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Owen Smith suggests Islamic State needs to 'get round the table' – as it happened Owen Smith suggests Islamic State needs to 'get round the table' – as it happened
(35 minutes later)
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We’re winding down the blog now but here’s a summary of this morning’s events:We’re winding down the blog now but here’s a summary of this morning’s events:
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You can read a Guardian panel’s verdict on this morning’s hustings here.You can read a Guardian panel’s verdict on this morning’s hustings here.
David Wearing writes:David Wearing writes:
The mere 35 minutes devoted to policy rendered what discussion there was largely superficial. There was one fascinating moment when Smith appeared to advocate talking to Isis, which Corbyn sensibly had ruled out, but the significance of this was missed, and the debate moved on. By the end BBC viewers could have been forgiven for wondering why the press and leading Labour figures have spent so much of the past week talking about Trotskyism.The mere 35 minutes devoted to policy rendered what discussion there was largely superficial. There was one fascinating moment when Smith appeared to advocate talking to Isis, which Corbyn sensibly had ruled out, but the significance of this was missed, and the debate moved on. By the end BBC viewers could have been forgiven for wondering why the press and leading Labour figures have spent so much of the past week talking about Trotskyism.
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More clarification from Owen Smith’s team on those Islamic State remarks (via Jessica Elgot).More clarification from Owen Smith’s team on those Islamic State remarks (via Jessica Elgot).
Owen is clear that there should be absolutely no negotiation with Daesh, or any terrorist group, until they renounce violence, cease all acts of terror and commit themselves to a peaceful settlement.Owen is clear that there should be absolutely no negotiation with Daesh, or any terrorist group, until they renounce violence, cease all acts of terror and commit themselves to a peaceful settlement.
Owen’s experience of helping to bring about peace in Northern Ireland is that eventually all parties who truly believe in delivering peace have to be around the table. In the Middle East at the moment that clearly doesn’t include - and may never include - Daesh.Owen’s experience of helping to bring about peace in Northern Ireland is that eventually all parties who truly believe in delivering peace have to be around the table. In the Middle East at the moment that clearly doesn’t include - and may never include - Daesh.
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As Labour in-fighting continues, the latest Ipsos Mori poll has the Tories with their biggest lead over Labour since 2009, 45% to 34%, with the Lib Dems on 7% and Ukip on 6%. As Labour infighting continues, the latest Ipsos Mori poll has the Tories with their biggest lead over Labour since 2009, 45% to 34%, with the Lib Dems on 7% and Ukip on 6%.
Theresa May has a net satisfaction rating of +35 after her first month as prime minister with 54% satisfied with her performance.Theresa May has a net satisfaction rating of +35 after her first month as prime minister with 54% satisfied with her performance.
May moves to net 68% @IpsosMORI ratings over Corbyn pic.twitter.com/7HE8yLKPTDMay moves to net 68% @IpsosMORI ratings over Corbyn pic.twitter.com/7HE8yLKPTD
Only one in four are satisfied with Corbyn, who has a net satisfaction score of -33.Only one in four are satisfied with Corbyn, who has a net satisfaction score of -33.
Although better than last month when the Labour leader had a net score of -41, he is still well behind Ed Miliband’s rating after his first year as leader in September 2011 (31% were satisfied and 47% dissatisfied).Although better than last month when the Labour leader had a net score of -41, he is still well behind Ed Miliband’s rating after his first year as leader in September 2011 (31% were satisfied and 47% dissatisfied).
Corbyn’s ratings amongst his own party are lower than they are for May with 39% satisfied and 47% dissatisfied. Among Labour supporters, 45% are satisfied with May and 29% dissatisfied. Corbyn’s ratings among his own party are lower than they are for May, with 39% satisfied and 47% dissatisfied. Among Labour supporters, 45% are satisfied with May and 29% dissatisfied.
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Corbyn: 'Smith hasty and ill-considered on Isis'Corbyn: 'Smith hasty and ill-considered on Isis'
Corbyn’s team have seized on Smith’s comments on Islamic State during this morning’s debate, describing them as “hasty and ill-considered”.Corbyn’s team have seized on Smith’s comments on Islamic State during this morning’s debate, describing them as “hasty and ill-considered”.
