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Republican 'kids table' debate sets the stage for Trump and Bush – live updates Republican 'kids table' debate sets the stage for Trump and Bush – live updates
(35 minutes later)
7.39pm ET00:39
Rick Perry, Lindsey Graham, Bobby Jindal and Rick Santorum are having dinner together, according to the Wall Street Journal and Time magazine, thus fulfilling the dream of exactly no one who has ever been asked about whom they would invite to a dinner party if they could invite anyone in the world.
Perry, Jindal, Santorum, and Graham are all having dinner together at 9pm tonight. Organized by Perry camp. All 7 were invited.
Questions remain for the kids’ table candidates, who will soon literally sit around a table together as their better funded, better polling rivals take the stage. Applebee’s or Arby’s? Do they share the sides, or do jalapeño bites bother Bobby Jindal’s delicate constitution and anti-Hispanic sensibilities? Do Rick Santorum’s religious beliefs preclude eating “riblets”? And for all those jobs he created, does Rick Perry pick up the bill?
7.28pm ET00:28
Happy Gilmore
The consensus among pundits after the first debate on Thursday night was that former HP executive Carly Fiorina was the big winner. Fiorina gave a polished impressive performance that drew national attention to her underdog candidacy. She wasn’t the only to do well. Other pundits thought Rick Perry and Lindsey Graham also turned in solid performances and were able to stay on message.But none of those candidate were the true winner. That was former Virginia governor Jim Gilmore.
Gilmore was the 17th candidate to declare a bid for the GOP nomination and is obscure even in his home state where he served one undistinguished term as governor from 2001-05. As opposed to the other candidates on stage, all of whom have run active campaigns and tried to raise money, Gilmore has done little, if anything, to be a viable candidate. And he got to be on stage Thursday night.
The result is while he didn’t say anything memorable, do anything memorable or even look particularly memorable. Gilmore has to be the big winner. After all, before tonight, it’s doubtful if even political diehards had heard his name. Now, he hasn’t just gotten 15 minutes in the spotlight but over one hour in not quite primetime.
-Ben Jacobs
7.22pm ET00:22
“There is one particular rule that, more than any other, could shape this debate – and perhaps limit the appetite of anyone considering aiming a barb at Donald Trump,” writes my colleague Paul Lewis (@paullewis), reporting from Cleveland.
If one candidate refers to another, the latter will have a chance to defend themselves with a rebuttal, the duration of which is at the moderator’s discretion.
That means that the candidate who gets mentioned the most (Trump, for example) could end up with the most airtime. It is a catch that could also dissuade the frontrunner in the polls from taking aim at any of his rivals.
Karl Rove, George W Bush’s svengali, mentioned this in a recent discussion with Fox News host Chris Wallace, who will be moderating tonight’s debate. “In politics, the counterpunch is often times more powerful than the punch,” Rove said.
“And what Donald Trump doesn’t want to place himself in the position of doing is throwing a punch, and having counterpunches wailed on him throughout the night.”
“I don’t anticipate this will devolve into a Donald Trump show or a Donald Trump smackdown of all of his opponents,” Mitchell McKinney, a professor in political communication at the University of Missouri who studies campaign debates, told the Guardian.
That said, he believes the debate is far more unpredictable than a general election debate, where the rules are “much more tightly scripted”. The power, really, is in the hands of the candidates, and the three Fox News moderators: Wallace, Megyn Kelly and Bret Baier.
“They can decide who to pose questions to, they can decide which candidates get a chance to respond, giving more time and opportunity for some candidates versus others,” McKinney said.
“The flow of the discussion will be greatly influenced by those journalists but also the candidates.”
Updated at 7.25pm ET
7.07pm ET00:07
Fiorina wins the coveted “most-searched-for” award, Google reveals, which may actually mean something for candidates desperate for voters to learn their names.
Updated at 7.19pm ET
7.04pm ET00:047.04pm ET00:04
After the debate, the candidates stroll off into what’s called the “spin room”, where they talk to reporters and apparently declare victory.After the debate, the candidates stroll off into what’s called the “spin room”, where they talk to reporters and apparently declare victory.
Graham’s campaign manager, for instance, released a statement saying he “was the clear winner in today’s ‘happy hour’ debate. He is ready to be commander-in-chief on day one.”Graham’s campaign manager, for instance, released a statement saying he “was the clear winner in today’s ‘happy hour’ debate. He is ready to be commander-in-chief on day one.”
Fiorina complains about debate rules w/o saying they should be changed; Says people like her when they hear her. pic.twitter.com/eM3YSheGAOFiorina complains about debate rules w/o saying they should be changed; Says people like her when they hear her. pic.twitter.com/eM3YSheGAO
There’s also a fair amount of complaining: Gilmore and Graham say the polling used by Fox only uses name recognition, and not how voters actually feel about candidates. Fiorina complains about the rules but happily adds that people like what they hear from her nonetheless.There’s also a fair amount of complaining: Gilmore and Graham say the polling used by Fox only uses name recognition, and not how voters actually feel about candidates. Fiorina complains about the rules but happily adds that people like what they hear from her nonetheless.
Pataki delivers a sound bite that surprises no one: “I’m not a real sound bite guy.”Pataki delivers a sound bite that surprises no one: “I’m not a real sound bite guy.”
Perry muttering "done, done, done!" as he navigates his way out of spin room through pesky reportersPerry muttering "done, done, done!" as he navigates his way out of spin room through pesky reporters
Updated at 7.09pm ET
6.44pm ET23:446.44pm ET23:44
SummarySummary
And with that the kids’ table debate of poorly polling candidates ends, and the men and woman depart the mostly empty arena.And with that the kids’ table debate of poorly polling candidates ends, and the men and woman depart the mostly empty arena.
6.40pm ET23:406.40pm ET23:40
In the 2008 Democratic race Barack Obama described Hillary Clinton as “likeable enough”, our hosts tell us. So what two words would this lot use to describe her?In the 2008 Democratic race Barack Obama described Hillary Clinton as “likeable enough”, our hosts tell us. So what two words would this lot use to describe her?
