This article is from the source 'guardian' and was first published or seen on . It last changed over 40 days ago and won't be checked again for changes.
You can find the current article at its original source at http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/live/2015/dec/19/democratic-debate-live-hillary-clinton-bernie-sanders-martin-omalley-abc
The article has changed 13 times. There is an RSS feed of changes available.
| Version 3 | Version 4 |
|---|---|
| Democratic debate: candidates focus fire on Trump regarding fight against Isis – live updates | |
| (35 minutes later) | |
| 2.28am GMT02:28 | |
| Clinton energetically goes into a plan for both fighting Isis and working on a political negotiations simultaneously. | |
| She says that failing to manage both would be to pour “more gas on the fire” as Iran and Russia get more deeply involved to support Assad. Iran’s expanded presence “would threaten Israel and would make it more difficult for us … to make a transition” away from Assad. | |
| Sanders counters: “It’s not Assad that’s attacking the United States. It’s Isis.” The militants are his priority he says, and the US should work in “a broad coalition, including Russia, to destroy Isis”. | |
| O’Malley says he wants to provide a different generation’s thinking – which mostly amounts to a rejection of cold war-thinking. He’s with Sanders though about prioritizing Isis. | |
| Neither Sanders nor Clinton are answering some very good direct questions from Martha Raddatz on fighting Isis | |
| 2.24am GMT02:24 | |
| Sanders disagrees. He brings up his vote against Iraq and Clinton’s vote for it. | |
| “I worry that secretary Clinton is a little too much into regime change” and not concerned about the consequences, he says. | |
| We could get rid of Saddam Hussein, Muammar Gaddafi, or Assad very quickly, but that’s not the point, he continues. He wants a coalition in every case to help manage the situation. | |
| “Getting rid of dictators is easy, but before you do that you’ve got to think of what happens the day after.” | |
| Clinton sharp reproaches Sanders: she points out that he was for intervention in Libya. | |
| 2.22am GMT02:22 | |
| From Guardian US columnist Richard Wolffe: | |
| The ghost of Christmas present is clearly Donald Trump. Normally Democratic candidates following a Democratic president have trouble finding their bearings. The reason they love mentioning the Donald is because he defines who they are better than President Obama. To adapt Biden’s famous quip about Giuliani, every sentence tonight seems to have a noun, a verb and a Trump. | |
| From Guardian US columnist Lucia Graves: | |
| Clinton however, got the first official opportunity to attack Trump’s – racist and probably unconstitutional – call to ban all Muslims from entering the country. It’s an issue that she thinks gets to the heart of both Trump’s appeal and danger. | |
| “A lot of people are reacting out of fear and anxiety about what they’re seeing, first what they saw in Paris now what they’ve seen in San Bernardino,” she said. “And Mr Trump has a great capacity to use bluster and bigotry to inflame people, and to make them think there are easy answers to very complex questions.” | |
| Recalling her time as a senator from New York after the 9/11 attacks, Clinton said what’s needed is not banning Muslims, but the opposite: making sure Muslim Americans “don’t feel left out or marginalized at the very moment when we need their help”. | |
| O’Malley and Sanders got in on the Trump-bashing too, O’Malley calling him “incompetent” and Sanders accusing him of stoking fear and anger. | |
| “We’re going to hate the Mexicans, they’re criminals and rapists,” Sanders said, sarcastically channelling Trump. “We’re going to hate the Mexicans those are your enemies. We hate all the Muslims because all the Muslims are terrorists. We’re going to hate the Muslims. Meanwhile, the rich get richer.” | |
| The audience applauded. | |
| 2.21am GMT02:21 | |
| Clinton jumps in to talk about why a no-fly zone would be great – a refuge for the refugees and leverage on Russia and Syrian dictator Bashar al-Assad. | |
| But would she shoot down a Russian jet, like Turkey did earlier this year? | |
| “I do not think it would come to that, we are already deconflicting air space!” | |
| “I am advocating the no-fly zone both because I think it would help us on the ground to protect Syrians, I am advocating it also because I think it would give us some leverage with the Russians.” | |
| 2.19am GMT02:19 | |
| The moderator asks about mission creep, considering Barack Obama’s decision to put special forces on the ground – and Clinton’s support for that move. | |
| “If we lead an air coalition,” she says, “if we continue to build back up the Iraqi army, which has had some recent success in Ramadi” and work with tribal leaders, Isis will be defeated. | |
| O’Malley says there’s not enough diplomatic intelligence in the Middle East. “We do our military a disservice when we don’t greatly dial up the investment we make in our diplomacy and human intelligence.” | |
| He wants a whole new sort of team, but doesn’t get into specifics about who’d be on it. | |
| Look, this is a genocidal threat. They have now created a safe haven … we cannot allow safe havens. … We need to come up with new alliances and new ways to come up with these kinds of threats.” | |
| “This is the new type of threat that we’re facing and we need to lead.” | |
| 2.16am GMT02:16 | |
| Clinton answers the same question with an outright rejection of ground troops too. Lots of agreement on stage tonight. She says Isis would love another US invasion. | |
| They want American troops back in the Middle East, they want American soldiers back on the ground fighting them, giving them many more targets and giving them a great recruiting tool. | |
