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| Version 2 | Version 3 |
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| Abbott, Shorten and Indigenous leaders discuss recognition referendum – live | Abbott, Shorten and Indigenous leaders discuss recognition referendum – live |
| (35 minutes later) | |
| 3.38pm AEST06:38 | |
| Kirstie Parker, co-chair of the National Congress of Australia’s First Peoples and Yuwallarai woman called the meeting “constructive” and hoped the fact both party leaders came together in a show of bipartisanship was illustrative of the process going forward. She said strong political leadership was vital to success. | |
| Echoing the criticisms that have come from a number of Indigenous Australian commentators, Parker iterated that “symbolic change alone is not enough” and outlined some concrete points discussed today: | |
| Parker made it clear that ongoing engagement with Indigenous Australians, an opportunity to “express our voices specifically in that process”, was very important. | |
| We are not standing before you, saying this must be ‘crashed through’ – before people have had an opportunity to understand what is being proposed. | |
| She also said none of the Indigenous leaders present claim to speak for all Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander people. Only simply that they’re “prepared to have a conversation about righting a historic wrong in Australia’s history”. | |
| Updated at 3.59pm AEST | |
| 3.07pm AEST06:07 | 3.07pm AEST06:07 |
| Shorten said that he will be meeting with the prime minister to decide which “eminent Australians” will belong to the new referendum council, but that it will definitely comprise of both Indigenous and non-Indigenous Australians. | Shorten said that he will be meeting with the prime minister to decide which “eminent Australians” will belong to the new referendum council, but that it will definitely comprise of both Indigenous and non-Indigenous Australians. |
| When asked if the group will be “mainly Indigenous” he said he won’t be getting hung up on “numbers and personalities”. The council will report to the Abbott and Shorten on a quarterly basis. | When asked if the group will be “mainly Indigenous” he said he won’t be getting hung up on “numbers and personalities”. The council will report to the Abbott and Shorten on a quarterly basis. |
| Up to 40 of these “community conferences” will take place around Australia, and Shorten said it was important that “they’re resourced, they’re taken seriously, people feel engaged”. They are expected to begin as early as September. | Up to 40 of these “community conferences” will take place around Australia, and Shorten said it was important that “they’re resourced, they’re taken seriously, people feel engaged”. They are expected to begin as early as September. |
| He said there was no satisfactory answer to why this process had taken 115 years but said the point of the day is that it was finally being dealt with. | He said there was no satisfactory answer to why this process had taken 115 years but said the point of the day is that it was finally being dealt with. |
| We want our constitution to be able to explain to young Australians, to our next generation, how we see ourselves in the mirror. And a constitution which excludes our first Australians is an incomplete document. | We want our constitution to be able to explain to young Australians, to our next generation, how we see ourselves in the mirror. And a constitution which excludes our first Australians is an incomplete document. |
| Changing our constitution is a most serious exercise and it’s one that needs to be embarked upon in a most conservative and cautious fashion. But I also think the constitution needs to be updated and I think we may be another step towards it. | Changing our constitution is a most serious exercise and it’s one that needs to be embarked upon in a most conservative and cautious fashion. But I also think the constitution needs to be updated and I think we may be another step towards it. |
| In reference to the hard negotiations that lie ahead, Shorten said symbolic change alone “won’t be accepted by many people”, but it was important to recognise with so many diverse perspectives there would have to be a good deal of compromise on everyone’s behalf. | In reference to the hard negotiations that lie ahead, Shorten said symbolic change alone “won’t be accepted by many people”, but it was important to recognise with so many diverse perspectives there would have to be a good deal of compromise on everyone’s behalf. |
| Updated at 3.49pm AEST | |
| 2.35pm AEST05:35 | 2.35pm AEST05:35 |
| Opposition leader Bill Shorten has followed Abbott with comments to media, and said the gathering was a “test” to see if they could “move this nation closer to sorting out the great silence of the constitution”. | Opposition leader Bill Shorten has followed Abbott with comments to media, and said the gathering was a “test” to see if they could “move this nation closer to sorting out the great silence of the constitution”. |
| He called the constitution the “nation’s birth certificate” and said it must include all Australians, “including our first Australians”. | He called the constitution the “nation’s birth certificate” and said it must include all Australians, “including our first Australians”. |
| Over the course of four hours, the two men apparently put aside party politics to talk with 40 indigenous leaders, establishing plans for a series of community conferences that would “engage Indigenous and non-Indigenous Australians, at the grassroots, big cities and our regional centres”. | Over the course of four hours, the two men apparently put aside party politics to talk with 40 indigenous leaders, establishing plans for a series of community conferences that would “engage Indigenous and non-Indigenous Australians, at the grassroots, big cities and our regional centres”. |
| Shorten said these conferences would be supported and supervised by a referendum council, whose job will be to “talk through the technical issues” and ensure all parts of the Australian population are reached. | Shorten said these conferences would be supported and supervised by a referendum council, whose job will be to “talk through the technical issues” and ensure all parts of the Australian population are reached. |
| Updated at 2.41pm AEST | Updated at 2.41pm AEST |
| 2.14pm AEST05:14 | 2.14pm AEST05:14 |