The key here is two words. TWO WORDS. Say it in two words, you schlubs! Suffice to say, no one uses two words. We hear: “Not the change we need”; “professional politician that can’t be trusted”; “divisive and with no vision at all”.The key here is two words. TWO WORDS. Say it in two words, you schlubs! Suffice to say, no one uses two words. We hear: “Not the change we need”; “professional politician that can’t be trusted”; “divisive and with no vision at all”.
Only Rick Santorum uses two words. But I can’t remember what they were, because what should have been seven people saying 14 words turned into seven people dictating the great American novel. Let’s hope the same question is asked of Donald Trump tonight. “You’re fired!”Only Rick Santorum uses two words. But I can’t remember what they were, because what should have been seven people saying 14 words turned into seven people dictating the great American novel. Let’s hope the same question is asked of Donald Trump tonight. “You’re fired!”
-Adam Gabbatt-Adam Gabbatt
Updated at 6.42pm ETUpdated at 6.42pm ET
6.25pm ET23:256.25pm ET23:25
Jeb LundJeb Lund
Look at this picture of the audience:Look at this picture of the audience:
I know politicians have major egos, but it has to be pretty crushing to look out and see this audience. (NYT photo). pic.twitter.com/0FRHs7g7OrI know politicians have major egos, but it has to be pretty crushing to look out and see this audience. (NYT photo). pic.twitter.com/0FRHs7g7Or
There’s a very bitter joke to make here about people who determine the value of anything and everything by the market’s estimation of it.There’s a very bitter joke to make here about people who determine the value of anything and everything by the market’s estimation of it.
Let’s just pull the Trump lever and go home.Let’s just pull the Trump lever and go home.
—Jeb Lund—Jeb Lund
6.23pm ET23:236.23pm ET23:23
Graham delivers a surprisingly demur statement, urging cooperation and civility, of all things. “We’re becoming Greece if we don’t work together,” he warns.Graham delivers a surprisingly demur statement, urging cooperation and civility, of all things. “We’re becoming Greece if we don’t work together,” he warns.
He says he’ll help find compromises, “doing the hard things that should’ve been done a very long time ago.”He says he’ll help find compromises, “doing the hard things that should’ve been done a very long time ago.”
Pataki brings up for the second time that he was governor of New York on September 11, and Gilmore says … well, he said something, I’m sure.Pataki brings up for the second time that he was governor of New York on September 11, and Gilmore says … well, he said something, I’m sure.
6.21pm ET23:216.21pm ET23:21
Jeb LundJeb Lund
“Planned Parenthood had better hope Hillary Clinton wins this election.”“Planned Parenthood had better hope Hillary Clinton wins this election.”
That sound you just heard is every Democratic ad guru rolling back the footage, ripping it to disk, loading it into FinalCut Pro and saying, “Thank you.”That sound you just heard is every Democratic ad guru rolling back the footage, ripping it to disk, loading it into FinalCut Pro and saying, “Thank you.”
The heavily edited Planned Parenthood videos – whose factual revelations, what few there were, told nobody familiar with Planned Parenthood anything new – are apparently the horse that everyone is going to ride on.The heavily edited Planned Parenthood videos – whose factual revelations, what few there were, told nobody familiar with Planned Parenthood anything new – are apparently the horse that everyone is going to ride on.
It has everything. Government spending, economic dependency, religion, scary things about impermissible vaginal usage, hypocritical hysteria about the value of medical care and life. Lindsey Graham showed how valuable it is by pivoting immediately to Isis and the real War on Women.It has everything. Government spending, economic dependency, religion, scary things about impermissible vaginal usage, hypocritical hysteria about the value of medical care and life. Lindsey Graham showed how valuable it is by pivoting immediately to Isis and the real War on Women.
This isn’t going to go away until someone shuts down the government about it.This isn’t going to go away until someone shuts down the government about it.
—Jeb Lund—Jeb Lund
6.18pm ET23:186.18pm ET23:18
In his closing statement, Rick Perry waxes nostalgic for his happy days as governor of Texas, and eventually veers into a third-person self-glorification: “Nobody’s done it like Rick Perry’s done it over the last decade.”In his closing statement, Rick Perry waxes nostalgic for his happy days as governor of Texas, and eventually veers into a third-person self-glorification: “Nobody’s done it like Rick Perry’s done it over the last decade.”
Santorum opens his closing statement by boasting about his fertility (or at least his decades of rejecting birth control): “I have seven children and bringing them into this world if you’re not optimistic about the future of this country.”Santorum opens his closing statement by boasting about his fertility (or at least his decades of rejecting birth control): “I have seven children and bringing them into this world if you’re not optimistic about the future of this country.”
Jindal uses his statement to tap into Trump’s anti-immigration sentiment, and raise some hell: “They need to learn English, adopt our values, roll up their sleeves and get to work.”Jindal uses his statement to tap into Trump’s anti-immigration sentiment, and raise some hell: “They need to learn English, adopt our values, roll up their sleeves and get to work.”
"immigration without assimilation is an invasion," says @BobbyJindal"immigration without assimilation is an invasion," says @BobbyJindal
He then proceeds raise some hell with good English rhetoric by mixing metaphors: “I’ve got the backbone, I’ve got the bandwidth, I’ve to the experience.”He then proceeds raise some hell with good English rhetoric by mixing metaphors: “I’ve got the backbone, I’ve got the bandwidth, I’ve to the experience.”
Updated at 6.19pm ETUpdated at 6.19pm ET
6.13pm ET23:136.13pm ET23:13
The moderators ask the candidates how they would inspire Americans. Fiorina says “the potential of this nation and too many Americans is being crushed by the weight, the power, the cost, the ineptitude, the corruption of the federal government.”The moderators ask the candidates how they would inspire Americans. Fiorina says “the potential of this nation and too many Americans is being crushed by the weight, the power, the cost, the ineptitude, the corruption of the federal government.”
“Only someone who will challenge the status quo of Washington DC will restore this nation.”“Only someone who will challenge the status quo of Washington DC will restore this nation.”
Santorum also pitches himself as an outsider, and gets particularly excited talking about “cultural reforms” and changes “never seen before” for DC. He grins unblinking at the moderators, who turn to Lindsey Graham.Santorum also pitches himself as an outsider, and gets particularly excited talking about “cultural reforms” and changes “never seen before” for DC. He grins unblinking at the moderators, who turn to Lindsey Graham.
