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| Version 14 | Version 15 |
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| Shorten and Turnbull trade blows over negative gearing – politics live | Shorten and Turnbull trade blows over negative gearing – politics live |
| (35 minutes later) | |
| 5.54am GMT | |
| 05:54 | |
| Reading each statement in context, this is what I think. I think Andrew Wilkie was perfectly entitled to call Dutton out on his self-harm/blackmail remark, which was quite something (as I noted covering it in real time.) | |
| Dutton has a habit of making general declarations about such things without feeling much obligation to peg himself to facts: actual examples, actual cases, that would support such a serious allegation. It’s always inference, political word painting with a clear object of presenting behaviour as undesirable, and being called periodically on your sledge is an essential part of a healthy democracy. If he gets called more often, perhaps the minister will be more careful in his characterisations. | |
| But in terms of the Marles rationale – the analysis that said Wilkie hasn’t represented precisely what Dutton said, therefore we can’t support this censure motion – it is actually possible to read Dutton’s comment this afternoon as one of his many general statements that I’ll categorise as “what these (dreadful) people” do – rather than a specific reflection on this particular case involving the baby in Brisbane. | |
| There’s a small fig leaf there. I don’t regard the fig leaf as particularly compelling, but it is there. Convenient for Marles that the tiny fig leaf is there, because here is the actual truth: Labor really doesn’t want the current debate about the treatment of this child and other children in immigration detention. It would really like this debate to go the hell away. | |
| Labor is caught, as the party always is, between “traditional” Labor voters who absolutely support policies like Operation Sovereign Borders and progressive Labor voters who are completely disgusted by the policy. This asylum debate for Labor is like a scab that won’t heal. Which is, of course, a fact not lost on the Greens, who want progressive voters to defect and stay. | |
| One more thing should be noted about the circumstances of the baby. Because the government tells us nothing about its own behaviour concerning asylum seekers, and about their practical circumstances far out of sight and out of mind, we don’t know specifics about this case. We really don’t know key facts that would be useful to know in order to make a judgment about this specific case. And rather than pursuing a policy of disclosure and transparency, the government simply blames reporters for getting detail wrong, and characterises advocates for the asylum seekers as pursuing a strategy of boosting their own media profiles (as if this is something a person of conscience would actually contemplate doing). | |
| Those immutable facts, and the inevitable overlay of politics, tend render these discussions incredibly suboptimal. We journalists can’t keep the public properly informed because the government won’t allow us to do that, and the government then blames us for failing to be accurate. It’s a disgrace, and the absurdity of fictions, the absurdity of the policy contortions, the deeply irritating false binaries and false equivalences in this debate, are obviously unsustainable to anyone who looks at this area for more than five minutes. | |
| Thus ends my analysis. | |
| 5.22am GMT | 5.22am GMT |
| 05:22 | 05:22 |
| Rightio, several readers have been in touch wondering how it is that Richard Marles can say Labor doesn’t support the Wilkie motion (censuring Peter Dutton) on the basis the wording was over egged. The only way to get to the bottom of this is backtrack to the motion, which I missed, because it was brought on on the fly. | Rightio, several readers have been in touch wondering how it is that Richard Marles can say Labor doesn’t support the Wilkie motion (censuring Peter Dutton) on the basis the wording was over egged. The only way to get to the bottom of this is backtrack to the motion, which I missed, because it was brought on on the fly. |
| Thanks to Andrew Wilkie’s office, here is the motion put this afternoon. | Thanks to Andrew Wilkie’s office, here is the motion put this afternoon. |
| That the minister for immigration and border protection be censured for implying that the baby Asha was deliberately harmed as a means of facilitating asylum seeker access to Australia. | That the minister for immigration and border protection be censured for implying that the baby Asha was deliberately harmed as a means of facilitating asylum seeker access to Australia. |
| So let’s work through this carefully. | So let’s work through this carefully. |
| In question time, Dutton said the following. | In question time, Dutton said the following. |
| I’m not going to conduct a situation, not going to preside over a situation where we have people self harming to come to hospitals in this country because they believe that is the route out into the Australian community for Australian citizenship. | I’m not going to conduct a situation, not going to preside over a situation where we have people self harming to come to hospitals in this country because they believe that is the route out into the Australian community for Australian citizenship. |
