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EU referendum live: Major and Blair campaign together in Northern Ireland
EU referendum live: Major and Blair campaign together in Northern Ireland
(35 minutes later)
12.18pm BST
12:18
Blair says they need to wind up soon.
Around the world people are coming together, he says.
For the UK to break apart from a set of relationship that has grown up over four decades, is not just wrong; it “goes against the grain of the future”, he says.
It is not just a case about now, says Blair. It is about how we manage the future too.
Leaving the EU is “about the worst thing we could do to prepare ourselves for that future properly”, he says.
12.14pm BST
12:14
Q: We will soon be leaving schools. How will students benefit from leaving, and what are the dangers of leaving?
Major says the questioner will want a productive job. He may want to look after himself and his family. People think of prosperity as an abstract thing. But if you have ever been in the position of not being able to pay a bill at the end of the week, you know that is not abstract.
I promise you, that never, ever leaves you.
Major says we are simply going to be better off by staying in.
12.12pm BST
12:12
Q: Remain say the economy of Northern Ireland will suffer if we leave. But wages are already low in Northern Ireland. How will it be worse?
Blair says there are many challenges for Northern Ireland. Governments have to do what they can to change that. But, if the UK leaves the EU, those problems become worse. It would be harder for Northern Ireland to attract investment.
If the government then wanted to retain access to the single market, it would have to allow free movement, like Norway. And the UK would have to contribute to the EU too. He says Norway’s per capita contribution is about the same as the UK’s.
He says remaining is not a solution to all these problems. But leaving will make the problems worse.
12.07pm BST
12:07
Q: The EU has invested significantly in Northern Ireland. Would a UK government continue with that level of funding?
Major says he and Blair have just visited the Peace Bridge.
He says investors invest in the UK because they want access to the EU market.
If the UK left the EU, it is “overwhelmingly likely” that investment into the UK would be much smaller.
12.04pm BST
12:04
Q: Peter Mandelson said last week Theresa Villiers, the Northern Ireland secretary, was irresponsible for backing Leave. Do you agree?
Blair says people are entitled to their views.
But anyone backing Leave has to answer questions such as the one about the common travel area.
Blair says Major is from a working class background and became a Conservative prime minister. He says he is from a middle class background and became a Labour prime minister.
He says his father grew up in the shadow of war. It is important to remember what the EU achieved, he says.
He says Europe stands for social protection. The Leave campaigner do not want this, he says.
He says it is “irresponsible” to back leaving without being able to answer basic questions.
Blair says he went to work as a barman in Paris shortly after the UK joined the EU. He says we should not give up the freedom to travel around Europe lightly.
12.01pm BST
12:01
Major and Blair's Q&A
Major and Blair are now taking questions.
Blair starts by saying he was a bit worried when the moderator said they would be facing their toughest audience. “That would be quite a high bar in my case,” he says.
Q: What reasons are there for working class people to stay in the EU?
Major says he is working class. He comes from Brixton. He was brought up in a two-bedroom house. It was a mixed community. He is not elite. People say Europe is just for elites, but that is “nonsense”. When the UK joined the EU, it was described as the sick man of Europe. Since then it has got much richer. It is projected to become the richest country in Europe.
He says when he was young, for a holiday people went to Brighton. Now young people can go around Europe without visas.
He says he objects strongly to the Leave campaign saying the EU is just for elites.
He says he and Blair are not going to be here in future. This is about young people. “Don’t go back to what our past was,” he says.
12.00pm BST
12:00
Updated
at 12.01pm BST
11.56am BST
11:56
Blair says the relationship with Ireland is better and stronger than ever before.
He was the first prime minister to address the Irish parliament, he says.
He says the EU, for all its faults, represents an enormous coming together of people.
The spirit that brought people together in Northern Ireland is one we need as we make this decision, he says.
11.54am BST
11:54
Blair says the Leave campaign have ignored the impact of Leave on the UK.
That is because their ideological preoccupation with leaving is more important to them than the consequences of leaving.
You should always distrust people who put ideology ahead of national interest, he says.
11.53am BST
11:53
Blair says if UK leaves EU, it would be impossible to keep common travel area with Ireland
Blair says people in the Leave camp are not interested in discussing the problems that might occur if the UK leaves the EU.
The common travel area between the Republic and Northern Ireland is a good example.
It started in the 1920s.
The UK and the Republic joined the EU at the same time. So the common travel area could continue.
If the UK leaves, what happens to it, he asks.
He says Leave say it will just stay.
But that would be difficult, or impossible.
He says it would be impossible to keep it because otherwise EU citizens could just to Ireland and cross into the UK.