More sedate, Graham says “whatever it takes to defend our nation, I will do.” As for reforms, he says the US needs leaders who can broker compromises: “I’ll be the Ronald Reagan if I can find a Tip O’Neill.”More sedate, Graham says “whatever it takes to defend our nation, I will do.” As for reforms, he says the US needs leaders who can broker compromises: “I’ll be the Ronald Reagan if I can find a Tip O’Neill.”
They’re then given a chance to “describe Hillary Clinton in two words,” and about two of them actually only use two words, eg “secretive and untrustworthy”, “socialist and government dependent”, and “not the change we need.”They’re then given a chance to “describe Hillary Clinton in two words,” and about two of them actually only use two words, eg “secretive and untrustworthy”, “socialist and government dependent”, and “not the change we need.”
6.08pm ET23:086.08pm ET23:08
Taking stabs at rapid-fire statements, nearly all the candidates say they’d undo lots of things that Obama has done – from the nuclear deal with Iran to executive actions on immigration and so on.Taking stabs at rapid-fire statements, nearly all the candidates say they’d undo lots of things that Obama has done – from the nuclear deal with Iran to executive actions on immigration and so on.
Perry talks about immigration and Iran, Graham about restoring the “gutted” spying powers of the NSA. Santorum says, apropos nothing in particular, that he would “make sure that people of faith are not being harassed and prosecuted by the federal government.”Perry talks about immigration and Iran, Graham about restoring the “gutted” spying powers of the NSA. Santorum says, apropos nothing in particular, that he would “make sure that people of faith are not being harassed and prosecuted by the federal government.”
Fiorina, allowed to run well over her allotted time by the moderators, says she would “begin by undoing a whole set of things that President Obama has done whether it’s illegal amnesty or this latest round of EPA regulations.”Fiorina, allowed to run well over her allotted time by the moderators, says she would “begin by undoing a whole set of things that President Obama has done whether it’s illegal amnesty or this latest round of EPA regulations.”
6.05pm ET23:056.05pm ET23:05
Lindsey Graham handles the question with a bit of rhetorical horror: “I don’t think it’s a war on women for all of us as Americans sto stand up and stop harvesting organs from little babies.”Lindsey Graham handles the question with a bit of rhetorical horror: “I don’t think it’s a war on women for all of us as Americans sto stand up and stop harvesting organs from little babies.”
He suggests putting the money given to Planned Parenthood into women’s health funds, and again says we must not “harvest the organs of the unborn.”He suggests putting the money given to Planned Parenthood into women’s health funds, and again says we must not “harvest the organs of the unborn.”
Graham then performs a rhetorical backflip and lands somehow on foreign policy, by way of saying the real war on women is in the Middle East.Graham then performs a rhetorical backflip and lands somehow on foreign policy, by way of saying the real war on women is in the Middle East.
“Folks I’ve been there 35 times,” he says. “These mythical Arab armies that my friends talk about to protect us, they don’t exist.”“Folks I’ve been there 35 times,” he says. “These mythical Arab armies that my friends talk about to protect us, they don’t exist.”
He wants American soldiers in Iraq, Syria, Afghanistan, “because we must.”He wants American soldiers in Iraq, Syria, Afghanistan, “because we must.”
6.01pm ET23:016.01pm ET23:01
Reproductive rights! Pataki gets the question, as the only pro-choice candidate running for the Republican nomination.Reproductive rights! Pataki gets the question, as the only pro-choice candidate running for the Republican nomination.
The moderators throw in a jab about how no pro-choice candidate has won the primary in decades.The moderators throw in a jab about how no pro-choice candidate has won the primary in decades.
“I’m a Catholic, I believe life begins at conception,” Pataki says, not getting into any nuance of what his position might be. He does say he doesn’t believe Republicans should try to change Roe v Wade and abortion rights, “but what we can do is defund Planned Parenthood.”“I’m a Catholic, I believe life begins at conception,” Pataki says, not getting into any nuance of what his position might be. He does say he doesn’t believe Republicans should try to change Roe v Wade and abortion rights, “but what we can do is defund Planned Parenthood.”
He offers a hodgepodge plan to effectively make abortion rights as difficult as possible to access without actually taking the issue back to court or Congress.He offers a hodgepodge plan to effectively make abortion rights as difficult as possible to access without actually taking the issue back to court or Congress.
What you won't usually hear at R debate: Pataki says Roe v Wade is settled law and "I don't think we should continue to try to change it."What you won't usually hear at R debate: Pataki says Roe v Wade is settled law and "I don't think we should continue to try to change it."
Updated at 6.02pm ETUpdated at 6.02pm ET
5.55pm ET22:555.55pm ET22:55
Santorum, a loud and roundly mocked opponent of gay rights, is asked about the historic supreme court decision this year to legalize same-sex marriage around the US.Santorum, a loud and roundly mocked opponent of gay rights, is asked about the historic supreme court decision this year to legalize same-sex marriage around the US.
The one-time senator gets angry. “This is a rogue supreme court,” he says.The one-time senator gets angry. “This is a rogue supreme court,” he says.
Jim Gilmore, who is somehow still on stage, also accuses the supreme court of “making the law up” instead of following it.Jim Gilmore, who is somehow still on stage, also accuses the supreme court of “making the law up” instead of following it.
Apparently aware that almost everyone had forgotten him, Gilmore tries to jump in on that last question about conflicts in the Middle East.Apparently aware that almost everyone had forgotten him, Gilmore tries to jump in on that last question about conflicts in the Middle East.
He says the difference between Iran and Isil is that Iran is “expansionist” while “Isil is trying to create themselves into a new state.”He says the difference between Iran and Isil is that Iran is “expansionist” while “Isil is trying to create themselves into a new state.”
“I have proposed that there be a Middle East Nato so that we can combine our allies there,” he says “and stop this Isil thing before it becomes an actual state.”“I have proposed that there be a Middle East Nato so that we can combine our allies there,” he says “and stop this Isil thing before it becomes an actual state.”
