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AFP won't hand over seized AWU documents until after December – politics live AFP won't hand over seized AWU documents until after December – politics live
(35 minutes later)
1.27am BST
01:27
Here are the letters which George Brandis have just tabled pic.twitter.com/IlqFsh0dWl
1.25am BST
01:25
The committee is back and Labor are still fighting to be able to ask questions about the leaks.
This is what Brandis is relying on to say he (and the ROC) can't answer any questions on the raid. pic.twitter.com/POciqMeADe
1.22am BST
01:22
Updated
at 1.27am BST
1.19am BST
01:19
Calla Wahlquist
In another estimates committee, Nigel Scullion, the Indigenous affairs minister, who was eviscerated by Patricia Karvelas on RN Drive last night for the government’s decision to categorically rule out a referendum on enshrining an Indigenous voice to parliament in the constitution, has been squaring up against senators Pat Dodson, Malarndirri McCarthy, and Rachel Siewert.
Scullion has suggested that the Referendum Council, which was commissioned by Malcolm Turnbull and Bill Shorten to consult on the idea of Indigenous constitutional recognition, failed by not speaking to non-Indigenous people.
He said:
The task for the referendum council was to talk to Australia, to consult with Australia, and I think the Referendum Council’s view was that was speaking to Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander people. Speaking to 3% of the population when you are actually trying to deal with a national issue was part of the fail.
There was very little work down with the mainstream, non-Indigenous part of the community. I’m not arguing whether it should or shouldn’t have been.”
This is the first time I have heard anyone suggest that the Referendum Council was supposed to talk to non-Indigenous people, as well as Aborigiinal and Torres Strait Islander peoples. In fact it was celebrated as the first active consultation with Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander peoples commissioned in more than 10 years of discussion of Indigenous recognition.
The first term of reference for the Referendum Council states:
“The Council will lead the process for national consultations and community engagement about constitutional recognition, including a concurrent series of Indigenous designed and led consultations.”
The grilling continues.
Updated
at 1.26am BST
1.11am BST
01:11
The Australian federal police advised by email they would be carrying out an investigation into the leak of the raids at 7.05pm last night. The email was sent to Michaelia Cash’s office. It was shown to George Brandis “earlier this morning”
Brandis says he was “made aware of this hearing sometime yesterday and I was told that Senator Cash had a long standing commitment in Perth ... I think about lunchtime ... and because I was in Canberra today for an unrelated reason, I volunteered [to attend in her place].
Labor is attempting to ascertain when Brandis learnt about the AFP investigation, given he has just sprung the public interest immunity move on them.
The committee is suspended again to discuss how to move forward, now that Brandis has outlined what he will be claiming public interest immunity on.
We are working on getting a copy of the letter which was tabled, but remember, it is redacted.
Updated
at 1.25am BST
1.06am BST
01:06
The committee is now going on break to read George Brandis’s letter where he outlines what matters he believes applies to public interest immunity.
1.06am BST
01:06
Doug Cameron is asking George Brandis when he made the decision to invoke public interest immunity of the ROC matter. He says this morning.
1.04am BST
01:04
Just quickly, Samantha Maiden from Sky has reported she understands the government is preparing to make changes to the citizenship laws, for future MPs, to stop foreign countries from conferring citizenship upon Australians without their consent.
Interesting to see how that would work.
.@samanthamaiden: The government is preparing changes to the Citizenship Act in the wake of the High Court case. https://t.co/OCHHCPsLUp pic.twitter.com/Or9dC9RpSb
Updated
at 1.13am BST
1.03am BST
01:03
The committee is about to come back from break – anyone wanting to follow along should be able to find the link – here
12.55am BST
00:55
The employment committee has gone on its morning tea break.
It’s around this time the letter George Brandis has flagged, outlining what he plans to invoke public interest immunity on, will be tabled.
12.54am BST12.54am BST
00:5400:54
If necessary, the soonest a byelection in New England could be held is December 2. If necessary, the soonest a byelection in New England could be held is 2 December. That’s not in time for the next session of parliament which is scheduled for 27 November. That plays havoc with the government’s one-seat majority, but Indi MP Cathy McGowan has said she will support the government in confidence motions. The Speaker also has a vote in cases where the vote is tied.
From speaking to those in the government I get the feeling that now they are just waiting to see what switch they need to flick. They seem as keen to get this decision over and done with as you do.From speaking to those in the government I get the feeling that now they are just waiting to see what switch they need to flick. They seem as keen to get this decision over and done with as you do.
