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Harriet Harman under attack over welfare stance - Politics live Harriet Harman under attack over welfare stance - Politics live
(35 minutes later)
10.56am BST10:56
The candidates are being asked about immigration now.
Burnham says this is the Clause 4 moment and that Labour can’t keep averting its eyes when the issue comes up, but the party shouldn’t try and out-Ukip Ukip. Free to work should not mean free to claim. We need a contributory benefits system.
Kendall says 20% of her constituency voted Ukip, so she has never averted her eyes to the issue. Immigrants need to respect the culture of the place they live in. We need to deal with the consequences of immigration on public services, but also deal with the skills shortage, she says.
Cooper says immigration is important for Britain, but it needs to be controlled and managed. Employers who exploit immigration to undercut wages need to be tackled. It’s not racist to be worried about immigration, but much of what Ukip said was racist. You can talk about immigration using responsible language, she says.
Let’s be positive about what immigration has done for our country’s economy, says Corbyn. They run our hospitals and transport system, they pay their taxes and many British people live abroad too.
The audience was asked stand up to indicate which candidate they would back. It looked roughly like a five way split, with a significant chunk saying they wouldn’t back any of them.
That’s all from the hustings. I’ll post a summary shortly.
Updated at 11.01am BST
10.48am BST10:48
Corbyn is being asked about meetings he has organised with Hamas and Hezbollah. He says he disagrees with them profoundly on many issues, but says you need to talk to these people to promote a peace process. He spoke to Sinn Fein during the troubles in Northern Ireland. He gets a round of applause for this.
10.36am BST10:36
Rebuilding our connection with people in Scotland will take time, says Burnham. Corbyn says there needs to be better representation of Scottish Labour within the Labour party, but doesn’t think there should be a separate Scottish Labour party.
10.32am BST10:3210.32am BST10:32
Alistair Darling told Burnham government debt was too high in 2007Alistair Darling told Burnham government debt was too high in 2007
Burnham says he disagrees with Cooper and that he knows that government debt was too high in 2007 because he worked as chief secretary to the treasury at the time and the then-chancellor, Alistair Darling, told him it was too high. Members of the audience tell him to say sorry and he does (very quietly).Burnham says he disagrees with Cooper and that he knows that government debt was too high in 2007 because he worked as chief secretary to the treasury at the time and the then-chancellor, Alistair Darling, told him it was too high. Members of the audience tell him to say sorry and he does (very quietly).
10.29am BST10:2910.29am BST10:29
Kendall is asked about the idea that she is in the wrong party. If we don’t back business and create wealth, we won’t have the money to put into public services, says Kendall. If people think a strong economy, sound public finances and backing businesses is something that only the Conservatives do, then the Conservatives will always be in government, she says.Kendall is asked about the idea that she is in the wrong party. If we don’t back business and create wealth, we won’t have the money to put into public services, says Kendall. If people think a strong economy, sound public finances and backing businesses is something that only the Conservatives do, then the Conservatives will always be in government, she says.
Burnham and Cooper are asked if they think Kendall is too inexperienced to be party leader. Burnham basically says yes, arguing that his experience in government makes him qualified.Burnham and Cooper are asked if they think Kendall is too inexperienced to be party leader. Burnham basically says yes, arguing that his experience in government makes him qualified.
Corbyn has jumped into defend Kendall, saying that it’s a debate and that it’s sad that people are saying such things just because they don’t agree with her.Corbyn has jumped into defend Kendall, saying that it’s a debate and that it’s sad that people are saying such things just because they don’t agree with her.
Cooper says that she disagrees with Corbyn and thinks you cannot wish the debt and the deficit away. She says the debt is the result of the banking crisis, not Labour’s spending plans. You cannot say that Labour’s spending on school and hospitals caused Lehman Brothers bank in New York to collapse.Cooper says that she disagrees with Corbyn and thinks you cannot wish the debt and the deficit away. She says the debt is the result of the banking crisis, not Labour’s spending plans. You cannot say that Labour’s spending on school and hospitals caused Lehman Brothers bank in New York to collapse.
10.16am BST10:1610.16am BST10:16
An audience member says he feels there is no leadership in the Labour party.An audience member says he feels there is no leadership in the Labour party.
Burnham says he is offering big change. The Westminster bubble is full of people who went to university, so university is focused on and kids who want a practical training are ignored.Burnham says he is offering big change. The Westminster bubble is full of people who went to university, so university is focused on and kids who want a practical training are ignored.
There is a huge responsibility for Labour to win next time, says Cooper. We should have 3% investment in science, research and development. (It’s currently half that.) Britain needs to lead in the digital revolution, just as it did in the industrial revolution.There is a huge responsibility for Labour to win next time, says Cooper. We should have 3% investment in science, research and development. (It’s currently half that.) Britain needs to lead in the digital revolution, just as it did in the industrial revolution.
