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| Version 9 | Version 10 |
|---|---|
| Republican debate: Carson and Trump flail as establishment talks policy – as it happened | Republican debate: Carson and Trump flail as establishment talks policy – as it happened |
| (30 days later) | |
| 5.04am GMT | 5.04am GMT |
| 05:04 | 05:04 |
| The fourth Republican debate is in the can. Here’s what we learned tonight: | The fourth Republican debate is in the can. Here’s what we learned tonight: |
| Updated | Updated |
| at 5.09am GMT | at 5.09am GMT |
| 4.30am GMT | 4.30am GMT |
| 04:30 | 04:30 |
| The Guardian US business desk give their verdict: | The Guardian US business desk give their verdict: |
| Dominic Rushe: | Dominic Rushe: |
| Well that was a much better debate than the CNBC fiasco. There were a lot of gaps but minimum wage, check, China, check, we even had a reasonable back and forth of the Trans-Pacific Partnership trade deal (TPP). Trump slammed it - wrongly - as giving too much to China and Kasich made the case for TPP being a buffer against China’s dominance in the Pacific region. | Well that was a much better debate than the CNBC fiasco. There were a lot of gaps but minimum wage, check, China, check, we even had a reasonable back and forth of the Trans-Pacific Partnership trade deal (TPP). Trump slammed it - wrongly - as giving too much to China and Kasich made the case for TPP being a buffer against China’s dominance in the Pacific region. |
| Rubio had a crack at Dodd Frank - the legislation that came in after the last financial crisis and which has codified “too big to fail”. Cruz said he would “absolutely not” bail out the big banks again. | Rubio had a crack at Dodd Frank - the legislation that came in after the last financial crisis and which has codified “too big to fail”. Cruz said he would “absolutely not” bail out the big banks again. |
| That was, given the very bitty format, a fairly substantial airing of the candidates’ views on some major economic issues. The losers for me were Carson and Trump, who just didn’t have much substance. Although I would hesitate to say there was a clear winner. Maybe Christie in the early-evening babies’ debate? | That was, given the very bitty format, a fairly substantial airing of the candidates’ views on some major economic issues. The losers for me were Carson and Trump, who just didn’t have much substance. Although I would hesitate to say there was a clear winner. Maybe Christie in the early-evening babies’ debate? |
| Jana Kasperkevic | Jana Kasperkevic |
| Christie kept his eye on the ball, or rather on Hillary. She emerged as the winner of this debate too. | Christie kept his eye on the ball, or rather on Hillary. She emerged as the winner of this debate too. |
| As for the losers, you can add philosophers, IRS agents and women to the list. I have a feeling that besides their own moms, the GOP candidates do not know many women. Or minimum wage workers. When asked if he was sympathetic to the fact that minimum wage workers only make $15,000 a year, Trump said no. I would love to see him try to make it on that little. | As for the losers, you can add philosophers, IRS agents and women to the list. I have a feeling that besides their own moms, the GOP candidates do not know many women. Or minimum wage workers. When asked if he was sympathetic to the fact that minimum wage workers only make $15,000 a year, Trump said no. I would love to see him try to make it on that little. |
| And while this debate addressed a lot of the issues that CNBC only skirted around, the one thing they did not mention is the high cost of higher education. US college debt has surpassed $1tn. It shouldn’t be this easy to ignore. | And while this debate addressed a lot of the issues that CNBC only skirted around, the one thing they did not mention is the high cost of higher education. US college debt has surpassed $1tn. It shouldn’t be this easy to ignore. |
| Dominic Rushe | Dominic Rushe |
| I agree but hey at least we learnt that Rubio is wrong - philosophers DO make more than welders. | I agree but hey at least we learnt that Rubio is wrong - philosophers DO make more than welders. |
| Stay in school, kids. | Stay in school, kids. |
| 4.19am GMT | 4.19am GMT |
