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| Abbott, Shorten and Indigenous leaders discuss recognition referendum – as it happened | |
| (35 minutes later) | |
| 5.15pm AEST08:15 | |
| Summary | |
| This is Monica Tan closing the blog up. Here’s what we learned from today’s meeting, one called “historic” by former chairman of the Council for Aboriginal Reconciliation Patrick Dodson, but has also attracted criticism from other members of the Indigenous Australian community. | |
| Don’t forget, today marks day two of Naidoc (National Aborigines and Islanders Day Observance Committee) week, the annual celebration of Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander culture, which continues until Sunday 12 July. | |
| Updated at 5.16pm AEST | |
| 4.45pm AEST07:45 | |
| Dodson called today’s meeting a “a great occasion”, as prime minister Tony Abbott, opposition leader Bill Shorten and 40 Indigenous community leaders met to discuss the recognition Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander people in the constitution, and removing certain sections that are underpinned by racism. | |
| He said it was: | |
| A great occasion, a great event, historic and terribly meaningful in the context of what we’re trying to do around a very complicated matter. | |
| He also made it clear today was about process and setting up a framework to work within rather than any “substantive matters”. | |
| The meeting at Kirribilli House attracted protesters, who highlighted issues such as the closure of remote Aboriginal communities. Dodson said the Indigenous leaders present were mindful of the “complexity of issues that are confronting our people”. | |
| We’re very conscious of that. We have focused on the constitution, which is a narrow, pretty erudite sort of subject area, when you haven’t got decent organisations to deliver on health, or housing, or assisting you with family violence and all those matters. | |
| We’re not unmindful of that. But I think this is an occasion in the history of this country where we need some of our leaders focusing on how the complexities can be handled and taken forward around the constitution – because this is an opportunity we have. | |
| Updated at 5.18pm AEST | |
| 4.18pm AEST07:18 | 4.18pm AEST07:18 |
| For those impatient for constitutional recognition to become reality, Patrick Dodson, a respected Indigenous community leader and Yawuru man said that after such a long wait a few more months “is not going to hurt us”. | |
| We have to have a timeframe, in which to focus your attention. We all understand that. But the major matter is, let’s get the substance of this right, through the consultation process and through conventions, rather than set a time and not do the necessary consultation and interaction with the community. | We have to have a timeframe, in which to focus your attention. We all understand that. But the major matter is, let’s get the substance of this right, through the consultation process and through conventions, rather than set a time and not do the necessary consultation and interaction with the community. |
| It might take us a bit of time, but I think there is a commitment not to let this drift – otherwise we’ll all suffer from amnesia – or not to rush it, because we may well get it wrong. | It might take us a bit of time, but I think there is a commitment not to let this drift – otherwise we’ll all suffer from amnesia – or not to rush it, because we may well get it wrong. |
| Parker added that in the meeting there had been support of the recommendations put forward by the joint select committee on constitutional recognition of Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander peoples, which included only taking a referendum forward when it has a real chance of succeeding. | |
| Such precautionary words seem to contrast the firmer 2017 date set by the two party leaders. Earlier Shorten echoed comments by Abbott that a proposed model will be ready by mid-2016, and said ideally this would happen before the next election, in order to “move it out of the cycle of politics”. | Such precautionary words seem to contrast the firmer 2017 date set by the two party leaders. Earlier Shorten echoed comments by Abbott that a proposed model will be ready by mid-2016, and said ideally this would happen before the next election, in order to “move it out of the cycle of politics”. |
| However Dodson said politicians “study the crystal ball of their futures far more closely than we do” and that they held a degree of optimism about their longevity. Nonetheless, the commitment they had shown was important. | However Dodson said politicians “study the crystal ball of their futures far more closely than we do” and that they held a degree of optimism about their longevity. Nonetheless, the commitment they had shown was important. |
| And I don’t think the interference of an election somewhere is necessarily going to derail that commitment. | And I don’t think the interference of an election somewhere is necessarily going to derail that commitment. |
| Updated at 4.59pm AEST | |
| 3.38pm AEST06:38 | 3.38pm AEST06:38 |
| Kirstie Parker, co-chair of the National Congress of Australia’s First Peoples and Yuwallarai woman called the meeting “constructive” and hoped the fact both party leaders came together in a show of bipartisanship was illustrative of the process going forward. She said strong political leadership was vital to success. | Kirstie Parker, co-chair of the National Congress of Australia’s First Peoples and Yuwallarai woman called the meeting “constructive” and hoped the fact both party leaders came together in a show of bipartisanship was illustrative of the process going forward. She said strong political leadership was vital to success. |
| Echoing the criticisms that have come from a number of Indigenous Australian commentators, Parker iterated that “symbolic change alone is not enough” and outlined some concrete points discussed today: | Echoing the criticisms that have come from a number of Indigenous Australian commentators, Parker iterated that “symbolic change alone is not enough” and outlined some concrete points discussed today: |
