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Zuckerberg testimony: Facebook CEO says protecting 2018 elections is top priority – live
Zuckerberg testimony: Facebook CEO says protecting 2018 elections is top priority – live
(35 minutes later)
Garder is now asking about Facebook’s ability to track the articles people read on non-Facebook sites (such as this one!). Garder asks whether users understand what is happening, and Zuck stumbles toward saying yes, which is a tough claim to make.
Zuck says the social context of having the “Like” button is a clue, but I would guess that most users don’t know exactly how Facebook uses those ubiquitous Like buttons.
Here’s a ProPublica explainer of how that works.
Senator Cory Gardner is now reading parts of the terms of service related to account deletion, which mentions that backup copies may persist after an account is deleted for some amount of time.
Zuckerberg says he doesn’t really know how long those backup copies stick around, but seems confident that they are actually deleted.
Cortez Masto is reading out various aspects of the 2011 FTC consent decree. What did you actually do in response to the decree?
Zuckerberg: We established a robust program...
Cortez Masto: Had you addressed the issues then, had you done an audit, you would have known that this type of data was being shared. That’s what I’m saying it’s time for the change.
Senator Catherine Cortez Masto: “Stop apologizing and let’s make the change. It’s time to really change the conduct.”
Senator Shelley Moore Capito: Does Facebook get a cut of advertisers’ sales?
Zuck: No.
Now Zuck is kind of explaining the ad auction, which is very confusing territory. “We get paid when the action the advertiser wants to happen happens.”
Hassan: Will you commit to working with congress to develop ways to ways of protecting constituents, even if it means laws that adjust your business model?
Zuck: Yes. Our position is not that regulation is wrong. Says that they just want to make sure it’s the “right” regulation.
Hassan: We need financial incentives against data breaches.
Zuck: This episode has clearly hurt us and has made it a lot harder for us to achieve our social mission.
Senator Maggie Hassan: “There’s clearly tension between your bottom line and what’s good for your users.”
Hassan says that she believes that Zuckerberg believes that he will never prioritize advertisers over users, but it’s a for profit company, and he has an obligation to his shareholders.
Senator Ron Johnson: Do you have any idea how many users actually read the terms of service?
Zuck says probably not a lot of people, but he doesn’t know. Says that everyone has the “opportunity” to read them, and that it doesn’t change the fact that they’ve consented to it.
Considering that Facebook (and any other publisher) can tell how many seconds a user stays on any individual webpage, I see no reason why Facebook couldn’t provide precise analytics of how many people have read the terms of service and how deep into the document they got.
Senator Tammy Baldwin asks whether Kogan sold the Facebook data to anyone besides Cambridge Analytica?
Zuckerberg: Yes, he did.
Zuck mentions Eunoia as one of the companies, but says there may be others.
John Kennedy: Can somebody call you up and say I want to see John Kennedy’s file?
Zuck: Absolutely not.
Kennedy: Not can you do it. Could you do it?
Zuck: Technically someone could do that but it would be a massive breach.
Senator John Kennedy: I don’t want to regulate Facebook but god help you I will... I say this gently: your user agreement sucks. You can spot me 75 IQ points. The purpose of that user agreement is to cover Facebook’s rear end, it’s not to inform your users about their rights. You know that and I know that. I’m going to suggest that you go home and rewrite it.
Senator John Kennedy: I don’t want to regulate Facebook but god help you I will... I say this gently: your user agreement sucks. You can spot me 75 IQ points. The purpose of that user agreement is to cover Facebook’s rear end, it’s not to inform your users about their rights. You know that and I know that. I’m going to suggest that you go home and rewrite it.
Harris says that Facebook’s response to written questions from the last hearing “evasive and some were frankly non-responsive”.
She says she’s going to submit more questions.
Senator Kamala Harris sets the tone for her questioning by listing all the questions Zuckerberg has dodged so far: “During the course of this hearing, you’ve been asked several critical questions for which you don’t have answers. Those questions include whether Facebook can track activity after a user logs off, whether Facebook can track you across devices, who is Facebook’s biggest competition, whether FB stores up to 96 categories of users information. Whether you knew Kogan’s terms of services, and another case in point related to Cambridge Analytica, is that you became aware in December 2015 that Kogan misappropriated data from 87m users. That’s 27 months ago. However, a decision was made not to notify.”
