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Behind Traingate: retracing Corbyn's trip to see reality of UK rail travel – live Behind Traingate: retracing Corbyn's trip to see reality of UK rail travel – live
(35 minutes later)
12.19pm BST
12:19
Martin Belam
I’ve just had a quick look at your below the line comments on my phone – over 700 already. I can’t really reply to them all on my phone but in general from what I’ve seen, I agree, it’s obviously not a way to find out the truth of what happened on the exact journey that Corbyn made but:
Seems like the ideal place to do this reporting is a train.
One those hundreds of comments came from Mickinthehouse, who has shared what it was like commuting between Leeds and Huddersfield.
I live in Leeds. Some years ago I worked in Huddersfield 20 odd miles away. I didn’t need a car at work so wanted to use the train. I used a local station that was the last stop on the line from York to Leeds. I then needed to change trains at Leeds. Frequently the train into Leeds was so full that I was unable to get on because the areas around the doors were full of passengers standing. It used to infuriate me that people would not move down the train so I and others could get on but the basis of the problem was no seats. Too frequently this caused me problems in terms of arriving at work on time and I reverted to driving. Train travel seems to me to be very expensive yet often overcrowded, uncomfortable and inefficient. France is a far bigger country with a similar population. My experience of using trains in France, a much bigger country, suggests they can run a far more effective better quality and cheaper service. Why is this?
12.12pm BST
12:12
Martin Belam
I just spoke to David who described himself as a Labour voter. He has some strong views on the train incident – describing it as “opportunist”. He says with all the money going into the Labour party it shows incompetence that the leader’s team couldn’t book two seats together in advance. He says before privatisation trains were overcrowded, dirty and unreliable and he wouldn’t want to go back to that.
12.05pm BST
12:05
The Guardian’s Peter Walker has tweeted his take on Traingate.
Before I try to forget about the whole sorry farrago forever, here's what I believe is most plausible set of facts on #traingate (1)
Firstly: it seems there were some free, unreserved seats which JC could have sat on. He & his team said there were no double seats left (2)
... and he wanted to sit with wife. My guess is they went down carriages seeking double seats, and spare seats filled up soon after (3)
JC was not only person who found it hard to find seats. There's strong evidence of others sitting in corridors. Virgin do not dispute it (4)
But it also seems this shortage was in part due to a/ initial chaos and b/ people not wanting to take reserved seats not yet sat in (5)
It seems most people were sat down after about 45 mins or so, after train staff did some shuffling round. Includes Corbyn & his team (6)
Updated
at 12.05pm BST
11.57am BST
11:57
Martin Belam
I’ve been talking to people in coach C. Susan is heading to Newcastle to visit her sister. She says she has been using this train for 25 years and has never once failed to get a seat. I ask her about nationalising the railways – she says it’s more important that the owner are British. She thinks Corbyn was doing a publicity stunt and she doesn’t have much time for him. She says the only time people are standing in the corridors is to stay by their luggage, not because of a lack of seats.
Also in coach C is Linda, who is taking her two sons, Robert and Jamie, to Newcastle. She says she always books 12 weeks in advance to get the best price. Susan, who is sitting at the same table, points out that not everybody has access to computers. There’s a long debate about how unnecessarily complicated ticketing is. It’s frustrating that different train companies have different rules, says Linda. But she adds: “I wouldn’t want to go back to British Rail.”
Mentish is on the train travelling for business. I plonked myself down next to him and interrupted him analysing a folder of documents. He says he doesn’t travel that regularly by train but would be in favour of stronger regulation. He wouldn’t support out-and-out nationalisation but would like to see more central control and “accountability” so that train companies are “held responsible for the promises they make”.
11.55am BST
11:55
Martin Belam
I’ve just had my ticket inspected. Without mentioning that I’m a journalist I try to get a conversation started: “Plenty of spare seats today...,” I say. “Aye, even enough for Mr Corbyn,” comes the reply.
And, just as a reminder, this is the footage that started it all:
11.53am BST
11:53
Owen Smith: CCTV shows Corbyn chose to sit on train floor
Damien Gayle
The Labour leadership challenger, Owen Smith, has said it is obvious from the evidence shown in CCTV footage that Jeremy Corbyn chose to give up a seat and sit on the floor to make a point about overcrowded trains in a video.
But the MP also said his rival had made an important and legitimate point, and he echoed the Labour leader’s call for the renationalisation of Britain’s railways.