We have got to start with our best asset, which is our people, and have a vision for giving every child the best education, says Kendall. She says she wants to win power, so she can give it away to local authorities and individuals.We have got to start with our best asset, which is our people, and have a vision for giving every child the best education, says Kendall. She says she wants to win power, so she can give it away to local authorities and individuals.
10.11am BST10:1110.11am BST10:11
Liz Kendall appears to back curbing tax credits for low-paid workers, driving kids into poverty, on #VictoriaLive https://t.co/vXZK1ayx4kLiz Kendall appears to back curbing tax credits for low-paid workers, driving kids into poverty, on #VictoriaLive https://t.co/vXZK1ayx4k
Liz Kendall prevaricates on #VictoriaLive but suggests she is open to curbing tax credits: http://t.co/8UukvYu2bF pic.twitter.com/ULQ035TIEaLiz Kendall prevaricates on #VictoriaLive but suggests she is open to curbing tax credits: http://t.co/8UukvYu2bF pic.twitter.com/ULQ035TIEa
Does Burnham ever answer a question without shouting platitudes? "Tea Andy?" "BURST THE WESTMINSTER BUBBLE! GIVE PEOPLE HOPE!" #victorialiveDoes Burnham ever answer a question without shouting platitudes? "Tea Andy?" "BURST THE WESTMINSTER BUBBLE! GIVE PEOPLE HOPE!" #victorialive
10.04am BST10:0410.04am BST10:04
People feel they’ve lost of a party that speaks for them, says Burnham. He argues that social care should be included in the NHS.People feel they’ve lost of a party that speaks for them, says Burnham. He argues that social care should be included in the NHS.
We’re losing low and high-skilled jobs to China and India, says Cooper. Britain is not punching its weight.We’re losing low and high-skilled jobs to China and India, says Cooper. Britain is not punching its weight.
Kendall says politics is both tough and simple. People want good jobs, good schools, good prospects. Unless they face head-on the trust in the economy and on benefits, Labour won’t win again.Kendall says politics is both tough and simple. People want good jobs, good schools, good prospects. Unless they face head-on the trust in the economy and on benefits, Labour won’t win again.
Corbyn, says voting Ukip doesn’t build a house and that Labour needs to challenge the economic orthodoxy on cuts.Corbyn, says voting Ukip doesn’t build a house and that Labour needs to challenge the economic orthodoxy on cuts.
9.55am BST09:559.55am BST09:55
The comments are now on! Sorry about that everybody.The comments are now on! Sorry about that everybody.
9.52am BST09:529.52am BST09:52
The BBC’s assistant political editor has asked the candidate what their Clause 4 would be. The BBC’s assistant political editor Norman Smith has asked the candidates what their Clause 4 would be.
Burnham says the big change it needs to make is to move away from the Westminster bubble. We’ve looked like a Westminster think tank at points. He says Labour needs to trust its councils to make big decisions.Burnham says the big change it needs to make is to move away from the Westminster bubble. We’ve looked like a Westminster think tank at points. He says Labour needs to trust its councils to make big decisions.
Kendall says Blair had his Clause 4 moment once he was leader and that she wouldn’t set out what hers might be. Harman understands that Labour needs to change.Kendall says Blair had his Clause 4 moment once he was leader and that she wouldn’t set out what hers might be. Harman understands that Labour needs to change.
Cooper says Labour needs to win the 2020 election, not the 1997 election. So looking back isn’t helpful. She says she would back the cut in corporation tax to 18%.Cooper says Labour needs to win the 2020 election, not the 1997 election. So looking back isn’t helpful. She says she would back the cut in corporation tax to 18%.
Corbyn says we need to get tough internationally on big tax-dodging companies. This budget is about more poverty and a small number of people getting a lot richer, he says. He gets a clap for this.Corbyn says we need to get tough internationally on big tax-dodging companies. This budget is about more poverty and a small number of people getting a lot richer, he says. He gets a clap for this.
Updated at 10.42am BST
9.47am BST09:479.47am BST09:47
Many parents who aren’t on child tax credits have to make difficult decisions about how many children they can afford, says Kendall, when she’s asked about her decision to back the cap on child tax credits to two children.Many parents who aren’t on child tax credits have to make difficult decisions about how many children they can afford, says Kendall, when she’s asked about her decision to back the cap on child tax credits to two children.
Yvette Cooper says she doesn’t think Labour should back the cuts to tax credits. “They are an important part of making work pay”.Yvette Cooper says she doesn’t think Labour should back the cuts to tax credits. “They are an important part of making work pay”.
