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You can find the current article at its original source at http://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/live/2015/jun/24/australians-already-jailed-for-terrorism-could-have-citizenship-stripped-politics-live

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Children could lose citizenship under terrorism laws – politics live Children could lose citizenship under terrorism laws – politics live
(35 minutes later)
10.26am AEST01:26
Julie Bishop says as a matter of course, the Coalition would not support retrospectivity. Except.
As a matter of course, the Coalition would not support retrospectivity but there are certain circumstances where, for example, people convicted of terrorist offences currently serving time in prison, their circumstances should be considered on their release from prison.
10.14am AEST01:1410.14am AEST01:14
Labor yet to be briefed on citizenship lawsLabor yet to be briefed on citizenship laws
Bill Shorten has not been briefed on the citizenship laws yet. He is asked about the family of Khaled Sharrouf, who was reported killed. His wife Tara Nettleton and their children want to return to Australia. Shorten is not committing on a Labor position.Bill Shorten has not been briefed on the citizenship laws yet. He is asked about the family of Khaled Sharrouf, who was reported killed. His wife Tara Nettleton and their children want to return to Australia. Shorten is not committing on a Labor position.
I do not as a parent understand how on earth anyone, no matterhow twisted their own view, would subject their children to that sort of trauma and childabuse. Also as a parent I know that with these children to return they were going to need a lot of working through what they have seen and done. As a parent I wouldn’t feel comfortable with these children reinserting in a playground with my children or anyone else’s children. But I reckon the sins of the father should not be visit and treated as the sins of the children. We just need to work through this issue intelligently. We will take the advice of the security agencies and that is what Australians want. I do not as a parent understand how on earth anyone, no matter how twisted their own view, would subject their children to that sort of trauma and child abuse. Also as a parent I know that with these children to return they were going to need a lot of working through what they have seen and done. As a parent I wouldn’t feel comfortable with these children reinserting in a playground with my children or anyone else’s children. But I reckon the sins of the father should not be visit and treated as the sins of the children. We just need to work through this issue intelligently. We will take the advice of the security agencies and that is what Australians want.
Updated at 10.33am AEST
10.10am AEST01:1010.10am AEST01:10
Under the current Australian Citizenship Act, a minister can revoke the citizenship of a child if their parents’ citizenship is revoked, unless there is another responsible parent who is an Australian citizen. Under the current Australian Citizenship Act, a minister can revoke the citizenship of a child if their parents’ citizenship is revoked. Exceptions include if there is another responsible parent who is an Australian citizen or if the child is left stateless.
The current act is here.The current act is here.
Updated at 10.18am AEST Updated at 10.31am AEST
10.02am AEST01:0210.02am AEST01:02
PDuddy and his learned friend the Bull, perusing the bill dutifully.PDuddy and his learned friend the Bull, perusing the bill dutifully.
Updated at 10.17am AEST Updated at 10.33am AEST
10.00am AEST01:0010.00am AEST01:00
Parallel universii Parallel universe
Just by way of contrast, Philip Ruddock, the special minister for citizenship discussion, is presenting the parliamentary joint committee on human rights to the parliament.Just by way of contrast, Philip Ruddock, the special minister for citizenship discussion, is presenting the parliamentary joint committee on human rights to the parliament.
Updated at 10.17am AEST Updated at 10.34am AEST
9.54am AEST00:549.54am AEST00:54
Natural justice? Need not applyNatural justice? Need not apply
The legislation contains some general notes about the minister’s powers overseeing the “renunciation” of citizenship, which for the wonks is section 33AA.The legislation contains some general notes about the minister’s powers overseeing the “renunciation” of citizenship, which for the wonks is section 33AA.
It states that the minister holds the powers personally – in other words, back off courts.It states that the minister holds the powers personally – in other words, back off courts.
And it states:And it states:
The rules of natural justice do not apply in relation to the powers of the minister under this section.The rules of natural justice do not apply in relation to the powers of the minister under this section.