| This remark was in response to a question from Adam Bandt. Here was his question, which went to Turnbull before it was redirected to Dutton. | This remark was in response to a question from Adam Bandt. Here was his question, which went to Turnbull before it was redirected to Dutton. |
| Adam Bandt: | Adam Bandt: |
| Q: Doctors have said that returning baby Asha to detention would harm her. Your immigration minister has decided not to send her to Nauru for the time being but said it will happen later. Prime minister, do you agree with the doctors that detention harms children or are you waiting until after the election to deport babies and children to Nauru? | Q: Doctors have said that returning baby Asha to detention would harm her. Your immigration minister has decided not to send her to Nauru for the time being but said it will happen later. Prime minister, do you agree with the doctors that detention harms children or are you waiting until after the election to deport babies and children to Nauru? |
| This was Dutton’s full answer. To make a fair judgment I think we need the full answer. | This was Dutton’s full answer. To make a fair judgment I think we need the full answer. |
| Peter Dutton: | Peter Dutton: |
| Thank you very much, Mr Speaker. I thank the member for his question. Last year when the shadow immigration minister addressed the Labor party conference and he said that Labor regretted the decisions they made which resulted in children drowning at sea, I thought his words were profound and I thought they were genuine, I thought they were sincere and it’s why the Labor party decided to move away from the policy which had seen 50,000 people arrive on 800 boats and 1,200 people drowned at sea. | Thank you very much, Mr Speaker. I thank the member for his question. Last year when the shadow immigration minister addressed the Labor party conference and he said that Labor regretted the decisions they made which resulted in children drowning at sea, I thought his words were profound and I thought they were genuine, I thought they were sincere and it’s why the Labor party decided to move away from the policy which had seen 50,000 people arrive on 800 boats and 1,200 people drowned at sea. |
| Since Operation Sovereign Borders has been implemented we have been able to stare down the threat from people smugglers. Not one death at sea has been reported over that period. We have the ability to turn back boats where it’s safe to do so and it’s the policy of both government and opposition in this country to continue regional processing because we know that it works in stopping the boats. Now we are working with third countries to try and provide alternative arrangements but we have been very clear and I repeat this today, because the people smugglers listen to every word spoken in this place, spoken by premiers and other leaders around the country, let me be very clear to these people. | Since Operation Sovereign Borders has been implemented we have been able to stare down the threat from people smugglers. Not one death at sea has been reported over that period. We have the ability to turn back boats where it’s safe to do so and it’s the policy of both government and opposition in this country to continue regional processing because we know that it works in stopping the boats. Now we are working with third countries to try and provide alternative arrangements but we have been very clear and I repeat this today, because the people smugglers listen to every word spoken in this place, spoken by premiers and other leaders around the country, let me be very clear to these people. |
| We will not be held to ransom, we will not be blackmailed into changing this policy because this policy has resulted in lives being saved. And we are not going to retreat on what has been a successful policy because I’m not going to preside over an arrangement which the Greens presided over when they were in coalition with the Rudd and Gillard governments which saw children drown at sea. I’m not going to allow that to return. | We will not be held to ransom, we will not be blackmailed into changing this policy because this policy has resulted in lives being saved. And we are not going to retreat on what has been a successful policy because I’m not going to preside over an arrangement which the Greens presided over when they were in coalition with the Rudd and Gillard governments which saw children drown at sea. I’m not going to allow that to return. |
| We have said we will look at each case compassionately, on its merit, and we will decide in relation to those cases what is in the best interests of those children or of those families. | We have said we will look at each case compassionately, on its merit, and we will decide in relation to those cases what is in the best interests of those children or of those families. |
| I’m not going to conduct a situation, not going to preside over a situation where we have people self harming to come to hospitals in this country because they believe that is the route out into the Australian community for Australian citizenship. | I’m not going to conduct a situation, not going to preside over a situation where we have people self harming to come to hospitals in this country because they believe that is the route out into the Australian community for Australian citizenship. |