Andy Burnham says they shouldn’t allow a change that will make people worse off.Andy Burnham says they shouldn’t allow a change that will make people worse off.
Jeremy Corbyn says the budget was brutal, will hit young people and he will oppose the changes.Jeremy Corbyn says the budget was brutal, will hit young people and he will oppose the changes.
9.41am BST09:419.41am BST09:41
Liz Kendall is speaking now. Whenever Labour has won elections they have done it by standing up for the weak and vulnerable, but also by offering people to others, she says. People need to trust us on the economy and with their taxes. Liz Kendall is speaking now. Whenever Labour has won elections they have done it by standing up for the weak and vulnerable, but also by offering things to other people, she says. People need to trust us on the economy and with their taxes. We cannot oppose things if we can’t say how we would pay for it, she says.
Andy Burnham says he realised that the longer the drive that you had to walk down to get to the front door to canvas, the less you would have to say to the people on the other side.Andy Burnham says he realised that the longer the drive that you had to walk down to get to the front door to canvas, the less you would have to say to the people on the other side.
I’m opposing these changes to tax credits because the IFS says it is a disincentive to work, says Burnham. A national living wage that starts at 25 is no good for younger people, he adds, getting a gentle round of applause from the audience.I’m opposing these changes to tax credits because the IFS says it is a disincentive to work, says Burnham. A national living wage that starts at 25 is no good for younger people, he adds, getting a gentle round of applause from the audience.
Updated at 10.40am BST
9.35am BST09:359.35am BST09:35
We do need to shake up the old boys network, says Yvette Cooper, but Labour will not solve the problem by moving “our narrow party” a little bit to the right or left.We do need to shake up the old boys network, says Yvette Cooper, but Labour will not solve the problem by moving “our narrow party” a little bit to the right or left.
We shouldn’t knock somebody who has done the difficult job of Labour party leader, she says on Miliband.We shouldn’t knock somebody who has done the difficult job of Labour party leader, she says on Miliband.
We need to take on the idea from the Tories that it was the deficit that caused the financial crisis, she says. We shouldn’t give in to Tory myths. We need to dispute the Tory idea that it was the deficit that caused the financial crisis, she says. We shouldn’t give in to Tory myths.
Updated at 10.38am BST
9.32am BST09:329.32am BST09:32
The audience are expressing their thoughts on why Labour lost.The audience are expressing their thoughts on why Labour lost.
One says the leadership candidates need to remember that Tony Blair won three elections and that there aren’t enough left wing people to get Labour into power.One says the leadership candidates need to remember that Tony Blair won three elections and that there aren’t enough left wing people to get Labour into power.
Another audience member says they don’t want Labour to get into power by being be the same as the Tories.Another audience member says they don’t want Labour to get into power by being be the same as the Tories.
9.25am BST09:259.25am BST09:25
Labour leadership hustings on the Victoria Derbyshire showLabour leadership hustings on the Victoria Derbyshire show
Labour’s leadership candidates are in Leamington Spa at a hustings which s being televised on BBC2. They are all making their opening statements and have been asked to tell us something we don’t know about them. Labour’s leadership candidates are in Leamington Spa at a hustings which is being televised on BBC2. They are all making their opening statements and have been asked to tell us something we don’t know about them.
Andy Burnham has said his wife was once on Blind Date and chose Will from Surrey who ended up being the head of communications for the Conservative party.Andy Burnham has said his wife was once on Blind Date and chose Will from Surrey who ended up being the head of communications for the Conservative party.
Liz Kendall says she never wanted to be a politician, she wanted to be a dancer. People aren’t going to trust us in government unless they trust us on the economy, she says. Labour needs a fresh start.Liz Kendall says she never wanted to be a politician, she wanted to be a dancer. People aren’t going to trust us in government unless they trust us on the economy, she says. Labour needs a fresh start.
Yvette Cooper says she also did tap dancing lessons as a child and suggests that her and Liz Kendall should get together and do a routine. She says she always wanted to be Dr Who’s assistant.Yvette Cooper says she also did tap dancing lessons as a child and suggests that her and Liz Kendall should get together and do a routine. She says she always wanted to be Dr Who’s assistant.
Jeremy Corbyn says “as you can see, I’m the youth candidate”. He says he likes cycling in Warwickshire because it’s flat.Jeremy Corbyn says “as you can see, I’m the youth candidate”. He says he likes cycling in Warwickshire because it’s flat.
Victoria Derbyshire asks if they’ve passed the “Human Test”. The audience doesn’t seem so sure.Victoria Derbyshire asks if they’ve passed the “Human Test”. The audience doesn’t seem so sure.