| Parker made it clear that ongoing engagement with Indigenous Australians, an opportunity to “express our voices specifically in that process”, was very important. | Parker made it clear that ongoing engagement with Indigenous Australians, an opportunity to “express our voices specifically in that process”, was very important. |
| We are not standing before you, saying this must be ‘crashed through’ – before people have had an opportunity to understand what is being proposed. | We are not standing before you, saying this must be ‘crashed through’ – before people have had an opportunity to understand what is being proposed. |
| She also said none of the Indigenous leaders present claim to speak for all Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander people. Only simply that they’re “prepared to have a conversation about righting a historic wrong in Australia’s history”. | She also said none of the Indigenous leaders present claim to speak for all Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander people. Only simply that they’re “prepared to have a conversation about righting a historic wrong in Australia’s history”. |
| Updated at 5.19pm AEST | |
| 3.07pm AEST06:07 | 3.07pm AEST06:07 |
| Shorten said that he will be meeting with the prime minister to decide which “eminent Australians” will belong to the new referendum council, but that it will definitely comprise of both Indigenous and non-Indigenous Australians. | Shorten said that he will be meeting with the prime minister to decide which “eminent Australians” will belong to the new referendum council, but that it will definitely comprise of both Indigenous and non-Indigenous Australians. |
| When asked if the group will be “mainly Indigenous” he said he won’t be getting hung up on “numbers and personalities”. The council will report to the Abbott and Shorten on a quarterly basis. | When asked if the group will be “mainly Indigenous” he said he won’t be getting hung up on “numbers and personalities”. The council will report to the Abbott and Shorten on a quarterly basis. |
| Up to 40 of these “community conferences” will take place around Australia, and Shorten said it was important that “they’re resourced, they’re taken seriously, people feel engaged”. They are expected to begin as early as September. | Up to 40 of these “community conferences” will take place around Australia, and Shorten said it was important that “they’re resourced, they’re taken seriously, people feel engaged”. They are expected to begin as early as September. |
| He said there was no satisfactory answer to why this process had taken 115 years but said the point of the day is that it was finally being dealt with. | He said there was no satisfactory answer to why this process had taken 115 years but said the point of the day is that it was finally being dealt with. |
| We want our constitution to be able to explain to young Australians, to our next generation, how we see ourselves in the mirror. And a constitution which excludes our first Australians is an incomplete document. | We want our constitution to be able to explain to young Australians, to our next generation, how we see ourselves in the mirror. And a constitution which excludes our first Australians is an incomplete document. |
| Changing our constitution is a most serious exercise and it’s one that needs to be embarked upon in a most conservative and cautious fashion. But I also think the constitution needs to be updated and I think we may be another step towards it. | Changing our constitution is a most serious exercise and it’s one that needs to be embarked upon in a most conservative and cautious fashion. But I also think the constitution needs to be updated and I think we may be another step towards it. |
| In reference to the hard negotiations that lie ahead, Shorten said symbolic change alone “won’t be accepted by many people”, but it was important to recognise with so many diverse perspectives there would have to be a good deal of compromise on everyone’s behalf. | In reference to the hard negotiations that lie ahead, Shorten said symbolic change alone “won’t be accepted by many people”, but it was important to recognise with so many diverse perspectives there would have to be a good deal of compromise on everyone’s behalf. |
| Updated at 3.49pm AEST | Updated at 3.49pm AEST |
| 2.35pm AEST05:35 | 2.35pm AEST05:35 |
| Opposition leader Bill Shorten has followed Abbott with comments to media, and said the gathering was a “test” to see if they could “move this nation closer to sorting out the great silence of the constitution”. | Opposition leader Bill Shorten has followed Abbott with comments to media, and said the gathering was a “test” to see if they could “move this nation closer to sorting out the great silence of the constitution”. |
| He called the constitution the “nation’s birth certificate” and said it must include all Australians, “including our first Australians”. | He called the constitution the “nation’s birth certificate” and said it must include all Australians, “including our first Australians”. |
| Over the course of four hours, the two men apparently put aside party politics to talk with 40 indigenous leaders, establishing plans for a series of community conferences that would “engage Indigenous and non-Indigenous Australians, at the grassroots, big cities and our regional centres”. | Over the course of four hours, the two men apparently put aside party politics to talk with 40 indigenous leaders, establishing plans for a series of community conferences that would “engage Indigenous and non-Indigenous Australians, at the grassroots, big cities and our regional centres”. |
| Shorten said these conferences would be supported and supervised by a referendum council, whose job will be to “talk through the technical issues” and ensure all parts of the Australian population are reached. | Shorten said these conferences would be supported and supervised by a referendum council, whose job will be to “talk through the technical issues” and ensure all parts of the Australian population are reached. |
| Updated at 2.41pm AEST | Updated at 2.41pm AEST |
| 2.14pm AEST05:14 | 2.14pm AEST05:14 |
| The meeting has wrapped up and prime minister, Tony Abbott, has emerged to tell media that a “significant step forward” has been made on the question of constitutional recognition, but “not the final step”. | The meeting has wrapped up and prime minister, Tony Abbott, has emerged to tell media that a “significant step forward” has been made on the question of constitutional recognition, but “not the final step”. |