You would have to have border checks, he says.
The problems of that would be “immense”.
But the only alternative would be border checks between Northern Ireland and the mainland, which would be unacceptable.
He says Brexit would put the union at risk. And it would put Northern Ireland at risk.
11.48am BST
11.48am BST
11:48
11:48
Tony Blair is speaking now.
Tony Blair is speaking now.
He says it is a real pleasure to be with Sir John Major. Whatever their differences, he has always had the highest respect for Major. He is someone who has always had the interests of Britain and Northern Ireland at heart.
He says it is a real pleasure to be with Sir John Major. Whatever their differences, he has always had the highest respect for Major. He is someone who has always had the interests of Britain and Northern Ireland at heart.
He says many in the audience are too young to remember this. But in the 1980s in Northern Ireland people lived in constant fear. Bringing about peace was not easy, but it was a vast cooperative effort. Major played an essential part, he says.
He says many in the audience are too young to remember this. But in the 1980s in Northern Ireland people lived in constant fear. Bringing about peace was not easy, but it was a vast cooperative effort. Major played an essential part, he says.
It involved people putting aside enmities and coming together.
It involved people putting aside enmities and coming together.
It was painstaking, he says.
It was painstaking, he says.
He says the Good Friday agreement also involved a new relationship between the UK and the Republic within the EU. They could come together in part because they were both members of the EU.
He says the Good Friday agreement also involved a new relationship between the UK and the Republic within the EU. They could come together in part because they were both members of the EU.
He says these things took a long time to put together. It is foolish to put them at risk, he says.
He says these things took a long time to put together. It is foolish to put them at risk, he says.
11.43am BST
11.43am BST
11:43
11:43
Major says Brexit would have “wholly negative effect” on UK relations with Ireland
Major says Brexit would have “wholly negative effect” on UK relations with Ireland
Major turns to Northern Ireland.
Major turns to Northern Ireland.
He says he and Blair know how carefully the peace process was put together.
He says he and Blair know how carefully the peace process was put together.
He says both men know about the stops and starts, and the compromises, involved in building a peace that will endure.
He says both men know about the stops and starts, and the compromises, involved in building a peace that will endure.
He says no problem took up more of his time as prime minister.
He says no problem took up more of his time as prime minister.
However routine the troubles were, he was convinced that it would be possible to bring peace to Northern Ireland, he says.
However routine the troubles were, he was convinced that it would be possible to bring peace to Northern Ireland, he says.
People were sick of the violence, he says.
People were sick of the violence, he says.
He says it is extraordinary to come to Northern Ireland and see a successful power-sharing agreement. Thirty years ago, that would have seemed impossible.
He says it is extraordinary to come to Northern Ireland and see a successful power-sharing agreement. Thirty years ago, that would have seemed impossible.
He says Brexit would put this at risk. It would “put all the pieces of the constitutional jigsaw up in the air again, and no one could be certain where they would land”.
He says Brexit would put this at risk. It would “put all the pieces of the constitutional jigsaw up in the air again, and no one could be certain where they would land”.
He says he accepts that relations between the UK and Ireland will prove cordial, whatever happens.
He says he accepts that relations between the UK and Ireland will prove cordial, whatever happens.
But if the UK leaves the EU, Ireland would be on the other side of the table. That would have a “wholly negative effect” on relations with Ireland.
But if the UK leaves the EU, Ireland would be on the other side of the table. That would have a “wholly negative effect” on relations with Ireland.
Major says it is not a coincidence that every living former prime minister, as well as the current one, thinks the UK should stay in the EU.
Major says it is not a coincidence that every living former prime minister, as well as the current one, thinks the UK should stay in the EU.
They have all seen how EU membership increases British influence, he says.
They have all seen how EU membership increases British influence, he says.
He says people should fight for the UK’s interests in Europe. That is the right choice for our country, he says.
He says people should fight for the UK’s interests in Europe. That is the right choice for our country, he says.
11.37am BST
11.37am BST
11:37
11:37
Major says the Scottish independence referendum should have settled that matter for a generation.
Major says the Scottish independence referendum should have settled that matter for a generation.
But, if Scotland votes to stay in the EU while the UK as a whole votes to leave, there is a “serious risk” of a second independence referendum.
But, if Scotland votes to stay in the EU while the UK as a whole votes to leave, there is a “serious risk” of a second independence referendum.
Pressure for a second vote could prove irresistible, he says.
Pressure for a second vote could prove irresistible, he says.
And he says, the next time, it is likely Scotland would vote to leave the UK.
