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| Labour leadership: Blaming 2019 defeat just on Brexit 'not honest', says Starmer at Guardian hustings - live news | |
| (32 minutes later) | |
| Rolling coverage of the day’s political developments as they happen, including the EU agreeing its negotiating mandate for the post-Brexit trade talks with the UK, and the Guardian’s Labour leadership hustings in Manchester | Rolling coverage of the day’s political developments as they happen, including the EU agreeing its negotiating mandate for the post-Brexit trade talks with the UK, and the Guardian’s Labour leadership hustings in Manchester |
| Long-Bailey says she thinks Boris Johnson would have trouble taking on a “bolshy northern woman” like herself at PMQs. | |
| Q: [To Long-Bailey] Do you regret your response at a recent event to the person who asked about the Israeli lobby? | |
| That is a reference to this moment. | |
| Long-Bailey says she thought, in a long answer, she had shown why the man’s claim was wrong. But she says she should have been clearer about why he was wrong to say what he did. | |
| Starmer says Labour has to be effective from day one. Boris Johnson is not a cuddly clown. He is dangerous, he says. | |
| He says the leader must model unity. | |
| And he says the party must demonstrate change from day one. | |
| And this is particularly important on antisemitism, he says. | |
| He says the leader should have a “line of sight” on this. He should have these cases on his desk every Friday. He says he knows from running a large organisation (the CPS) that you have to act like this. | |
| Long-Bailey defends her plan for open selections. She says this could help Labour to find candidates like Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez (the young, dynamic new Democratic congresswoman in the US). | |
| Nandy says she disagrees. Labour should be getting rid of Tory MPs, not Labour ones. Under open selection, the sort of candidates who would be removed would be the female or BAME onles like Ocasio-Cortez. | |
| She also says she would make Labour less London-centric. She would move the HQ to Warrington, she says. | |
| Q: [To Starmer] Is it true that the most exciting thing you have done is take your kids to the football? (That is prompted by Starmer’s reply to a question on LBC yesterday.) | |
| Starmer says he objects to questions like this. His mother-in-law died recently. He has spent time “trying to be the best husband I can” and dealing with grieving children. And then he gets asked questions like this. He goes on: | |
| The person who tells the world the most exciting thing they’ve done on live media hasn’t done anything really exciting. | |
| Q: You mentioned your children. If you become leader, how will you have time for family life? | |
| Starmer says you have to make time. He tries to protect Friday nights, so his family all spent time together, with their devices off. | |
| He says children can get great levellers. He says his recently told his daughter about going to a fund-raising dinner. When he said he was the speaker, she asked why anyone would pay money to hear him speak. | |
| Q: [To Nandy] Do you regret being involved in the campaign to get rid of Jeremy Corbyn in 2016? | |
| Nandy says it was a very difficult period. The party was very divided. There was a real problem with antisemitism. | |
| (Someone in the audience expressed doubts about this.) | |
| Nandy says she was trying to hold things together. But the two sides seemed determined to fight it out. She went to see the Corbyn camp and urged them to settle the divisions, but she was told they had to fight it out until one side lost. | |
| She left the shadow cabinet, but still served the party. She organised a byelection. | |
| But what is important is to do the right thing. | |
| Q: [To Long-Bailey] To win, Labour will have to win back people who voted Tory. But you said your friends would not even tell you if they voted Tory. How are you going to persuade people? | |
| Long-Bailey says that remark (in a BBC interview at the start of the campaign) was a joke. She says she does have a friend who votes Tory. | |
| Q: [To Long-Bailey] Your friend Angela Rayner says Jeremy Corbyn did not command respect in the party. Do you agree? | |
| Long-Bailey says she thinks Rayner was talking about the problem with disunity in the party. The party should unite, she says. | |
| Turning back to Brexit, she says the vote for Brexit was triggered by distrust. People do not trust Brussels politicians. But they don’t trust Westminster ones either. | |
| Nandy says Brexit was the “straw that broke the camel’s back” for Labour at the election. She says the “get Brexit done” Tory slogan was highly effective. She says Labour sounded tone deaf. | |