| Now we know that we will provide medical assistance, including to this baby, and including to other people we have brought to this country and when the medical assistance has been provided, Mr Speaker, to that family or to that individual, the policy of this government, the policy of the opposition is that that person will return to Nauru. We will provide support and assistance to return people back to their country of origin if they have found to be not under protection and that is the policy we will continue because we are not going to allow the people smugglers to get back into business. | Now we know that we will provide medical assistance, including to this baby, and including to other people we have brought to this country and when the medical assistance has been provided, Mr Speaker, to that family or to that individual, the policy of this government, the policy of the opposition is that that person will return to Nauru. We will provide support and assistance to return people back to their country of origin if they have found to be not under protection and that is the policy we will continue because we are not going to allow the people smugglers to get back into business. |
| I’ll let you think on that, before I come back in the next post and share my thoughts. | I’ll let you think on that, before I come back in the next post and share my thoughts. |
| 5.01am GMT | 5.01am GMT |
| 05:01 | 05:01 |
| I’ll try and track down the precise wording of that Wilkie motion. | I’ll try and track down the precise wording of that Wilkie motion. |
| In the meantime, here was that vote. | In the meantime, here was that vote. |
| The Gov & Oppos vote against @WilkieMP @Indigocathy and @AdamBandt as they attempt to censure Min Dutton @murpharoo pic.twitter.com/BvvywMsGJD | The Gov & Oppos vote against @WilkieMP @Indigocathy and @AdamBandt as they attempt to censure Min Dutton @murpharoo pic.twitter.com/BvvywMsGJD |
| 4.44am GMT | 4.44am GMT |
| 04:44 | 04:44 |
| 4.41am GMT | 4.41am GMT |
| 04:41 | 04:41 |
| Labor’s immigration spokesman Richard Marles says he won’t support the censure motion because it over eggs what Dutton said in the parliament during question time today. Marles says in this debate, it is very important to sift facts from spin. Marles says this debate has to be conducted on the basis of accurately representing what people say, not distorting what they say. | Labor’s immigration spokesman Richard Marles says he won’t support the censure motion because it over eggs what Dutton said in the parliament during question time today. Marles says in this debate, it is very important to sift facts from spin. Marles says this debate has to be conducted on the basis of accurately representing what people say, not distorting what they say. |
| The government is driving this through now. | The government is driving this through now. |
| 4.37am GMT | 4.37am GMT |
| 04:37 | 04:37 |
| Peter Dutton is back in the house. Dutton says in relation to baby Asha, I pass no judgment and make no comment in relation to (the circumstances of the baby’s injuries). He says he wants children out of detention and he’s not going to cop sanctimonious lectures from the Greens who presided over people drowning at sea. | Peter Dutton is back in the house. Dutton says in relation to baby Asha, I pass no judgment and make no comment in relation to (the circumstances of the baby’s injuries). He says he wants children out of detention and he’s not going to cop sanctimonious lectures from the Greens who presided over people drowning at sea. |
| Peter Dutton: | Peter Dutton: |
| This cooked up situation in parliament today needs to be seen for what it is. We are not going to tolerate these lectures from the Greens. That’s why the censure motion should be rejected. | This cooked up situation in parliament today needs to be seen for what it is. We are not going to tolerate these lectures from the Greens. That’s why the censure motion should be rejected. |
| 4.32am GMT | 4.32am GMT |
| 04:32 | 04:32 |
| The Wilkie motion is being seconded by Green Adam Bandt. He says there’s a certain inevitability in Australian politics, when the polls go down, the ugly goes up. Dutton’s remark he characterises as a disgusting and vile statement. | The Wilkie motion is being seconded by Green Adam Bandt. He says there’s a certain inevitability in Australian politics, when the polls go down, the ugly goes up. Dutton’s remark he characterises as a disgusting and vile statement. |
| 4.30am GMT | 4.30am GMT |
| 04:30 | 04:30 |
| 4.19am GMT | 4.19am GMT |
| 04:19 | 04:19 |
| No time to take stock. The Tasmanian independent Andrew Wilkie is attempting to censure the immigration minister Peter Dutton, for his remarks in question time about blackmail and self harm. | No time to take stock. The Tasmanian independent Andrew Wilkie is attempting to censure the immigration minister Peter Dutton, for his remarks in question time about blackmail and self harm. |
| Wilkie says the suggestion from Dutton today that self harm was being deployed as a route to citizenship was one of the ugliest things I have heard in this place in my time serving here. | Wilkie says the suggestion from Dutton today that self harm was being deployed as a route to citizenship was one of the ugliest things I have heard in this place in my time serving here. |
| The government clearly isn’t expecting this, and no initial effort is made to shut Wilkie down. Ah yes, they’ve cottoned on now. The gag has been moved. | The government clearly isn’t expecting this, and no initial effort is made to shut Wilkie down. Ah yes, they’ve cottoned on now. The gag has been moved. |