| The meeting has wrapped up and prime minister, Tony Abbott, has emerged to tell media that a “significant step forward” has been made on the question of constitutional recognition, but “not the final step”. | The meeting has wrapped up and prime minister, Tony Abbott, has emerged to tell media that a “significant step forward” has been made on the question of constitutional recognition, but “not the final step”. |
| Abbott has made it clear this is just the first of many meetings and planned “community conferences” that will take place around the nation. | Abbott has made it clear this is just the first of many meetings and planned “community conferences” that will take place around the nation. |
| He added this wasn’t a day to “rule things in or out” but rather establish a process – one which will be supervised by a soon to-be-established referendum council. | He added this wasn’t a day to “rule things in or out” but rather establish a process – one which will be supervised by a soon to-be-established referendum council. |
| This is a terrific thing that we have built here in this country. But what we now need to do is end the echoing silence in our constitution. That echoing silence is omission of Indigenous people in our constitution. | This is a terrific thing that we have built here in this country. But what we now need to do is end the echoing silence in our constitution. That echoing silence is omission of Indigenous people in our constitution. |
| The question of who should make up this council will become a critical and no doubt hotly debated question. | The question of who should make up this council will become a critical and no doubt hotly debated question. |
| The prime minister ended by saying he felt “this time is right to move down this path” and that there is now enough goodwill to see a proposed form of constitutional change by mid-2016, and hopefully a referendum the following year. | The prime minister ended by saying he felt “this time is right to move down this path” and that there is now enough goodwill to see a proposed form of constitutional change by mid-2016, and hopefully a referendum the following year. |
| We are good enough and brave enough to do this. But it is important to get this process right. | We are good enough and brave enough to do this. But it is important to get this process right. |
| Updated at 3.46pm AEST | |
| 1.40pm AEST04:40 | 1.40pm AEST04:40 |
| Welcome to Guardian Australia’s live coverage of an important meeting at Kirribilli House in Sydney, between the prime minister, Tony Abbott, opposition leader Bill Shorten and 40 Indigenous Australian community leaders to discuss proposed changes to the constitution. | Welcome to Guardian Australia’s live coverage of an important meeting at Kirribilli House in Sydney, between the prime minister, Tony Abbott, opposition leader Bill Shorten and 40 Indigenous Australian community leaders to discuss proposed changes to the constitution. |
| The two issues being discussed: the removal of two provisions that allow for racial discrimination and recognising Indigenous people in the constitution. | The two issues being discussed: the removal of two provisions that allow for racial discrimination and recognising Indigenous people in the constitution. |
| The meeting itself has already attracted some criticism. Guardian Australia reporter Shalailah Medhora reported on 50 protesters calling for sovereignty over recognition, with one man arrested for spitting at a Commonwealth government vehicle. | The meeting itself has already attracted some criticism. Guardian Australia reporter Shalailah Medhora reported on 50 protesters calling for sovereignty over recognition, with one man arrested for spitting at a Commonwealth government vehicle. |
| Speakers at the protest were flanked by a dozen police officers who barricaded the gate of the conference centre. Ken Canning, who addressed the crowd, pointed the finger of blame at Indigenous leaders taking part in the meetings. | Speakers at the protest were flanked by a dozen police officers who barricaded the gate of the conference centre. Ken Canning, who addressed the crowd, pointed the finger of blame at Indigenous leaders taking part in the meetings. |
| “We have to start calling these things for what they are,” Canning said. “This is not just a meeting; this is an act of treason against their own people.” | “We have to start calling these things for what they are,” Canning said. “This is not just a meeting; this is an act of treason against their own people.” |
| “They are legitimising everything he [Abbott] has done [to Aboriginal people] by sitting down with him,” Canning said. | “They are legitimising everything he [Abbott] has done [to Aboriginal people] by sitting down with him,” Canning said. |
| One woman yelled outside the window where the leaders were meeting. “You don’t speak for 65% of Indigenous people, you sell-outs!” | One woman yelled outside the window where the leaders were meeting. “You don’t speak for 65% of Indigenous people, you sell-outs!” |
| Writing for Comment is Free, Ngunawal man and constitutional law academic Darren Parker questioned why an official list of attendees was not published: | Writing for Comment is Free, Ngunawal man and constitutional law academic Darren Parker questioned why an official list of attendees was not published: |
| While some names have been reported recently and some knowledge of attendees is known across many Indigenous communities, it is only a partial list – approximately 18 of the stated 40 people invited. It is better known in communities who is not invited (hint: the largest Aboriginal organisation in the country was not invited – the NSW Aboriginal Land Council). It appears that history is being repeated and not being made, in this sense. | While some names have been reported recently and some knowledge of attendees is known across many Indigenous communities, it is only a partial list – approximately 18 of the stated 40 people invited. It is better known in communities who is not invited (hint: the largest Aboriginal organisation in the country was not invited – the NSW Aboriginal Land Council). It appears that history is being repeated and not being made, in this sense. |
| Abbott will soon be making comments to media, followed by Shorten and a number of these community leaders. | Abbott will soon be making comments to media, followed by Shorten and a number of these community leaders. |
| Updated at 3.47pm AEST |