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Labour leadership: blaming 2019 defeat just on Brexit 'not honest', says Starmer at Guardian hustings – live news Labour leadership: blaming 2019 defeat just on Brexit 'not honest', says Starmer at Guardian hustings – live news
(32 minutes later)
Rolling coverage of the day’s political developments as they happen, including the EU agreeing its negotiating mandate for the post-Brexit trade talks with the UK, and the Guardian’s Labour leadership hustings in ManchesterRolling coverage of the day’s political developments as they happen, including the EU agreeing its negotiating mandate for the post-Brexit trade talks with the UK, and the Guardian’s Labour leadership hustings in Manchester
At this stage in the Labour leadership contest there was little original for any of the candidates to say; they have all answered so many repeat questions, it’s a wonder they can still deliver their lines with relative spontaneity. But this format was different - more time for answers, a mix of personal questions and policy questions, and the chance to engage with each other - and anyone who was here, or who reads what they said, will certainly get a deeper understanding of the candidates, although not a particularly novel one.
If anyone has made the best impression during the campaign on audiences, it has been Lisa Nandy, and you could see why tonight. She may have been the most eloquent debater on stage, and the person with most passion and urgency. If the polls and CLP nominations are correct, despite being the candidate favoured by Jeremy Corbyn’s leadership, Rebecca Long-Bailey is not heading for victory. But she has still grown in stature during this contest, and comes over as a more confident and rounded figure than she did during the general election, when she sounded like little more than a leadership spokesman.
But in terms of experience, Keir Starmer has a depth that his two rivals just can’t match. He was not always the most engaging performer on the stage, but his best moments were better than his opponents’ by quite some measure. One came right at the end, when he gave a withering put-down of the “Labour won the argument at the election” claim. (See 8.07pm.) And the other came when he shot down the “most exciting thing you’ve done” question quite brilliantly. (See 7.20pm.) It wasn’t a news moment at all, and moral one-upmanship is not a strategy that you can deploy all the time. But it has worked well for him already in this contest (his decision to refuse to answer the “marks out of 10 for Jeremy Corbyn” question that scuppered Long-Bailey may be seen as an important moment in the campaign if he does win, as expected) and tonight Starmer looked like a figure who can’t be outperformed on mature seriousness. There are traits that are a lot worse in a party leader - particularly one facing Boris Johnson.
I will post a news summary soon.
Anushka finishes by asking if anyone in the audience has made up their mind on the basis of what they heard tonight. A few hands go up, but it is not clear whether these are people who have changed their mind, or just been confirmed in what they thought beforehand.Anushka finishes by asking if anyone in the audience has made up their mind on the basis of what they heard tonight. A few hands go up, but it is not clear whether these are people who have changed their mind, or just been confirmed in what they thought beforehand.
And that’s it.And that’s it.
I will post a verdict/summary shortly.I will post a verdict/summary shortly.
Q: [To Nandy] Has your campaign received funding from business figures involved in energy industries?Q: [To Nandy] Has your campaign received funding from business figures involved in energy industries?
Nandy says she is only taking money from companies that she thinks are ethical. She does not have a huge amount of money, she says. She says she has a small team, mostly “my mates and me”. She has had a donation from her mum.Nandy says she is only taking money from companies that she thinks are ethical. She does not have a huge amount of money, she says. She says she has a small team, mostly “my mates and me”. She has had a donation from her mum.
Q: Did you celebrate the anniversary of Communism?Q: Did you celebrate the anniversary of Communism?
Nandy says the Communist manifesto was written in Long-Bailey’s constituency. She says she did not celebrate its birthday. But she thinks “from each according to his abilities to each according to his needs” is the best political organising principle.Nandy says the Communist manifesto was written in Long-Bailey’s constituency. She says she did not celebrate its birthday. But she thinks “from each according to his abilities to each according to his needs” is the best political organising principle.
Long-Bailey says legend has it that the Communist manifesto was written in the Crescent pub in her Salford constituency.Long-Bailey says legend has it that the Communist manifesto was written in the Crescent pub in her Salford constituency.
Q: Do you support the UCU strike?Q: Do you support the UCU strike?
Nandy says she has been on a picket line today. She has heard some terrible stories about casualisation. She says higher education needs to be valued.Nandy says she has been on a picket line today. She has heard some terrible stories about casualisation. She says higher education needs to be valued.