As for what happens with the senators, those next in line seem ready to pick up the mantle, including Hollie Hughes (next in line for Nash) and Joanna Lindgren (next in line for Canavan) As for what happens with the senators, those next in line seem ready to pick up the mantle, including Hollie Hughes (next in line for Nash) and Joanna Lindgren (next in line for Canavan).
Updated
at 1.23am BST
12.45am BST12.45am BST
00:4500:45
Time is ticking closer to the high court decision.Time is ticking closer to the high court decision.
For those needing a refresher, Paul Karp and Katharine Murphy have put together a nice story here , which includes the context of the week that was:For those needing a refresher, Paul Karp and Katharine Murphy have put together a nice story here , which includes the context of the week that was:
The controversy over Cash came as nervousness within the Coalition increased ahead of the high court ruling.The controversy over Cash came as nervousness within the Coalition increased ahead of the high court ruling.
The “citizenship seven” are: Joyce, deputy Nationals leader Fiona Nash, former resources and Northern Australia minister Matt Canavan, One Nation senator Malcolm Roberts, senator Nick Xenophon and former Greens senators Larissa Waters and Scott Ludlam. The “citizenship seven” are: deputy prime minister Barnaby Joyce; deputy Nationals leader Fiona Nash; former resources and Northern Australia minister Matt Canavan; One Nation senator Malcolm Roberts; senator Nick Xenophon and former Greens senators Larissa Waters and Scott Ludlam.
Joyce will face a byelection in New England if found ineligible, while senators will be replaced by a recount likely to return the next candidate on their parties’ 2016 Senate ticket.Joyce will face a byelection in New England if found ineligible, while senators will be replaced by a recount likely to return the next candidate on their parties’ 2016 Senate ticket.
If Joyce is found ineligible, the Turnbull government will have 75 lower house seats, making it more likely to lose house votes unless the Coalition retains Joyce’s seat against a likely run by former independent MP Tony Windsor.If Joyce is found ineligible, the Turnbull government will have 75 lower house seats, making it more likely to lose house votes unless the Coalition retains Joyce’s seat against a likely run by former independent MP Tony Windsor.
Updated
at 1.22am BST
12.41am BST12.41am BST
00:4100:41
AFP won't hand over seized AWU documents until after DecemberAFP won't hand over seized AWU documents until after December
The court timetable means the AFP won’t hand over any of the documents it seized during the raids to the Registered Organisations Commission until after the court has heard the case.The court timetable means the AFP won’t hand over any of the documents it seized during the raids to the Registered Organisations Commission until after the court has heard the case.
The ROC have until 1 December to file their defence. That doesn’t leave a lot of time for the federal court to hear the case, because they usually go on Christmas break. So expect this to go on for a while. The ROC has until 1 December to file their defence. That doesn’t leave a lot of time for the federal court to hear the case, because they usually go on Christmas break. So expect this to go on for a while.
UpdatedUpdated
at 12.45am BST at 1.21am BST
12.37am BST12.37am BST
00:3700:37
The court hearing, which was to set further directions on the AWU’s challenge of the validity of the raids on its office, has been cancelled. It was deemed not necessary as the parties both agreed on a timetable themselves.The court hearing, which was to set further directions on the AWU’s challenge of the validity of the raids on its office, has been cancelled. It was deemed not necessary as the parties both agreed on a timetable themselves.
Maurice Blackburn, which is representing the AWU; just released this statement:Maurice Blackburn, which is representing the AWU; just released this statement:
A court timetable has been set in the AWU’s fight to challenge the validity of this week’s unprecedented police raids launched by the Registered Organisations Commission (ROC) on the union’s Sydney and Melbourne offices.A court timetable has been set in the AWU’s fight to challenge the validity of this week’s unprecedented police raids launched by the Registered Organisations Commission (ROC) on the union’s Sydney and Melbourne offices.
Maurice Blackburn Lawyers, who are representing the AWU, said today that court orders confirming a timetable for the case had been agreed to by all parties, removing the need for a federal court directions hearing that had been scheduled for this morning in Melbourne.Maurice Blackburn Lawyers, who are representing the AWU, said today that court orders confirming a timetable for the case had been agreed to by all parties, removing the need for a federal court directions hearing that had been scheduled for this morning in Melbourne.
Maurice Blackburn Principal Josh Bornstein said critically that the orders were made together with commitments from both the ROC and AFP that no documents seized in this week’s raids by the AFP will be handed over to the ROC until the court has heard the case.Maurice Blackburn Principal Josh Bornstein said critically that the orders were made together with commitments from both the ROC and AFP that no documents seized in this week’s raids by the AFP will be handed over to the ROC until the court has heard the case.