Asked on the Today programme on BBC Radio 4 about whether he believed the story given by Virgin Trains and its tycoon boss, Sir Richard Branson, Smith said: “Well I’m not quite sure what the Corbyn version of events is because I think it changed a couple of times yesterday, but what is clear from the footage that I have seen is that he had a seat on the train and there were seats on the train and he chose to sit on the floor for the purposes of the video.
“But I do think he was trying to make a legitimate point and trains are overcrowded and I think we should nationalise them in order to try and make sure that they serve the British people rather better.”
Read the full story here:
11.47am BST
11:47
As traingate rumbles on, here is what some members of the public are thinking:
Dear @richardbranson, I've often stood on @VirginTrains. Didn't realise u were watching. Now I know u care, how about a refund? #traingate
Isn't the key issue with #traingate that Corbyn's team should have RESERVED their seats? If they can't organise that, then.......
Like most PR disasters, #traingate could've been avoided if they'd told the truth from start. Chose not to. Now passive-aggresssive presser.
The most disappointing thing about #traingate is that we thought @jeremycorbyn was different. Un-electable perhaps, but a refreshing change.
11.44am BST11.44am BST
11:4411:44
While the Guardian’s Martin Belam has not found quite a “ram packed” train this morning, one traveller tweeted this recent picture of a crowded train.While the Guardian’s Martin Belam has not found quite a “ram packed” train this morning, one traveller tweeted this recent picture of a crowded train.
Here’s recent Virgin train I was on - 2.5hrs stood up & mum & baby in tears due to crush. Happens often… #traingate pic.twitter.com/Xeq1PtT4NpHere’s recent Virgin train I was on - 2.5hrs stood up & mum & baby in tears due to crush. Happens often… #traingate pic.twitter.com/Xeq1PtT4Np
11.33am BST11.33am BST
11:3311:33
Here is what the Guardian’s Marina Hyde had to say about Corbyn’s somewhat reluctant answer to a Traingate question from Sky News.Here is what the Guardian’s Marina Hyde had to say about Corbyn’s somewhat reluctant answer to a Traingate question from Sky News.
Seconds from Keegan. SECONDS. https://t.co/dukTWdIabnSeconds from Keegan. SECONDS. https://t.co/dukTWdIabn
And if you haven’t seen it, a video of the question and answer is below:And if you haven’t seen it, a video of the question and answer is below:
UpdatedUpdated
at 11.40am BSTat 11.40am BST
11.28am BST11.28am BST
11:2811:28
Martin BelamMartin Belam
This train is not going to meet any definition of “ram-packed”. In coach E, for example, there are 78 seats. Nineteen have got reserved tickets on them, but nobody is sitting in them. There are six empty seats. And there were five seats where someone had spread out their bags or laptops, and conceivably, at a push, I could have not been so British about it all and asked them to budge up.This train is not going to meet any definition of “ram-packed”. In coach E, for example, there are 78 seats. Nineteen have got reserved tickets on them, but nobody is sitting in them. There are six empty seats. And there were five seats where someone had spread out their bags or laptops, and conceivably, at a push, I could have not been so British about it all and asked them to budge up.
11.23am BST11.23am BST
11:2311:23
Martin BelamMartin Belam
Virgin Trains and Jeremy Corbyn’s team have offered somewhat conflicting versions of events – Virgin argued that Corbyn could have sat in seats that were reserved but empty. Corbyn’s team said some of the seats that appear empty in the pictures actually had people in them or bags on them. I’m going to have a walk through standard class now to see how busy it is.Virgin Trains and Jeremy Corbyn’s team have offered somewhat conflicting versions of events – Virgin argued that Corbyn could have sat in seats that were reserved but empty. Corbyn’s team said some of the seats that appear empty in the pictures actually had people in them or bags on them. I’m going to have a walk through standard class now to see how busy it is.
11.20am BST11.20am BST
11:2011:20
Virgin Trains faces data breach questions over Corbyn CCTV releaseVirgin Trains faces data breach questions over Corbyn CCTV release
Richard Branson’s Virgin Trains may have breached data protection rules by releasing CCTV footage of Jeremy Corbyn, reports say.Richard Branson’s Virgin Trains may have breached data protection rules by releasing CCTV footage of Jeremy Corbyn, reports say.