| Abbott has made it clear this is just the first of many meetings and planned “community conferences” that will take place around the nation. | Abbott has made it clear this is just the first of many meetings and planned “community conferences” that will take place around the nation. |
| He added this wasn’t a day to “rule things in or out” but rather establish a process – one which will be supervised by a soon to-be-established referendum council. | He added this wasn’t a day to “rule things in or out” but rather establish a process – one which will be supervised by a soon to-be-established referendum council. |
| This is a terrific thing that we have built here in this country. But what we now need to do is end the echoing silence in our constitution. That echoing silence is omission of Indigenous people in our constitution. | This is a terrific thing that we have built here in this country. But what we now need to do is end the echoing silence in our constitution. That echoing silence is omission of Indigenous people in our constitution. |
| The question of who should make up this council will become a critical and no doubt hotly debated question. | The question of who should make up this council will become a critical and no doubt hotly debated question. |
| The prime minister ended by saying he felt “this time is right to move down this path” and that there is now enough goodwill to see a proposed form of constitutional change by mid-2016, and hopefully a referendum the following year. | The prime minister ended by saying he felt “this time is right to move down this path” and that there is now enough goodwill to see a proposed form of constitutional change by mid-2016, and hopefully a referendum the following year. |
| We are good enough, big enough and brave enough to do this. But it is important to get this process right. | We are good enough, big enough and brave enough to do this. But it is important to get this process right. |
| Updated at 4.23pm AEST | Updated at 4.23pm AEST |
| 1.40pm AEST04:40 | 1.40pm AEST04:40 |
| Welcome to Guardian Australia’s live coverage of an important meeting at Kirribilli House in Sydney, between the prime minister, Tony Abbott, opposition leader Bill Shorten and 40 Indigenous Australian community leaders to discuss proposed changes to the constitution. | Welcome to Guardian Australia’s live coverage of an important meeting at Kirribilli House in Sydney, between the prime minister, Tony Abbott, opposition leader Bill Shorten and 40 Indigenous Australian community leaders to discuss proposed changes to the constitution. |
| The two issues being discussed: the removal of two provisions that allow for racial discrimination and recognising Indigenous people in the constitution. | The two issues being discussed: the removal of two provisions that allow for racial discrimination and recognising Indigenous people in the constitution. |
| The meeting itself has already attracted some criticism. Guardian Australia reporter Shalailah Medhora reported on 50 protesters calling for sovereignty over recognition, with one man arrested for spitting at a Commonwealth government vehicle. | The meeting itself has already attracted some criticism. Guardian Australia reporter Shalailah Medhora reported on 50 protesters calling for sovereignty over recognition, with one man arrested for spitting at a Commonwealth government vehicle. |
| Speakers at the protest were flanked by a dozen police officers who barricaded the gate of the conference centre. Ken Canning, who addressed the crowd, pointed the finger of blame at Indigenous leaders taking part in the meetings. | Speakers at the protest were flanked by a dozen police officers who barricaded the gate of the conference centre. Ken Canning, who addressed the crowd, pointed the finger of blame at Indigenous leaders taking part in the meetings. |
| “We have to start calling these things for what they are,” Canning said. “This is not just a meeting; this is an act of treason against their own people.” | “We have to start calling these things for what they are,” Canning said. “This is not just a meeting; this is an act of treason against their own people.” |
| “They are legitimising everything he [Abbott] has done [to Aboriginal people] by sitting down with him,” Canning said. | “They are legitimising everything he [Abbott] has done [to Aboriginal people] by sitting down with him,” Canning said. |
| One woman yelled outside the window where the leaders were meeting. “You don’t speak for 65% of Indigenous people, you sell-outs!” | One woman yelled outside the window where the leaders were meeting. “You don’t speak for 65% of Indigenous people, you sell-outs!” |
| Writing for Comment is Free, Ngunawal man and constitutional law academic Darren Parker questioned why an official list of attendees was not published: | Writing for Comment is Free, Ngunawal man and constitutional law academic Darren Parker questioned why an official list of attendees was not published: |
| While some names have been reported recently and some knowledge of attendees is known across many Indigenous communities, it is only a partial list – approximately 18 of the stated 40 people invited. It is better known in communities who is not invited (hint: the largest Aboriginal organisation in the country was not invited – the NSW Aboriginal Land Council). It appears that history is being repeated and not being made, in this sense. | While some names have been reported recently and some knowledge of attendees is known across many Indigenous communities, it is only a partial list – approximately 18 of the stated 40 people invited. It is better known in communities who is not invited (hint: the largest Aboriginal organisation in the country was not invited – the NSW Aboriginal Land Council). It appears that history is being repeated and not being made, in this sense. |
| Abbott will soon be making comments to media, followed by Shorten and a number of these community leaders. | Abbott will soon be making comments to media, followed by Shorten and a number of these community leaders. |
| Updated at 3.47pm AEST | Updated at 3.47pm AEST |