| She repeats that Trump is making it all worse: “To take on the threat of Isis you don’t want to alienate the very people you need.” | |
| 2.14am GMT02:14 | |
| Sanders gets a question about military intervention in the Middle East – why he was for attacking al-Qaida in Afghanistan but not the invasion of Iraq or ground intervention against Isis. | |
| He calls the invasion of Iraq one of the worst blunders in American history, and says that the war against Isis requires Sunni Muslim leadership. How will he fight Isis, though? He says he’ll make it work. | |
| “I’ll tell Saudi Arabia instead of going to war in Yemen, they one of the wealthiest countries on earth” are going to have to fight Isis, he says. Qatar, “instead of paying $20bn on the World Cup, maybe they are going to have to pay attention to Isis”. | |
| The US “cannot succeed or be thought of as the policeman of the world”. | |
| 2.14am GMT02:14 | |
| Megan Carpentier | |
| From Guardian US opinion editor Megan Carpentier: | |
| Clinton has now made two references to the desires of law enforcement to force tech companies to install “backdoors” to existing consumer encryption on cell phones – that is to say, the kind of encryption used with iMessage and WhatsApp that keeps other people from easily reading your messages, not anything fancy you’d need a computer science degree to operate. | |
| Like Carly Fiorina in this week’s Republican debate, Clinton is convinced that tech companies who have thus far, despite pressure from law enforcement and intelligence agencies, refused to make their systems more vulnerable to law enforcement – and therefore hackers – can just be cajoled into cooperating with government, even though she admits that, like almost everyone else in government “I don’t know enough about the technology to be able say what [the solution] is”. | |
| So she called for a “Manhattan-like project” to bring technology companies and government together to undermine existing consumer-level encryption. | |
| At least she admitted: “Maybe the backdoor is the wrong door.” | |
| 2.11am GMT02:11 | |
| The moderator asks Clinton and O’Malley about refugees. | |
| She notes that the vetting process is already lengthy and comprehensive – it takes 18-24 months, and involves multiple interviews. She says that to reassure Americans worried about refugees, she would outline priorities for whom to welcome: “I would prioritize widows and the elderly and orphans … people who may have families or have nowhere else to go.” | |
| O’Malley says he would call for even more refugees in the US, saying the country needs to continue to stand for the values that the Statue of Liberty represents. | |
| 2.08am GMT02:08 | |
| Clinton gets asked about encryption – privacy versus security (read: surveillance) – and Clinton rolls out a line about getting tech companies to cooperate with law enforcers. | |
| “I don’t know enough about the technology, Martha, to say what it is. Maybe the backdoor is the wrong door and I understand what Apple and others are saying about that. But I also understand when a law enforcement official is saying … “ | |
| “We always have to balance privacy and security,” she continues, “but I know that law enforcement needs the tools to keep us safe” – essentially coming down on the side of the FBI and NSA over more extensive surveillance tools. | |
| O’Malley gets a chance to answer, which he’s been desperate for. He goes for the pro-civil liberties approach, then waffles. | |
| I believe that we should never give up our privacy, never give up our freedoms … I believe we need a collaborative approach. … The federal government should have to get warrants. … But at the same time I believe that the people creating these products also have an obligation to [recognize] a responsibility to come to law enforcement.” | |
| 2.05am GMT02:05 | |
| Sanders gets a chance to answer, and rather deftly spins the Muslim ban question into one about inequality. | |
| He says that Americans see these attacks and feel afraid, a fear compounded by the anxieties of stagnant wages, high unemployment and the other struggles of an unequal economy. | |
| “Somebody like a Trump comes along and says ‘I know the answers,’” Sanders says. Trump’s rhetoric amounts to shifting blame always onto someone else, whether Mexicans or Muslims as “enemies”. | |
| “Meanwhile the rich get richer,” Sanders shouts. He spins it into an appeal to unity above race and class, in rejection of fear and anger. | |
| 2.03am GMT02:03 | |
| Jeb Lund | |
| From Guardian US columnist Jeb Lund: | |
| Clinton totally ducked the gun issue, but at least she did it with admirable (and, for this candidate group, universal) rhetoric about the importance and efficacy of using Muslim-Americans both as a first line of defense and also a repudiation of Isis and Marco Rubio’s rhetoric of a binary civilizational conflict between Islam and the US. | |
| That might explain why she and Sanders were content to swipe at O’Malley’s high moral rhetoric on the gun issue, because it makes the focus more on his being unreasonable than on her and Sanders wavering on it. | |
| Unfortunately, what none of these candidates will do is address the point that O’Malley’s gun control rhetoric shouldn’t be tied to the existence of Isis. That’s just demagoguing from the progressive end, and it’s no better. Do something about gun control because it’s morally necessary and right, not because you can tie it to some looming foreign horror. If it’s right, it only needs reality to sell it, not some boogeyman of opportunity. | |
| 2.02am GMT02:02 | |
| Martin Pengelly | |