5.52pm ET22:525.52pm ET22:52
Iran questions! The first to Perry, about whether the US should align itself with Iran or Saudi Arabia, Qatar and other countries who have funded violent groups aroun the Middle East.Iran questions! The first to Perry, about whether the US should align itself with Iran or Saudi Arabia, Qatar and other countries who have funded violent groups aroun the Middle East.
Easy peasy, Perry says: “the side that keeps Iran from getting a nuclear weapon, that’s the side that we need to be on, and that’s the side of most of the Middle East.”Easy peasy, Perry says: “the side that keeps Iran from getting a nuclear weapon, that’s the side that we need to be on, and that’s the side of most of the Middle East.”
Perry offers a strange couple of shouts to Fiorina and Graham, saying that the former would’ve made a better diplomatic negotiator than John Kerry, and that Graham is on the right side of the argument.Perry offers a strange couple of shouts to Fiorina and Graham, saying that the former would’ve made a better diplomatic negotiator than John Kerry, and that Graham is on the right side of the argument.
“The first thing I’ll do is tear up that agreement with Iran.”“The first thing I’ll do is tear up that agreement with Iran.”
Fiorina gets the question next, saying that “on day one” in the Oval Office she would call up Israel’s prime minister – “my good friend Bibi Netanyahu” – and the second to Iran with hardline inspection demands.Fiorina gets the question next, saying that “on day one” in the Oval Office she would call up Israel’s prime minister – “my good friend Bibi Netanyahu” – and the second to Iran with hardline inspection demands.
5.51pm ET22:515.51pm ET22:51
Lindsey Graham normally cracks a joke every other sentence. Tonight, the three-term South Carolina senator is coming across as far more monotone and sober than usual. It feels like he’s been coached to seem far more of a generic politician than the Senate’s king of one liners.Lindsey Graham normally cracks a joke every other sentence. Tonight, the three-term South Carolina senator is coming across as far more monotone and sober than usual. It feels like he’s been coached to seem far more of a generic politician than the Senate’s king of one liners.
The candidate who makes cracks about being willing to show up to bar mitzvahs on the campaign trail and is a fixture on Sunday shows seems uncomfortable and awkward on stage tonight. Even his attack lines on Bill Clinton lost their edge. A line that referenced Graham’s fluency in “Clinton-speak” which was used to reference Monica Lewinsky in the New Hampshire forum Monday tonight had the edge taken off it on Thursday.The candidate who makes cracks about being willing to show up to bar mitzvahs on the campaign trail and is a fixture on Sunday shows seems uncomfortable and awkward on stage tonight. Even his attack lines on Bill Clinton lost their edge. A line that referenced Graham’s fluency in “Clinton-speak” which was used to reference Monica Lewinsky in the New Hampshire forum Monday tonight had the edge taken off it on Thursday.
—Ben Jacobs—Ben Jacobs
Updated at 5.59pm ETUpdated at 5.59pm ET
5.51pm ET22:515.51pm ET22:51
It’s important to remember that while those of us covering these folks have heard all their zingers a half-dozen times already, most people watching this debate – and the main event – have not.It’s important to remember that while those of us covering these folks have heard all their zingers a half-dozen times already, most people watching this debate – and the main event – have not.
So, for example, as groan-worthy as it is for political beat reporters to hear Lindsey Graham say that he’s learned how to speak Clinton over the last 20 years and words mean whatever they want and that Bill decides what “the meaning of ‘is’ is”, it’s still a pretty good zinger for the target audience.So, for example, as groan-worthy as it is for political beat reporters to hear Lindsey Graham say that he’s learned how to speak Clinton over the last 20 years and words mean whatever they want and that Bill decides what “the meaning of ‘is’ is”, it’s still a pretty good zinger for the target audience.
Ditto Rick Perry’s repetition about the border. Ditto Bobby Jindal saying, “They’re turning the American Dream into the European Nightmare” and “give Bernie Sanders credit for calling himself a socialist”. These are winners with primary voters, even if politics wonks might recognize them as days or thousands of years old already.Ditto Rick Perry’s repetition about the border. Ditto Bobby Jindal saying, “They’re turning the American Dream into the European Nightmare” and “give Bernie Sanders credit for calling himself a socialist”. These are winners with primary voters, even if politics wonks might recognize them as days or thousands of years old already.
-Jeb Lund-Jeb Lund
Updated at 5.59pm ETUpdated at 5.59pm ET
5.44pm ET22:445.44pm ET22:44
Trying to get the candidates to answer questions is like drawing blood from the proverbial stone, the moderators are finding.Trying to get the candidates to answer questions is like drawing blood from the proverbial stone, the moderators are finding.
Jindal finally answers a yes-or-no question when one of the moderators simply tells him he failed to answer it in the time he had. (Jindal says he wouldn’t expand Medicaid anywhere, unlike Ohio governor John Kasich.)Jindal finally answers a yes-or-no question when one of the moderators simply tells him he failed to answer it in the time he had. (Jindal says he wouldn’t expand Medicaid anywhere, unlike Ohio governor John Kasich.)
5.43pm ET22:435.43pm ET22:43
FYI Senator Lindsey Graham is standing on a box right now #GOPDebate pic.twitter.com/GtIzZyc8fmFYI Senator Lindsey Graham is standing on a box right now #GOPDebate pic.twitter.com/GtIzZyc8fm
Lindsey Graham took a shot at the “I’m not a scientist” crowd that constitutes most Republican presidential candidates.Lindsey Graham took a shot at the “I’m not a scientist” crowd that constitutes most Republican presidential candidates.
The South Carolina senator is one of the few Republicans who openly acknowledges that greenhouse gas emissions are contributing to global warming. Graham was asked to defend his work with Democrats and the Obama administration on legislation to address climate change, and how conservatives can trust his record on an issue that remains deeply unpopular with the Republican base.The South Carolina senator is one of the few Republicans who openly acknowledges that greenhouse gas emissions are contributing to global warming. Graham was asked to defend his work with Democrats and the Obama administration on legislation to address climate change, and how conservatives can trust his record on an issue that remains deeply unpopular with the Republican base.