Mr Bornstein said the union’s case compromised two key parts, namely:· That the raid conducted by the AFP was illegal; and· That the investigation by the ROC is illegal because it is politically motivated.Mr Bornstein said the union’s case compromised two key parts, namely:· That the raid conducted by the AFP was illegal; and· That the investigation by the ROC is illegal because it is politically motivated.
“Prior to these raids, the union had handed over disclosure statements from 10 years ago in relation to Get Up donations to the ROC, but in doing so had pressed the regulator to provide it with information about the political interference by the Turnbull government in this matter. Prior to these raids, the union had handed over disclosure statements from 10 years ago in relation to Get Up donations to the ROC, but in doing so had pressed the regulator to provide it with information about the political interference by the Turnbull government in this matter.
“Disturbingly, the ROC has refused to hand over all file notes of its communications with minister Cash and her office and we will continue to seek all such documents as part of the federal court case,” he said. Disturbingly, the ROC has refused to hand over all file notes of its communications with minister Cash and her office and we will continue to seek all such documents as part of the federal court case,” he said.
Under the agreed timetable, evidence must be obtained from all parties next month, with the respondents required to file their defence by 1 December 2017. A substantive hearing will be held in December at a date to be set, following the filing of defences.Under the agreed timetable, evidence must be obtained from all parties next month, with the respondents required to file their defence by 1 December 2017. A substantive hearing will be held in December at a date to be set, following the filing of defences.
UpdatedUpdated
at 12.41am BST at 1.21am BST
12.28am BST12.28am BST
00:2800:28
Doug Cameron is back in the committee and he withdraws his previous statement about George Brandis. The hearing moves on, still on asbestos.Doug Cameron is back in the committee and he withdraws his previous statement about George Brandis. The hearing moves on, still on asbestos.
12.21am BST12.21am BST
00:2100:21
My colleague Calla Wahlquist is listening to the estimates hearing examining Indigenous issues. Follow her on @callapilla to learn more.My colleague Calla Wahlquist is listening to the estimates hearing examining Indigenous issues. Follow her on @callapilla to learn more.
Dodson pushing Scullion on whether the govt might support a voice if it was established by simple legislation, not in the constitution.Dodson pushing Scullion on whether the govt might support a voice if it was established by simple legislation, not in the constitution.
UpdatedUpdated
at 12.39am BSTat 12.39am BST
12.17am BST
00:17
Meanwhile, back in Queensland, where everyone is on high alert, the election will be called within days, and Katter’s Australian party have made their position clear.
If it hold the balance of the power in the state (KAP has two Queensland MPs at this stage), state leader Robbie Katter, son of Bob, says the party will “immediately take the first step toward the establishment of north Queensland as a separate state”.
That first step is forming a committee “of independent experts with knowledge of the legal, economic and social factors to be considered”.
And the border? The KAP says it should be at Rockhampton, with Rocky becoming part of north Queensland.
Updated
at 12.40am BST
12.04am BST
00:04
The meeting returns, although Doug Cameron doesn’t immediately return to the room.
George Brandis starts with a statement:
“Senator Cameron made a very serious and untruthful reflection on me, he said that I had been colluding with the prime minister’s office in relation to this morning’s hearing, not withstanding he asked me whether I discussed this morning’s hearing with the prime minister or his office or whether my staff had done so, to which the answer was a simple and unequivocal no. I require, I ask him to require that that reflection be withdrawn, so when senator Cameron returns, he does the appropriate thing and of course if he refuses to, then there are certain courses of action open to you, which I would ask you to follow.”
Linda Reynolds says she will raise it with Cameron when he returns.
Updated
at 12.42am BST
11.59pm BST
23:59
Doug Cameron asks George Brandis if he is aware why Michaelia Cash can’t be before the committee today.
“I am aware that she has a long-standing prior commitment,” Brandis says.
Cameron: Could you provide details as to what that engagement is to the committee?
Brandis: I’ll take that on notice.
Cameron: I have just got to say we have a minister in senator Cash who has thrown one of her staff under the bus to protect her own, activity, her own position.
He is interrupted by Linda Reynolds who asks if it is a question or a general statement.
The hearing dissolves into yelling, as Reynolds attempts to quiet Cameron, who, I can’t hear entirely but says something about “ collusion with the prime minister’s office, coming in here and actually trying to cover up, this is a ... ”
Reynolds cuts the microphones and the meeting goes private.
Updated
at 12.43am BST
11.53pm BST
23:53
Doug Cameron has the floor in the committee and he is asking George Brandis whether steps have been taken to secure the computer and equipment of the “media director of the Fair Work Ombudsman”.