| 4.13am GMT | 4.13am GMT |
| 04:13 | 04:13 |
| Further questions have been placed on the notice paper. Give me a minute or two to take stock and I’ll be back with your political afternoon. | Further questions have been placed on the notice paper. Give me a minute or two to take stock and I’ll be back with your political afternoon. |
| 4.06am GMT | 4.06am GMT |
| 04:06 | 04:06 |
| New leadership. | New leadership. |
| 4.04am GMT | 4.04am GMT |
| 04:04 | 04:04 |
| Bowen is back now with a question to Scott Morrison. He wants to know if he agrees with the former treasurer, Joe Hockey, who said housing tax concessions should be directed towards new stock. Does Morrison agree with that, or did the former treasurer have a better understanding of the economy and housing market? | Bowen is back now with a question to Scott Morrison. He wants to know if he agrees with the former treasurer, Joe Hockey, who said housing tax concessions should be directed towards new stock. Does Morrison agree with that, or did the former treasurer have a better understanding of the economy and housing market? |
| Morrison wonders what Chris Bowen has against teachers and nurses. Whither teachers and nurses without their negative gearing concessions. | Morrison wonders what Chris Bowen has against teachers and nurses. Whither teachers and nurses without their negative gearing concessions. |
| Scott Morrison: | Scott Morrison: |
| Those opposite have no empathy for Australians who are working to pay tax in this country, Mr Speaker. They have no empathy for those who are trying to back themselves in, in this transitioning economy. What you get from them is a race for higher taxes! | Those opposite have no empathy for Australians who are working to pay tax in this country, Mr Speaker. They have no empathy for those who are trying to back themselves in, in this transitioning economy. What you get from them is a race for higher taxes! |
| Updated | Updated |
| at 4.47am GMT | at 4.47am GMT |
| 3.57am GMT | 3.57am GMT |
| 03:57 | 03:57 |
| Labor is back to capital gains tax. | Labor is back to capital gains tax. |
| Q: I refer to the prime minister’s answer a few moments ago in which he claimed reducing the capital gains discount would punish investors: “It will drive jobs away and drive investment away”. Is the prime minister aware that foreign investors in Australia don’t receive the capital gains discount? | Q: I refer to the prime minister’s answer a few moments ago in which he claimed reducing the capital gains discount would punish investors: “It will drive jobs away and drive investment away”. Is the prime minister aware that foreign investors in Australia don’t receive the capital gains discount? |
| The prime minister thinks the shadow treasurer, Chris Bowen, is very silly. Very very silly. Doesn’t he know we are trying to get those bright kids back from Silicon Valley? | The prime minister thinks the shadow treasurer, Chris Bowen, is very silly. Very very silly. Doesn’t he know we are trying to get those bright kids back from Silicon Valley? |
| The prime minister also has a little thought for Bowen. There are nearly twice as many people in his electorate that are negatively geared as votes needed to change hands for him to lose his seat. | The prime minister also has a little thought for Bowen. There are nearly twice as many people in his electorate that are negatively geared as votes needed to change hands for him to lose his seat. |
| He should think about that. | He should think about that. |
| 3.49am GMT | 3.49am GMT |
| 03:49 | 03:49 |
| I’ll float a couple of observations while Barnaby Joyce answers his first question as deputy prime minister. | I’ll float a couple of observations while Barnaby Joyce answers his first question as deputy prime minister. |
| The prime minister in attack mode is playing against his natural strength, which is charm. First point. | The prime minister in attack mode is playing against his natural strength, which is charm. First point. |
| Second point, Turnbull is busy styling himself as the defender of capital in question time today, which I suspect at the crass intra-day political level, Labor won’t be entirely unhappy about. | Second point, Turnbull is busy styling himself as the defender of capital in question time today, which I suspect at the crass intra-day political level, Labor won’t be entirely unhappy about. |
| Moving forward. | Moving forward. |
| 3.44am GMT | 3.44am GMT |
| 03:44 | 03:44 |
| Bill Shorten, to the prime minister. | Bill Shorten, to the prime minister. |
| Q: Does the prime minister think it’s fair under his government’s policy an investor buying their 7th home will receive more taxpayer subsidies from his government be a first home buyer? | Q: Does the prime minister think it’s fair under his government’s policy an investor buying their 7th home will receive more taxpayer subsidies from his government be a first home buyer? |
| Oh Bill, you are very silly about business, the prime minister thinks. | Oh Bill, you are very silly about business, the prime minister thinks. |
| Malcolm Turnbull: | Malcolm Turnbull: |
