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| Ministers confirm Australia will be involved in military action in Syria for years – politics live | Ministers confirm Australia will be involved in military action in Syria for years – politics live |
| (35 minutes later) | |
| 12.39am BST00:39 | |
| In a spirit of fairness and in recognition that I am not, in fact, a professional beer reviewer, I’ll link you to further and betters about Albo’s beer. Chris Shanahan, the Canberra Times beverage reviewer, has apparently described it as a sessionable beer, where you can sit down and knock back a few. Easy to drink, and not bland. | |
| I’d agree with not bland. | |
| 12.33am BST00:33 | |
| I see from tweets from Fairfax media’s photographer Andrew Meares that the prime minister has participated in something called a slap drill in the training session. That sounds vaguely ominous. | |
| How’s this for a study in concentration? | |
| 12.19am BST00:19 | |
| Meanwhile, to our north. | |
| Tony Abbott is at the Pacific Islands Forum today. Climate change is expected to be a focus of the talks. | |
| 12.14am BST00:14 | 12.14am BST00:14 |
| A sample of commentary concerning events of the past 24 hours. | A sample of commentary concerning events of the past 24 hours. |
| Lenore Taylor, Guardian Australia | Lenore Taylor, Guardian Australia |
| Lenore’s analysis looks at the implications of the shift in community sentiment about refugees. | Lenore’s analysis looks at the implications of the shift in community sentiment about refugees. |
| Where will it end, this unleashing of compassion towards refugees – previously characterised as people whose flight had to be stopped, at all costs, by secret military-style operations, people who should be “waiting” in a non-existent “queue”? It was pictures – of mass human exodus, of tiny Alan Kurdi washed up on a beach like jetsam – that prompted the outpouring of compassion that seemed to change the Abbott government’s mind on the Syrian crisis. It was stories – of mental health impacts and unremitting despair – that forced the 2005 change on temporary protection visas. “Operational secrecy” means the pictures and stories of those caught up in Australia’s current border policies are difficult to provide. | Where will it end, this unleashing of compassion towards refugees – previously characterised as people whose flight had to be stopped, at all costs, by secret military-style operations, people who should be “waiting” in a non-existent “queue”? It was pictures – of mass human exodus, of tiny Alan Kurdi washed up on a beach like jetsam – that prompted the outpouring of compassion that seemed to change the Abbott government’s mind on the Syrian crisis. It was stories – of mental health impacts and unremitting despair – that forced the 2005 change on temporary protection visas. “Operational secrecy” means the pictures and stories of those caught up in Australia’s current border policies are difficult to provide. |
| Laura Tingle, Australian Financial Review (paywalled) | Laura Tingle, Australian Financial Review (paywalled) |
| Laura’s analysis is in similar territory, looking at the public shift and the shift in conservative sentiment. | Laura’s analysis is in similar territory, looking at the public shift and the shift in conservative sentiment. |
| The political implications of the turnaround are as stunning as the turnaround itself. Domestically, it reinforces the fact that Labor’s change of position on boats in July has not only neutralised an issue that dogged the opposition, but given both sides space to look more generous. Just as important, however, has been how the conservative side of politics has trod in the past week. The leadership has come from figures like Mike Baird and Jeff Kennett outside federal politics and an eclectic range of figures inside it, notably Western Sydney backbencher Craig Laundy and the Nationals’ Barnaby Joyce. | The political implications of the turnaround are as stunning as the turnaround itself. Domestically, it reinforces the fact that Labor’s change of position on boats in July has not only neutralised an issue that dogged the opposition, but given both sides space to look more generous. Just as important, however, has been how the conservative side of politics has trod in the past week. The leadership has come from figures like Mike Baird and Jeff Kennett outside federal politics and an eclectic range of figures inside it, notably Western Sydney backbencher Craig Laundy and the Nationals’ Barnaby Joyce. |
| Michael Gordon, The Age | Michael Gordon, The Age |
| Good as far as it goes, says Michael, but how about the Syrians already here, in limbo. | Good as far as it goes, says Michael, but how about the Syrians already here, in limbo. |