| Our man in ABC’s room of young people, Will Ackerly, reports the opinion of another in the room of young people, one Mohammed Ali: | |
| Clinton is coming off as the mediator on gun control. | |
| 2.02am GMT02:02 | |
| The moderator asks about Donald Trump’s proposed ban on Muslims entering the US. | |
| “I think a lot of people are understandably reacting with fear and anxiety to what they have seen,” she says, alluding to Paris and San Bernardino terrorist attacks. Trump makes “them think there are easy answers to very complex” problems. | |
| We need to have everybody in our country focused on watching what happens and reporting it if it’s suspicious … making sure that Muslim Americans aren’t feeling left out or marginalized at the very moment when we need their help.” | |
| She goes for the 9/11 allusion (she was a New York senator). Then she gives credit to former president George W Bush for making overtures to the Muslim community after the September 11 attack. | |
| “He is becoming Isis’ best recruiter. They are showing videos of Donald Trump insulting Muslims in order to recruit more radical jihadists.” | |
| 1.59am GMT01:59 | |
| O’Malley bursts in, unsolicited, trying hard to blame Washington DC for failing to make gun control happen – and trying to paint himself as the activist outsider who can get things done. | |
| “Isil videos, Isil training videos, are trainng lone wolves that the easiest way to buy guns is at a gun show.” | |
| He says “it’s because of a flip-flopping, political approach on Washington” that gun control won’t pass Congress. | |
| Sanders is upset: “Whoa-oa-oa-oa-oa-oa” | |
| “Let’s tell the truth, Martin,” Clinton chimes in. | |
| Sanders launches into a harangue about his own record, noting that he stuck with gun control measures when it was unpopular in Vermont, and that he’s calling for it now. | |
| Clinton makes a point that Sanders “has moved” on the issue – carefully pointing out his past pro-gun rights voting record – but says she’s glad he’s now for addressing some of those votes. | |
| 1.55am GMT01:55 | |
| The moderators ask Clinton about gun control. She makes the connection between terrorism and guns. | |
| Abroad we need a coalition that is going to take on Isis … I know that it’s something you don’t just hope people do. … We need a coalition here at home. Guns in and of themselves in my opinion will not make Americans safer. We lose 33,000 people a year [to guns]. | |
| Arming more people … I don’t think is the appropriate response to terrorism. I think what is is creating much deeper, closer relations, I think coalitions in our country. | |
| The first line of defense against radicalization, she says, are American Muslims. | |
| “I worry greatly that the rhetoric coming from Republicans, particularly from Donald Trump, is sending a message to Muslims … that there is some clash of civilizations … which then I believe fans the flames of radicalization.” | |
| Sanders answers next, and says guns are a right. | |
| But “when we have more than 300m guns in this country, when we see these horrific mass shootings … I believe we have got to bring together the vast majority of people who do believe” in basic gun control, such as background checks and limits on assault-style weapons, he says. | |
| 1.52am GMT01:52 | 1.52am GMT01:52 |
| From US opinion columnist Lucia Graves in Washington: | From US opinion columnist Lucia Graves in Washington: |
| Bernie Sanders has been campaigning in no small part on morality – and he was not willing to relinquish that upper hand in light of his campaign’s recent data breach. Asked by a moderator if he wanted to apologize to Clinton, he went above and beyond. | Bernie Sanders has been campaigning in no small part on morality – and he was not willing to relinquish that upper hand in light of his campaign’s recent data breach. Asked by a moderator if he wanted to apologize to Clinton, he went above and beyond. |
| “Yes I apologize,” he said. “Not only do I apologize to Secretary Clinton, I want to apologize to my supporters. This is not the type of campaign that I run and if find anyone else involved in this they will be fired.” | “Yes I apologize,” he said. “Not only do I apologize to Secretary Clinton, I want to apologize to my supporters. This is not the type of campaign that I run and if find anyone else involved in this they will be fired.” |
| Clinton in turn rose above the issue, telling Sanders: “I don’t think the American people are all that interested in this.” | Clinton in turn rose above the issue, telling Sanders: “I don’t think the American people are all that interested in this.” |
| From US opinion columnist Jeb Lund in Tampa, Florida: | From US opinion columnist Jeb Lund in Tampa, Florida: |
| And good for Hillary for returning Bernie’s ‘I’m sick and tired of hearing about your damn emails’ by not pushing ahead on the third-party vendor data breach with the DNC. Although, you’ll never be able to convince some conspiracy-minded Sanders supporters that the Clinton campaign didn’t leak the information themselves in the first place – which means that even this graciousness can be interpreted by them as just a second bite at the integrity apple. | And good for Hillary for returning Bernie’s ‘I’m sick and tired of hearing about your damn emails’ by not pushing ahead on the third-party vendor data breach with the DNC. Although, you’ll never be able to convince some conspiracy-minded Sanders supporters that the Clinton campaign didn’t leak the information themselves in the first place – which means that even this graciousness can be interpreted by them as just a second bite at the integrity apple. |
| 1.49am GMT01:49 | 1.49am GMT01:49 |
| Sanders says extensive military intervention is not the answer on Isis for the US. | Sanders says extensive military intervention is not the answer on Isis for the US. |
