This article is from the source 'guardian' and was first published or seen on . It last changed over 40 days ago and won't be checked again for changes.
You can find the current article at its original source at https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/live/2016/jun/01/eu-debate-the-most-abusive-political-campaign-ever-in-britain-live
The article has changed 7 times. There is an RSS feed of changes available.
| Version 0 | Version 1 |
|---|---|
| EU debate: the most abusive political campaign ever in Britain? – live | EU debate: the most abusive political campaign ever in Britain? – live |
| (35 minutes later) | |
| 12.29pm BST | |
| 12:29 | |
| James Walsh | |
| Comments are open and readers’ views are pouring in. | |
| Obviously Guardian commenters are far less rude than politicians, so we’ve seen some good debate points already. | |
| A popular view is that the media are as much to blame as the politicians. | |
| The media and politicians have both been god awful. Gary Young's article that abuse was perhaps not the best way to win over the opposition was welcome, but unopened to comments, and I can't help but think given the line taken by many in articles at the G it was published in part as a reaction to the poll which showed a 2% leave lead. | |
| Some BTL has been excellent, sources given, debate, back and forth, and more power to all involved. Some had just been abuse. If I read the comments at a paper that leaned the other way the abuse might be aimed more at remainers, but seeing as I don't it has appeared to me to be definitely slanted to one side. | |
| ATL I stopped expecting balance or actual facts a long time ago. | |
| Politicians. All handicapped by party. Cameron, his back benchers, Corbyn, his parliamentary party. One study I saw said that Euroscepticism was higher amongst SNP supporters than Scotland as a whole. The Lib Dems are pretty much an irrelevance and UKIP don't have a party to worry about. | |
| You can read Gary Younge’s piece here - it was open to comments, and received thousands of them. | |
| Related: Ridiculing Brexiters is a sure way to lose the argument for staying in the EU | Gary Younge | |
| 12.15pm BST | |
| 12:15 | |
| The EU referendum campaign does not seem unduly abusive | |
| Andrew Sparrow | |
| So, Jon Snow says he cannot recall a “worse-tempered or more abusive, more boring UK campaign” than the one we’re having at the moment about EU membership. He thinks it compares particularly unfavourably with Scotland’s independence referendum in 2014. | |
| Snow clearly did not spend much time on Twitter two years ago. The independence referendum was an uplifting exercise in democratic engagement, prompting a remarkable 85% turnout, but the debate was not all worthy of Cicero, social media got distinctly unpleasant and it culminating in a large crowd descending on the BBC’s HQ in Glasgow to demand the sacking of Nick Robinson for having the temerity to report something disobliging about Alex Salmond. | |
| Even by the standards of a normal general election, the EU referendum campaign does not seem unduly abusive. That is because general elections are about choosing prime ministers, personality is inevitably a legitimate subject of debate and, as figures like Neil Kinnock, John Major and Gordon Brown can attest, vicious, media-driven character assassination is a familiar part of the electoral process. This contest is relatively free of that. | |
| But Snow has got a point about “the wholesale abuse of facts”. There is nothing unusual about politicians using facts selectively, and in this campaign both sides have been criticised for using misleading material, but the Leave camp, with their entirely bogus flagship claim about EU membership costing the UK £350m a week, seem to be setting a new precedent. It is almost as if they have looked at the success of Donald Trump, a one-man lie factory, and decided to road test quite how much dishonesty you can get away with in a British election. The results of the experiment, of course, remain to be seen. | |
| 12.09pm BST | |
| 12:09 | |
| Where are all the women in the EU debate? | |
| Sarah Marsh | |
| The prominent voices in the EU debate have been Boris Johnson, David Cameron, Alan Johnson, and Nigel Farage etc, but where are all the female voices? The discussion has (depressingly and predictably) been dominated by men in suits. | |
| Harriet Harman, Labour’s former deputy leader, has even written to Ofcom to complain that male politicians are being allowed to dominate the EU referendum debate on the airwaves. A Loughborough University report said only one in 10 contributors to the EU debate in the national press were women. | |
| This is woeful, especially considering statistics that showed women are almost twice as likely to answer “don’t know” in most EU referendum polls; and while 43% of men are certain which way they will vote, that drops to just 29% of women. | |
| So, where is the female voice in this debate? Why has it been missing? Leaving the EU could have a more direct impact on women’s rights as without EU protection they could be undermined (under the guise of cutting red tape). Keen to hear what people think about this below the line. | |
| 11.48am BST | 11.48am BST |
| 11:48 | 11:48 |
| Sarah Marsh | Sarah Marsh |
| Kicking off in 10 minutes, keyboards at the ready! | Kicking off in 10 minutes, keyboards at the ready! |
| 10.38am BST | 10.38am BST |
| 10:38 | 10:38 |
| Welcome to the debate | Welcome to the debate |
| Sarah Marsh | Sarah Marsh |
| What do you think of how the EU referendum campaigns have been run? | What do you think of how the EU referendum campaigns have been run? |
| If the words “boring” and “abusive” spring to mind then Jon Snow would agree with you. Writing in the Radio Times the Channel 4 News presenter said he cannot remember a “worse-tempered or more abusive, more boring UK campaign”. | If the words “boring” and “abusive” spring to mind then Jon Snow would agree with you. Writing in the Radio Times the Channel 4 News presenter said he cannot remember a “worse-tempered or more abusive, more boring UK campaign”. |
| The veteran presenter compared the campaign unfavourably to the “coherent and comprehensible” precedent set by the 2014 referendum on Scottish independence, saying it has been dominated by abuse and “intemperate challenging of facts by both sides”. | The veteran presenter compared the campaign unfavourably to the “coherent and comprehensible” precedent set by the 2014 referendum on Scottish independence, saying it has been dominated by abuse and “intemperate challenging of facts by both sides”. |
| Snow came down heavily on the “use of name-calling and politicians on both sides conjuring the views of dead leaders – who, from the grave, are in no position to dispute the claims made in their names”. | Snow came down heavily on the “use of name-calling and politicians on both sides conjuring the views of dead leaders – who, from the grave, are in no position to dispute the claims made in their names”. |
| He added that the media’s coverage was “no way to run a chip shop, let alone an interesting and informative campaign for a vote upon which all our futures hang”. | He added that the media’s coverage was “no way to run a chip shop, let alone an interesting and informative campaign for a vote upon which all our futures hang”. |
| However, it could perhaps be argued that campaigns like this always inevitably get nasty, with politicians taking aim at one another. Is this really any different? Was the Scottish independence debate really less abusive and more coherent? | However, it could perhaps be argued that campaigns like this always inevitably get nasty, with politicians taking aim at one another. Is this really any different? Was the Scottish independence debate really less abusive and more coherent? |
| What do you think? Join us 12pm-2pm today to debate live below the line. Tell us whether you feel the EU debate has just been about bickering and mudslinging – has anyone impressed you? Who have been the worst offenders? What’s been missing in the campaign so far? Or perhaps you disagree with Snow’s comments. Tell us why. | What do you think? Join us 12pm-2pm today to debate live below the line. Tell us whether you feel the EU debate has just been about bickering and mudslinging – has anyone impressed you? Who have been the worst offenders? What’s been missing in the campaign so far? Or perhaps you disagree with Snow’s comments. Tell us why. |
| Comments will be open at noon. | Comments will be open at noon. |
| Updated | Updated |
| at 10.39am BST | at 10.39am BST |