| (Tony Abbott) links the commitment to his success in stopping the boats, arguing that this eased the pressure on the humanitarian program and made it possible to endorse the increase. But there is another connection to Sovereign Borders that he will be less willing to confront – one that is utterly inconsistent with the “tradition of decency” in the Australian character. It is that those refugees living a life in limbo without hope on Nauru and Manus Island are no different to those we are now moving speedily to protect. That is something that should also trouble the nation’s soul. | (Tony Abbott) links the commitment to his success in stopping the boats, arguing that this eased the pressure on the humanitarian program and made it possible to endorse the increase. But there is another connection to Sovereign Borders that he will be less willing to confront – one that is utterly inconsistent with the “tradition of decency” in the Australian character. It is that those refugees living a life in limbo without hope on Nauru and Manus Island are no different to those we are now moving speedily to protect. That is something that should also trouble the nation’s soul. |
| Greg Sheridan, The Australian (paywalled) | Greg Sheridan, The Australian (paywalled) |
| Good one Tony, says Greg. | Good one Tony, says Greg. |
| Tony Abbott got the policy and the politics of Syria right yesterday. He was a bit slow off the mark at the weekend but he quickly identified this shortcoming, read the community sentiment accurately and drove government processes to produce a credible policy response. | Tony Abbott got the policy and the politics of Syria right yesterday. He was a bit slow off the mark at the weekend but he quickly identified this shortcoming, read the community sentiment accurately and drove government processes to produce a credible policy response. |
| Bernard Keane, Crikey (paywalled) | Bernard Keane, Crikey (paywalled) |
| Bernard says this change of heart must not discriminate against people who need our help. | Bernard says this change of heart must not discriminate against people who need our help. |
| The limitation of help to “persecuted minorities” appears to rule out the approximately 60% of Syrians who are Sunni Muslims and who have been disproportionately targeted by the regime of Bashar al-Assad. Christians, Yazidis and other religious minorities in Syria have been targeted by Islamic State — but so too have Shiite Muslims, who have been massacred in their hundreds, and probably thousands, by IS across Syria and Iraq (especially the latter). And Kurds, who are predominantly Sunni, are at war with IS across Syria and Iraq (no one has spoken up for atheists, who are also targeted by IS). | The limitation of help to “persecuted minorities” appears to rule out the approximately 60% of Syrians who are Sunni Muslims and who have been disproportionately targeted by the regime of Bashar al-Assad. Christians, Yazidis and other religious minorities in Syria have been targeted by Islamic State — but so too have Shiite Muslims, who have been massacred in their hundreds, and probably thousands, by IS across Syria and Iraq (especially the latter). And Kurds, who are predominantly Sunni, are at war with IS across Syria and Iraq (no one has spoken up for atheists, who are also targeted by IS). |
| 11.56pm BST23:56 | 11.56pm BST23:56 |
| The attorney-general George Brandis has written a column in The Australian this morning addressing the legality of Australia’s actions in Syria. | The attorney-general George Brandis has written a column in The Australian this morning addressing the legality of Australia’s actions in Syria. |
| This is his core reasoning. | This is his core reasoning. |
| International law recognises the principle of collective self-defence may extend to interventions beyond the borders of the requesting state, where four conditions are met. | International law recognises the principle of collective self-defence may extend to interventions beyond the borders of the requesting state, where four conditions are met. |
| First, the requesting state must have been subject to, or be imminently at risk of, armed attacks from insurgent elements based beyond its borders. Second, there must be no effective means reasonably available to address those attacks or imminent threats, other than the use of force. Third, the host state (in this case, Syria) must have demonstrated, by express declaration or conduct, that it is unwilling or unable to restrain the attacks emanating from within its borders. Finally, the state under attack must have requested the assistance of other states to defend itself. | First, the requesting state must have been subject to, or be imminently at risk of, armed attacks from insurgent elements based beyond its borders. Second, there must be no effective means reasonably available to address those attacks or imminent threats, other than the use of force. Third, the host state (in this case, Syria) must have demonstrated, by express declaration or conduct, that it is unwilling or unable to restrain the attacks emanating from within its borders. Finally, the state under attack must have requested the assistance of other states to defend itself. |