| 04:19 | 04:19 |
| Closing statements | Closing statements |
| Paul: We’re rich. We’re free. And we’re in debt. Can you be a conservative if you blow a bunch of money on the military? I’m the only fiscal conservative on the stage. | Paul: We’re rich. We’re free. And we’re in debt. Can you be a conservative if you blow a bunch of money on the military? I’m the only fiscal conservative on the stage. |
| Kasich: My two 16-year-olds. I worry about them if Hillary Clinton wins. Conservatism means returning power to the people. Wealth, connection, family. Great days ahead. | Kasich: My two 16-year-olds. I worry about them if Hillary Clinton wins. Conservatism means returning power to the people. Wealth, connection, family. Great days ahead. |
| Fiorina: Imagine a Clinton presidency. Deteriorating military. Crushed middle class. Corroded national character, because of the Clinton way. Carly Fiorina can beat Hillary Clinton. | Fiorina: Imagine a Clinton presidency. Deteriorating military. Crushed middle class. Corroded national character, because of the Clinton way. Carly Fiorina can beat Hillary Clinton. |
| Bush: Widow of soldier killed in Afghanistan sitting with my wife. We need a commander in chief. Support the veterans. That’s my pledge to you. Vote Bush. | Bush: Widow of soldier killed in Afghanistan sitting with my wife. We need a commander in chief. Support the veterans. That’s my pledge to you. Vote Bush. |
| Cruz: My father fled Cuba. “As he stood on the deck of that ferry boat, with the wind and salt air blowing,” it was awesome. Bold colors not pale pastels. Grassroots army. We the people. | Cruz: My father fled Cuba. “As he stood on the deck of that ferry boat, with the wind and salt air blowing,” it was awesome. Bold colors not pale pastels. Grassroots army. We the people. |
| Rubio: Story of America is each generation leaving the next better off. Washington is crushing America. This election is about making a different choice. The 21st century can be a new American century. Go to Marco Rubio dot com! | Rubio: Story of America is each generation leaving the next better off. Washington is crushing America. This election is about making a different choice. The 21st century can be a new American century. Go to Marco Rubio dot com! |
| Carson: In the two hours of this debate, five people have died. $100m has been added to debt. 200 babies have been killed by abortionists, two vets have taken their lives out of despair. It does not have to be this way. | Carson: In the two hours of this debate, five people have died. $100m has been added to debt. 200 babies have been killed by abortionists, two vets have taken their lives out of despair. It does not have to be this way. |
| Trump: I’m rich and proud of my company. Iconic properties. I don’t have to give you a website because I’m self funding. We cannot let Hillary Clinton win. | Trump: I’m rich and proud of my company. Iconic properties. I don’t have to give you a website because I’m self funding. We cannot let Hillary Clinton win. |
| And ... Clinton: | And ... Clinton: |
| #GOPdebate pic.twitter.com/vqbB3Tpf5r | #GOPdebate pic.twitter.com/vqbB3Tpf5r |
| Updated | Updated |
| at 4.25am GMT | at 4.25am GMT |
| 4.07am GMT | 4.07am GMT |
| 04:07 | 04:07 |
| One last commercial break. Closing statements are next! | One last commercial break. Closing statements are next! |
| 4.06am GMT | 4.06am GMT |
| 04:06 | 04:06 |
| Paul on climate change: 'we need to look before we leap' | Paul on climate change: 'we need to look before we leap' |
| Paul is asked about energy self-sufficiency and climate change. | Paul is asked about energy self-sufficiency and climate change. |
| He says that he would repeal EPA regulations and the clean power act. | He says that he would repeal EPA regulations and the clean power act. |
| “While I do think that man may have a role in our planet, I think nature also has a role... we’ve been through geologic age after geologic age.” | “While I do think that man may have a role in our planet, I think nature also has a role... we’ve been through geologic age after geologic age.” |
| Temperatures go up, Paul says. And temperatures come down. | Temperatures go up, Paul says. And temperatures come down. |
