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| Battle over boots on ground in Syria, China trade deal debate heats up – politics live | Battle over boots on ground in Syria, China trade deal debate heats up – politics live |
| (17 days later) | |
| 9.04am BST | 9.04am BST |
| 09:04 | 09:04 |
| Farewell fine friends | Farewell fine friends |
| It is time to pull up the stumps and throw them in the fireplace. Perhaps that’s too extreme. In any case it is time to stop the updates. Thank you for your company all week. I’ll be on the couch on Insiders this weekend for another wrap of the parliamentary week in another form if you haven’t had quite enough of my shouting. The wonderful, calm and always reasonable Gabrielle Chan will be back driving the Politics Live bus next week. | It is time to pull up the stumps and throw them in the fireplace. Perhaps that’s too extreme. In any case it is time to stop the updates. Thank you for your company all week. I’ll be on the couch on Insiders this weekend for another wrap of the parliamentary week in another form if you haven’t had quite enough of my shouting. The wonderful, calm and always reasonable Gabrielle Chan will be back driving the Politics Live bus next week. |
| Today, Thursday: | Today, Thursday: |
| There was more, but that’s the main overview. Have a great weekend. Hug your loved ones. See you all round like a rissole. | There was more, but that’s the main overview. Have a great weekend. Hug your loved ones. See you all round like a rissole. |
| 8.39am BST | 8.39am BST |
| 08:39 | 08:39 |
| Melissa Davey | Melissa Davey |
| Murph can’t post her summary yet, I have a contribution! As she’s mentioned, the senate legal committee is currently hearing submissions on the matter of a popular vote, in the form of a plebiscite or referendum, on same sex marriage in Australia. The hearing is expected to go until about 9.30pm tonight, with senators hearing from 28 experts separated into six groups; legal and policy experts, religious organisations, LGBTI organisations and support groups, psychologists, constitutional law experts, and staff from the Australian electoral commission. | Murph can’t post her summary yet, I have a contribution! As she’s mentioned, the senate legal committee is currently hearing submissions on the matter of a popular vote, in the form of a plebiscite or referendum, on same sex marriage in Australia. The hearing is expected to go until about 9.30pm tonight, with senators hearing from 28 experts separated into six groups; legal and policy experts, religious organisations, LGBTI organisations and support groups, psychologists, constitutional law experts, and staff from the Australian electoral commission. |
| So far we’ve heard from the legal and policy group and have almost finished hearing from the religious organisations, which includes the Australian Christian Lobby’s Lyle Shelton and the Australian Family Association’s Terri Kelleher. The majority of legal and policy experts have argued against a plebiscite or referendum, because federal parliament already has the power under the constitution to legislate for it. | So far we’ve heard from the legal and policy group and have almost finished hearing from the religious organisations, which includes the Australian Christian Lobby’s Lyle Shelton and the Australian Family Association’s Terri Kelleher. The majority of legal and policy experts have argued against a plebiscite or referendum, because federal parliament already has the power under the constitution to legislate for it. |
| Associate Professor Paula Gerber, deputy director of the Castan Centre for Human Rights Law, said that a plebiscite was likely to harm children raised by LGBTI couples and LGBTI youth generally because of the sustained, public debate that would ensue. “To have a publicly sanctioned campaign that allows vitriol against these two groups of children is likely to cause them significant harm,” she said. “We saw the sort of dialogue that ensued from the Gayby Baby film that ensured in NSW, and for that to be replicated on a national level is not going to be in the best interest of children and for that reason a plebiscite on the issue should not be held.” Meanwhile, the majority of catholic and christian groups have told the senate a popular vote was the best way forward. “With all due respect,” she told the senators not a lot of children tuned in to parliament. | Associate Professor Paula Gerber, deputy director of the Castan Centre for Human Rights Law, said that a plebiscite was likely to harm children raised by LGBTI couples and LGBTI youth generally because of the sustained, public debate that would ensue. “To have a publicly sanctioned campaign that allows vitriol against these two groups of children is likely to cause them significant harm,” she said. “We saw the sort of dialogue that ensued from the Gayby Baby film that ensured in NSW, and for that to be replicated on a national level is not going to be in the best interest of children and for that reason a plebiscite on the issue should not be held.” Meanwhile, the majority of catholic and christian groups have told the senate a popular vote was the best way forward. “With all due respect,” she told the senators not a lot of children tuned in to parliament. |