And he says, the next time, it is likely Scotland would vote to leave the UK.
So England would be out of the EU, and the UK would have broken up.
So England would be out of the EU, and the UK would have broken up.
The “most successful union in world history” could be broken up for good, he says.
The “most successful union in world history” could be broken up for good, he says.
11.35am BST
11.35am BST
11:35
11:35
Major says 'the unity of the UK” is on the ballot paper
Major says 'the unity of the UK” is on the ballot paper
Sir John Major goes first.
Sir John Major goes first.
He says staying in the EU is good for Britain. But today he wants to focus on one argument in particular, he says.
He says staying in the EU is good for Britain. But today he wants to focus on one argument in particular, he says.
He says the UK is a union of four countries.
He says the UK is a union of four countries.
He says without a shadow of doubt that the wrong outcome will put the union in doubt.
He says without a shadow of doubt that the wrong outcome will put the union in doubt.
The unity of the UK is on the ballot paper, he says.
The unity of the UK is on the ballot paper, he says.
11.31am BST
11.31am BST
11:31
11:31
Major and Blair campaign together in Northern Ireland
Major and Blair campaign together in Northern Ireland
Sir John Major and Tony Blair at doing a joint Q&A with students in Northern Ireland now.
Sir John Major and Tony Blair at doing a joint Q&A with students in Northern Ireland now.
There is a live feed at the top of this blog.
There is a live feed at the top of this blog.
Updated
Updated
at 11.34am BST
at 11.34am BST
11.25am BST
11:25
Yvette Cooper accuses Boris Johnson and Gove of 'deliberately telling lies'
Jessica Elgot
At the Labour event in the Shard this morning Yvette Cooper, Labour’s former shadow home secretary, said Leave campaign had showed Boris Johnson was not fit to be prime minister, directly accusing the ex-mayor of lying in order to advance his own career.
Johnson, cited by polls as one of the most trusted figures by the public on the EU, would lose his reputation eventually, Cooper said.
Watch what happens over time to Boris Johnson’s reputation, the way he ignores the truth, and think he can have any kind of authority.
How could you have someone like that as a prime minister? Someone who is happy to rip up the facts and talk up complete fiction for his own personal interests. In the end, people will see through that.
She said Johnson and justice secretary Michael Gove were “deliberately telling lies” about Turkey’s accession to the EU, saying they were well aware such a scenario was a long way from reality.
They know this, they are not stupid, but they are deliberately misleading and manipulating the facts, deliberately telling lies.
I don’t know how they live with themselves, manipulating and telling lies in this way, they know what they are doing. I don’t know what their conscience is saying to them but they should really think hard about the way they are twisting and distorting this.
Cooper said she believed Johnson and Gove, both former journalists, believed they could “talk in politics as the same way as they used to as columnists, just to be provocative.”
11.21am BST
11:21
David Campbell Bannerman, a pro-Brexit Conservative MEP who was a special adviser in the Northern Ireland Office when Major was prime minister, is also accusing the two former prime ministers of scaremongering.
Blair & Major in N Ire to scaremonger on World War 3 (Irish version). As Special Adviser on peace process (96-97) I find this irresponsible
11.17am BST
11:17
Sir John Major and Tony Blair will be starting their event in Northern Ireland shortly. We will have a live feed at the top of this blog.
Sammy Wilson, a DUP MP, has said they are both discredited in Northern Ireland.
Blair and Major lost all trust in NI when their secret talks and deals were exposed. Desperation on Remain's part. pic.twitter.com/7kDOv7skYi
Updated
at 11.21am BST
11.00am BST
11:00
Bill Clinton says leaving the EU could put peace in Northern Ireland at risk
Earlier Claire mentioned the fact that Bill Clinton, the former US president, has urged Britain to stay in the EU. His short New Statesman article where he makes this declaration is now available here, on the magazine’s website.
Here’s an excerpt.
In a tumultuous world, marked by slow growth, excessive inequality, massive refugee flows, and sectarian violence, it’s tempting to believe we can reduce our exposure and increase our personal and economic security by turning inward and keeping the world’s problems out. We’d all like to have the benefits of global interdependence without the burdens. However, because there are disruptive forces we cannot escape, co-operation and collective action are much more likely than withdrawal and isolation to produce prosperity and security. For a nation as large, diverse, and successful as the UK, there is no escape from the growing pains and contradictions of the 21st century world.
It is also important not to minimise the benefits of EU membership to the UK. For example, I was honoured to support the peace process in Northern Ireland. It has benefited from the UK’s membership in the European Union, and I worry that the future prosperity and peace of Northern Ireland could be jeopardised if Britain withdraws.