Updated at 10.17am AESTUpdated at 10.17am AEST
9.41am AEST00:419.41am AEST00:41
A child can lose their citizenship under the new lawsA child can lose their citizenship under the new laws
This is directly from the legislation:This is directly from the legislation:
Where a person renounces their Australian citizenship under this section, the renunciation takes effect, and the Australian citizenship of the person ceases, immediately upon the person engaging in the conduct referred to in subsection (2).Where a person renounces their Australian citizenship under this section, the renunciation takes effect, and the Australian citizenship of the person ceases, immediately upon the person engaging in the conduct referred to in subsection (2).
Note: A child of the person may also cease to be an Australian citizen.Note: A child of the person may also cease to be an Australian citizen.
9.34am AEST00:349.34am AEST00:34
While we trawl through the bill, this from National MP Darren Chester, bless him.While we trawl through the bill, this from National MP Darren Chester, bless him.
First in class! Important to grab your seat early when they're taking a photo of the cabinet team @cpyne #auspol pic.twitter.com/FRYAY0pDDfFirst in class! Important to grab your seat early when they're taking a photo of the cabinet team @cpyne #auspol pic.twitter.com/FRYAY0pDDf
9.33am AEST00:339.33am AEST00:33
No notice required for loss of citizenshipNo notice required for loss of citizenship
The bill also limits sections of the Australian Security and Intelligence Organisation Act for the new provisions.The bill also limits sections of the Australian Security and Intelligence Organisation Act for the new provisions.
These sections relate to giving notice of a loss of citizenship or rescinding a notice and exempting a person from loss.These sections relate to giving notice of a loss of citizenship or rescinding a notice and exempting a person from loss.
Dutton:Dutton:
This means that the minister may rely on any information provided by Asio, whether it is in a preliminary form or information or whether it amounts to a security assessment or qualified security assessment.This means that the minister may rely on any information provided by Asio, whether it is in a preliminary form or information or whether it amounts to a security assessment or qualified security assessment.
Updated at 10.16am AESTUpdated at 10.16am AEST
9.26am AEST00:269.26am AEST00:26
Australian citizens by birth can lose citizenship under new lawsAustralian citizens by birth can lose citizenship under new laws
Immigration minister Dutton introduces the allegiance to Austrailia bill @gabriellechan @GuardianAus #politicslive pic.twitter.com/s8gOIRchNmImmigration minister Dutton introduces the allegiance to Austrailia bill @gabriellechan @GuardianAus #politicslive pic.twitter.com/s8gOIRchNm
The bill makes it clear that the new loss provisions apply to all Australian citizens, regardless of how they acquired that citizenship ... Legislation has long provided that Australian citizens by birth can lose their citizenship.The bill makes it clear that the new loss provisions apply to all Australian citizens, regardless of how they acquired that citizenship ... Legislation has long provided that Australian citizens by birth can lose their citizenship.
Updated at 10.16am AESTUpdated at 10.16am AEST
9.22am AEST00:229.22am AEST00:22
Here is the minister’s formulation regarding a declared terrorist organisation:Here is the minister’s formulation regarding a declared terrorist organisation:
A declared terrorist organisation will be a subset of those which are proscribed for the purposes of the criminal code. The minister will declare those organisations that are opposed to Australia or Australia’s values, democratic beliefs, rights and liberties.A declared terrorist organisation will be a subset of those which are proscribed for the purposes of the criminal code. The minister will declare those organisations that are opposed to Australia or Australia’s values, democratic beliefs, rights and liberties.
9.18am AEST00:189.18am AEST00:18
OK citizen journalists, here is the link to the Allegiance to Australia bill.OK citizen journalists, here is the link to the Allegiance to Australia bill.
9.16am AEST00:169.16am AEST00:16
Peter Dutton says the loss of citizenship will be immediate, upon the person engaging in the relevant conduct.Peter Dutton says the loss of citizenship will be immediate, upon the person engaging in the relevant conduct.
The minister must give notice that a person has ceased to be an Australian citizen once the minister becomes aware of the person’s conduct, giving rise to that outcome.The minister must give notice that a person has ceased to be an Australian citizen once the minister becomes aware of the person’s conduct, giving rise to that outcome.