Invoking a hypothetical matchup between himself and the Democratic frontrunner, Graham said:Invoking a hypothetical matchup between himself and the Democratic frontrunner, Graham said:
You can trust me to do the following – that when I get on the stage with Hillary Clinton, we won’t be debating about the science, but about the solutions.You can trust me to do the following – that when I get on the stage with Hillary Clinton, we won’t be debating about the science, but about the solutions.
In her world, cap-and-trade would dominate. That will destroy the economy in the name of helping the environment. In my world we’ll focus on energy independence and a clean environment. When it comes to fossil fuels, we’re going to find more here and use less. Over time we’re going to become energy independent.In her world, cap-and-trade would dominate. That will destroy the economy in the name of helping the environment. In my world we’ll focus on energy independence and a clean environment. When it comes to fossil fuels, we’re going to find more here and use less. Over time we’re going to become energy independent.
I am tired of sending $300bn overseas to buy oil from people who hate our guts. The choice between a weak economy and a strong environment is a false choice. That is not the choice I’ll offer America.I am tired of sending $300bn overseas to buy oil from people who hate our guts. The choice between a weak economy and a strong environment is a false choice. That is not the choice I’ll offer America.
Graham’s views on climate change put him in a minority of Republican candidates willing to embrace the role played by human activity in the warming of the planet. George Pataki, the former New York governor who also took part in the debate of low-tier candidates, has also acknowledged the science behind climate change.Graham has often argued that tackling climate change is critical to national security and energy independence, and would boost job creation in the United States. But his record is somewhat mixed – the senator worked on legislation with Democrats in the Senate in 2009 and 2010 to try and carve out a solution, but he ultimately abandoned the effort.Graham’s views on climate change put him in a minority of Republican candidates willing to embrace the role played by human activity in the warming of the planet. George Pataki, the former New York governor who also took part in the debate of low-tier candidates, has also acknowledged the science behind climate change.Graham has often argued that tackling climate change is critical to national security and energy independence, and would boost job creation in the United States. But his record is somewhat mixed – the senator worked on legislation with Democrats in the Senate in 2009 and 2010 to try and carve out a solution, but he ultimately abandoned the effort.
And then there was this, comparing himself later in the runners-up debate to Clinton, but emphasizing his differences in energy policy:And then there was this, comparing himself later in the runners-up debate to Clinton, but emphasizing his differences in energy policy:
She’s not going to build a Keystone pipeline. I will.She’s not going to build a Keystone pipeline. I will.
Graham has nonetheless been supported by some environmental groups. Most of his rivals, on the other hand, have been routinely hammered by environmentalists and Democrats for refusing to accept the science behind climate change – in large part because of the donations they receive from oil and gas companies.Graham has nonetheless been supported by some environmental groups. Most of his rivals, on the other hand, have been routinely hammered by environmentalists and Democrats for refusing to accept the science behind climate change – in large part because of the donations they receive from oil and gas companies.
—Sabrina Siddiqui—Sabrina Siddiqui
Updated at 5.59pm ETUpdated at 5.59pm ET
5.41pm ET22:415.41pm ET22:41
Graham is asked about the economy: “I think Americans are dying to work, you just need to give them a chance.”Graham is asked about the economy: “I think Americans are dying to work, you just need to give them a chance.”
He then turns the whole the answer into a diatribe against Hillary Clinton, saying if Americans want work, “don’t vote for Hillary Clinton, you’re not going to get it. She’s not going to rebuild Obamacare and replace it, I will. She’s not going to build the Keystone pipeline, I will.”He then turns the whole the answer into a diatribe against Hillary Clinton, saying if Americans want work, “don’t vote for Hillary Clinton, you’re not going to get it. She’s not going to rebuild Obamacare and replace it, I will. She’s not going to build the Keystone pipeline, I will.”
“I’m fluent in Clinton-speak, I’ve been doing this for 20 years.”“I’m fluent in Clinton-speak, I’ve been doing this for 20 years.”
Graham’s getting animated, and a ding interrupts him as he runs out of time.Graham’s getting animated, and a ding interrupts him as he runs out of time.
Santorum fields a question about whether Americans are too dependent on public benefits. He touts his record as a freshman senator (he only served one term) and then talks at length and without substance about making America “a manufacturing juggernaut.”Santorum fields a question about whether Americans are too dependent on public benefits. He touts his record as a freshman senator (he only served one term) and then talks at length and without substance about making America “a manufacturing juggernaut.”
Gilmore then talks about removing “the death tax”, stripping away regulations, and making the economy “explode”, which sounds more ominous than he likely meant.Gilmore then talks about removing “the death tax”, stripping away regulations, and making the economy “explode”, which sounds more ominous than he likely meant.
5.34pm ET22:345.34pm ET22:34
Santorum is asked about immigration. He spatters out a rambling, fairly insubstantial answer about his Italian immigrant father, about reform, and about how“we’re going to be different.”Santorum is asked about immigration. He spatters out a rambling, fairly insubstantial answer about his Italian immigrant father, about reform, and about how“we’re going to be different.”
Perry doesn’t want to hear it. “Here’s the interesting position on this. Americans are tired of hearing” about immigration, he says.Perry doesn’t want to hear it. “Here’s the interesting position on this. Americans are tired of hearing” about immigration, he says.
Why reform when you can shut it down, is Perry’s gist. He says he’ll throw in “strategic fencing”, 24/7 “aviation assets” that will fly “all the way from Tijuana”. He wants to know what everyone’s doing at the border, all the time.Why reform when you can shut it down, is Perry’s gist. He says he’ll throw in “strategic fencing”, 24/7 “aviation assets” that will fly “all the way from Tijuana”. He wants to know what everyone’s doing at the border, all the time.
No one mentions how well the strategy worked out in cold war Berlin or seventh-century China. The moderators cut to commercial with an electrifying promise to talk about the economy after the break.No one mentions how well the strategy worked out in cold war Berlin or seventh-century China. The moderators cut to commercial with an electrifying promise to talk about the economy after the break.