10.41am BST
10:41
More than 19,000 jobs are supported by EU university research funding which pumps £1.8bn into the UK economy, a study by Universities UK says. The Press Association has more details.
The study by Universities UK said British educational institutions attracted £838m in grants from EU sources in 2014-15.
The report found that UK universities do disproportionately well in gaining EU money.
The analysis showed that in the university sector, EU grants supported 8,864 direct jobs and £836m in economic output, and contributed nearly £577m to GDP.
EU research funding to UK universities generated more than 10,190 full-time equivalent jobs in industries outside the education sector, £1.02bn of economic output and a contribution of nearly £503m to GDP, the report said.
Industries benefiting most from the grants were business activities, with more than 2,604 full-time equivalent jobs; the wholesale and retail trade, with more than 2,048 full-time equivalent jobs; and manufacturing, with over 1,259 full-time equivalent jobs.
10.35am BST
10:35
Jessica Elgot
At the Labour event Sadiq Khan, the London mayor, spoke about his fares announcement yesterday that led to claims he had broken his promise to freeze fares. Khan insisted this was not true.
I was quite clear my promise to London is to freeze fares over the next four years. 96% of passenger journeys in London will have their fares frozen, and it will mean 11m passengers benefiting from what I set out yesterday.
Asked about the “not a penny more for their travel” line in the manifesto, Khan went on:
I think to be fair if you read the line before, I was quite clear it is TfL fares. Promise made, promise delivered. I have frozen TfL fares. Now I need to do one of two things: persuade the government to give me the power to run TfL trains. If I ran those trains I’d freeze those fares as well. Or the government should say to the private operating companies, do what the mayor’s doing and freeze those fares as well.
I can do a better job than [the train companies] are doing ... If I can make TfL waste efficient and cut fares in four weeks, why can’t they make the TOCs [train operating companies] do the same?
10.16am BST
10:16
Banks threatens to challenge voter registrations extension in court - but expert says his case 'hopeless'
Arron Banks, the co-founder of Leave.EU, put out a statement this morning saying he was thinking of taking legal action to try to stop the government extending the deadline for voter registration. He suggested this could involve challenging the result of the referendum after 23 June. He said:
For the government to alter election law during an election period is absolutely unprecedented and unconstitutional. This isn’t some democratic initiative, it’s a desperate attempt by the establishment to register as many likely Remain voters as possible before polling day. Terrific efforts have been made to target young people, thought to be more sympathetic to the EU, while older voters who backed Remain in 1975 but have grown heartily sick of the bloc after forty years of broken promises were given a body swerve.
This follows hot on the heels of the Electoral Commission issuing thousands of ballots to EU nationals with no right to vote in the referendum, turning a blind eye the councils issuing postal voting guidance suggesting that voters put their cross in the box for Remain and doing nothing about Cameron spending over £9m on propaganda leaflets, in blatant violation of its own guidelines and of the Council of Europe’s code of good practice on referendums, too. There are now serious questions hanging over this organisation, which had already lost much public confidence following allegations of corruption during elections in Oldham and Tower Hamlets.
Taken together, we believe that the above constitutes a clear attempt to rig the referendum or, at a bare minimum, to load the dice. We believe It is unconstitutional at best and have been advised that with legitimate cause we could challenge this extension. We are therefore considering all available legal options with our legal team, with a view to potentially launching a judicial review now and after the outcome of the referendum on 23rd June.
Readers with good memories will remember that Banks also threatened to go to court to challenge the Electoral Commission’s decision to make Vote Leave the lead out campaign, not Grassroots Out, which includes Leave.EU. That came to nothing after Banks had second thoughts and dropped the idea.
Carl Garnder, the legal blogger and former government lawyer, has tweeted at length about this. He says Banks’s legal case is “hopeless”.
To be fair Aaron Banks has now explained why he says extending the deadline is unlawful. The trouble is, it's a very weak legal argument.
All Banks says it's that it's "unprecedented" and "unconstitutional". He's relying on a misunderstanding of the legal concept of precedent.
Precedent does not mean (as many non lawyers think) that something's lawful if it's been done before, and unlawful if hasn't.
The doctrine of precedent is purely about the extent to which a legal ruling in a court case in the past governs what a court must do today.
So the fact that extending the deadline mid-campaign may be "unprecedented" is legally irrelevant. This is not a legal argument at all.
Arron legal nonsense, I'm tempted to say.
As for the claim that it's "unconstitutional", well, we have no higher constitutional law. This is not a legal argument either.