| “I do not believe in unilateral American action. I believe in action in which we put together a strong coalition of forces. Major powers and Muslim forces.” | “I do not believe in unilateral American action. I believe in action in which we put together a strong coalition of forces. Major powers and Muslim forces.” |
| He gives a shout-out to King Abdullah of Jordan (Getting the name right, unlike Republican governor Chris Christie earlier this week) – and says that Jordan is helping “fight for the soul of Islam”. | He gives a shout-out to King Abdullah of Jordan (Getting the name right, unlike Republican governor Chris Christie earlier this week) – and says that Jordan is helping “fight for the soul of Islam”. |
| 1.48am GMT01:48 | 1.48am GMT01:48 |
| The moderator moves on to a question about terrorism, alluding to the husband and wife couple who killed 14 people in San Bernardino earlier in December. | The moderator moves on to a question about terrorism, alluding to the husband and wife couple who killed 14 people in San Bernardino earlier in December. |
| Clinton says her strategy to for Isis is “not to contain them but to defeat them” – a shot at Barack Obama’s comments earliest this year about the group. Clinton outlines the plan: | Clinton says her strategy to for Isis is “not to contain them but to defeat them” – a shot at Barack Obama’s comments earliest this year about the group. Clinton outlines the plan: |
| Finally she says that Americans cannot demonize Muslims, as some Republicans have done. | Finally she says that Americans cannot demonize Muslims, as some Republicans have done. |
| 1.43am GMT01:43 | 1.43am GMT01:43 |
| Clinton says she appreciates Sanders’ apology. | Clinton says she appreciates Sanders’ apology. |
| “Obviously we were distressed when we learned of it, because we’ve worked very hard … and so now that I think that we’ve resolved your data, agreed on an independent inquiry, we should move on. Because I don’t think the American people care all that much.” | “Obviously we were distressed when we learned of it, because we’ve worked very hard … and so now that I think that we’ve resolved your data, agreed on an independent inquiry, we should move on. Because I don’t think the American people care all that much.” |
| O’Malley juts in, saying that this sort of data breach is exemplary of why Washington is so terrible at getting anything done. He says people who are more “high-minded” than these incidents should check out Martin O’Malley dot com. | O’Malley juts in, saying that this sort of data breach is exemplary of why Washington is so terrible at getting anything done. He says people who are more “high-minded” than these incidents should check out Martin O’Malley dot com. |
| 1.41am GMT01:41 | 1.41am GMT01:41 |
| Sanders apologizes for data breach | Sanders apologizes for data breach |
| First question goes right to the database spat between Sanders and Clinton’s campaigns. Were your staffers stealing, the moderator asks? | First question goes right to the database spat between Sanders and Clinton’s campaigns. Were your staffers stealing, the moderator asks? |
| Sanders says the DNC says there were two breaches in information, where his staff found information on their computers. Those staffers said: “Whoa, what’s going on here,” and went to the vendor and asked what was happening, resolving the problem without issue. | Sanders says the DNC says there were two breaches in information, where his staff found information on their computers. Those staffers said: “Whoa, what’s going on here,” and went to the vendor and asked what was happening, resolving the problem without issue. |
| He says in this third incident someone instead looked at the information, which was wrong, and that that person was fired accordingly. But the DNC made “an egregious act” by cutting off his campaign’s access to voter data, he says. | He says in this third incident someone instead looked at the information, which was wrong, and that that person was fired accordingly. But the DNC made “an egregious act” by cutting off his campaign’s access to voter data, he says. |
| He wants an investigation: “I’m not convinced that information from my campaign didn’t end up in her campaign.” | He wants an investigation: “I’m not convinced that information from my campaign didn’t end up in her campaign.” |
| All the press bothers him too – but he’s immediate about an apology: “yes, I apologize” for the staffer’s actions. He apologizes to supporters too: “this is not the kind of campaign we want to run.” | All the press bothers him too – but he’s immediate about an apology: “yes, I apologize” for the staffer’s actions. He apologizes to supporters too: “this is not the kind of campaign we want to run.” |
| 1.40am GMT01:40 | 1.40am GMT01:40 |
| Jeb Lund | Jeb Lund |
| From Guardian US columnist Jeb Lund, who is watching from Tampa, Florida: | From Guardian US columnist Jeb Lund, who is watching from Tampa, Florida: |
| Martin O’Malley’s passionate opening statement in which he dropped the word “fascism” and mentioned the Statue of Liberty as an enduring American symbol echoed things he’s said in the past. | Martin O’Malley’s passionate opening statement in which he dropped the word “fascism” and mentioned the Statue of Liberty as an enduring American symbol echoed things he’s said in the past. |
| So, I guess I have no choice but to echo things I’ve said in the past: I have no idea why this guy isn’t doing better. | So, I guess I have no choice but to echo things I’ve said in the past: I have no idea why this guy isn’t doing better. |
| 1.37am GMT01:37 | 1.37am GMT01:37 |
| Opening statements: | Opening statements: |