| All four of those conditions are clearly satisfied in this case. | All four of those conditions are clearly satisfied in this case. |
| 11.51pm BST23:51 | 11.51pm BST23:51 |
| Strong means strong. | Strong means strong. |
| 11.39pm BST23:39 | 11.39pm BST23:39 |
| Shalailah Medhora | Shalailah Medhora |
| As well as addressing the Syrian refugee issue, the social services minister, Scott Morrison, has vowed to reintroduce legislation that would force jobseekers under the age of 25 to wait an extra four weeks before accessing the dole, after the measure was shot down by the Senate on Wednesday. “This will be coming back because we believe in it,” Morrison told ABC Radio this morning. | As well as addressing the Syrian refugee issue, the social services minister, Scott Morrison, has vowed to reintroduce legislation that would force jobseekers under the age of 25 to wait an extra four weeks before accessing the dole, after the measure was shot down by the Senate on Wednesday. “This will be coming back because we believe in it,” Morrison told ABC Radio this morning. |
| Just a bit of background on this particular measure. In its first budget in 2014, the government introduced a change that would have made under 30s wait six months before accessing unemployment benefits. There was a public outcry. The government then watered the 2014 measure down to four weeks. But even the watered-down version failed to secure the support of Labor, the Greens, and the majority of the Senate crossbench. | Just a bit of background on this particular measure. In its first budget in 2014, the government introduced a change that would have made under 30s wait six months before accessing unemployment benefits. There was a public outcry. The government then watered the 2014 measure down to four weeks. But even the watered-down version failed to secure the support of Labor, the Greens, and the majority of the Senate crossbench. |
| Updated at 12.14am BST | Updated at 12.14am BST |
| 11.35pm BST23:35 | 11.35pm BST23:35 |
| Speaking of Mr Bowers, he thought we could all use a bit of spring zen this morning. Isn’t this gorgeous? | Speaking of Mr Bowers, he thought we could all use a bit of spring zen this morning. Isn’t this gorgeous? |
| Updated at 12.14am BST | Updated at 12.14am BST |
| 11.31pm BST23:31 | 11.31pm BST23:31 |
| Joe Hockey has also done an interview on Sky News about the economy this morning. Unfortunately the treasurer has been squeezed out of my morning coverage thus far because he appeared in the middle of Kevin Andrews’ second and Julie Bishop’s third interview. | Joe Hockey has also done an interview on Sky News about the economy this morning. Unfortunately the treasurer has been squeezed out of my morning coverage thus far because he appeared in the middle of Kevin Andrews’ second and Julie Bishop’s third interview. |
| Here too is Julie Bishop – either enhancing the treasurer’s photo opportunity, or making off with it – depending on your point of view. | Here too is Julie Bishop – either enhancing the treasurer’s photo opportunity, or making off with it – depending on your point of view. |
| Mike Bowers caught this photobomb just outside the Sky studios. | Mike Bowers caught this photobomb just outside the Sky studios. |
| Updated at 12.13am BST | Updated at 12.13am BST |
| 11.19pm BST23:19 | 11.19pm BST23:19 |
| Triggs concerned about bombing Syria, and a two-tiered refugee system. Scott Morrison says nope, nope, nope | Triggs concerned about bombing Syria, and a two-tiered refugee system. Scott Morrison says nope, nope, nope |
| The Human Rights Commission president Gillian Triggs has been on the ABC addressing the point that was put to Julie Bishop in the last post. Triggs says first up yesterday’s decision by the Abbott government to bomb Syria was a matter of concern. It was inevitable increased military action would increase the refugee flow. | The Human Rights Commission president Gillian Triggs has been on the ABC addressing the point that was put to Julie Bishop in the last post. Triggs says first up yesterday’s decision by the Abbott government to bomb Syria was a matter of concern. It was inevitable increased military action would increase the refugee flow. |
| She’s also concerned that the 12,000 people coming from Syria will be subject to completely different arrangements than Syrians already here. The new cohort would be settled permanently, the people here now would get temporary protection visas. | She’s also concerned that the 12,000 people coming from Syria will be subject to completely different arrangements than Syrians already here. The new cohort would be settled permanently, the people here now would get temporary protection visas. |
