. The bill, introduced by Tory MP James Wharton, would enact this pledge.
It has already passed through the Commons, despite Labour and Lib Dem efforts to delay its passage, but is likely to face a tougher time in the Lords.
It is now being debated at second reading, the parliamentary stage at which MPs or peers consider the general principles of the legislation.It is now being debated at second reading, the parliamentary stage at which MPs or peers consider the general principles of the legislation.
By convention, peers rarely vote against legislation at this stage, but sometimes seek to delay it.By convention, peers rarely vote against legislation at this stage, but sometimes seek to delay it.
Labour peer Lord Richard warned that if peers did not make sufficiently rapid progress in the debate he might seek to force a second day of second-reading debate.Labour peer Lord Richard warned that if peers did not make sufficiently rapid progress in the debate he might seek to force a second day of second-reading debate.
That could mean that the bill's proponents will run out of time to get it through during this parliamentary session.That could mean that the bill's proponents will run out of time to get it through during this parliamentary session.
Even if it is granted a second reading and proceeds to more detailed scrutiny of its provisions, Labour, Lib Dem and pro-European Conservatives are expected to join forces to try to amend the bill.Even if it is granted a second reading and proceeds to more detailed scrutiny of its provisions, Labour, Lib Dem and pro-European Conservatives are expected to join forces to try to amend the bill.
If amended, the legislation would need to clear the Commons again by the end of February or it will again face the risk of running out of parliamentary time.If amended, the legislation would need to clear the Commons again by the end of February or it will again face the risk of running out of parliamentary time.
'Blunt instrument' 'Whispers'
If this bill fails, the government could take the unusual step of re-introducing an identical bill and using the Parliament Act - a piece of legislation which enables the Commons to over-rule the Lords - to force it on to the statute books.If this bill fails, the government could take the unusual step of re-introducing an identical bill and using the Parliament Act - a piece of legislation which enables the Commons to over-rule the Lords - to force it on to the statute books.
But despite David Cameron's backing for the bill - part of efforts to prove he is serious about holding a referendum - he may opt not to take such a step.But despite David Cameron's backing for the bill - part of efforts to prove he is serious about holding a referendum - he may opt not to take such a step.
Even if the bill successfully becomes law it does not guarantee a referendum in 2017 since no Parliament can bind its successor.Even if the bill successfully becomes law it does not guarantee a referendum in 2017 since no Parliament can bind its successor.
Among the peers due to speak in the debate are former Conservative chancellors Lord Howe of Aberavon and Lord Lawson of Blaby, former Labour leader and EU commissioner Lord Kinnock, Conservative and former EU commissioner Lord Tugendhat, ex-cabinet secretaries Lord Turnbull and Lord Armstrong of Ilminster, and crossbench peer and historian Lord Hennessy of Nympsfield. Speaking in Friday's debate, Lord Strathclyde said: "We do have the power to block the bill but I believe we do not have the authority to do so.
Lord Dobbs, the Conservative peer who is spearheading the bill's passage through the Lords, told Radio 4's Today programme that Europe had become a "pestilence in our political system" and "we need to get rid of this burden". "Nobody outside this House would understand why the Lords were deliberately denying the people their say on this issue.
"I hear it whispered that a small number of peers plan to stop the bill, to use our much valued free and open procedures to disrupt progress, and therefore delay the bill, and therefore use time to stop it from becoming law.
"I can think of little else that would be so comprehensively damaging to the well-earned reputation of the Lords for fair-minded scrutiny."
'Blunt instrument'
Lord Dobbs, the Conservative peer who is spearheading the bill's passage through the Lords, earlier told Radio 4's Today programme that Europe had become a "pestilence in our political system" and "we need to get rid of this burden".
"Nobody below the age of 60 has ever had a chance to have a say on this issue," he said."Nobody below the age of 60 has ever had a chance to have a say on this issue," he said.
"We need to decide one way or another whether we are going to stick with Europe or leave.""We need to decide one way or another whether we are going to stick with Europe or leave."
But Labour peer and former European Commissioner Lord Mandelson said the threat of British exit would "diminish not enhance to get much-needed reforms in Europe". Opening debate in the upper chamber, he added: "This bill is needed and it is very much wanted."
"A referendum is a very blunt instrument that needs to be handled with great care," he told the same programme. But Labour peer and former European Commissioner Lord Mandelson accused the Conservatives of "grandstanding" to UKIP while Lib Dem peer Lord Oakeshott said a referendum was "the coward's way out".
"Membership of the European Union is absolutely fundamental to British interests." "They are an abdication of responsibility by leaders and parties who haven't the courage to take a decision," he said.
James Wharton has acknowledged his bill would have a tougher time in the upper house but said: "For an unelected house to deny the British people a say on a bill which has been passed by the elected House of Commons, I think, would put them in a very difficult position." Ex-Labour leader Lord Kinnock argued that this bill only "exists because the prime minister, through a series of lame gestures and rejected assurances, has tried to assuage the militant Europhobes in his party and has failed".
It is unlikely there will be a vote in the Lords on Friday, but the debate will set the scene for divisions to come. "His efforts have been as fruitless as appeasement always deserves to be," he said.
Both the prime minister's deputy Nick Clegg and Labour leader Ed Miliband have warned of the uncertainty and damage to business they say would be caused by holding a referendum. Both the prime minister's deputy Nick Clegg and Labour leader Ed Miliband have warned of the uncertainty and damage to business they say would be caused by committing to a referendum in 2017.