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Zuckerberg testimony: Facebook CEO grilled by Congress over data scandal – live Zuckerberg testimony: Facebook CEO tells Congress he is open to regulation – live
(35 minutes later)
Senator Dick Durbin began his questioning by probing at Zuckerberg’s own sense of his personal privacy.
“Would you be comfortable sharing with us the name of the hotel you stayed in last night?” Durbin asked.
“No.”
If you messaged someone last week, will you share that with us now?
No.
Durbin says that this gets to the core of the issue of privacy. Zuckerberg again raises the point that people “choose” to “share” information with Facebook, which obfuscates the fact that Facebook can infer what hotel you stayed in last night without you ever “sharing” that information in a specific post.
Senator Lindsey Graham asks Zuckerberg whether Facebook is a monopoly.
“It certainly doesn’t feel like that to me,” Zuckerberg replies, to chuckles.
Graham: “Why should we let you self-regulate?”
Zuckerberg: “I think the real question is what is the right regulation?”
Zuckerberg says that Facebook will provide Graham’s office with suggestions for good regulations.
The number of topics under discussion in this hearing is a bit overwhelming, but everything always comes to back the 2016 presidential election and Russia.
Here’s a clip of Zuckerberg stating that Facebook is working with the office of special counsel Robert Mueller, though he is not entirely sure whether the company has received subpoenas.
Facebook CEO Mark Zuckerberg says "there may be" subpoenas from special counsel Robert Mueller's office, but that he has not been interviewed by the special counsel's team."I know we're are working with them." https://t.co/FZKnU3iHdJ pic.twitter.com/TbGbaMQcnJ
Senator Patrick Leahy presses Zuckerberg hard on its role in the ethnic cleansing of Rohingya from Myanmar, holding up a blowup image of a post calling for the death of a Muslim journalist.
“That threat went straight through your detection, spread very quickly, and then it took attempt after attempt after attempt and the involvement of civil society groups” to get Facebook to take it down, Leahy said.
“What’s happening in Myanmar is a terrible tragedy and we need to do more,” Zuckerberg began, but Leahy interrupted.
“We all agree its terrible,” Leahy said, before calling on Facebook to do much more.
Zuckerberg says the company is hiring “dozens” more Burmese language content reviewers, taking down accounts of “specific hate speakers”, and putting together a special product team that will produce some kind of “specific product changes” in Myanmar that he did not specify.
One of the great things about this hearing is that Senators are asking very basic questions about how its service works.
Senator Roger Wicker mentions that he’s heard that Facebook can track internet browsing even after someone has logged out of Facebook, and asks whether that’s true.
Zuckerberg tried to deflect, suggesting that staff would follow up, but then was pushed to concede that Facebook does indeed track cookies.
Senator Maria Cantwell’s line of questioning started with Palantir and wound its way to European data privacy law.Senator Maria Cantwell’s line of questioning started with Palantir and wound its way to European data privacy law.
Along the way, Cantwell got Zuckerberg to commit to finding out whether Facebook employees worked directly with Cambridge Analytica employees during the Trump campaign.Along the way, Cantwell got Zuckerberg to commit to finding out whether Facebook employees worked directly with Cambridge Analytica employees during the Trump campaign.
Senator Orrin Hatch, a Republican from Utah, is offering a basic defense of Facebook’s business model, noting that nothing in life is free. He asks Zuckerberg what kind of regulations Facebook would support.Senator Orrin Hatch, a Republican from Utah, is offering a basic defense of Facebook’s business model, noting that nothing in life is free. He asks Zuckerberg what kind of regulations Facebook would support.
Zuckerberg mentions that it’s important that data policies be understandable for people – which feels like a non sequitur – and warns that too much regulation on issues like facial recognition technology could result in America “falling behind” China and other countries.Zuckerberg mentions that it’s important that data policies be understandable for people – which feels like a non sequitur – and warns that too much regulation on issues like facial recognition technology could result in America “falling behind” China and other countries.
Feinstein is questioning Zuckerberg about election interference. Zuckberberg’s responses are largely hewing to previously released blogposts about the company’s plans for future elections and investigation of past elections.Feinstein is questioning Zuckerberg about election interference. Zuckberberg’s responses are largely hewing to previously released blogposts about the company’s plans for future elections and investigation of past elections.