| Gillian Triggs: | Gillian Triggs: |
| What we are doing is creating a double system. | What we are doing is creating a double system. |
| Triggs says the government needs to sort this out, given the majority of Syrians already here will pass the refugee test. | Triggs says the government needs to sort this out, given the majority of Syrians already here will pass the refugee test. |
| I think, frankly, we have to be practical about this. (They) should be treated equally. | I think, frankly, we have to be practical about this. (They) should be treated equally. |
| The social services minister, Scott Morrison, doesn’t sound as though he’s interested in being practical. He’s on the ABC now. | The social services minister, Scott Morrison, doesn’t sound as though he’s interested in being practical. He’s on the ABC now. |
| The government hasn’t made a decision to change our border protection policy. What we’ve decided to do is to respond to a genuine refugee and humanitarian crisis in the Middle East. And that’s what we’re responding to and we will be helping those who are in that zone. That’s what we will be doing. | The government hasn’t made a decision to change our border protection policy. What we’ve decided to do is to respond to a genuine refugee and humanitarian crisis in the Middle East. And that’s what we’re responding to and we will be helping those who are in that zone. That’s what we will be doing. |
| Those who have come here courtesy of people smugglers, there is a process in place for those individuals. And those processes will be followed. | Those who have come here courtesy of people smugglers, there is a process in place for those individuals. And those processes will be followed. |
| We’re not reversing our strong border protection policies. We’re extending the most generous humanitarian responses the country has seen. | We’re not reversing our strong border protection policies. We’re extending the most generous humanitarian responses the country has seen. |
| Updated at 12.12am BST | Updated at 12.12am BST |
| 11.09pm BST23:09 | 11.09pm BST23:09 |
| A bit more from Kevin Andrews and Julie Bishop from their morning media blitz. | A bit more from Kevin Andrews and Julie Bishop from their morning media blitz. |
| Q: So what will success in this fight look like? | Q: So what will success in this fight look like? |
| Kevin Andrews on the Today show. | Kevin Andrews on the Today show. |
| A regime in the Middle East that doesn’t commit genocide against its own people and a regime in the Middle East that doesn’t export terrorism else where around the world, including, unfortunately, here to Australia. | A regime in the Middle East that doesn’t commit genocide against its own people and a regime in the Middle East that doesn’t export terrorism else where around the world, including, unfortunately, here to Australia. |
| Julie Bishop was asked on Radio National Breakfast given the new generosity towards Syrian refugees, why don’t we bring Syrians on Nauru or Manus Island to the mainland? She said Australia was responding currently to a particular crisis. Under the arrangements confirmed yesterday, the Australian government would decide who comes here and the circumstances in which they come. (Yes, I know that was John Howard, not Julie Bishop, but she was echoing the Howard rationale). Bishop said Australian officials will select the Syrians from refugee camps – the people smugglers would not select the Syrians. | Julie Bishop was asked on Radio National Breakfast given the new generosity towards Syrian refugees, why don’t we bring Syrians on Nauru or Manus Island to the mainland? She said Australia was responding currently to a particular crisis. Under the arrangements confirmed yesterday, the Australian government would decide who comes here and the circumstances in which they come. (Yes, I know that was John Howard, not Julie Bishop, but she was echoing the Howard rationale). Bishop said Australian officials will select the Syrians from refugee camps – the people smugglers would not select the Syrians. |
| 10.52pm BST22:52 | 10.52pm BST22:52 |
| Good morning fine people and welcome to Thursday in Canberra. Too early for corn beer? Having now tried it, I’d argue it’s always too early for corn beer. | Good morning fine people and welcome to Thursday in Canberra. Too early for corn beer? Having now tried it, I’d argue it’s always too early for corn beer. |
| Fear not, nobody associated with Politics Live is drinking corn beer at 8am. These pictures are from last night. | Fear not, nobody associated with Politics Live is drinking corn beer at 8am. These pictures are from last night. |