“I personally haven’t,” Brandis says.
“... I don’t know the answer to that question, senator Cameron, but the matter is the subject of a current investigation.”
Cameron asks if Brandis has attended a briefing from the prime minister’s office on this issue.
Brandis says he has not. And that none of his staff have, with two succinct no’s to each question.
But when it gets to whether any of Michaelia Cash has, he refers to the public interest immunity convention.
“The chair has ruled that this matter will not be dealt with until after the morning tea adjournment,” Brandis says.
That will be after the redacted letter will have been tabled, the one which will lay out all of the issues Brandis says he can’t talk about because of public interest immunity.
Updated
at 12.44am BST
11.43pm BST
23:43
Nick Xenophon is on the committee, asking questions of the asbestos safety and eradication agency. Today is his last chance to ask these questions. Even if the high court rules he is safe, he is resigning to run in the South Australian state election.
Updated
at 11.44pm BST
11.38pm BST
23:38
The committee has returned.
Linda Reynolds says it is important for the committee to know what issues George Brandis will be claiming public interest immunity on. Brandis’s office are preparing that letter as we speak.
But the one which will be tabled publicly, will be redacted.
11.35pm BST
23:35
While we wait on the committee to reconvene, I’ll remind you that Scott Morrison is due to meet with the state and territory treasurers today.
The Australian had a very interesting story ahead of this.
11.29pm BST
23:29
In other news, Malcolm Turnbull was spotted out and about for his usual morning walk by Nine News this morning, leading to this exchange:
Nine: Morning, prime minister – big day today?
Turnbull: It’s always a beautiful day in Canberra.
Nine: Will you still have a deputy PM this afternoon?
Turnbull: We look forward to the high court’s decision.
That’s a slight walkback from Turnbull’s declaration in August that Joyce was “qualified to sit in the house and the high court will so hold”.
Updated
at 11.49pm BST
11.25pm BST
23:25
AFP to investigate AWU raid leak
Michaelia Cash had “longstanding” electorate business in Western Australia and so is not before the estimates hearing looking into the Registered Organisations Commission today.
But George Brandis is.
And he opens by announcing the Australian federal police have opened an investigation into the leak to the media of the raids of the AWU offices.
He says given the investigation, questions over the leak – with a lot of this morning’s hearing, at least according to Labor members of the committee – meant to focus on who was the “media source” who alerted Cash’s staffer the raids were coming – would be inappropriate. As we already know, Cash’s staffer, David De Garis, alerted some media outlets. He has resigned.
The minister denied five times in an estimates hearing on Wednesday that her office had anything to do with the leak. After the publication of a BuzzFeed article by Alice Workman, which confirmed journalists had been told about the raids by Cash’s office, Cash “corrected the record”.
Yesterday Cash faced a further two hours of questioning by the Senate committee, but didn’t reveal much more than she had on Wednesday evening, other than she had asked the ROC to consider referring the matter to the AFP. Today, Brandis said the ROC had decided to do just that, and the AFP had taken on the investigation.
He says that would make it inappropriate for any further questions to be asked about the issue, which would gag Labor from integrating ROC officials over where the leak could have originated from.
Labor has protested that, with Doug Cameron pointing out that the matter is not before the court, and the AFP does not direct the Senate. Brandis suggested public interest immunity may prevent anyone from asking questions, and the chair, Linda Reynolds, is now looking at whether prejudicing an investigation (which is part of public interest immunity) will prevent questions from being asked.
The committee is on break as it discusses the issue.
Updated
at 11.41pm BST
11.12pm BST
23:12
Good morning and welcome to a special edition of politics live
It’s Friday on a sitting week and usually we would be quietly twitching in a corner somewhere while madly working out what happened, what didn’t and what it all means.
But it’s not just any Friday – it’s high court Friday, when the high court will hand down its judgment on the seven MPs – Barnaby Joyce, Matt Canavan, Fiona Nash, Larissa Waters, Scott Ludlam, Nick Xenophon and Malcolm Roberts.
It’s Joyce who has captured most of the government’s attention. He’s the only lower house MP (in this round – David Gillespie is also before the high court on a separate section 44 matter) and if the high court rules him ineligible, we are headed to a byelection in New England.
But before we get to that, there is another estimates hearing involving the AWU raid saga, and the federal court will give further directions on what can happen to the documents seized by the Australian federal police, at the direction of the Registered Organisations Commission, after a referral from Michaelia Cash over the disclosure of donations by the AWU while it was helmed by Bill Shorten.
So let’s get started.
Updated
at 11.29pm BST