5.28pm ET22:285.28pm ET22:28
Asked about cybersecurity and the balance of national security and privacy, Fiorina for her part says: “I do not believe we have to wholesale destroy every American citizens’ privacy.”Asked about cybersecurity and the balance of national security and privacy, Fiorina for her part says: “I do not believe we have to wholesale destroy every American citizens’ privacy.”
She then recommends closer cooperation between the government and private tech companies – suggestions that sound awfully close to recent pitches from the Obama administration.She then recommends closer cooperation between the government and private tech companies – suggestions that sound awfully close to recent pitches from the Obama administration.
Updated at 5.29pm ETUpdated at 5.29pm ET
5.28pm ET22:285.28pm ET22:28
It’s worth noting that, even though the moderators’ questions are playing to the candidates’ schtick a bit more now (“Governor Jindal, Senator Graham, tell us about Islamic terror and why it’s bad”), the first battery was, essentially, “Tell us why you’re not forgettable.”It’s worth noting that, even though the moderators’ questions are playing to the candidates’ schtick a bit more now (“Governor Jindal, Senator Graham, tell us about Islamic terror and why it’s bad”), the first battery was, essentially, “Tell us why you’re not forgettable.”
Or as Matt Pearce of the LA Times put it:Or as Matt Pearce of the LA Times put it:
FOX NEWS REPUBLICAN DEBATE MODERATOR: You're terrible. Why are you terrible? CANDIDATE: We can make America great again.FOX NEWS REPUBLICAN DEBATE MODERATOR: You're terrible. Why are you terrible? CANDIDATE: We can make America great again.
The degree to which each candidate was asked to dispute his or her irrelevancy only increased as we went from right to left across the state, ending with former Governor Gilmore, who was asked whether Rory should have wound up with Dean, Jess or Logan.The degree to which each candidate was asked to dispute his or her irrelevancy only increased as we went from right to left across the state, ending with former Governor Gilmore, who was asked whether Rory should have wound up with Dean, Jess or Logan.
(He said Logan, and he’s wrong. It’s Jess. It’s always Jess.)(He said Logan, and he’s wrong. It’s Jess. It’s always Jess.)
-Jeb Lund-Jeb Lund
Updated at 6.00pm ETUpdated at 6.00pm ET
5.27pm ET22:275.27pm ET22:27
Pataki also takes a question about fighting terrorism. He opens by comparing radical preaching to ”shouting fire in a crowded theater” and says that “that is not protected speech”. (Not the best example.)Pataki also takes a question about fighting terrorism. He opens by comparing radical preaching to ”shouting fire in a crowded theater” and says that “that is not protected speech”. (Not the best example.)
He says he would “shut down” preaching in prisons or mosques if it encouraged “violence against Americans”.He says he would “shut down” preaching in prisons or mosques if it encouraged “violence against Americans”.
He then goes on to say that “we have got to destroy their training camps over there,” but doesn’t say how the US could root out such centers in Syria, for instance, where civil war has decimated the country and the US has extraordinarily little influence.He then goes on to say that “we have got to destroy their training camps over there,” but doesn’t say how the US could root out such centers in Syria, for instance, where civil war has decimated the country and the US has extraordinarily little influence.
Updated at 5.28pm ETUpdated at 5.28pm ET
5.21pm ET22:215.21pm ET22:21
A bit of context for the attention paid to “the elephant not in the room”, as a Fox moderator put it.A bit of context for the attention paid to “the elephant not in the room”, as a Fox moderator put it.
Trump's not even in this debate and he's the top target #GOPDebate pic.twitter.com/bO8HWO9fByTrump's not even in this debate and he's the top target #GOPDebate pic.twitter.com/bO8HWO9fBy
5.21pm ET22:215.21pm ET22:21
Independent Journal Review, a sort of rightwing Upworthy or Buzzfeed, has been getting some great access to Republican candidates. First they filmed Lindsay Graham destroying his Donald-Trump-compromised cell phone. Then they brought us Ted Cruz cooking “machine gun bacon”. Now, they bring us the pre-debate rituals of the GOP hopefuls.Independent Journal Review, a sort of rightwing Upworthy or Buzzfeed, has been getting some great access to Republican candidates. First they filmed Lindsay Graham destroying his Donald-Trump-compromised cell phone. Then they brought us Ted Cruz cooking “machine gun bacon”. Now, they bring us the pre-debate rituals of the GOP hopefuls.
Scott Walker goes running. Carly Fiorina, who obviously won’t actually be in the proper debate tonight, plays solitaire. Jeb Bush says that he calls his mom. But really it’s just a set-up for this joke: “Hey mom! I can’t say that on television!”Scott Walker goes running. Carly Fiorina, who obviously won’t actually be in the proper debate tonight, plays solitaire. Jeb Bush says that he calls his mom. But really it’s just a set-up for this joke: “Hey mom! I can’t say that on television!”
Maybe Barbara advised him to talk in sensible terms about immigration.Maybe Barbara advised him to talk in sensible terms about immigration.
-Adam Gabbatt-Adam Gabbatt
Updated at 6.00pm ETUpdated at 6.00pm ET
5.21pm ET22:215.21pm ET22:21
The moderators toss out a question about Isis and the threat of international terrorism. Jindal dodges it and accuses the president of betraying America with incorrect nomenclature. He says he, at least, will call Isis a group of “Islamic terror”.The moderators toss out a question about Isis and the threat of international terrorism. Jindal dodges it and accuses the president of betraying America with incorrect nomenclature. He says he, at least, will call Isis a group of “Islamic terror”.
Lindsey Graham is willing to go much, much further. He calls for ground troops in Iraq, and says that as president he would be willing to wage war for as long as necessary and at whatever cost in order to destroy Isis.Lindsey Graham is willing to go much, much further. He calls for ground troops in Iraq, and says that as president he would be willing to wage war for as long as necessary and at whatever cost in order to destroy Isis.
5.20pm ET22:205.20pm ET22:20
As I wrote earlier this week, all these candidates have so little time given the structure of these debates that nobody has much room or even incentive to get away from their stump speeches.As I wrote earlier this week, all these candidates have so little time given the structure of these debates that nobody has much room or even incentive to get away from their stump speeches.