| Labor’s Anthony Albanese on Wednesday night ventured out of the parliamentary precinct to launch a beer that has been named after him. The brew is much like the man, goes down easy, but leaves a feisty aftertaste, rather like fighting tories in your mouth. Disconcerting to say the least. | Labor’s Anthony Albanese on Wednesday night ventured out of the parliamentary precinct to launch a beer that has been named after him. The brew is much like the man, goes down easy, but leaves a feisty aftertaste, rather like fighting tories in your mouth. Disconcerting to say the least. |
| Perhaps I needed the memory of the beer to possess the strength to tune into Alan Jones at 7.10am. Alan has been editorialising thunderously and periodically letting the trade minister, Andrew Robb, get a word in about the China free trade deal. He thinks opponents of the deal are running rings around the government. | Perhaps I needed the memory of the beer to possess the strength to tune into Alan Jones at 7.10am. Alan has been editorialising thunderously and periodically letting the trade minister, Andrew Robb, get a word in about the China free trade deal. He thinks opponents of the deal are running rings around the government. |
| Alan Jones: | Alan Jones: |
| Why don’t you put the boot in? | Why don’t you put the boot in? |
| Andrew Robb: | Andrew Robb: |
| We’ve been attempting to. | We’ve been attempting to. |
| Alan Jones: | Alan Jones: |
| You aren’t getting your point across. | You aren’t getting your point across. |
| Robb, possibly confused why Alan Jones is suddenly supportive of free trade, and attempting to help the government on the China deal, explains the government is up against millions in advertising and trade union robocalls. The union advertising overwhelms, Robb says. Alan knows this. Alan has done some research and ascertained that unions have unlimited funds because they collect dues from their members. But despite these challenges, one must make oneself heard over the clamour. | Robb, possibly confused why Alan Jones is suddenly supportive of free trade, and attempting to help the government on the China deal, explains the government is up against millions in advertising and trade union robocalls. The union advertising overwhelms, Robb says. Alan knows this. Alan has done some research and ascertained that unions have unlimited funds because they collect dues from their members. But despite these challenges, one must make oneself heard over the clamour. |
| Alan Jones: | Alan Jones: |
| Well, introduce truth in advertising legislation. | Well, introduce truth in advertising legislation. |
| Andrew Robb: | Andrew Robb: |
| Those things have been tried. | Those things have been tried. |
| As diverting as this conversation is, Syria of course remains the main game in national politics after the big announcements yesterday: Australia will shortly take part in airstrikes in Syria, and we will take 12,000 refugees from the region. | As diverting as this conversation is, Syria of course remains the main game in national politics after the big announcements yesterday: Australia will shortly take part in airstrikes in Syria, and we will take 12,000 refugees from the region. |
| On other open microphones, Robb’s colleagues Kevin Andrews and Julie Bishop are softening up the public for the long haul for military engagement in Iraq and Syria. The defence minister, Kevin Andrews, has told NewsRadio the conflict will take a couple of years, or so. Then Andrews told the Nine Network Australia would probably be there for a number of years. | On other open microphones, Robb’s colleagues Kevin Andrews and Julie Bishop are softening up the public for the long haul for military engagement in Iraq and Syria. The defence minister, Kevin Andrews, has told NewsRadio the conflict will take a couple of years, or so. Then Andrews told the Nine Network Australia would probably be there for a number of years. |
| Two or three years, I can’t say in exact terms. | Two or three years, I can’t say in exact terms. |
| On Sky News, the foreign minister, Julie Bishop, says the government’s focus is not arbitrary timeframes but taking out Daesh. | On Sky News, the foreign minister, Julie Bishop, says the government’s focus is not arbitrary timeframes but taking out Daesh. |
| We’ve always spoken about our involvement in Iraq in terms of years, not months or days. We should be thinking in terms of years, not months. | We’ve always spoken about our involvement in Iraq in terms of years, not months or days. We should be thinking in terms of years, not months. |
| So noted, we march on into Thursday. The comments thread is open for your business. We are up and at ’em on the Twits. He’s @mpbowers and I’m @murpharoo | So noted, we march on into Thursday. The comments thread is open for your business. We are up and at ’em on the Twits. He’s @mpbowers and I’m @murpharoo |
| Buckle up. Here comes Thursday. | Buckle up. Here comes Thursday. |
| Updated at 11.53pm BST | Updated at 11.53pm BST |