| Hillary Clinton: Keep the country safe and help the economy grow for more people than just those at the top. I’ve got a strategy for defeating Isis without a ground war, and I’ve got a plan to increase incomes and help families sleep better at night. We’ve got to keep Republicans from repealing the Affordable Care Act, from giving tax breaks to the richest Americans, and from letting people on the no-fly list buy guns. I look forward to a discussion of real issues, not like those Repubilcan debates. | Hillary Clinton: Keep the country safe and help the economy grow for more people than just those at the top. I’ve got a strategy for defeating Isis without a ground war, and I’ve got a plan to increase incomes and help families sleep better at night. We’ve got to keep Republicans from repealing the Affordable Care Act, from giving tax breaks to the richest Americans, and from letting people on the no-fly list buy guns. I look forward to a discussion of real issues, not like those Repubilcan debates. |
| Martin O’Malley: Tonight is different. Difference is now. Tonight is different because of this reason. American lives have been taken from us. I’ve looked into the eyes of veterans. Of Boy Scouts. Of Muslims. What our nation needs right now is a to realize we face a political danger, the danger of unscrupulous leaders trying to turn us on each other through fear. We will rise to the challenge of Isis, and we will rise to the challenges of the economy. We must never surrender our values to terrorists, racists or to “the fascist pleas of billionaires with big mouths”. | Martin O’Malley: Tonight is different. Difference is now. Tonight is different because of this reason. American lives have been taken from us. I’ve looked into the eyes of veterans. Of Boy Scouts. Of Muslims. What our nation needs right now is a to realize we face a political danger, the danger of unscrupulous leaders trying to turn us on each other through fear. We will rise to the challenge of Isis, and we will rise to the challenges of the economy. We must never surrender our values to terrorists, racists or to “the fascist pleas of billionaires with big mouths”. |
| Bernie Sanders: Good evening, I am running for president of the United States because it is too late for establishment politics and establishment econmics. I’m running for president because our economy is rigged, because working class people are making smaller wages, and because income is going to the top 1%. I’m running for president because campaign finance is corrupt, billionaires are buying candidates. I’m running because we need to address climate change, and take on the fossil fuel industry and transform our energy system to sustainable energy. I want a new foreign policy, one that destroys Isis but does not get us in the quagmire of the Middle East, but rather works with a coalition of nations supporting Muslim troops on the ground. | Bernie Sanders: Good evening, I am running for president of the United States because it is too late for establishment politics and establishment econmics. I’m running for president because our economy is rigged, because working class people are making smaller wages, and because income is going to the top 1%. I’m running for president because campaign finance is corrupt, billionaires are buying candidates. I’m running because we need to address climate change, and take on the fossil fuel industry and transform our energy system to sustainable energy. I want a new foreign policy, one that destroys Isis but does not get us in the quagmire of the Middle East, but rather works with a coalition of nations supporting Muslim troops on the ground. |
| 1.37am GMT01:37 | 1.37am GMT01:37 |
| Martin Pengelly | Martin Pengelly |
| It turns out I, the weekend editor, edging into this blog only briefly, am friends with one of the passionate, opinionated young people (“millennials”?) whom ABC has corralled into a room for some passionate, opinionated debate over the, well, passionate and opinionated debate to come. I looked up here at Guardian HQ and, swipe me, there he was on the screen. | |
| Will Ackerly, for it is he – as is this, most impressively – reports from the room: “The debate in here is incredibly passionate.” | Will Ackerly, for it is he – as is this, most impressively – reports from the room: “The debate in here is incredibly passionate.” |
| “Not much discussion on national security yet,” Will adds. | “Not much discussion on national security yet,” Will adds. |
| Updated at 1.57am GMT | |
| 1.32am GMT01:32 | 1.32am GMT01:32 |
| It’s 8.31pm and ABC has aired snappy quotes of the three candidates sounding impassioned! | It’s 8.31pm and ABC has aired snappy quotes of the three candidates sounding impassioned! |
| “Much has changed in the world since they last debated five weeks ago,” Martha Raddatz tells the crowd. Then she introduces Hillary Clinton, Martin O’Malley and Bernie Sanders. | “Much has changed in the world since they last debated five weeks ago,” Martha Raddatz tells the crowd. Then she introduces Hillary Clinton, Martin O’Malley and Bernie Sanders. |
| 1.21am GMT01:21 | 1.21am GMT01:21 |
| It’s almost as though the Democratic National Committee doesn’t really want us to watch … | It’s almost as though the Democratic National Committee doesn’t really want us to watch … |
| BTW, the next Democratic debate is on a Sunday (Jan. 17). The final two are after New Hampshire. | BTW, the next Democratic debate is on a Sunday (Jan. 17). The final two are after New Hampshire. |
| During the NFL playoffs! https://t.co/xtJn4rcmpk | During the NFL playoffs! https://t.co/xtJn4rcmpk |
| (It’s also the three-day weekend of Martin Luther King Day…) | (It’s also the three-day weekend of Martin Luther King Day…) |