And it appears – at least heading into this first medical-catheter ad break – that Fox’s moderators are playing to the candidates’ strengths and the core of their stumps.And it appears – at least heading into this first medical-catheter ad break – that Fox’s moderators are playing to the candidates’ strengths and the core of their stumps.
So, as shallow as it seems to focus on appearance and delivery, that may be the thin margin on which these candidates can win: A couple zingers can make a lot of difference for one person so long as he or she also sticks to the script, and the hoary cliché of “charisma” might be enough.So, as shallow as it seems to focus on appearance and delivery, that may be the thin margin on which these candidates can win: A couple zingers can make a lot of difference for one person so long as he or she also sticks to the script, and the hoary cliché of “charisma” might be enough.
Rick Perry came out flat (for him), Carly Fiorina was familiarly meticulous and sort of flatlined, Lindsey Graham fumbled through his reply, and even Jim Gilmore seems to be treating himself as an afterthought.Rick Perry came out flat (for him), Carly Fiorina was familiarly meticulous and sort of flatlined, Lindsey Graham fumbled through his reply, and even Jim Gilmore seems to be treating himself as an afterthought.
But Rick Santorum was sharp and effortless, and Bobby Jindal is reclaiming the old praise he used to get for sounding like a smart guy. That could be all they need.But Rick Santorum was sharp and effortless, and Bobby Jindal is reclaiming the old praise he used to get for sounding like a smart guy. That could be all they need.
Related: The secret to gaffe-free Republican debates: limit their speaking time | Jeb LundRelated: The secret to gaffe-free Republican debates: limit their speaking time | Jeb Lund
-Jeb Lund-Jeb Lund
Updated at 6.00pm ETUpdated at 6.00pm ET
5.17pm ET22:175.17pm ET22:17
Asked about Donald Trump, Rick Perry dives into a long diatribe about how the billionaire uses “his celebrity rather than his conservatism”.Asked about Donald Trump, Rick Perry dives into a long diatribe about how the billionaire uses “his celebrity rather than his conservatism”.
Perry turns his answer into one about immigration – the issue that in part rocketed Trump to the top of the polls.Perry turns his answer into one about immigration – the issue that in part rocketed Trump to the top of the polls.
“Nobody has done more,” Perry says “to deal with securing that border.” He says he’s sent “Texas ranger recon teams” and the national guard, but does not mention whether Chuck Norris took part in patrols.“Nobody has done more,” Perry says “to deal with securing that border.” He says he’s sent “Texas ranger recon teams” and the national guard, but does not mention whether Chuck Norris took part in patrols.
He adds that he looked Obama in the eye and said, “Mr. president, if you won’t secure the border, Texas will.”He adds that he looked Obama in the eye and said, “Mr. president, if you won’t secure the border, Texas will.”
“We need a president that doesn’t just talk a game but a president that gets results!”“We need a president that doesn’t just talk a game but a president that gets results!”
The Fox moderator gives him something of a blank look. “All right,” she says.The Fox moderator gives him something of a blank look. “All right,” she says.
Carly Fiorina meanwhile says about Trump’s lead: “good for him”Carly Fiorina meanwhile says about Trump’s lead: “good for him”
“I think he’s tapped into an anger that people feel,” she says “The political class has failed you and that’s just a fact.”“I think he’s tapped into an anger that people feel,” she says “The political class has failed you and that’s just a fact.”
5.12pm ET22:125.12pm ET22:12
Asked about “new blood” in politics by the moderators, New York governor George Pataki offers an astoundingly milquetoast speech about bringing people together. In retrospect, it’s not clear whether he said an actual sentence at all.Asked about “new blood” in politics by the moderators, New York governor George Pataki offers an astoundingly milquetoast speech about bringing people together. In retrospect, it’s not clear whether he said an actual sentence at all.
Then former Virginia governor Jim Gilmore introduces himself, forgettably.Then former Virginia governor Jim Gilmore introduces himself, forgettably.
5.10pm ET22:105.10pm ET22:10
5.10pm ET22:105.10pm ET22:10
South Carolina senator Lindsey Graham fields a question about climate change with a slow, rather awkward response – he’s visibly nervous, despite innumerable performances on cable shows and several happy ripostes to Donald Trump in recent weeks.South Carolina senator Lindsey Graham fields a question about climate change with a slow, rather awkward response – he’s visibly nervous, despite innumerable performances on cable shows and several happy ripostes to Donald Trump in recent weeks.
As for the question, Graham says that Hillary Clinton will “destroy the economy” with her ideas about climate change. “In her world, cap and trade will dominate,” he says. “When it comes to fossil fuels, we will find more here and use less.”As for the question, Graham says that Hillary Clinton will “destroy the economy” with her ideas about climate change. “In her world, cap and trade will dominate,” he says. “When it comes to fossil fuels, we will find more here and use less.”
5.07pm ET22:075.07pm ET22:07
A question to Louisiana governor Bobby Jindal notes that he’s floundering in the polls.A question to Louisiana governor Bobby Jindal notes that he’s floundering in the polls.
Jindal doesn’t deny it, and rattles off an answer thanking the Fox News host for being kind enough to let him on camera.Jindal doesn’t deny it, and rattles off an answer thanking the Fox News host for being kind enough to let him on camera.
“I think the American people are looking for real leadership, and that’s what I’ve done for Louisiana, and that’s what I’ll do for America,” he says.“I think the American people are looking for real leadership, and that’s what I’ve done for Louisiana, and that’s what I’ll do for America,” he says.
5.06pm ET22:065.06pm ET22:06
The next question is for Carly Fiorina, the former CEO of Hewlett Packard.The next question is for Carly Fiorina, the former CEO of Hewlett Packard.
“I think to be commander-in-chief in the 21st century requires someone who understands how the economy works,” she says, mixing up the president’s military authorities with the office’s few powers over the economy.“I think to be commander-in-chief in the 21st century requires someone who understands how the economy works,” she says, mixing up the president’s military authorities with the office’s few powers over the economy.
Nonetheless, Fiorina continues, she “understands bureaucracies” and “technology”, and she insists that’s enough.Nonetheless, Fiorina continues, she “understands bureaucracies” and “technology”, and she insists that’s enough.
