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| Brexit: MPs start debate on indicative votes as May hints she might reject what Commons chooses – live news | Brexit: MPs start debate on indicative votes as May hints she might reject what Commons chooses – live news |
| (32 minutes later) | |
| Letwin says MPs should allow themselves a couple of days to do what should have been done over a couple of years. | |
| He says he thinks it would make sense to start by allowing MPs who support various options, like a people’s vote, or Norway plus, or whatever. | |
| He says the Speaker has a lot of experience at choosing amendments that have support in the house for debate. | |
| He says he is opposed to revoking article 50, but he accepts it is a serious option. | |
| My colleague Jessica Elgot says some supporters of a second referendum are arguing that this should not be an option in indicative votes, because that is a process option not an outcome option. | |
| This view is gaining traction that a referendum should *not* be among the options for indicative votes because it is a process not a Brexit option. MPs think that then avoids splitting the vote. PV backers can vote for soft Brexit/Common Market 2.0 and then amend to add ref. https://t.co/3Oxifwsyzv | |
| Letwin says he thinks he will have to press his amendment to a vote tonight. | |
| Ken Clarke, the Tory pro-European, intervenes. He asks what system would be used to decide what system MPs can agree on. He says he thinks the single transferrable vote system would be best. | |
| Letwin says this could be discussed on Wednesday. But he says he thinks it would be best for MPs to vote on all options at the same time, voting on paper, so the Commons can determine which ideas have a lot of support, and which don’t. | |
| He says that would deal with the problems that might arise if people vote sequentially. | |
| After that, there could be further votes, he says. | |
| This is from the Press Association’s Richard Wheeler. | |
| Tory former minister Sir Oliver Letwin refers to meaningful vote “infinity”...“Don’t encourage her,” shouts one Labour MP. | |
| Letwin says he is surprised to find himself in the role of rebel. | |
| He always used to be a very loyal MP, he says. | |
| And he says, although he voted remain, he thinks the result of the referendum should be honoured. | |
| In the past he has tried to bring Tory backbenchers together, he says. | |
| He also says he has voted for Theresa May’s Brexit deal, and will continue to do so. | |
| Sir Oliver Letwin, the Conservative who has tabled the key indicative votes amendment, is speaking now. | |
| He says people have said that his amendment would overturn an ancient constitutional principle. | |
| But he says the principle that government business takes precedence in Commons business only dates back to 1906. | |
| (Letwin’s amendment would suspend this rule for a day, on Wednesday, so as to allow the start of the indicative votes process.) | |
| Starmer says he used to say the PM was surviving by the week. Then he said she was surviving by the day. Now she is surviving by the hour, he says. | |
| He ends by urging MPs to back the Letwin amendment so they can take back control. | |
| This is from Iain Anderson, a Brexit-watcher, PR professional and former Tory adviser. | |
| I’m told Letwin on around 310 votes at the moment #Brexit | |
| In a very close division, 310 votes might not be enough. Two weeks ago the Hilary Benn amendment, also calling for an indicative votes process, was defeated by 314 votes to 312. | |
| Here is the BBC’s Laura Kuenssberg on where we are with the Letwin vote tonight. | Here is the BBC’s Laura Kuenssberg on where we are with the Letwin vote tonight. |
| 1. Eyes on Commons now for debate over Letwin amendment to take control of Brexit process - a 100000000000000000000 caveats | 1. Eyes on Commons now for debate over Letwin amendment to take control of Brexit process - a 100000000000000000000 caveats |
| 2. Govt has accepted principle of giving time for MPs to do this anyway, and it's not impossible that govt will end up accepting Letwin plan much later in the debate tonight | 2. Govt has accepted principle of giving time for MPs to do this anyway, and it's not impossible that govt will end up accepting Letwin plan much later in the debate tonight |
| See 6.18pm for more on this aspect. | See 6.18pm for more on this aspect. |
| 3. Also not impossible that rebels don't quite have the numbers - some remainer minister-types might end up quitting in order to back plan and No 10 thinks Letwin will win, but never wise to assume anything these days | 3. Also not impossible that rebels don't quite have the numbers - some remainer minister-types might end up quitting in order to back plan and No 10 thinks Letwin will win, but never wise to assume anything these days |
| 4. Even if MP s do go for these kinds of votes, there isn't necessarily a majority for any of the possible options, nor would the votes be binding on the government - doesn't mean it would have no impact politically, but they wouldn't force ministers to change course | 4. Even if MP s do go for these kinds of votes, there isn't necessarily a majority for any of the possible options, nor would the votes be binding on the government - doesn't mean it would have no impact politically, but they wouldn't force ministers to change course |
| Back in the debate Ken Clarke, the pro-European, asks Starmer if Labour will allow its MPs a free vote during the indicative votes process. He says this is what happened in 1972 when the government passed the legislation taking the UK into Europe. | Back in the debate Ken Clarke, the pro-European, asks Starmer if Labour will allow its MPs a free vote during the indicative votes process. He says this is what happened in 1972 when the government passed the legislation taking the UK into Europe. |
| Starmer says, if the Letwin amendment is passed, Labour will decide what it will do. But the party does not know what the options might be. If one option were to be a no-deal Brexit, of course Labour would whip against it, he says. And he says, if MPs backed that, Labour would still not support it. | Starmer says, if the Letwin amendment is passed, Labour will decide what it will do. But the party does not know what the options might be. If one option were to be a no-deal Brexit, of course Labour would whip against it, he says. And he says, if MPs backed that, Labour would still not support it. |
| Starmer says Labour MPs will not necessarily be given a free vote on all indicative vote options. | Starmer says Labour MPs will not necessarily be given a free vote on all indicative vote options. |