Updated at 10.05am BST Updated at 10.37am BST
9.15am BST09:159.15am BST09:15
Nato decides what counts towards 2% target, says FallonNato decides what counts towards 2% target, says Fallon
There will be defence questions in parliament today from around 2.30 and there is sure to be more questioning of the government over its promise to commit to 2% of GDP on defence spending. Osborne had hoped to include £1.5bn of intelligence spending in the target, but a Nato spokesman told the Sun last week it was a “well-established principle” that only money spent on “military intelligence” could be counted in the target.There will be defence questions in parliament today from around 2.30 and there is sure to be more questioning of the government over its promise to commit to 2% of GDP on defence spending. Osborne had hoped to include £1.5bn of intelligence spending in the target, but a Nato spokesman told the Sun last week it was a “well-established principle” that only money spent on “military intelligence” could be counted in the target.
Defence secretary Michael Fallon spoke to the Today programme about an hour ago and said it was up to Nato to decide what can count towards the 2% defence spending and seemed to suggest that the UK would continue to meet the target if Nato revised the definition.Defence secretary Michael Fallon spoke to the Today programme about an hour ago and said it was up to Nato to decide what can count towards the 2% defence spending and seemed to suggest that the UK would continue to meet the target if Nato revised the definition.
“There’s no mystery about this, they rule on it,” he said. “We will easily clear the 2% threshold this year and we will remain so, the Prime Minister has made that very clear, we are going to meet the target.”“There’s no mystery about this, they rule on it,” he said. “We will easily clear the 2% threshold this year and we will remain so, the Prime Minister has made that very clear, we are going to meet the target.”
Fallon also commented on his proposition made earlier this month that it was illogical to target Isis in Iraq but not Syria.Fallon also commented on his proposition made earlier this month that it was illogical to target Isis in Iraq but not Syria.
“Well, it’s for the new Parliament now to chew this over and decide whether it’s logical for the Americans and our Gulf allies in the coalition to be attacking them in Syria when we are doing a lot of the attacking in Iraq,” he said, adding that the government was not planning an early vote on the issue.“Well, it’s for the new Parliament now to chew this over and decide whether it’s logical for the Americans and our Gulf allies in the coalition to be attacking them in Syria when we are doing a lot of the attacking in Iraq,” he said, adding that the government was not planning an early vote on the issue.
Updated at 10.07am BSTUpdated at 10.07am BST
8.58am BST08:588.58am BST08:58
Speaking on the Sunday Politics yesterday, Labour’s acting leader Harriet Harman said Labour would not vote against the government’s welfare bill and should not oppose limiting child tax credits to two children.Speaking on the Sunday Politics yesterday, Labour’s acting leader Harriet Harman said Labour would not vote against the government’s welfare bill and should not oppose limiting child tax credits to two children.
“We cannot simply say to the public you were wrong at the election,” she said. “We’ve got to wake up and recognise that this was not a blip; we’ve had a serious defeat and we must listen to why.”“We cannot simply say to the public you were wrong at the election,” she said. “We’ve got to wake up and recognise that this was not a blip; we’ve had a serious defeat and we must listen to why.”
The decision has sparked outrage from party activists and three of the four leadership candidates, Andy Burnham, Jeremy Corbyn and Yvette Cooper. Here is the whole story from the Guardian’s political editor, Patrick Wintour. There will be a meeting of Labour MPs later today, which I will try and bring you some intel from.The decision has sparked outrage from party activists and three of the four leadership candidates, Andy Burnham, Jeremy Corbyn and Yvette Cooper. Here is the whole story from the Guardian’s political editor, Patrick Wintour. There will be a meeting of Labour MPs later today, which I will try and bring you some intel from.
The party’s leadership candidates are about to speak at a hustings on the Victoria Derbyshire show on BBC2 at 9.15. I will be live blogging the debate and you can watch it here.The party’s leadership candidates are about to speak at a hustings on the Victoria Derbyshire show on BBC2 at 9.15. I will be live blogging the debate and you can watch it here.
Morning! Join us at 09:15 @BBCTwo and the @BBCNews Channel for a live Labour leadership debate at @WarwickshireCol https://t.co/vblupNAM0DMorning! Join us at 09:15 @BBCTwo and the @BBCNews Channel for a live Labour leadership debate at @WarwickshireCol https://t.co/vblupNAM0D
As usual I will be covering the breaking political news as it happens, as well as bringing you the best reaction, comment and analysis from the web. I will post a summary at lunchtime and another in the afternoon.As usual I will be covering the breaking political news as it happens, as well as bringing you the best reaction, comment and analysis from the web. I will post a summary at lunchtime and another in the afternoon.
I’m filling in for Andrew Sparrow today and if you want to follow me on Twitter, I’m on @fperraudin.I’m filling in for Andrew Sparrow today and if you want to follow me on Twitter, I’m on @fperraudin.