Updated at 5.07pm ETUpdated at 5.07pm ET
5.03pm ET22:035.03pm ET22:03
First question goes to Rick Perry, asking him why voters should trust him when, four years ago, he couldn’t remember the name of a government agency he wanted to abolish.First question goes to Rick Perry, asking him why voters should trust him when, four years ago, he couldn’t remember the name of a government agency he wanted to abolish.
After those four years of looking back and being prepared, the preparation to be the most powerful individual in the world requires an extraordinary amount of work. Not just having been the governor of the 12th largest economy in the world.After those four years of looking back and being prepared, the preparation to be the most powerful individual in the world requires an extraordinary amount of work. Not just having been the governor of the 12th largest economy in the world.
He talks up his jobs record, and runs far away saying what he might actually do as president.He talks up his jobs record, and runs far away saying what he might actually do as president.
Updated at 5.04pm ETUpdated at 5.04pm ET
5.02pm ET22:025.02pm ET22:02
The candidates are making statements just by how they arrive, and it’s very exciting. Trump, naturally, has his own plane, the TRUMP plane. Carly Fiorina has the one she shipped tens of thousands of jobs overseas with. Rand Paul is arriving in a train made of Rearden steel. Rick Santorum is pulling up to the front in a buckboard driven by Foster Freiss. And Ted Cruz is descending in a beautiful, fanciful blimp made of sewn-together Constitutions and inflated by him delivering just one speech into it. It was about America. That’s what it’s about tonight, folks, it’s about America.The candidates are making statements just by how they arrive, and it’s very exciting. Trump, naturally, has his own plane, the TRUMP plane. Carly Fiorina has the one she shipped tens of thousands of jobs overseas with. Rand Paul is arriving in a train made of Rearden steel. Rick Santorum is pulling up to the front in a buckboard driven by Foster Freiss. And Ted Cruz is descending in a beautiful, fanciful blimp made of sewn-together Constitutions and inflated by him delivering just one speech into it. It was about America. That’s what it’s about tonight, folks, it’s about America.
Seriously, though, the Trump jet is perfect.Seriously, though, the Trump jet is perfect.
-Jeb Lund-Jeb Lund
Updated at 6.01pm ETUpdated at 6.01pm ET
5.01pm ET22:015.01pm ET22:01
Consolation debate begins!Consolation debate begins!
Live in the Quicken Loans Arena in Cleveland, the seven candidates who failed to make it into the main debate are at their podiums and smiling painfully into the glare of camera lights as the Fox moderators introduce them.Live in the Quicken Loans Arena in Cleveland, the seven candidates who failed to make it into the main debate are at their podiums and smiling painfully into the glare of camera lights as the Fox moderators introduce them.
Each will have a minute to answer a question and 30-second rebuttal opportunities.Each will have a minute to answer a question and 30-second rebuttal opportunities.
4.51pm ET21:514.51pm ET21:51
A spokesperson for Kentucky senator Rand Paul has found a bit of distinctive flair lying around a Cleveland hotel. My colleague Paul Lewis suspects that someone might get fired for the slip up…A spokesperson for Kentucky senator Rand Paul has found a bit of distinctive flair lying around a Cleveland hotel. My colleague Paul Lewis suspects that someone might get fired for the slip up…
Someone left their closing statement for tonight's @FoxNews debate in the hotel printer.Can you guess who?@LaCivitaC pic.twitter.com/p6rWhnFGAUSomeone left their closing statement for tonight's @FoxNews debate in the hotel printer.Can you guess who?@LaCivitaC pic.twitter.com/p6rWhnFGAU
The man of the hour himself meanwhile has just landed and disembarked off his charter jet in typically voluble fashion.The man of the hour himself meanwhile has just landed and disembarked off his charter jet in typically voluble fashion.
4.40pm ET21:404.40pm ET21:40
Welcome to our live coverage of the first debates in the race to become the 2016 Republican nominee for president. Donald Trump will stand center stage at the main event in Cleveland next to Jeb Bush, Scott Walker and seven other Republicans eager to look good in front of American voters – or at least eager to avoid humiliating mistakes, awkward moments and the wrath of a certain billionaire.Welcome to our live coverage of the first debates in the race to become the 2016 Republican nominee for president. Donald Trump will stand center stage at the main event in Cleveland next to Jeb Bush, Scott Walker and seven other Republicans eager to look good in front of American voters – or at least eager to avoid humiliating mistakes, awkward moments and the wrath of a certain billionaire.
The debate, scheduled by Fox News for 9pm ET, will follow an early debate for the candidates who failed to break into the top 10 of national polls – the kids’ table contenders of the primary election so far.The debate, scheduled by Fox News for 9pm ET, will follow an early debate for the candidates who failed to break into the top 10 of national polls – the kids’ table contenders of the primary election so far.
The main debate will feature Trump, former Florida governor Bush, Wisconsin governor Walker, senators Ted Cruz, Rand Paul and Marco Rubio, retired neurosurgeon Ben Carson, former Arkansas governor Mike Huckabee, Ohio governor John Kasich and New Jersey governor Chris Christie.The main debate will feature Trump, former Florida governor Bush, Wisconsin governor Walker, senators Ted Cruz, Rand Paul and Marco Rubio, retired neurosurgeon Ben Carson, former Arkansas governor Mike Huckabee, Ohio governor John Kasich and New Jersey governor Chris Christie.
The early debate includes South Carolina senator Lindsey Graham, Louisiana governor Bobby Jindal, former governor Rick Perry, former CEO Carly Fiorina, former governor George Pataki, former senator Rick Santorum and former governor Jim Gilmore.The early debate includes South Carolina senator Lindsey Graham, Louisiana governor Bobby Jindal, former governor Rick Perry, former CEO Carly Fiorina, former governor George Pataki, former senator Rick Santorum and former governor Jim Gilmore.
Follow along for updates on every the quips, blunders and bombast, analysis on the bouts from Guardian reporters and columnists, and reporting from Cleveland by my colleague Paul Lewis (@paullewis).Follow along for updates on every the quips, blunders and bombast, analysis on the bouts from Guardian reporters and columnists, and reporting from Cleveland by my colleague Paul Lewis (@paullewis).