| She says the problem was not that Labour tried to find a compromise. It didn’t, she says. She says she pushed for one (a soft Brexit), but was threatened with expulsion by some people. | |
| Q: [To Starmer] Are you to blame for pushing Labour into a Brexit policy that alienated voters? | |
| Starmer says anyone in the party knows that the leadership was the most serious problem. “Rightly or wrongly,” he says. He accepts Brexit caused a problem. He says there was a manifesto overload. And antisemitism came up, he says. That was a values issue and a competence issue, he says. | |
| He says Labour cannot pretend that, if it had not been for Brexit, everything would be fine. “That’s not an honest analysis”, he says. | |
| But he also says Labour must now accept that Brexit is done. | |
| This gets a round of applause. | |
| Long-Bailey says she regrets the way the party campaigned on Brexit at the general election. She says the compromise position did not satisfy remainers or leavers. | |
| She defends the rest of the manifesto, although she says Labour should have been clearer about the difference between firm promises and long-term aspirations (like the four-day week). | |
| Starmer also says the candidates have all agreed not to take quick-fire questions. | Starmer also says the candidates have all agreed not to take quick-fire questions. |
| Starmer says he thinks Labour lost confidence in the summer of 2015, after the election defeat. This is when Labour abstained on the welfare bill, although he does not mention that specifically. | Starmer says he thinks Labour lost confidence in the summer of 2015, after the election defeat. This is when Labour abstained on the welfare bill, although he does not mention that specifically. |
| He says a lot of decisions were taken in this period that had a lasting effect. Someone should write a book about it, he says. | He says a lot of decisions were taken in this period that had a lasting effect. Someone should write a book about it, he says. |
| Q: Do you have any political regrets? | Q: Do you have any political regrets? |
| Nandy says she does. She worked for the Children’s Society before becoming an MP. They led the campaign against vouchers for refugees. They won some battles. But what they did not do was go out to the public, and win the arguments there. They did not get public support for their cause. | Nandy says she does. She worked for the Children’s Society before becoming an MP. They led the campaign against vouchers for refugees. They won some battles. But what they did not do was go out to the public, and win the arguments there. They did not get public support for their cause. |
| She say the same problem occurred with Brexit. Remain had not made the case for the EU to the public. | She say the same problem occurred with Brexit. Remain had not made the case for the EU to the public. |
| She says, because her charity had not won the argument on refugees, the Tories were able to reverse Labour’s policy. | She says, because her charity had not won the argument on refugees, the Tories were able to reverse Labour’s policy. |
| Labour was making arguments about Margaret Thatcher at the last election. That was not relevant to people, she suggests. | Labour was making arguments about Margaret Thatcher at the last election. That was not relevant to people, she suggests. |
| She says Labour has to win over the public. | She says Labour has to win over the public. |
| She gets a round of applause. | She gets a round of applause. |
| Long-Bailey says she remembers her dad, a union rep, talking about politics while she listened as a child from the top of the stairs. Then she worked in a pawn shop. She saw how poverty was driving people to pawn their goods. She went to university. But she felt she was getting opportunities that were not available to other people. | Long-Bailey says she remembers her dad, a union rep, talking about politics while she listened as a child from the top of the stairs. Then she worked in a pawn shop. She saw how poverty was driving people to pawn their goods. She went to university. But she felt she was getting opportunities that were not available to other people. |
| Then she remembers taking her mum to a Labour meeting. She thought she would not get involved. But she did, because he was so angry about someone proposing that Labour back charges for hospital meals. | Then she remembers taking her mum to a Labour meeting. She thought she would not get involved. But she did, because he was so angry about someone proposing that Labour back charges for hospital meals. |
| Anushka says she wants to start with the past. | Anushka says she wants to start with the past. |
| Q: Is there a formative experience that helped you to become a politician? | Q: Is there a formative experience that helped you to become a politician? |