| Lyle Shelton, managing director of the Australian Christian Lobby, said parliaments had already given the issue a “pretty good go”. It was time for the public to have a say, he said, and religious groups should not be censored in the lead-up to a vote, he said. The groups said the media had censored their ads opposing same-sex marriage, refusing to run them. “We need to break shackles of political correctness around the debate,” Shelton said. “Many are fearful they will be labelled as bigots. This is not a debate against people or individuals. It’s a debate about what marriage is, what family structure is, and what is in the interest of children. There should be freedom in the discussion to advocate for this side of the debate. | Lyle Shelton, managing director of the Australian Christian Lobby, said parliaments had already given the issue a “pretty good go”. It was time for the public to have a say, he said, and religious groups should not be censored in the lead-up to a vote, he said. The groups said the media had censored their ads opposing same-sex marriage, refusing to run them. “We need to break shackles of political correctness around the debate,” Shelton said. “Many are fearful they will be labelled as bigots. This is not a debate against people or individuals. It’s a debate about what marriage is, what family structure is, and what is in the interest of children. There should be freedom in the discussion to advocate for this side of the debate. |
| Updated | Updated |
| at 8.39am BST | at 8.39am BST |
| 8.33am BST | 8.33am BST |
| 08:33 | 08:33 |
| Now Eric | Now Eric |
| I wondered whether someone other than a nit-picking uber nerd like me would take issue with the government senate leader, Eric Abetz, transcending economics at his unemployment data press conference today. If you had to identify another random nit-picking uber nerd prowling around the parliamentary precinct, who would you nominate? Probably one with a serious economics qualification, (unlike my baby economics, which concluded in a formal education sense at year twelve.) | I wondered whether someone other than a nit-picking uber nerd like me would take issue with the government senate leader, Eric Abetz, transcending economics at his unemployment data press conference today. If you had to identify another random nit-picking uber nerd prowling around the parliamentary precinct, who would you nominate? Probably one with a serious economics qualification, (unlike my baby economics, which concluded in a formal education sense at year twelve.) |
| I raised my eyebrows when Abetz said earlier today there was no unemployment number that was acceptable, not 1, 2, 3, 4, 5 or 6%. While we get the Abetz vibe, it was somewhat off piste for a minister serving in an economic portfolio. Take the microphone Andrew Leigh, shadow assistant treasurer, and former economics professor, who explains the issue with a teacher’s precision. | I raised my eyebrows when Abetz said earlier today there was no unemployment number that was acceptable, not 1, 2, 3, 4, 5 or 6%. While we get the Abetz vibe, it was somewhat off piste for a minister serving in an economic portfolio. Take the microphone Andrew Leigh, shadow assistant treasurer, and former economics professor, who explains the issue with a teacher’s precision. |
| The employment numbers will always record some level of unemployment because of workers moving between jobs. This frictional unemployment can be found in even the healthiest economy. Economists like to argue over what rate should be considered ‘full employment’. But almost no-one except minister Abetz seriously believes the headline unemployment number can ever dip below 3% without triggering a sharp rise in inflation. Structural unemployment counts the number of people who are excluded from the jobs market because there are more people looking for work than there are jobs available. | The employment numbers will always record some level of unemployment because of workers moving between jobs. This frictional unemployment can be found in even the healthiest economy. Economists like to argue over what rate should be considered ‘full employment’. But almost no-one except minister Abetz seriously believes the headline unemployment number can ever dip below 3% without triggering a sharp rise in inflation. Structural unemployment counts the number of people who are excluded from the jobs market because there are more people looking for work than there are jobs available. |
| I’ll post a summary next. | I’ll post a summary next. |
| Updated | Updated |
| at 8.33am BST | at 8.33am BST |
| 8.03am BST | 8.03am BST |
| 08:03 | 08:03 |
| Green senator Janet Rice opens her questions to the Australian Christian Lobby by pointing out the ACL has said for years changing the Marriage Act should be a very low priority for the parliament but now the ACL’s position is the issue should be settled by a plebiscite “at great public expense.” Isn’t there an inconsistency there? | Green senator Janet Rice opens her questions to the Australian Christian Lobby by pointing out the ACL has said for years changing the Marriage Act should be a very low priority for the parliament but now the ACL’s position is the issue should be settled by a plebiscite “at great public expense.” Isn’t there an inconsistency there? |
| Lyle Shelton, ACL: | Lyle Shelton, ACL: |
| I don’t think there’s any inconsistency senator. | I don’t think there’s any inconsistency senator. |
| Shelton says the ACL has no choice. This issue has come to the parliament several times and been rejected. Now it needs to go to the people for resolution. | Shelton says the ACL has no choice. This issue has come to the parliament several times and been rejected. Now it needs to go to the people for resolution. |
| 7.49am BST | 7.49am BST |
| 07:49 | 07:49 |
| The legal and constitutional affairs committee is holding hearings this afternoon on the same sex marriage plebiscite. I’m keeping half an ear on that for you. At the moment we have a bunch of witnesses who support the current discrimination against same sex couples. | The legal and constitutional affairs committee is holding hearings this afternoon on the same sex marriage plebiscite. I’m keeping half an ear on that for you. At the moment we have a bunch of witnesses who support the current discrimination against same sex couples. |