Jeremy Corbyn's team go on the attack and suggest Owen Smith is being soft on terrorism. pic.twitter.com/2ASbN0dRqNJeremy Corbyn's team go on the attack and suggest Owen Smith is being soft on terrorism. pic.twitter.com/2ASbN0dRqN
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Smith says Isis must renounce violence to begin negotiationsSmith says Isis must renounce violence to begin negotiations
Owen Smith has rowed back on his comments about negotiating with Islamic State.Owen Smith has rowed back on his comments about negotiating with Islamic State.
In a Facebook Q&A, a member of the public asked:In a Facebook Q&A, a member of the public asked:
Will you take your comments about having IS around the table regarding peace talks back? Death cults who exist to destroy the West and kill civilians are not interested in peace talks.Will you take your comments about having IS around the table regarding peace talks back? Death cults who exist to destroy the West and kill civilians are not interested in peace talks.
Smith answered:Smith answered:
I agree with you that they’re not interested in peace talks - and that means there can’t be any. There can be absolutely no negotiation with any terrorist group until they renounce violence, cease all acts of terror and commit themselves to a peaceful settlement. My experience of working on the peace process in Northern Ireland, though, is that eventually all parties who truly believe in delivering peace have to be around the table. In the Middle East at the moment that clearly doesn’t include - and may never include - Isis.I agree with you that they’re not interested in peace talks - and that means there can’t be any. There can be absolutely no negotiation with any terrorist group until they renounce violence, cease all acts of terror and commit themselves to a peaceful settlement. My experience of working on the peace process in Northern Ireland, though, is that eventually all parties who truly believe in delivering peace have to be around the table. In the Middle East at the moment that clearly doesn’t include - and may never include - Isis.
It was inevitable that he would clarify his comments but not sure that this will dispel the concerns they raised about his judgement. It was inevitable that he would clarify his comments but not sure that this will dispel the concerns they raised about his judgment.
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A Q&A with Owen Smith on Facebook is starting now.A Q&A with Owen Smith on Facebook is starting now.
The second question posted, predictably, isThe second question posted, predictably, is
Owen - could you clarify your statements on Islamic State? A few Smith supporters, me included, are worried about exactly what you meant.Owen - could you clarify your statements on Islamic State? A few Smith supporters, me included, are worried about exactly what you meant.
A number of others have posted questions along similar lines, including these:A number of others have posted questions along similar lines, including these:
In terms of negotiations with ISIS, if you were Prime Minister would you visit Raqqa to negotiate or invite ISIS leaders to Downing Street to discuss peace talks there?In terms of negotiations with ISIS, if you were Prime Minister would you visit Raqqa to negotiate or invite ISIS leaders to Downing Street to discuss peace talks there?
How can you possibly claim to be more electorally popular than Jeremy when you want to sit down at the negotiating table with Jihadi John and ISIS fanatics?How can you possibly claim to be more electorally popular than Jeremy when you want to sit down at the negotiating table with Jihadi John and ISIS fanatics?
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Labour leadership debate – key flash pointsLabour leadership debate – key flash points
SyriaSyria
One major bone of contention between the two was international diplomacy around the crisis in Syria. Corbyn said negotiations should involve the Assad government and others in “proximity talks”. He said Islamic State “shouldn’t be round the table, no”.One major bone of contention between the two was international diplomacy around the crisis in Syria. Corbyn said negotiations should involve the Assad government and others in “proximity talks”. He said Islamic State “shouldn’t be round the table, no”.
Smith went much further. He said: “At some point, for us to resolve this, we will need to get people round the table.”Smith went much further. He said: “At some point, for us to resolve this, we will need to get people round the table.”
EuropeEurope
Corbyn said he would fight against any consequences Brexit would have for workers’ rights, environmental protection and access to the market for British industry, but stopped short of saying Labour should work to prevent Brexit.Corbyn said he would fight against any consequences Brexit would have for workers’ rights, environmental protection and access to the market for British industry, but stopped short of saying Labour should work to prevent Brexit.