The information commissioner is looking into the incident, with a spokeswoman telling the Independent: “We are aware of the publication of CCTV images of Jeremy Corbyn and are making inquiries.The information commissioner is looking into the incident, with a spokeswoman telling the Independent: “We are aware of the publication of CCTV images of Jeremy Corbyn and are making inquiries.
“All organisations have an obligation to comply with the Data Protection Act and must have legitimate grounds for processing the personal data they hold.“All organisations have an obligation to comply with the Data Protection Act and must have legitimate grounds for processing the personal data they hold.
“Where there is a suggestion this this hasn’t happened, the IOC has the power to investigate and can take enforcement action if necessary.”“Where there is a suggestion this this hasn’t happened, the IOC has the power to investigate and can take enforcement action if necessary.”
UpdatedUpdated
at 11.21am BSTat 11.21am BST
11.09am BST11.09am BST
11:0911:09
Martin BelamMartin Belam
So I got the train without a hitch. It doesn’t seem to be hugely busy. In fact, I’m slightly worried that it will be mostly full of journalists.So I got the train without a hitch. It doesn’t seem to be hugely busy. In fact, I’m slightly worried that it will be mostly full of journalists.
I’m standing outside the toilet in coach H watching someone from the BBC dictate a piece into their phone – or possibly they were broadcasting live. So you can at least say there’s one positive #Traingate outcome already – the media are suddenly much more interested in the standard of service on the east coast mainline.I’m standing outside the toilet in coach H watching someone from the BBC dictate a piece into their phone – or possibly they were broadcasting live. So you can at least say there’s one positive #Traingate outcome already – the media are suddenly much more interested in the standard of service on the east coast mainline.
UpdatedUpdated
at 11.13am BSTat 11.13am BST
10.57am BST10.57am BST
10:5710:57
The first part of the mission is getting a ticket. As anyone who travels by rail regularly knows, buying tickets at the last moment is not the most economical way to do it. I’m planning to get off at York and come back to London, which should give me enough time to talk to plenty of people. That’s cost me £104.30.The first part of the mission is getting a ticket. As anyone who travels by rail regularly knows, buying tickets at the last moment is not the most economical way to do it. I’m planning to get off at York and come back to London, which should give me enough time to talk to plenty of people. That’s cost me £104.30.
UpdatedUpdated
at 10.59am BSTat 10.59am BST
10.47am BST10.47am BST
10:4710:47
Martin BelamMartin Belam
#Traingate has been the perfect politics silly season row. If you are a Jeremy Corbyn supporter, it is easy to portray it as yet another example of the vested interests of the establishment and big business working together to undermine him, for fear that his rail nationalisation policy will cost train fatcats their profits.#Traingate has been the perfect politics silly season row. If you are a Jeremy Corbyn supporter, it is easy to portray it as yet another example of the vested interests of the establishment and big business working together to undermine him, for fear that his rail nationalisation policy will cost train fatcats their profits.
And if you are not a Corbyn fan, it is easy to portray it as yet another example of Corbyn’s failure as a leader – that he can’t even find a crowded train to make a point about crowded trains without becoming the story himself.And if you are not a Corbyn fan, it is easy to portray it as yet another example of Corbyn’s failure as a leader – that he can’t even find a crowded train to make a point about crowded trains without becoming the story himself.
Forgotten in all this is the story about whether Britain’s train passengers are getting a fair deal. So I’m heading off on the 11am Virgin train to Newcastle this morning from Kings Cross. How crowded is it? Will I get a seat? And what do the people on the train think about Virgin services, Corbyn’s policy to renationalise, and #Traingate?Forgotten in all this is the story about whether Britain’s train passengers are getting a fair deal. So I’m heading off on the 11am Virgin train to Newcastle this morning from Kings Cross. How crowded is it? Will I get a seat? And what do the people on the train think about Virgin services, Corbyn’s policy to renationalise, and #Traingate?
If you’re on this train, use this journey regularly, or feel strongly about this topic, share your thoughts by clicking on the blue contribute button on this article, via WhatsApp by adding the contact +44(0)7867825056, or email guardian.witness@theguardian.com.If you’re on this train, use this journey regularly, or feel strongly about this topic, share your thoughts by clicking on the blue contribute button on this article, via WhatsApp by adding the contact +44(0)7867825056, or email guardian.witness@theguardian.com.
UpdatedUpdated
at 10.52am BSTat 10.52am BST