Q: Labour lost the election by a landslide. But did we win the argument?Q: Labour lost the election by a landslide. But did we win the argument?
No, we lost, Starmer says. He says that has consequences.No, we lost, Starmer says. He says that has consequences.
He says Labour can do great things when it wins. It lost that election.He says Labour can do great things when it wins. It lost that election.
Nandy says Labour did not just lose the argument. It was not even making the argument, she says.Nandy says Labour did not just lose the argument. It was not even making the argument, she says.
Q: What is your view of regional government?Q: What is your view of regional government?
Starmer says devolution is a mess. He says the principle should be for decisions to be made as close to people as they can be.Starmer says devolution is a mess. He says the principle should be for decisions to be made as close to people as they can be.
He says Labour has to have a discussion about how it devolves power. It should not just be a matter of, say, devolving power to Scotland or Wales. It needs to go a lot further than that.He says Labour has to have a discussion about how it devolves power. It should not just be a matter of, say, devolving power to Scotland or Wales. It needs to go a lot further than that.
Long-Bailey says she wants to abolish the House of Lords. She would also devolve power to every region. At the election Labour talked about setting up regional offices, but it did not talk about what they would do.Long-Bailey says she wants to abolish the House of Lords. She would also devolve power to every region. At the election Labour talked about setting up regional offices, but it did not talk about what they would do.
Nandy says she is a big fan of what Andy Burnham has done as mayor for Greater Manchester. But the model is flawed, she says. Outside of election time, Burnham is only accountable to the council leaders, she says.Nandy says she is a big fan of what Andy Burnham has done as mayor for Greater Manchester. But the model is flawed, she says. Outside of election time, Burnham is only accountable to the council leaders, she says.
She also says she would abolish local enterprise partnerships (LEPs) because she thinks they have been a failure.She also says she would abolish local enterprise partnerships (LEPs) because she thinks they have been a failure.
Q: What would you do about endemic landlordism?Q: What would you do about endemic landlordism?
Starmer says affordable housing should be seen as a basic human right. He says at his advice surgery he sees every week families living in a one-bed flat.Starmer says affordable housing should be seen as a basic human right. He says at his advice surgery he sees every week families living in a one-bed flat.
For the private sector, he supports a licensing system.For the private sector, he supports a licensing system.
Long-Bailey says her parents were very proud that their chidren were able to buy their won homes. But for the next generation that won’t necessarily be possible, she says. So she says Labour has to build more council homes.Long-Bailey says her parents were very proud that their chidren were able to buy their won homes. But for the next generation that won’t necessarily be possible, she says. So she says Labour has to build more council homes.
Nandy says rent controls work, but only with a radical expansion of council housing. So Labour should build more council homes.Nandy says rent controls work, but only with a radical expansion of council housing. So Labour should build more council homes.
Q: What slogan would you have?Q: What slogan would you have?
Starmer says he does not know. Substance matters more than slogans, he says.Starmer says he does not know. Substance matters more than slogans, he says.
Long-Bailey says she talks about aspirational socialism. Her slogan would be: “You deserve the best.”Long-Bailey says she talks about aspirational socialism. Her slogan would be: “You deserve the best.”
Anushka is now taking questions from the audience.Anushka is now taking questions from the audience.
Q: What would you do to challenge the government on cuts to local authority funding?Q: What would you do to challenge the government on cuts to local authority funding?
Long-Bailey says Labour should do more to publicise what the cuts are doing.Long-Bailey says Labour should do more to publicise what the cuts are doing.
Nandy says her local council in Wigan consulted the public on how to respond to the cuts. The council would have shut libraries. But people said they wanted to keep the libraries open, and so they stayed open - with reduced hours.Nandy says her local council in Wigan consulted the public on how to respond to the cuts. The council would have shut libraries. But people said they wanted to keep the libraries open, and so they stayed open - with reduced hours.
She says this has united the community more than anything since the miners’ strike.She says this has united the community more than anything since the miners’ strike.
She says the report about health inequalities out today revealed something that should be described for what it is - “corporate manslaughter”.She says the report about health inequalities out today revealed something that should be described for what it is - “corporate manslaughter”.
Starmer says he ran a public body. It had to take 20% cuts. But councils have had cuts of 50%. He says the Tories arranged this so that councils took the blame.Starmer says he ran a public body. It had to take 20% cuts. But councils have had cuts of 50%. He says the Tories arranged this so that councils took the blame.
