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| Zuckerberg testimony: Facebook CEO grilled by Congress over data misuse – as it happened | |
| (35 minutes later) | |
| Thanks for following along with our live coverage of Zuckerberg’s trip to Congress. If today’s five hours of Zuck weren’t enough for you, tune in tomorrow morning for Round Two: The House of Representatives. | |
| In the meantime, you can read my colleague David Smith’s full report on the day here. | |
| Thune is closing things up by again bringing up concerns about conservative bias, and asks Facebook to err on the side of allowing speech. | |
| Grassley jumps in to say that he spoke with another CEO of another platform yesterday who admitted to him that he was a liberal. Grassley is kind of rambling about media bias and partisanship. | |
| It seems that Grassley is calling on Zuckerberg to reduce cynicism about government institutions in his spare time. “I hope that everyone will do whatever they can to help increase respect for government.” | |
| Zuck remains silent. | |
| “I’m sorry you had to listen to me,” Grassley adds. The hearing is adjourned. | |
| Young: If we created a stronger property right that states users own their data – or a stronger opt-in rule – would you have to change Facebook fundamentally? | |
| Zuck: It depends on the details. | |
| Zuck says that Verizon or other ISPs should not be able to have knowledge of content, but Facebook and other platforms can and should. | |
| False alarm on the final questioner: We now have Senator Todd Young, who notes that there isn’t a single senator who doesn’t use Facebook to communicate with constituents. | |
| Tester: You said multiple times during this hearing that I own the data. I’m going to tell you that I think that sounds good, but in practice you’re making $40bn a year, I’m not making money on it. It feels like you own the data... Could you give me some idea on how you can honestly say it’s my data? | |
| Zuck: When I say it’s your data, what we mean is that you have control over how it’s used on Facebook. You clearly need to give Facebook a license to use it otherwise the system doesn’t work. | |
| Tester: The fact is the license is very thick, maybe intentionally so. | |
| We’re getting close to the end, with the final round of questions from Senator Jon Tester. | |
| Gardner: Has Facebook ever been hacked? | |
| Zuckerberg: Yes, but not that seriously. He says there was a malware attack in 2013. | |
| Garder is now asking about Facebook’s ability to track the articles people read on non-Facebook sites (such as this one!). Garder asks whether users understand what is happening, and Zuck stumbles toward saying yes, which is a tough claim to make. | Garder is now asking about Facebook’s ability to track the articles people read on non-Facebook sites (such as this one!). Garder asks whether users understand what is happening, and Zuck stumbles toward saying yes, which is a tough claim to make. |
| Zuck says the social context of having the “Like” button is a clue, but I would guess that most users don’t know exactly how Facebook uses those ubiquitous Like buttons. | Zuck says the social context of having the “Like” button is a clue, but I would guess that most users don’t know exactly how Facebook uses those ubiquitous Like buttons. |
| Here’s a ProPublica explainer of how that works. | Here’s a ProPublica explainer of how that works. |
| Senator Cory Gardner is now reading parts of the terms of service related to account deletion, which mentions that backup copies may persist after an account is deleted for some amount of time. | Senator Cory Gardner is now reading parts of the terms of service related to account deletion, which mentions that backup copies may persist after an account is deleted for some amount of time. |
| Zuckerberg says he doesn’t really know how long those backup copies stick around, but seems confident that they are actually deleted. | Zuckerberg says he doesn’t really know how long those backup copies stick around, but seems confident that they are actually deleted. |
| Cortez Masto is reading out various aspects of the 2011 FTC consent decree. What did you actually do in response to the decree? | Cortez Masto is reading out various aspects of the 2011 FTC consent decree. What did you actually do in response to the decree? |
| Zuckerberg: We established a robust program... | Zuckerberg: We established a robust program... |
| Cortez Masto: Had you addressed the issues then, had you done an audit, you would have known that this type of data was being shared. That’s what I’m saying it’s time for the change. | Cortez Masto: Had you addressed the issues then, had you done an audit, you would have known that this type of data was being shared. That’s what I’m saying it’s time for the change. |