| This may be the first presidential debate geared solely for an audience of shut-ins. Who do not have remote controls. | This may be the first presidential debate geared solely for an audience of shut-ins. Who do not have remote controls. |
| When I am president, debates will start and end on time. | When I am president, debates will start and end on time. |
| Updated at 1.29am GMT | Updated at 1.29am GMT |
| 1.07am GMT01:07 | 1.07am GMT01:07 |
| The pre-debate moderator chatter begins! The talking heads are excited, and already describing Bernie Sanders as the frontrunner in New Hampshire, if also the 31-point underdog around the US. | The pre-debate moderator chatter begins! The talking heads are excited, and already describing Bernie Sanders as the frontrunner in New Hampshire, if also the 31-point underdog around the US. |
| They point out that eight years ago Hillary Clinton had a +30-point lead over some senator named Barack Obama. And they do have a point that Sanders enjoys exceptionally strong support from a loud minority of progressives around the country. | They point out that eight years ago Hillary Clinton had a +30-point lead over some senator named Barack Obama. And they do have a point that Sanders enjoys exceptionally strong support from a loud minority of progressives around the country. |
| Kshama Sawant, a Seattle city council member with the Socialist Alternative party, has launched an independent organization to back Sanders. My colleague Chris McGreal points out that Sawant spearheaded the $15 minimum wage law that passed in Seattle earlier this year. She just won re-election, and thanked Sanders for the victory. | Kshama Sawant, a Seattle city council member with the Socialist Alternative party, has launched an independent organization to back Sanders. My colleague Chris McGreal points out that Sawant spearheaded the $15 minimum wage law that passed in Seattle earlier this year. She just won re-election, and thanked Sanders for the victory. |
| Updated at 1.11am GMT | Updated at 1.11am GMT |
| 12.51am GMT00:51 | 12.51am GMT00:51 |
| T-minus nine minutes till ABC stops airing college football and turns to what Americans really want on a Saturday night: policy wonkery from the three people who want to run the United States. | T-minus nine minutes till ABC stops airing college football and turns to what Americans really want on a Saturday night: policy wonkery from the three people who want to run the United States. |
| Outside the college hall, the Guardian’s DC chief Dan Roberts found some motley protesters who can barely contain themselves with excitement. | Outside the college hall, the Guardian’s DC chief Dan Roberts found some motley protesters who can barely contain themselves with excitement. |
| 12.47am GMT00:47 | 12.47am GMT00:47 |
| Self-declared democratic socialist, enemy of the big banks and … friend of the NRA? Not quite, but Bernie Sanders may be on the defensive over gun control tonight, despite his D-minus grade from the pro-gun group. | Self-declared democratic socialist, enemy of the big banks and … friend of the NRA? Not quite, but Bernie Sanders may be on the defensive over gun control tonight, despite his D-minus grade from the pro-gun group. |
| My colleague Sabrina Siddiqui looks at how the Vermont senator’s voting record could haunt him in a year of high-profile shootings and the long-awaited return of gun control to the debate stage. | My colleague Sabrina Siddiqui looks at how the Vermont senator’s voting record could haunt him in a year of high-profile shootings and the long-awaited return of gun control to the debate stage. |
| Sanders has struggled to explain his support for a bill in 2005 that granted legal protections to gun manufacturers. Attacked by Clinton and O’Malley during the last debate, Sanders said he voted for “a large and complicated bill”. Clinton countered by pointing out that she had voted against the same measure and had not found it “that complicated”. | Sanders has struggled to explain his support for a bill in 2005 that granted legal protections to gun manufacturers. Attacked by Clinton and O’Malley during the last debate, Sanders said he voted for “a large and complicated bill”. Clinton countered by pointing out that she had voted against the same measure and had not found it “that complicated”. |
| Other votes from Sanders’s past also put him at odds with the majority of Democrats and instead on the side of the NRA. | Other votes from Sanders’s past also put him at odds with the majority of Democrats and instead on the side of the NRA. |
| In 2006, as a member of the House of Representatives, Sanders voted in favor of a bill that would have made it harder for law enforcement to revoke the licenses of gun dealers who violated federal laws. Although the measure was bipartisan, the majority of Democrats,123, voted against. Sixty-three voted for it. | In 2006, as a member of the House of Representatives, Sanders voted in favor of a bill that would have made it harder for law enforcement to revoke the licenses of gun dealers who violated federal laws. Although the measure was bipartisan, the majority of Democrats,123, voted against. Sixty-three voted for it. |
| There was also a House vote in 1993 on an amendment that would have established a loophole in the waiting period for background checks. Under the amendment, backed by Sanders, a gun purchase would proceed by default if the background check was not completed within one business day. The amendment was to be part of the Brady Bill, landmark legislation that mandated federal background checks. Ultimately, it was tweaked to a three-day period. | There was also a House vote in 1993 on an amendment that would have established a loophole in the waiting period for background checks. Under the amendment, backed by Sanders, a gun purchase would proceed by default if the background check was not completed within one business day. The amendment was to be part of the Brady Bill, landmark legislation that mandated federal background checks. Ultimately, it was tweaked to a three-day period. |