| Nandy says she thinks her mum is in the audience. Her dad is Indian. She says she saw him campaign for race relations. Her mum worked for Grenada TV, on programmes like World in Action. She was a real inspiration too. She says she saw how people can be empowered to do better. | Nandy says she thinks her mum is in the audience. Her dad is Indian. She says she saw him campaign for race relations. Her mum worked for Grenada TV, on programmes like World in Action. She was a real inspiration too. She says she saw how people can be empowered to do better. |
| Starmer says there is no one answer to this for him. He says he is suspicious of the idea one single factor applies. He was brought up in a Labour household. His mum got ill, and he spent a lot of time in hospital high-dependency units. His mum was very opposed to private health. She got him to promise that he would not let his dad go private, even though she was very seriously ill. They nearly lost her a few times. | Starmer says there is no one answer to this for him. He says he is suspicious of the idea one single factor applies. He was brought up in a Labour household. His mum got ill, and he spent a lot of time in hospital high-dependency units. His mum was very opposed to private health. She got him to promise that he would not let his dad go private, even though she was very seriously ill. They nearly lost her a few times. |
| He says his parents were very proud when he went to university. When he went to study law, he did not even know the difference between a solicitor and a barrister. But he discovered human rights law, and was inspired by that. Most of that involved attacking things. But then he went to Northern Ireland, and he worked with the police on turning the RUC into the Police Service of Northern Ireland. | He says his parents were very proud when he went to university. When he went to study law, he did not even know the difference between a solicitor and a barrister. But he discovered human rights law, and was inspired by that. Most of that involved attacking things. But then he went to Northern Ireland, and he worked with the police on turning the RUC into the Police Service of Northern Ireland. |
| Then he worked for the Crown Prosecution Service, he says. By the time he became an MP, he was worried that something important, the social contract, was being undermined. | Then he worked for the Crown Prosecution Service, he says. By the time he became an MP, he was worried that something important, the social contract, was being undermined. |
| We are now on opening statements. | We are now on opening statements. |
| Long-Bailey goes first. She defends the 2019 manifesto, and says if people vote for her, Labour will have a vision, it will have the courage of its convictions, and it will have a path to power. | Long-Bailey goes first. She defends the 2019 manifesto, and says if people vote for her, Labour will have a vision, it will have the courage of its convictions, and it will have a path to power. |
| Nandy says this was not an ordinary election. Nurses and ex-miners who had voted Labour before abandoned the party. She says the party has a narrow opportunity to get things right. It cannot just offer the same again. She says Labour must not just rebuild the red wall, but build a bridge to that future. | Nandy says this was not an ordinary election. Nurses and ex-miners who had voted Labour before abandoned the party. She says the party has a narrow opportunity to get things right. It cannot just offer the same again. She says Labour must not just rebuild the red wall, but build a bridge to that future. |
| Starmer starts by thanking the audience for coming. He is looking forward to the questions. The one burning question is, who can we win the next election. Defeat was devastating for people who needed change. He says Labour has lost four elections in a row, and if it loses the next one, it will have been out of power for longer than any period since the war. Labour can tear lumps out of each other; it is good at that. But if it wants to win, it must unite. | Starmer starts by thanking the audience for coming. He is looking forward to the questions. The one burning question is, who can we win the next election. Defeat was devastating for people who needed change. He says Labour has lost four elections in a row, and if it loses the next one, it will have been out of power for longer than any period since the war. Labour can tear lumps out of each other; it is good at that. But if it wants to win, it must unite. |
| Anushka asks audience members if they think they know who they will vote for. Most hands go up. But then she asks if candidates could say something that would make them change their minds. Almost the same number of hands go up too. | Anushka asks audience members if they think they know who they will vote for. Most hands go up. But then she asks if candidates could say something that would make them change their minds. Almost the same number of hands go up too. |