| Senator Catherine Cortez Masto: “Stop apologizing and let’s make the change. It’s time to really change the conduct.” | Senator Catherine Cortez Masto: “Stop apologizing and let’s make the change. It’s time to really change the conduct.” |
| Senator Shelley Moore Capito: Does Facebook get a cut of advertisers’ sales? | Senator Shelley Moore Capito: Does Facebook get a cut of advertisers’ sales? |
| Zuck: No. | Zuck: No. |
| Now Zuck is kind of explaining the ad auction, which is very confusing territory. “We get paid when the action the advertiser wants to happen happens.” | Now Zuck is kind of explaining the ad auction, which is very confusing territory. “We get paid when the action the advertiser wants to happen happens.” |
| Hassan: Will you commit to working with congress to develop ways to ways of protecting constituents, even if it means laws that adjust your business model? | Hassan: Will you commit to working with congress to develop ways to ways of protecting constituents, even if it means laws that adjust your business model? |
| Zuck: Yes. Our position is not that regulation is wrong. Says that they just want to make sure it’s the “right” regulation. | Zuck: Yes. Our position is not that regulation is wrong. Says that they just want to make sure it’s the “right” regulation. |
| Hassan: We need financial incentives against data breaches. | Hassan: We need financial incentives against data breaches. |
| Zuck: This episode has clearly hurt us and has made it a lot harder for us to achieve our social mission. | Zuck: This episode has clearly hurt us and has made it a lot harder for us to achieve our social mission. |
| Senator Maggie Hassan: “There’s clearly tension between your bottom line and what’s good for your users.” | Senator Maggie Hassan: “There’s clearly tension between your bottom line and what’s good for your users.” |
| Hassan says that she believes that Zuckerberg believes that he will never prioritize advertisers over users, but it’s a for profit company, and he has an obligation to his shareholders. | Hassan says that she believes that Zuckerberg believes that he will never prioritize advertisers over users, but it’s a for profit company, and he has an obligation to his shareholders. |
| Senator Ron Johnson: Do you have any idea how many users actually read the terms of service? | Senator Ron Johnson: Do you have any idea how many users actually read the terms of service? |
| Zuck says probably not a lot of people, but he doesn’t know. Says that everyone has the “opportunity” to read them, and that it doesn’t change the fact that they’ve consented to it. | Zuck says probably not a lot of people, but he doesn’t know. Says that everyone has the “opportunity” to read them, and that it doesn’t change the fact that they’ve consented to it. |
| Considering that Facebook (and any other publisher) can tell how many seconds a user stays on any individual webpage, I see no reason why Facebook couldn’t provide precise analytics of how many people have read the terms of service and how deep into the document they got. | Considering that Facebook (and any other publisher) can tell how many seconds a user stays on any individual webpage, I see no reason why Facebook couldn’t provide precise analytics of how many people have read the terms of service and how deep into the document they got. |
| Senator Tammy Baldwin asks whether Kogan sold the Facebook data to anyone besides Cambridge Analytica? | Senator Tammy Baldwin asks whether Kogan sold the Facebook data to anyone besides Cambridge Analytica? |
| Zuckerberg: Yes, he did. | Zuckerberg: Yes, he did. |
| Zuck mentions Eunoia as one of the companies, but says there may be others. | Zuck mentions Eunoia as one of the companies, but says there may be others. |
| John Kennedy: Can somebody call you up and say I want to see John Kennedy’s file? | John Kennedy: Can somebody call you up and say I want to see John Kennedy’s file? |
| Zuck: Absolutely not. | Zuck: Absolutely not. |
| Kennedy: Not can you do it. Could you do it? | Kennedy: Not can you do it. Could you do it? |
| Zuck: Technically someone could do that but it would be a massive breach. | Zuck: Technically someone could do that but it would be a massive breach. |
| Senator John Kennedy: I don’t want to regulate Facebook but god help you I will... I say this gently: your user agreement sucks. You can spot me 75 IQ points. The purpose of that user agreement is to cover Facebook’s rear end, it’s not to inform your users about their rights. You know that and I know that. I’m going to suggest that you go home and rewrite it. | Senator John Kennedy: I don’t want to regulate Facebook but god help you I will... I say this gently: your user agreement sucks. You can spot me 75 IQ points. The purpose of that user agreement is to cover Facebook’s rear end, it’s not to inform your users about their rights. You know that and I know that. I’m going to suggest that you go home and rewrite it. |