Q: What are your views on HS2?Q: What are your views on HS2?
Long-Bailey says HS2 should start in the north and finish in the south.Long-Bailey says HS2 should start in the north and finish in the south.
Starmer says he agrees with Long-Bailey. If HS2 just cuts journey times from Birmingham to London, it will have been a failure.Starmer says he agrees with Long-Bailey. If HS2 just cuts journey times from Birmingham to London, it will have been a failure.
Q: Labour members are significantly more liberal than the public at large? How will you win over general voters?Q: Labour members are significantly more liberal than the public at large? How will you win over general voters?
Long-Bailey says the party must speak to the whole community.Long-Bailey says the party must speak to the whole community.
Nandy says she does not accept that you have to choose between your head and your heart.Nandy says she does not accept that you have to choose between your head and your heart.
Starmer says Labour has to hold on to its voters, win back the ones it lost, and win over more.Starmer says Labour has to hold on to its voters, win back the ones it lost, and win over more.
Q: Would you back PR?Q: Would you back PR?
Starmer says he is open to PR. He does not like the way votes are wasted under first-past-the-post. But he would keep the constituency link.Starmer says he is open to PR. He does not like the way votes are wasted under first-past-the-post. But he would keep the constituency link.
And PR on its own is not the answer. He says he thinks decisions should be taken closer to where people live.And PR on its own is not the answer. He says he thinks decisions should be taken closer to where people live.
Q: Do you all drive less, or take fewer flights? Or avoid shopping on Amazon?Q: Do you all drive less, or take fewer flights? Or avoid shopping on Amazon?
Long-Bailey says she uses public transport. Once she had to go to Cornwall. It would have taken an hour to fly. But she took the six-hour train journey.Long-Bailey says she uses public transport. Once she had to go to Cornwall. It would have taken an hour to fly. But she took the six-hour train journey.
Q: How do you persuade people who like driving cars and flying abroad on holiday to accept the changes necessary to tackle climate change?Q: How do you persuade people who like driving cars and flying abroad on holiday to accept the changes necessary to tackle climate change?
Starmer says he thinks people do want change. They just did not trust Labour to do this, he says.Starmer says he thinks people do want change. They just did not trust Labour to do this, he says.
He says people want better public transport.He says people want better public transport.
Q: Would you increase fuel duty?Q: Would you increase fuel duty?
Starmer says Labour should not be afraid of the argument that, if you want transformational change, you have to pay for it.Starmer says Labour should not be afraid of the argument that, if you want transformational change, you have to pay for it.
Long-Bailey says she thinks Boris Johnson would have trouble taking on a “bolshy northern woman” like herself at PMQs.Long-Bailey says she thinks Boris Johnson would have trouble taking on a “bolshy northern woman” like herself at PMQs.
Q: [To Long-Bailey] Do you regret your response at a recent event to the person who asked about the Israeli lobby?Q: [To Long-Bailey] Do you regret your response at a recent event to the person who asked about the Israeli lobby?
That is a reference to this moment.That is a reference to this moment.
Long-Bailey says she thought, in a long answer, she had shown why the man’s claim was wrong. But she says she should have been clearer about why he was wrong to say what he did.Long-Bailey says she thought, in a long answer, she had shown why the man’s claim was wrong. But she says she should have been clearer about why he was wrong to say what he did.
Starmer says Labour has to be effective from day one. Boris Johnson is not a cuddly clown. He is dangerous, he says.Starmer says Labour has to be effective from day one. Boris Johnson is not a cuddly clown. He is dangerous, he says.
He says the leader must model unity.He says the leader must model unity.
And he says the party must demonstrate change from day one.And he says the party must demonstrate change from day one.
And this is particularly important on antisemitism, he says.And this is particularly important on antisemitism, he says.
He says the leader should have a “line of sight” on this. He should have these cases on his desk every Friday. He says he knows from running a large organisation (the CPS) that you have to act like this.He says the leader should have a “line of sight” on this. He should have these cases on his desk every Friday. He says he knows from running a large organisation (the CPS) that you have to act like this.
Long-Bailey defends her plan for open selections. She says this could help Labour to find candidates like Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez (the young, dynamic new Democratic congresswoman in the US).Long-Bailey defends her plan for open selections. She says this could help Labour to find candidates like Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez (the young, dynamic new Democratic congresswoman in the US).