| “We need to look before we leap” on the climate, he says. | “We need to look before we leap” on the climate, he says. |
| 4.04am GMT | 4.04am GMT |
| 04:04 | 04:04 |
| Cruz weighs in. “Hillary Clinton embodies the cronyism of Washington,” he says. Applause. | Cruz weighs in. “Hillary Clinton embodies the cronyism of Washington,” he says. Applause. |
| Question for Trump. He’s asked about a plank in his tax plan to tax US profits held overseas at a one-time 10%. | Question for Trump. He’s asked about a plank in his tax plan to tax US profits held overseas at a one-time 10%. |
| Trump says that corporate inversion, the flight and retention of taxes overseas is a new and deleterious trend. | Trump says that corporate inversion, the flight and retention of taxes overseas is a new and deleterious trend. |
| “We can’t get the money back in.. it’s probably $2.5tn.” | “We can’t get the money back in.. it’s probably $2.5tn.” |
| With his tax, he says, “we’re going to have all this money pouring back into the United States’. | With his tax, he says, “we’re going to have all this money pouring back into the United States’. |
| Let’s make America great again. | Let’s make America great again. |
| Updated | Updated |
| at 4.05am GMT | at 4.05am GMT |
| 4.01am GMT | 4.01am GMT |
| 04:01 | 04:01 |
| They’re back. | They’re back. |
| Question for Rubio, about Hillary Clinton. Why should the American people trust you more than her? | Question for Rubio, about Hillary Clinton. Why should the American people trust you more than her? |
| “Well that’s a great question. And let me begin by answering it,” he says. | “Well that’s a great question. And let me begin by answering it,” he says. |
| He laughs at himself. | He laughs at himself. |
| Then he says “this election is about the future,” and lapses into a stump speech. “The Democratic party and the political left has no idea it’s about the future. .. This nation is going to turn the page.” | Then he says “this election is about the future,” and lapses into a stump speech. “The Democratic party and the political left has no idea it’s about the future. .. This nation is going to turn the page.” |
| Scripted feeling to it, but applauded. | Scripted feeling to it, but applauded. |
| 3.56am GMT | 3.56am GMT |
| 03:56 | 03:56 |
| And here was Trump, who doesn’t like being interrupted. | And here was Trump, who doesn’t like being interrupted. |
| 3.56am GMT | 3.56am GMT |
| 03:56 | 03:56 |
| Commercial break. Two significant exchanges and actual points of intense debate tonight, one on bank bailouts, one on military spending and Middle East policy. | Commercial break. Two significant exchanges and actual points of intense debate tonight, one on bank bailouts, one on military spending and Middle East policy. |
| 3.55am GMT | 3.55am GMT |
| 03:55 | 03:55 |
| Jessica Valenti | Jessica Valenti |
| Here is Guardian US columnist Jessica Valenti on the misogynist moment of the evening: | Here is Guardian US columnist Jessica Valenti on the misogynist moment of the evening: |
| You’ve got to love Trump, the undisputed Interrupter-in-Chief of American politics, getting whiny about Carly Fiorina, asking: | You’ve got to love Trump, the undisputed Interrupter-in-Chief of American politics, getting whiny about Carly Fiorina, asking: |
| ‘Why does she keep interrupting everybody?’ | ‘Why does she keep interrupting everybody?’ |
| Perhaps Trump isn’t used to hearing women talk all that often. We already know he doesn’t listen to them. | Perhaps Trump isn’t used to hearing women talk all that often. We already know he doesn’t listen to them. |
| 3.54am GMT | 3.54am GMT |
| 03:54 | 03:54 |
| Cruz presses Kasich on whether he would bail out a big bank as it was going down. Kasich says as an executive he would “separate those people who could afford it, and people who put their money in...” | Cruz presses Kasich on whether he would bail out a big bank as it was going down. Kasich says as an executive he would “separate those people who could afford it, and people who put their money in...” |
| Kasich is booed, and then tries to explain, but then he’s dinged for being out of time, and the moment fades. | Kasich is booed, and then tries to explain, but then he’s dinged for being out of time, and the moment fades. |