| Related: Sanders gets defensive on gun control as Clinton tightens hold ahead of debate | Related: Sanders gets defensive on gun control as Clinton tightens hold ahead of debate |
| 12.36am GMT00:36 | 12.36am GMT00:36 |
| The Democratic race already got a little a personal this week, when Bernie Sanders accused Hillary Clinton of facilitating extremism in Libya this week. | The Democratic race already got a little a personal this week, when Bernie Sanders accused Hillary Clinton of facilitating extremism in Libya this week. |
| He told my colleague Dan Roberts in a pre-debate interview she voted for intervention “without worrying, I think, about what happened the day after and the kind of instability and the rise of Isis that we have seen in Libya.” | He told my colleague Dan Roberts in a pre-debate interview she voted for intervention “without worrying, I think, about what happened the day after and the kind of instability and the rise of Isis that we have seen in Libya.” |
| “Regime change without worrying about what happens the day after you get rid of the dictator does not make a lot of sense,” Sanders said. | “Regime change without worrying about what happens the day after you get rid of the dictator does not make a lot of sense,” Sanders said. |
| “I voted against the war in Iraq ... Secretary Clinton voted for that war. She was proud to have been involved in regime change in Libya, with [Muammar] Gaddafi, without worrying, I think, about what happened the day after and the kind of instability and the rise of Isis that we have seen in Libya.” | “I voted against the war in Iraq ... Secretary Clinton voted for that war. She was proud to have been involved in regime change in Libya, with [Muammar] Gaddafi, without worrying, I think, about what happened the day after and the kind of instability and the rise of Isis that we have seen in Libya.” |
| Clinton has previously defended her role in airstrikes against Gaddafi in 2011, arguing he was a “murderous dictator ... who had American blood on his hands” and there was pressure for US action from European and Arab allies. | Clinton has previously defended her role in airstrikes against Gaddafi in 2011, arguing he was a “murderous dictator ... who had American blood on his hands” and there was pressure for US action from European and Arab allies. |
| Related: Sanders: Clinton's pursuit of 'regime change' in Libya helped rise of Isis | Related: Sanders: Clinton's pursuit of 'regime change' in Libya helped rise of Isis |
| 12.26am GMT00:26 | 12.26am GMT00:26 |
| The Democratic National Committee, apparently not content to schedule a debate at the odd hour of 8pm the Saturday before Christmas – Sanders and O’Malley have complained – has also decided to deter the press by telling them to congregate in an ice-skating rink. | The Democratic National Committee, apparently not content to schedule a debate at the odd hour of 8pm the Saturday before Christmas – Sanders and O’Malley have complained – has also decided to deter the press by telling them to congregate in an ice-skating rink. |
| My colleague Lauren Gambino tweets rink-side, where debate officials have handed hand warmers. | My colleague Lauren Gambino tweets rink-side, where debate officials have handed hand warmers. |
| It's as cold as it look. #DemDebate DemDebate pic.twitter.com/HhT2r1eqvG | It's as cold as it look. #DemDebate DemDebate pic.twitter.com/HhT2r1eqvG |
| 12.15am GMT00:15 | 12.15am GMT00:15 |
| What’s this voter database kerfuffle about, anyway? My colleague Ben Jacobs takes apart the odd political scandal, and rules that everybody – Clinton, Sanders, the Democratic party – comes out a loser: | What’s this voter database kerfuffle about, anyway? My colleague Ben Jacobs takes apart the odd political scandal, and rules that everybody – Clinton, Sanders, the Democratic party – comes out a loser: |
| The drama started on Wednesday morning, when several Sanders campaign staffers discovered that due to a software glitch in the voter file shared by all Democratic presidential campaigns, they could see proprietary data of the Clinton campaign. | The drama started on Wednesday morning, when several Sanders campaign staffers discovered that due to a software glitch in the voter file shared by all Democratic presidential campaigns, they could see proprietary data of the Clinton campaign. |
| The staffers started exploring. In particular, they looked at the support scores the Clinton campaign had compiled in different states. This is proprietary information generated when a campaign, based on polling, modeling and demographic data, estimates the likelihood of a given voter’s support. | The staffers started exploring. In particular, they looked at the support scores the Clinton campaign had compiled in different states. This is proprietary information generated when a campaign, based on polling, modeling and demographic data, estimates the likelihood of a given voter’s support. |
| The Sanders staffers said that they were only looking at the information in order to test the vulnerabilities of the system. The DNC and the Clinton campaign insisted they were looking to take advantage of the glitch. | The Sanders staffers said that they were only looking at the information in order to test the vulnerabilities of the system. The DNC and the Clinton campaign insisted they were looking to take advantage of the glitch. |