Nandy says she disagrees. Labour should be getting rid of Tory MPs, not Labour ones. Under open selection, the sort of candidates who would be removed would be the female or BAME onles like Ocasio-Cortez.Nandy says she disagrees. Labour should be getting rid of Tory MPs, not Labour ones. Under open selection, the sort of candidates who would be removed would be the female or BAME onles like Ocasio-Cortez.
She also says she would make Labour less London-centric. She would move the HQ to Warrington, she says.She also says she would make Labour less London-centric. She would move the HQ to Warrington, she says.
Q: [To Starmer] Is it true that the most exciting thing you have done is take your kids to the football? (That is prompted by Starmer’s reply to a question on LBC yesterday.)Q: [To Starmer] Is it true that the most exciting thing you have done is take your kids to the football? (That is prompted by Starmer’s reply to a question on LBC yesterday.)
Starmer says he objects to questions like this. His mother-in-law died recently. He has spent time “trying to be the best husband I can” and dealing with grieving children. And then he gets asked questions like this. He goes on:Starmer says he objects to questions like this. His mother-in-law died recently. He has spent time “trying to be the best husband I can” and dealing with grieving children. And then he gets asked questions like this. He goes on:
The person who tells the world the most exciting thing they’ve done on live media hasn’t done anything really exciting.The person who tells the world the most exciting thing they’ve done on live media hasn’t done anything really exciting.
Q: You mentioned your children. If you become leader, how will you have time for family life?Q: You mentioned your children. If you become leader, how will you have time for family life?
Starmer says you have to make time. He tries to protect Friday nights, so his family all spent time together, with their devices off.Starmer says you have to make time. He tries to protect Friday nights, so his family all spent time together, with their devices off.
He says children can get great levellers. He says his recently told his daughter about going to a fund-raising dinner. When he said he was the speaker, she asked why anyone would pay money to hear him speak.He says children can get great levellers. He says his recently told his daughter about going to a fund-raising dinner. When he said he was the speaker, she asked why anyone would pay money to hear him speak.
UPDATE: Here is the full quote from Starmer’s first answer.UPDATE: Here is the full quote from Starmer’s first answer.
Q: [To Nandy] Do you regret being involved in the campaign to get rid of Jeremy Corbyn in 2016?Q: [To Nandy] Do you regret being involved in the campaign to get rid of Jeremy Corbyn in 2016?
Nandy says it was a very difficult period. The party was very divided. There was a real problem with antisemitism.Nandy says it was a very difficult period. The party was very divided. There was a real problem with antisemitism.
(Someone in the audience expressed doubts about this.)(Someone in the audience expressed doubts about this.)
Nandy says she was trying to hold things together. But the two sides seemed determined to fight it out. She went to see the Corbyn camp and urged them to settle the divisions, but she was told they had to fight it out until one side lost.Nandy says she was trying to hold things together. But the two sides seemed determined to fight it out. She went to see the Corbyn camp and urged them to settle the divisions, but she was told they had to fight it out until one side lost.
She left the shadow cabinet, but still served the party. She organised a byelection.She left the shadow cabinet, but still served the party. She organised a byelection.
But what is important is to do the right thing.But what is important is to do the right thing.
Q: [To Long-Bailey] To win, Labour will have to win back people who voted Tory. But you said your friends would not even tell you if they voted Tory. How are you going to persuade people?Q: [To Long-Bailey] To win, Labour will have to win back people who voted Tory. But you said your friends would not even tell you if they voted Tory. How are you going to persuade people?
Long-Bailey says that remark (in a BBC interview at the start of the campaign) was a joke. She says she does have a friend who votes Tory.Long-Bailey says that remark (in a BBC interview at the start of the campaign) was a joke. She says she does have a friend who votes Tory.
Q: [To Long-Bailey] Your friend Angela Rayner says Jeremy Corbyn did not command respect in the party. Do you agree?Q: [To Long-Bailey] Your friend Angela Rayner says Jeremy Corbyn did not command respect in the party. Do you agree?
Long-Bailey says she thinks Rayner was talking about the problem with disunity in the party. The party should unite, she says.Long-Bailey says she thinks Rayner was talking about the problem with disunity in the party. The party should unite, she says.
Turning back to Brexit, she says the vote for Brexit was triggered by distrust. People do not trust Brussels politicians. But they don’t trust Westminster ones either.Turning back to Brexit, she says the vote for Brexit was triggered by distrust. People do not trust Brussels politicians. But they don’t trust Westminster ones either.