| 7.35am BST | 7.35am BST |
| 07:35 | 07:35 |
| On Sky News Labor’s trade spokeswoman Penny Wong has been asked three times will Labor scuttle the China free trade deal if push comes to shove. It’s a more than reasonable question, that she’s comprehensively declined to answer. | On Sky News Labor’s trade spokeswoman Penny Wong has been asked three times will Labor scuttle the China free trade deal if push comes to shove. It’s a more than reasonable question, that she’s comprehensively declined to answer. |
| Penny Wong: | Penny Wong: |
| We will continue to press our case. The only person who is a risk to the implementation of the free trade agreement is Tony Abbott. | We will continue to press our case. The only person who is a risk to the implementation of the free trade agreement is Tony Abbott. |
| Labor is of course a risk to the implementation of the free trade agreement if it votes down the legislation required to bring it into force. | Labor is of course a risk to the implementation of the free trade agreement if it votes down the legislation required to bring it into force. |
| 7.31am BST | 7.31am BST |
| 07:31 | 07:31 |
| My colleague Ben Doherty has written an analysis about the two tiered refugee system that the president of the Human Rights Commission, Gillian Triggs, spoke about early this morning (one rule for Syrians already here, another rule for the Syrians coming under the new cohort of 12,000). | My colleague Ben Doherty has written an analysis about the two tiered refugee system that the president of the Human Rights Commission, Gillian Triggs, spoke about early this morning (one rule for Syrians already here, another rule for the Syrians coming under the new cohort of 12,000). |
| He’s included a couple figures that I reckon are worth a moment’s reflection. | He’s included a couple figures that I reckon are worth a moment’s reflection. |
| On the point of wastefulness, Australia’s monetary contribution to assist Syrian refugees, also announced on Wednesday, exposes the absurd cost of offshore detention. | On the point of wastefulness, Australia’s monetary contribution to assist Syrian refugees, also announced on Wednesday, exposes the absurd cost of offshore detention. |
| Australia will contribute an additional $44m to those displaced by the Syrian conflict. This will assist 240,000 people with food, drinking water, blankets, and shelter for the impending, harsh winter. | Australia will contribute an additional $44m to those displaced by the Syrian conflict. This will assist 240,000 people with food, drinking water, blankets, and shelter for the impending, harsh winter. |
| Yet the Australian government pays more than that – $60m – every single month to Transfield Services to detain 1,500 people on Nauru and Manus in conditions successive parliamentary inquiries have described as violent, abusive, and dangerous. | Yet the Australian government pays more than that – $60m – every single month to Transfield Services to detain 1,500 people on Nauru and Manus in conditions successive parliamentary inquiries have described as violent, abusive, and dangerous. |
| Just roll that over in your mind – $44m for 240,000 people versus $60m a month. | Just roll that over in your mind – $44m for 240,000 people versus $60m a month. |
| 7.02am BST | 7.02am BST |
| 07:02 | 07:02 |
| Something about a parliamentary afternoon on Thursday that makes everyone want to run away. | Something about a parliamentary afternoon on Thursday that makes everyone want to run away. |
| Don’t you run away. Lots still afoot in these ornery parts. | Don’t you run away. Lots still afoot in these ornery parts. |
| 6.54am BST | 6.54am BST |
| 06:54 | 06:54 |
| We can all use a little outbreak of joy. Look at Ewen Jones. | We can all use a little outbreak of joy. Look at Ewen Jones. |
| 6.46am BST | 6.46am BST |
| 06:46 | 06:46 |
| The perils of too clever by half | The perils of too clever by half |
| We’ve see it before, government proposes an economic reform, with a certain amount of complexity and political risk – but is immediately outflanked by interest groups who establish the terms of the debate before the ink is even dry on the policy papers. | We’ve see it before, government proposes an economic reform, with a certain amount of complexity and political risk – but is immediately outflanked by interest groups who establish the terms of the debate before the ink is even dry on the policy papers. |
| We saw it with the mining tax. We saw it with the carbon pricing scheme. The no case was telegraphed more simply and effectively than the yes case – putting the Labor government behind the eight ball from the start. We are seeing it now with the China free trade agreement. Way too late, the government is trying to set the terms of the conversation about the agreement. The government is not only very late, but it is engaging in silly acts of harm to the cause. | We saw it with the mining tax. We saw it with the carbon pricing scheme. The no case was telegraphed more simply and effectively than the yes case – putting the Labor government behind the eight ball from the start. We are seeing it now with the China free trade agreement. Way too late, the government is trying to set the terms of the conversation about the agreement. The government is not only very late, but it is engaging in silly acts of harm to the cause. |