Why didn’t you ban Cambridge Analytica in 2015? Feinstein asks.Why didn’t you ban Cambridge Analytica in 2015? Feinstein asks.
Zuckerberg responds that Cambridge Analytica was not actually a Facebook advertiser at the time, so there was no way to ban it.Zuckerberg responds that Cambridge Analytica was not actually a Facebook advertiser at the time, so there was no way to ban it.
Thune also asked about Facebook’s ability to manage hate speech. Zuckerberg discusses artificial intelligence and increased staffing for moderation.Thune also asked about Facebook’s ability to manage hate speech. Zuckerberg discusses artificial intelligence and increased staffing for moderation.
“There’s a higher error rate than I’m happy with,” he says.“There’s a higher error rate than I’m happy with,” he says.
Thune begins his questioning by noting that Zuckerberg has been apologizing for the same problems for 14 years and asks why Facebook should be trusted now.Thune begins his questioning by noting that Zuckerberg has been apologizing for the same problems for 14 years and asks why Facebook should be trusted now.
“It’s pretty much impossible to start a company in your dorm room and grow it to our size without making mistakes,” Zuckerberg says.“It’s pretty much impossible to start a company in your dorm room and grow it to our size without making mistakes,” Zuckerberg says.
Zuckerberg also explains that the company is going through a “broader philosophical shift of how we view our responsibility”.Zuckerberg also explains that the company is going through a “broader philosophical shift of how we view our responsibility”.
For the first 12 years, Zuck says, Facebook thought that it was enough to just build tools. Now they’re reckoning with their “broader responsibility”, he says, using a key talking point for Facebook that we will likely hear over and over again in the coming days.For the first 12 years, Zuck says, Facebook thought that it was enough to just build tools. Now they’re reckoning with their “broader responsibility”, he says, using a key talking point for Facebook that we will likely hear over and over again in the coming days.
“It’s not enough to just build tools, we need to make sure they’re used for good.”“It’s not enough to just build tools, we need to make sure they’re used for good.”
Senator Bill Nelson is questioning Facebook’s advertising model, and the use of personal information for targeting individuals. He seems annoyed that Facebook would hypothetically charge users for an ad-free experience, but Zuckerberg points out that Facebook does not offer a paid version, and apparently has no plans to.Senator Bill Nelson is questioning Facebook’s advertising model, and the use of personal information for targeting individuals. He seems annoyed that Facebook would hypothetically charge users for an ad-free experience, but Zuckerberg points out that Facebook does not offer a paid version, and apparently has no plans to.
Zuckerberg says the advertising model is “most aligned with our mission” because it allows the company to offer the service for free.Zuckerberg says the advertising model is “most aligned with our mission” because it allows the company to offer the service for free.
Grassley asks how many other instances of improper data transfer have occurred.
Zuckerberg replies that Facebook is currently doing an audit to find out.
Have you ever required an audit before? Grassley asks.
Zuckerberg says that the company is going to be more “proactive” going forward.
Why doesn’t Facebook disclose to users all the ways their data might be used?
Zuckerberg responds that users can control who sees their posts, which is not exactly the same thing.
Grassley also queries why Facebook’s data policy isn’t more explicit.
“If you make it long and spell out all the detail, then you’re probably going to reduce the number of people who will read it,” Zuckerberg says.
“Proceed, sir,” Senator Grassley says to Zuckerberg, as the opening statements end.
Zuckerberg is now delivering his opening remarks, which appear to be an abridged version of the statement published yesterday.
“My top priority has always been our social mission of connecting people, building community and bringing the world closer together,” Zuckerberg says. “Advertisers and developers will never take priority over that as long as I’m running Facebook.”
Senator Bill Nelson, ranking member of Commerce, Science & Transportation, begins his remarks with a blunt wakeup call directly to Zuckerberg: “If you and other social media companies do not get your act together, none of us are going to have any privacy anymore.”
“If Facebook and other online companies will not or cannot fix the privacy invasions, then we are going to have to,” Nelson added. “We, the congress.”
Earlier, Senator Grassley mentioned that the Judiciary committee plans to hold a separate hearing with Cambridge Analytica.
Senator John Thune, the Republican chairman of the Commerce, Science and Technology committee, is getting started by going straight to the heart of Facebook’s business model – free service in exchange for personal data.