| About half an hour ago Dominic Grieve, the Conservative pro-European, mentioned reports saying the cabinet has been taking Brexit decisions based on what is best for the Conservative party, not what is best for the country. (See 6pm.) | About half an hour ago Dominic Grieve, the Conservative pro-European, mentioned reports saying the cabinet has been taking Brexit decisions based on what is best for the Conservative party, not what is best for the country. (See 6pm.) |
| The Times columnist Rachel Sylvester has just published a column (paywall) with more on this charge. Here is an extract. | The Times columnist Rachel Sylvester has just published a column (paywall) with more on this charge. Here is an extract. |
| I am told that the minutes of the cabinet meeting contain at least five references to the Tories’ narrow political concerns. According to the official account, written by Sir Mark Sedwill, the cabinet secretary, ministers discussed how the government is “committed to delivering Brexit — not to do so would be damaging to the Conservative party”. And in a clear sign of the political nature of the discussion chaired by the prime minister, the minutes end with the words: “The Conservative party wants to stay in government and get councillors elected. The arguments in parliament could jeopardise that.” | I am told that the minutes of the cabinet meeting contain at least five references to the Tories’ narrow political concerns. According to the official account, written by Sir Mark Sedwill, the cabinet secretary, ministers discussed how the government is “committed to delivering Brexit — not to do so would be damaging to the Conservative party”. And in a clear sign of the political nature of the discussion chaired by the prime minister, the minutes end with the words: “The Conservative party wants to stay in government and get councillors elected. The arguments in parliament could jeopardise that.” |
| It is extremely unusual for such language to creep into a civil service note — partisan debates are supposed to be limited to special political cabinet meetings from which officials are excluded. In fact the tone of the minutes was so extraordinary that the issue was raised at this morning’s cabinet meeting by ministers who stressed the importance of governing in the national rather than the party interest. | It is extremely unusual for such language to creep into a civil service note — partisan debates are supposed to be limited to special political cabinet meetings from which officials are excluded. In fact the tone of the minutes was so extraordinary that the issue was raised at this morning’s cabinet meeting by ministers who stressed the importance of governing in the national rather than the party interest. |
| This was, however, part of a pattern. One Whitehall source says: “In recent weeks there have been an increasing number of mentions in cabinet minutes about how Brexit has to be delivered for the sake of the Conservative party. That will be damning when the public inquiry into Brexit happens. The civil service are now finding ways of ensuring that the political decisions that are being taken will one day be fully understood.” | This was, however, part of a pattern. One Whitehall source says: “In recent weeks there have been an increasing number of mentions in cabinet minutes about how Brexit has to be delivered for the sake of the Conservative party. That will be damning when the public inquiry into Brexit happens. The civil service are now finding ways of ensuring that the political decisions that are being taken will one day be fully understood.” |
| Starmer says he thinks the government will lose the debate on the Letwin amendment tonight. | Starmer says he thinks the government will lose the debate on the Letwin amendment tonight. |
| Sir Keir Starmer, the shadow Brexit secretary, is now responding for Labour. | Sir Keir Starmer, the shadow Brexit secretary, is now responding for Labour. |
| He says the government’s position seems to be that it sort of sees the case for indicative votes, but disagrees with them too. | He says the government’s position seems to be that it sort of sees the case for indicative votes, but disagrees with them too. |
| Turning to the Labour amendment, he says Labour is not criticising anything in the withdrawal agreement. He says he hopes this means Labour now supports the withdrawal agreement. | Turning to the Labour amendment, he says Labour is not criticising anything in the withdrawal agreement. He says he hopes this means Labour now supports the withdrawal agreement. |
| Lidington is now talking about the statutory instrument laid by the government today changing the date of Brexit in the EU Withdrawal Act to take account of the fact that Brexit has been delayed. He says the SI contains two alternative new dates, to reflect what was agreed in Brussels last week. | Lidington is now talking about the statutory instrument laid by the government today changing the date of Brexit in the EU Withdrawal Act to take account of the fact that Brexit has been delayed. He says the SI contains two alternative new dates, to reflect what was agreed in Brussels last week. |
| Here is the exit date Statutory Instrument - it has two dates and times. pic.twitter.com/gPl6JtvmjV | Here is the exit date Statutory Instrument - it has two dates and times. pic.twitter.com/gPl6JtvmjV |
| Sir Oliver Letwin intervenes. He says, if the government’s only objection to the amendment is that it is not a government one, ministers could have accepted it as a government amendment. He tells Lidington he could just offer to adopt the amendment, and hold the same debate on Wednesday, in the same way. | Sir Oliver Letwin intervenes. He says, if the government’s only objection to the amendment is that it is not a government one, ministers could have accepted it as a government amendment. He tells Lidington he could just offer to adopt the amendment, and hold the same debate on Wednesday, in the same way. |
| Lidington says he cannot offer more on that now. But Stephen Barclay, the Brexit secretary, may be able to say more when he winds up the debate, Lidington says. | Lidington says he cannot offer more on that now. But Stephen Barclay, the Brexit secretary, may be able to say more when he winds up the debate, Lidington says. |
| Sarah Newton, the Conservative who resigned as a minister earlier this month so she could vote to rule out a no-deal Brexit, tells Lidington it would be easier just to accept the Letwin amendment. | Sarah Newton, the Conservative who resigned as a minister earlier this month so she could vote to rule out a no-deal Brexit, tells Lidington it would be easier just to accept the Letwin amendment. |
| Lidington says the Letwin amendment would disrupt the balance between the legislature and the executive. | Lidington says the Letwin amendment would disrupt the balance between the legislature and the executive. |