| Fiorina jumps in and says something about creeping socialism. | Fiorina jumps in and says something about creeping socialism. |
| She’s applauded! | She’s applauded! |
| Updated | Updated |
| at 3.55am GMT | at 3.55am GMT |
| 3.54am GMT | 3.54am GMT |
| 03:54 | 03:54 |
| Here was Ted Cruz earlier promising not to push any grannies off a cliff – his or anyone else’s. | Here was Ted Cruz earlier promising not to push any grannies off a cliff – his or anyone else’s. |
| 3.52am GMT | 3.52am GMT |
| 03:52 | 03:52 |
| Cruz: 'The biggest lie in all of Washington is that Republicans are the party of the rich' | Cruz: 'The biggest lie in all of Washington is that Republicans are the party of the rich' |
| Cruz is asked whether Wall Street crooks have gotten away with financial murder. | Cruz is asked whether Wall Street crooks have gotten away with financial murder. |
| He says yes. He says he would “absolutely not” bail out the big banks again. “The biggest lie in all of Washington is that Republicans are the party of the rich.” | He says yes. He says he would “absolutely not” bail out the big banks again. “The biggest lie in all of Washington is that Republicans are the party of the rich.” |
| Cavuto asks for elaboration. | Cavuto asks for elaboration. |
| “If the Bank of America were on the brink, you would let it fail?” | “If the Bank of America were on the brink, you would let it fail?” |
| “Yes,” Cruz says. | “Yes,” Cruz says. |
| “Millions of depositors would be in line with that decision.” | “Millions of depositors would be in line with that decision.” |
| “I would not bail them out,” Cruz says. He says the Fed should return to the gold standard and serve as a lender of last resort. It is not a bailout, he says, it’s a loan at a higher rate. | “I would not bail them out,” Cruz says. He says the Fed should return to the gold standard and serve as a lender of last resort. It is not a bailout, he says, it’s a loan at a higher rate. |
| “We need to get back to sound money, which helps in particular working men and women.” | “We need to get back to sound money, which helps in particular working men and women.” |
| Kasich: “When a bank is getting ready to go under and depositors’ life savings are on the line,” you’ve got to step in. | Kasich: “When a bank is getting ready to go under and depositors’ life savings are on the line,” you’ve got to step in. |
| “Philosophy doesn’t work when you run something. And I got to tell you, on the job training for the president of the United States does not work.” | “Philosophy doesn’t work when you run something. And I got to tell you, on the job training for the president of the United States does not work.” |
| 3.45am GMT | 3.45am GMT |
| 03:45 | 03:45 |
| This was Ben Carson being introduced earlier: | This was Ben Carson being introduced earlier: |
| 3.44am GMT | 3.44am GMT |
| 03:44 | 03:44 |
| Carson is asked if he would break up JP Morgan bank. He does not simply state, “no.” He suggests that regulation of big banks is needed. | Carson is asked if he would break up JP Morgan bank. He does not simply state, “no.” He suggests that regulation of big banks is needed. |
| “I think we should have policies that don’t allow them to just enlarge themselves at the expense of smaller entities,” he says. | “I think we should have policies that don’t allow them to just enlarge themselves at the expense of smaller entities,” he says. |
| Then he says that “the creep of regulations has turned into a stampede of regulations.” | Then he says that “the creep of regulations has turned into a stampede of regulations.” |
| Updated | Updated |
| at 3.45am GMT | at 3.45am GMT |
| 3.42am GMT | 3.42am GMT |
| 03:42 | 03:42 |
| Bush gets a question about bank bailouts. Would he support such a bailout in the case of a future financial crisis? | Bush gets a question about bank bailouts. Would he support such a bailout in the case of a future financial crisis? |
| Let’s not have another crisis, Bush says. “Raise the capital requirements so that banks are not too big to fail.” He says small bankers are paying too much to comply with Dodd-Frank regulations. | Let’s not have another crisis, Bush says. “Raise the capital requirements so that banks are not too big to fail.” He says small bankers are paying too much to comply with Dodd-Frank regulations. |