Banks may (helping him out here) be trying to say the referendum legislation can't be interpreted as permitting mid-campaign changes. But ..
.. the problem is, nothing in the wording of the legislation implies a "no mid-campaign changes" rule. Banks must ask judges to read it in.
So if Banks tries this challenge (I doubt it) he'll be trying to persuade "unelected judges" to limit what Parliament did in 2015.
A slightly ironic position for someone who (I imagine) thinks he's fighting for Parliament's sovereignty against "unelected judges".
Hard to imagine judges reading the legislation as if Parliament thought "Ministers must have wide power to adapt electoral law to #EUref ..
.. but that power does not extend to solving a problem that arises mid-campaign that could stop people voting". I think it's hopeless.
9.49am BST
09:49
Khan says only Labour can win referendum for Remain
Sadiq Khan, the new Labour mayor of London, has been speaking at a Labour event in the Shard this morning, with Alan Johnson, chair of Labour In for Britain, Harriet Harman, the former deputy leader, and Yvette Cooper, the former shadow home secretary.
Khan said it was up to Labour to win the EU referendum for Remain.
Every day we see another example of why David Cameron and the Tories simply cannot win this referendum as they lose credibility with the public. They are simply too riven by division. It now falls to us, and it’s time for us to step up.
Jeremy, Harriet, Alan, Yvette, the whole shadow cabinet, and every Labour MP, Councillor, member and supporter in Britain - the responsibility is ours. We don’t want to look back in two weeks’ time and think - did we do enough?
And Johnson said the Tories were making the contest look like “a bunfight in the Eton tea room”.
With David Cameron and Boris Johnson trading blows in this campaign it sometimes resembles a bunfight in the Eton tea room. This debate is not about who is to lead the Conservative Party, it’s about the kind of country we want Britain to be: engaged with our continent or isolated on the periphery; erecting barriers or building bridges; a great trading nation or a small minded country where exploitation flourishes.
As the largest political party in the country we’re asking our members to do even more in the final two weeks of the campaign in persuading Labour voters to protect jobs, our economy and workers’ rights by staying in the EU, the largest commercial market in the world.
The truth is Labour are the only major political party who are united on this issue, so we need everyone - MPs, councillors, members and supporters - to redouble their efforts to defeat Nigel Farage, Michael Gove, Iain Duncan Smith and their friends by convincing a million more people to vote Remain.
This is from my colleague Jessica Elgot.
.@sadiqkhan now, says great to be in heart of 'Labour London'. David Cameron & Tories can't win referendum, he says pic.twitter.com/WPf6eaIAue
9.36am BST
09:36
Here is some Twitter comment on Sarah Wollaston’s “defection”.
From YouGov’s Joe Twyman
Wollaston important if for no other reason than it breaks Press Release/Event-Attack-Defend-Repeat rhythm. Boosts chance of public noticing.
From the BBC’s Kamal Ahmed
Don't think @sarahwollaston will be the last to change sides in #EUref Postal votes arriving have "focused minds" - it's decision time
From Deborah Mattinson, the Britain Thinks pollster
Sarah Wollaston sounding v plausible on @BBCr4today - calm, thoughtful, measured. And makes good case for politician mind-changing #EUref
From the Ukip MEP Patrick O’Flynn
Must say I think BBC over-egging Sarah Wollaston story. Just one person having an Andy-and-Lou moment:"I want that one...I don't like it."
From the Ukip MEP Roger Helmer
Let's get this right. Sarah Wollaston is leaving the Leave side because of "exaggerated claims". But she has no problem with Remain?
From the New Statesman’s George Eaton
Sarah Wollaston is great front woman for Remain: NHS champion, moderate, telegenic *and*changed mind.
From Heidi Alexander, the shadow heath secretary
Good on @sarahwollaston. She is right to call out the nonsense of the Leave Campaign's arguments on the NHS. https://t.co/EGyFDSX9Kf
From Jeremy Hunt, the health secretary
Brave decision by @sarahwollaston shows her commitment to NHS and concerns about impact of Brexit recession on public services
From Conservative MP Michael Fabricant
Sarah Wollaston is WRONG when she said we have a net financial gain on medical research.We pay far more to the #EU pic.twitter.com/O9xJKwzCCk
9.23am BST
09:23
Just for reference, here is a post showing what the cross-party Commons Treasury committee and the Institute for Fiscal Studies are saying about the Vote Leave £350m figure that Sarah Wollaston has denounced as a lie. The Treasury committee says it is “highly misleading” and the IFS says it includes assumptions that are “clearly absurd”.