Smith says Brexit is “a desperate mistake for our country” and said he would keep making the argument for EU membership.Smith says Brexit is “a desperate mistake for our country” and said he would keep making the argument for EU membership.
Student feesStudent fees
This was a key policy difference that emerged between the two. Smith said he was against fees but favoured a graduate tax as a way of funding universities.This was a key policy difference that emerged between the two. Smith said he was against fees but favoured a graduate tax as a way of funding universities.
Corbyn said he was opposed to both, and said he would scrap fees and increase public funding of universities via higher corporation taxation.Corbyn said he was opposed to both, and said he would scrap fees and increase public funding of universities via higher corporation taxation.
EconomyEconomy
Corbyn’s spending plans were vaguer than Smith’s but the debate saw the former work and pensions secretary acknowledge borrowing would increase and the deficit rise for his proposed £200bn infrastructure investment, using long-term loans. He also said tax changes would lead to increased revenue of £13bn.Corbyn’s spending plans were vaguer than Smith’s but the debate saw the former work and pensions secretary acknowledge borrowing would increase and the deficit rise for his proposed £200bn infrastructure investment, using long-term loans. He also said tax changes would lead to increased revenue of £13bn.
Asked about his spending and borrowing plans, Corbyn cites his policies of the national investment bank and transport policies which he said would help grow the economy, as well as tax rises. But he was unable to say what extent of economic growth would be required to fully fund his proposals.Asked about his spending and borrowing plans, Corbyn cites his policies of the national investment bank and transport policies which he said would help grow the economy, as well as tax rises. But he was unable to say what extent of economic growth would be required to fully fund his proposals.
Handing over now to my colleague Haroon Siddique who will take you through the political reaction into the afternoon.Handing over now to my colleague Haroon Siddique who will take you through the political reaction into the afternoon.
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It’s been a lively debate but I think this – as close as Corbyn gets to an angry voice – is one of the best bits.It’s been a lively debate but I think this – as close as Corbyn gets to an angry voice – is one of the best bits.
Jeremy Corbyn telling Owen Smith to be quiet is my new jam #VictoriaLIVE https://t.co/GCLCo4PnRwJeremy Corbyn telling Owen Smith to be quiet is my new jam #VictoriaLIVE https://t.co/GCLCo4PnRw
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The debate is over now and large swaths of the undecided section of the audience have moved over to support Jeremy Corbyn.The debate is over now and large swaths of the undecided section of the audience have moved over to support Jeremy Corbyn.
One said it was Corbyn’s commitment to community activism that persuaded him and another by his arguments on child mental health which he stated at the end of the programme.One said it was Corbyn’s commitment to community activism that persuaded him and another by his arguments on child mental health which he stated at the end of the programme.
Another, remaining in the middle, says she is still genuinely unconvinced, and has decided she will abstain.Another, remaining in the middle, says she is still genuinely unconvinced, and has decided she will abstain.
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Smith’s comments on Islamic State are creating a bit of a stir on social media. Here’s what he said in full:Smith’s comments on Islamic State are creating a bit of a stir on social media. Here’s what he said in full:
My view is that ultimately all solutions to these crises do come about through dialogue.My view is that ultimately all solutions to these crises do come about through dialogue.
So eventually if we are to try and solve this, all of the actors do need to be involved. At the moment, Isil are clearly not interested in negotiating.So eventually if we are to try and solve this, all of the actors do need to be involved. At the moment, Isil are clearly not interested in negotiating.
At some point, for us to resolve this, we will need to get people round the table.At some point, for us to resolve this, we will need to get people round the table.
Owen Smith is channelling Jonathan Powell on the inevitability of negotiations. But every now and again someone is unroundthetableable.Owen Smith is channelling Jonathan Powell on the inevitability of negotiations. But every now and again someone is unroundthetableable.
Appalling answer from Owen Smith too. Praises dialogue, then says "all the actors have to be involved". Actually wants Isis round the table.Appalling answer from Owen Smith too. Praises dialogue, then says "all the actors have to be involved". Actually wants Isis round the table.
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