| Mr Speaker, every investor is entitled to deduct the interest expense of the borrowings they incur in order to buy an income-producing asset and that is true whether it is a farm or a shop or shares in a public company or whether it is rental property. So there is nothing remarkable, unusual or unorthodox about buying property and borrowing money to buy it – and if the interest loss is greater than the rent, being able to deduct that loss. | Mr Speaker, every investor is entitled to deduct the interest expense of the borrowings they incur in order to buy an income-producing asset and that is true whether it is a farm or a shop or shares in a public company or whether it is rental property. So there is nothing remarkable, unusual or unorthodox about buying property and borrowing money to buy it – and if the interest loss is greater than the rent, being able to deduct that loss. |
| Labor can’t add up, the prime minister says. | Labor can’t add up, the prime minister says. |
| 3.40am GMT | 3.40am GMT |
| 03:40 | 03:40 |
| Oh, sorry, I get it. Blackmailed by people who have a legal right to seek Australia’s protection under the refugee convention. | Oh, sorry, I get it. Blackmailed by people who have a legal right to seek Australia’s protection under the refugee convention. |
| Those blackmailers. | Those blackmailers. |
| Peter Dutton: | Peter Dutton: |
| I’m not going to conduct a situation, not going to preside over a situation where we have people self harming to come to hospitals in this country because they believe that is the route out into the Australian community for Australian citizenship. | I’m not going to conduct a situation, not going to preside over a situation where we have people self harming to come to hospitals in this country because they believe that is the route out into the Australian community for Australian citizenship. |
| 3.38am GMT | 3.38am GMT |
| 03:38 | 03:38 |
| Green Adam Bandt asks the prime minister about baby Asha. | Green Adam Bandt asks the prime minister about baby Asha. |
| Q: Do you agree with the doctors that detention harms children or are you waiting until after the election to deport babies and children to Nauru? | Q: Do you agree with the doctors that detention harms children or are you waiting until after the election to deport babies and children to Nauru? |
| Turnbull waves that to the immigration minister Peter Dutton. | Turnbull waves that to the immigration minister Peter Dutton. |
| We have been very clear and I repeat this today, because the people smugglers listen to every word spoken in this place, spoken by premiers and other leaders around the country, let me be very clear to these people. | We have been very clear and I repeat this today, because the people smugglers listen to every word spoken in this place, spoken by premiers and other leaders around the country, let me be very clear to these people. |
| We will not be held to ransom, we will not be blackmailed into changing this policy because this policy has resulted in lives being saved. And we are not going to retreat on what has been a successful policy. | We will not be held to ransom, we will not be blackmailed into changing this policy because this policy has resulted in lives being saved. And we are not going to retreat on what has been a successful policy. |
| (Blackmailed by whom? Anyone know?) | (Blackmailed by whom? Anyone know?) |
| 3.34am GMT | 3.34am GMT |
| 03:34 | 03:34 |
| Shadow treasurer, Chris Bowen, to Turnbull. | Shadow treasurer, Chris Bowen, to Turnbull. |
| Q: Will the prime minister rule out making any retrospective changes to negative gearing, yes or no? | Q: Will the prime minister rule out making any retrospective changes to negative gearing, yes or no? |
| Turnbull says tax policies will be considered and rolled out in the usual way. | Turnbull says tax policies will be considered and rolled out in the usual way. |
| He’s now onto the fantasy land of the Labor party where there is a hankering for a centrally planned economy and manifest threats to the economy. | He’s now onto the fantasy land of the Labor party where there is a hankering for a centrally planned economy and manifest threats to the economy. |
| 3.29am GMT | 3.29am GMT |
| 03:29 | 03:29 |
| The prime minister tracks back to negative gearing, and Labor’s policy. Whither house values. | The prime minister tracks back to negative gearing, and Labor’s policy. Whither house values. |
| Malcolm Turnbull: | Malcolm Turnbull: |
| Mr Speaker, every single Australian recognises that the bulk of most family’s assets are in their homes. It’s well over 65% across the board. So you knock that price down, you knock that value down, that’s what Labor’s proposing to do, cut out over a third of the demand, knock that price down. What does that do for consumer confidence? Are people going to go out and buy a new appliance, borrow money to start a small business, are they going to hire somebody if they see their greatest asset shrinking before their eyes at the hands of the Labor party? | Mr Speaker, every single Australian recognises that the bulk of most family’s assets are in their homes. It’s well over 65% across the board. So you knock that price down, you knock that value down, that’s what Labor’s proposing to do, cut out over a third of the demand, knock that price down. What does that do for consumer confidence? Are people going to go out and buy a new appliance, borrow money to start a small business, are they going to hire somebody if they see their greatest asset shrinking before their eyes at the hands of the Labor party? |
| Mr Speaker, every measure they propose is calculated to drive our economy into the ground! | Mr Speaker, every measure they propose is calculated to drive our economy into the ground! |
| Updated | Updated |
| at 4.47am GMT | at 4.47am GMT |