The former prosecutor is now quizzing Zuckerberg on the decision making process that led Facebook NOT to notify users: “So my question is, did anyone at Facebook have a conversation at the time that you became aware of this breach wherein the decision was made not to contact the users?”
Zuckerberg: I don’t know if there were any conversations at all at Facebook... I don’t know what other people discussed.
Zuck says he doesn’t remember having a conversation where Facebook decided not to inform the users. Says that in retrospect it was a mistake.
Tillis: I’m a proud member of Facebook... If you don’t want to share something don’t share it... It’s a free app. Go on there and find out what you signed up there.
Finally, Tillis gets around to a question: When you were developing this thing in your dorm, how many people did you have on your regulatory affairs department?
Tillis’s point is that regulation could kill the next Facebook in its cradle. He never actually gave Zuckerberg a chance to respond.
And we’re back!
Senator Thom Tillis is kicking off by discussing Zuckerberg’s personal Facebook feed. Then he pivots to discuss the Obama campaign’s use of a Facebook app in 2012, and suggests that this activity needs to be part of the conversation related to Cambridge Analytica.
This live blogger is struggling to keep up to date with her bingo card, but here’s an update to tide you over during the break.
It’s hard to play bingo and live blog, but I think this is where we are. Could have missed some squares though. pic.twitter.com/gRdmKE49OV
Senator Gary Peters: I’ve heard constituents fear that Facebook is mining audio, which I think speaks to the lack of trust. Does Facebook use audio obtained from mobile devices?
Zuckerberg: No.
He calls the idea that Facebook listens to people a “conspiracy theory”.
Senator Dean Heller: Have you ever drawn the line on what kind of data you will sell to advertisers?
Zuckerberg jumps on Heller’s misstatement – that Facebook doesn’t “sell” data – and dodges the question of whether Facebook would ever draw a line on what kind of data it collects or uses to target advertisers.
Heller: Do you record the contents of our calls?
Zuck: I don’t believe we’ve ever collected the content of phone calls.
Heller: Do you believe you’re more responsible with our data than the US government?
Zuck: Yes.
Heller: Do you think you’re a victim? Do you think you’re company is a victim.
Zuck: No. We have a responsibility to protect anyone in our community.
Heller: Do you consider the 87m to be victims?
Zuck: Yes... That happened and it happened on our watch.
Booker: “You are an industry that lacks diversity.” Asks whether Facebook would open its platform to civil rights organizations to audit what’s happening with discrimination.
Zuck: That’s a good idea. Let’s follow up.
Booker: Raises concern about use of Facebook by law enforcement to surveil groups like Black Lives Matter. Will you ensure that your platform isn’t used to surveil and undermind the work of civil rights activist?
Zuck: Yes. Notes that Facebook only supplies information to law enforcement with a subpoena or warrant.
Yesterday, CNN reported that one of the largest “Black Lives Matter” pages on Facebook was actually being run by a white Australian man.
Senator Cory Booker: “We’ve seen how technology platforms can be used to double down on discrimination.”
Booker is talking about all the ways that Facebook’s ad targeting tools can and have been used to publish discriminatory advertisements in violation of civil rights legislation, despite Facebook’s promise to reform.
Booker mentions that Facebook’s reforms have included requiring self-certification by advertisers that they aren’t being discriminatory, but notes that self-certification didn’t work with Cambridge Analytica.
Zuckerberg again brings up artificial intelligence tools and a desire to become more “proactive,” but adds: “I’m not happy with where we are.”
Senator Jerry Moran: How does 87m Facebook friends having their data shared when only 300,000 consented not violate the consent decree?
Zuck: Our view is that we didn’t violate the consent order. The way that the app worked is how we explained that it worked. The system worked as it was designed, the issue is that we designed the system in a way that wasn’t good.
Moran: You’re not suggesting that the friends consented?
Zuck says that it was clear how the system worked, so therefore consent was given. About 86.7m people would probably disagree.
This is very tricky territory for Zuck, and he’s falling back onto talking points about the value Facebook saw in having such an open API.