| It is likely that aspects of both answers are correct. Political staffers are trained to be aggressive and that it’s always safer to beg forgiveness than ask permission. Without any effort, the Sanders staffers were given a rare window into the Clinton campaign’s internal efforts. It would have been hard to resist. | It is likely that aspects of both answers are correct. Political staffers are trained to be aggressive and that it’s always safer to beg forgiveness than ask permission. Without any effort, the Sanders staffers were given a rare window into the Clinton campaign’s internal efforts. It would have been hard to resist. |
| The Clinton campaign claimed that “our data was stolen”, but that doesn’t seem to have been the case. What the Sanders staffers did was more like rifling through someone’s belongings and eyeballing each object – before putting it back. | The Clinton campaign claimed that “our data was stolen”, but that doesn’t seem to have been the case. What the Sanders staffers did was more like rifling through someone’s belongings and eyeballing each object – before putting it back. |
| Such actions were unprecedented, though, and should embarrass the Sanders campaign. Even if it wasn’t an intentional hack, it represented remarkably bad judgment. | Such actions were unprecedented, though, and should embarrass the Sanders campaign. Even if it wasn’t an intentional hack, it represented remarkably bad judgment. |
| And then the DNC overreacted and cut off the Sanders campaign’s access to the voter file. Every list of voters to target comes out of the voter file, whether it is intended to find volunteers, identify supporters or raise money. Every bit of data a campaign collects goes back into the voter file. | And then the DNC overreacted and cut off the Sanders campaign’s access to the voter file. Every list of voters to target comes out of the voter file, whether it is intended to find volunteers, identify supporters or raise money. Every bit of data a campaign collects goes back into the voter file. |
| It is as essential to a campaign as electricity is to any household. In an unprecedented move, the DNC pulled the plug. | It is as essential to a campaign as electricity is to any household. In an unprecedented move, the DNC pulled the plug. |
| Related: Democratic debate: candidates to clash amid data scandal that hurts all involved | Related: Democratic debate: candidates to clash amid data scandal that hurts all involved |
| 11.45pm GMT23:45 | 11.45pm GMT23:45 |
| Live from Manchester, New Hampshire, it’s debate night! Welcome to our live coverage of the third Democratic presidential debate, and thanks for joining us. | Live from Manchester, New Hampshire, it’s debate night! Welcome to our live coverage of the third Democratic presidential debate, and thanks for joining us. |
| Tonight’s debate is at St Anselm College, a Catholic liberal arts school where finals just ended, freeing undergrads for the holidays. No such luck for the three Democratic contenders for president, who’ve been called away from their families to face each other and a televised test on foreign affairs and America. | Tonight’s debate is at St Anselm College, a Catholic liberal arts school where finals just ended, freeing undergrads for the holidays. No such luck for the three Democratic contenders for president, who’ve been called away from their families to face each other and a televised test on foreign affairs and America. |
| But while the Democrats shared some good cheer in their first two debates, don’t expect the holiday spirit to make an appearance tonight. The Democratic race took a strange and dramatic turn this week, when staffers for the campaign of Senator Bernie Sanders, progressives’ beloved anti-Scrooge, exploited a voter database glitch to look at proprietary data of Hillary Clinton’s campaign. The Democratic National Committee suspended Sanders from using the critical shared database, Sanders sued, and the DNC backed down. | But while the Democrats shared some good cheer in their first two debates, don’t expect the holiday spirit to make an appearance tonight. The Democratic race took a strange and dramatic turn this week, when staffers for the campaign of Senator Bernie Sanders, progressives’ beloved anti-Scrooge, exploited a voter database glitch to look at proprietary data of Hillary Clinton’s campaign. The Democratic National Committee suspended Sanders from using the critical shared database, Sanders sued, and the DNC backed down. |
| Staffers for Clinton, the presidential candidate of Christmas past, accused the rival campaign of stealing, and everybody came out bruised, confused and feeling hostile. Third candidate Martin O’Malley, former governor of Maryland, was somewhere off to the side, doing something down at 3%. | Staffers for Clinton, the presidential candidate of Christmas past, accused the rival campaign of stealing, and everybody came out bruised, confused and feeling hostile. Third candidate Martin O’Malley, former governor of Maryland, was somewhere off to the side, doing something down at 3%. |
| Clinton leads Sanders 56% to 28% nationally, but trails him 47% to 45% in New Hampshire, according to poll averages. Their duel (truel?) with O’Malley, over national security, gun control, foreign affairs and more, is slated to start at 8pm ET. | Clinton leads Sanders 56% to 28% nationally, but trails him 47% to 45% in New Hampshire, according to poll averages. Their duel (truel?) with O’Malley, over national security, gun control, foreign affairs and more, is slated to start at 8pm ET. |
| Along for the ride this evening here at Guardian US are: | Along for the ride this evening here at Guardian US are: |
| Updated at 12.00am GMT | Updated at 12.00am GMT |