“For this model to persist, both sides of the bargain need to know what’s involved,” Thune said. “I’m not convinced Facebook’s users have the information they need to make decisions.”
Thune went on to say that Congress’s willingness to allow the tech industry to self-regulate “may be changing.”
Senator Chuck Grassley is opening the hearing, which he calls “unique” thanks to its size and breadth.
Forty-four senators will get 5 minutes each to question Zuckerberg, who is wearing a pale blue tie.
“That may not seem seem like a large group by Facebook standards,” Grassley said of the assemblage of so many senators, “but it is significant for the US senate.”
Many senators have arrived in the hearing room, including Ted Cruz, a Republican from Texas and former presidential candidate.
It will be interesting to see whether Cruz mentions his own involvement in this saga: When the Guardian first reported on the Facebook data harvest in December 2015, it was because Ted Cruz’s presidential campaign was using it, via Cambridge Analytica. Read the original report here.
While we wait for the hearing to begin, here’s a preview of what Zuckerberg will say, based on his prepared testimony.
“Facebook is an idealistic and optimistic company,” his statement reads. “But it’s clear now that we didn’t do enough to prevent these tools from being used for harm as well. That goes for fake news, foreign interference in elections and hate speech, as well as developers and data privacy. We didn’t take a broad enough view of our responsibility, and that was a big mistake. It was my mistake, and I’m sorry. I started Facebook, I run it, and I’m responsible for what happens here.”
The hearing was scheduled to begin at 2:15pm eastern, which has just passed. The delay is due to a Senate vote, according to Reuters.
Meanwhile, the hearing room is packed with reporters, a handful of activists from Code Pink, and, according to New York Times reporter Kevin Roose, an actual Russian troll.
Someone came to the hearing dressed as a Russian troll. pic.twitter.com/ZdPEK9MDne
“Congress is theatre,” former Obama administration official Ari Ratner told my colleague Olivia Solon, for her preview of today’s hearing. “More than what they are going to want to learn [about the data lapses], they are going to want to inflict pain.”
The appetite for public humiliation is obviously there. Senator Chris Coons, a Democrat from Delaware and member of the judiciary committee, tweeted early Tuesday that he had discovered multiple fake Facebook accounts impersonating him.
On today of all days, I just found out that there are two fake Facebook accounts impersonating me, and guess what? Many of the ‘friends’ appear to be Russian accounts. @facebook and Mr. Zuckerberg-this is unacceptable pic.twitter.com/woMMdeEGv4
Coons’ apparent pique – “on today of all days” speaks of a certain amount of high dudgeon – is indicative of the attitude many citizens, regulators, and lawmakers feel toward the company that has monetized our identities and intimate relationships: this is personal.
And yet, in order to draw blood, lawmakers will have to actually pass legislation reining in Facebook’s power. It’s hard to imagine that happening with this Congress.
You can read the rest of our preview of today’s hearing here.
Welcome to the Guardian’s live coverage of Mark Zuckerberg appearance before the US Congress. Today, Zuckerberg will answer questions from a joint hearing of the Senate judiciary and commerce, science and transportation committees. Tomorrow he will run the gauntlet again before the House committee on energy and commerce.
The hearing will be live-streamed here.
Zuckerberg’s appearance before Congress – his first, despite having been at the helm of one of the most powerful companies in history for 14 years – is the result of powerful public pressure in the wake of Facebook’s massive data harvesting scandal. Last month, the Observer revealed that the Facebook data of tens of millions of Americans was harvested and improperly transferred to the political consultancy Cambridge Analytica.
Despite initially downplaying the significance of the reporting, Facebook has subsequently apologized, promised to change, and acknowledged that as many as 87m people were affected. The company has also announced a flurry of reforms, from revised terms of service to updated privacy settings, stricter rules for political advertisers and a new data leak bounty.
Today’s hearing is ostensibly about “social media privacy and the use and abuse of data” – but with as many as 44 senators expected to take their turn grilling the CEO, we are likely in for a wide-ranging airing of grievances about the company and its unprecedented power.
Last year, when Congress held hearings about the use of social media by a Russian influence operation, Zuckerberg sent Facebook’s general counsel to testify while he and his family dressed up as characters from Where The Wild Things Are for Halloween.
This time around, Zuckerberg wasn’t able to dodge the bullet. Let the wild rumpus start!