| Take two small parliamentary examples this week: the silly motion from Tony Abbott which was designed to pressure Labor about its objections to aspects of the FTA. Labor ran rings around the government in the house tactically, delaying the start of the debate for more than thirty minutes, then making a clearer case than the government about the specific objections. Bill Shorten does not always rise to the occasion in making a simple point, quite often he can’t nail an argument, but he managed in the debate. In contrast to the shaming stunt from the government, Labor’s pitch was to first frustrate the flow of the conversation, and then sue for peace. It was a better pitch on the day, and the prime minister knew it. His frustration was evident. | Take two small parliamentary examples this week: the silly motion from Tony Abbott which was designed to pressure Labor about its objections to aspects of the FTA. Labor ran rings around the government in the house tactically, delaying the start of the debate for more than thirty minutes, then making a clearer case than the government about the specific objections. Bill Shorten does not always rise to the occasion in making a simple point, quite often he can’t nail an argument, but he managed in the debate. In contrast to the shaming stunt from the government, Labor’s pitch was to first frustrate the flow of the conversation, and then sue for peace. It was a better pitch on the day, and the prime minister knew it. His frustration was evident. |
| Now today’s contribution. Whomever thought it was a clever idea to rebadge the China free trade agreement the China export agreement really should not be working in professional politics. It was undergraduate and stupid. To borrow a concept from a good friend of mine, a good line is one you shouldn’t notice. How better to draw attention to the fact that you are losing the argument in the court of public opinion than to pull something as crude and obvious as that? Labor called it out in about two minutes. Trade agreements are about exports and imports – to pretend the second bit of the transaction doesn’t exist only serves to highlight your own nervousness. Labor in government pulled similar little outbreaks of stupid at moments of pressure, and the voters never thank governments that fundamentally lack the courage of their convictions. | Now today’s contribution. Whomever thought it was a clever idea to rebadge the China free trade agreement the China export agreement really should not be working in professional politics. It was undergraduate and stupid. To borrow a concept from a good friend of mine, a good line is one you shouldn’t notice. How better to draw attention to the fact that you are losing the argument in the court of public opinion than to pull something as crude and obvious as that? Labor called it out in about two minutes. Trade agreements are about exports and imports – to pretend the second bit of the transaction doesn’t exist only serves to highlight your own nervousness. Labor in government pulled similar little outbreaks of stupid at moments of pressure, and the voters never thank governments that fundamentally lack the courage of their convictions. |
| So here’s a little thought for the government. The trade deal with China is a big deal for this country over the long haul. It would be good to develop a more effective means of explaining its benefits and being open about its impact on the country. And if we can take Andrew Robb at his word, if it really isn’t difficult to address Labor’s concerns, why not do it? Take what is reasonable from the Labor shopping list and bin what isn’t. Drop the silly politics, the weasel wording, the faux fighting, and set about building a legacy. Let’s face it, this government could really use one. | So here’s a little thought for the government. The trade deal with China is a big deal for this country over the long haul. It would be good to develop a more effective means of explaining its benefits and being open about its impact on the country. And if we can take Andrew Robb at his word, if it really isn’t difficult to address Labor’s concerns, why not do it? Take what is reasonable from the Labor shopping list and bin what isn’t. Drop the silly politics, the weasel wording, the faux fighting, and set about building a legacy. Let’s face it, this government could really use one. |
| At the moment the government is running the risk of repeating Labor’s key miscalculation with emissions trading several years ago, when Kevin Rudd thought he was being clever by using climate action as a political wedge against the then Liberal party leader Malcolm Turnbull. | At the moment the government is running the risk of repeating Labor’s key miscalculation with emissions trading several years ago, when Kevin Rudd thought he was being clever by using climate action as a political wedge against the then Liberal party leader Malcolm Turnbull. |
| People have had a gutful of the games. My free advice? Do us all a favour and shut up and govern. | People have had a gutful of the games. My free advice? Do us all a favour and shut up and govern. |
| 6.11am BST | 6.11am BST |
| 06:11 | 06:11 |
| Further questions have been placed on the notice paper. I’ll do a short analysis of that session shortly. | Further questions have been placed on the notice paper. I’ll do a short analysis of that session shortly. |
| 6.10am BST | 6.10am BST |
| 06:10 | 06:10 |
| Another Dixer from the naughty corner on the opportunities for health in the China free trade agreement, from backbencher Wyatt Roy. | Another Dixer from the naughty corner on the opportunities for health in the China free trade agreement, from backbencher Wyatt Roy. |
| Health minister Sussan Ley sees many opportunities in this agreement. | Health minister Sussan Ley sees many opportunities in this agreement. |