| Then Bush takes a swipe at Clinton. “She wants to double down on that,” he says. “She is captive to the left of her party.” | Then Bush takes a swipe at Clinton. “She wants to double down on that,” he says. “She is captive to the left of her party.” |
| Team Bush are pushing his attacks on Clinton heavily by email to reporters. His new strategy is to just pretend he's still the frontrunner! | Team Bush are pushing his attacks on Clinton heavily by email to reporters. His new strategy is to just pretend he's still the frontrunner! |
| Updated | Updated |
| at 3.47am GMT | at 3.47am GMT |
| 3.41am GMT | 3.41am GMT |
| 03:41 | 03:41 |
| Massachusetts senator and liberal icon Elizabeth Warren is watching - and she’s not happy. | Massachusetts senator and liberal icon Elizabeth Warren is watching - and she’s not happy. |
| So... Can we talk about that ad that just ran during the #GOPDebate where I look like a Commie dictator? | So... Can we talk about that ad that just ran during the #GOPDebate where I look like a Commie dictator? |
| 3.37am GMT | 3.37am GMT |
| 03:37 | 03:37 |
| Now to Kasich, on the question of cyber attacks by China. Kasich says that he would destroy the tools China uses to mount the attacks. | Now to Kasich, on the question of cyber attacks by China. Kasich says that he would destroy the tools China uses to mount the attacks. |
| Then he proposes a tour around the world. He calls for reinforced Nato posture in eastern Europe. No-fly zones in Iraq and Syria. Support for the Jordanian king. Withdrawal of support for radical elements in Saudi Arabia. Support for Israel. Force projection in the South China Sea. | Then he proposes a tour around the world. He calls for reinforced Nato posture in eastern Europe. No-fly zones in Iraq and Syria. Support for the Jordanian king. Withdrawal of support for radical elements in Saudi Arabia. Support for Israel. Force projection in the South China Sea. |
| He warns that Republicans have to shape realistic plans to defeat Hillary Clinton. | He warns that Republicans have to shape realistic plans to defeat Hillary Clinton. |
| “We make promises we can’t keep under the bright light of the fall [2016], we have trouble,” Kasich says. “We must make sure our economic programs and our military programs are solid.” | “We make promises we can’t keep under the bright light of the fall [2016], we have trouble,” Kasich says. “We must make sure our economic programs and our military programs are solid.” |
| Strong riff by Kasich. But weakish applause. | Strong riff by Kasich. But weakish applause. |
| 3.36am GMT | 3.36am GMT |
| 03:36 | 03:36 |
| There have been tons of interruptions during this debate – from every corner, writes Jesse Berney. | There have been tons of interruptions during this debate – from every corner, writes Jesse Berney. |
| John Kasich, Jeb Bush, Rand Paul, just about everyone at some point has tried to speak up without the moderators recognizing him. | John Kasich, Jeb Bush, Rand Paul, just about everyone at some point has tried to speak up without the moderators recognizing him. |
| But when Carly Fiorina tried to jump in when Rand Paul was criticizing an answer she gave, Trump - who yes, interrupted people tonight - popped up to ask: “Why does she keep interrupting everybody?” | But when Carly Fiorina tried to jump in when Rand Paul was criticizing an answer she gave, Trump - who yes, interrupted people tonight - popped up to ask: “Why does she keep interrupting everybody?” |
| Why did Trump attack Fiorina for interrupting and not anyone else? Hmm, what is it that makes Fiorina different from the other candidates on the stage? | Why did Trump attack Fiorina for interrupting and not anyone else? Hmm, what is it that makes Fiorina different from the other candidates on the stage? |
| I’m no fan of Fiorina, obviously (just scroll down this liveblog), but that was a pretty naked moment of sexism from Donald Trump. Which is the least surprising moment of a predictable night. | I’m no fan of Fiorina, obviously (just scroll down this liveblog), but that was a pretty naked moment of sexism from Donald Trump. Which is the least surprising moment of a predictable night. |