9.10am AEST00:109.10am AEST00:10
The definitions which will cause citizenship renunciationThe definitions which will cause citizenship renunciation
Here’s the definitions for actions which will cause citizenship renunciation, via Peter Dutton.Here’s the definitions for actions which will cause citizenship renunciation, via Peter Dutton.
The relevant conduct is engaging in international terrorist activities using explosive or lethal devices, engaging in a terrorist act, providing or receiving training connected with preparation for, engagement in or assistance in a terrorist act.The relevant conduct is engaging in international terrorist activities using explosive or lethal devices, engaging in a terrorist act, providing or receiving training connected with preparation for, engagement in or assistance in a terrorist act.
Directing the activities of a terrorist organisation, recruiting for a terrorist organisation, financing terrorism, financing a terrorist, and engaging in foreign incursions and recruitment. Automatic loss of citizenship will be triggered whether the conduct takes place inside or outside Australia.Directing the activities of a terrorist organisation, recruiting for a terrorist organisation, financing terrorism, financing a terrorist, and engaging in foreign incursions and recruitment. Automatic loss of citizenship will be triggered whether the conduct takes place inside or outside Australia.
(Bear with me, there is a lot of detail and I need to get it right.)(Bear with me, there is a lot of detail and I need to get it right.)
Updated at 9.11am AESTUpdated at 9.11am AEST
9.08am AEST00:089.08am AEST00:08
Dutton:Dutton:
The bill proposes three mechanisms for automatic loss of citizenship.The bill proposes three mechanisms for automatic loss of citizenship.
First, a new provision where a person renounces their citizenship if they act inconsistently with their allegiance to Australia by engaging in certain terrorist conduct.First, a new provision where a person renounces their citizenship if they act inconsistently with their allegiance to Australia by engaging in certain terrorist conduct.
Second, an extension of the provision for a person fighting in the armed forces of another country against Australia. In that situation a person ceases to be an Australian citizen if they fight for or are in the services of a specified terrorist organisation overseas.Second, an extension of the provision for a person fighting in the armed forces of another country against Australia. In that situation a person ceases to be an Australian citizen if they fight for or are in the services of a specified terrorist organisation overseas.
Third, a new loss of citizenship provision if the person has been convicted of a specified terrorism offence by an Australian court.Third, a new loss of citizenship provision if the person has been convicted of a specified terrorism offence by an Australian court.
Updated at 10.14am AESTUpdated at 10.14am AEST
9.05am AEST00:059.05am AEST00:05
Peter Dutton is delivering a second reading speech, with Malcolm Turnbull sitting behind him.Peter Dutton is delivering a second reading speech, with Malcolm Turnbull sitting behind him.
[Citizenship] is a common bond that unites us all, whether we were born here or chose to make Australia our home. Citizenship shows a commitment to this country, its people and its democratic rights an privileges. Australian citizenship should not be taken lightly.[Citizenship] is a common bond that unites us all, whether we were born here or chose to make Australia our home. Citizenship shows a commitment to this country, its people and its democratic rights an privileges. Australian citizenship should not be taken lightly.
9.02am AEST00:029.02am AEST00:02
Citizenship bill in da house.Citizenship bill in da house.
Speaker Bishop is in the chair.Speaker Bishop is in the chair.
Here comes the bill.Here comes the bill.
The Australian citizenship amendment (allegiance to Australia) bill 2015 is in the house.The Australian citizenship amendment (allegiance to Australia) bill 2015 is in the house.
Updated at 10.14am AESTUpdated at 10.14am AEST
9.00am AEST00:009.00am AEST00:00
Twitter friend and wag:Twitter friend and wag:
@gabriellechan we need to know. These Pro Bono lawyers which side are the on? Also why r they such fans of U2 anyway?@gabriellechan we need to know. These Pro Bono lawyers which side are the on? Also why r they such fans of U2 anyway?
8.58am AEST23:588.58am AEST23:58
From our colleague down at Sky, the Daily Tele’s spread on Q&A.From our colleague down at Sky, the Daily Tele’s spread on Q&A.
Is this a real qanda panel? pic.twitter.com/EbvNgWMXKzIs this a real qanda panel? pic.twitter.com/EbvNgWMXKz
8.51am AEST23:518.51am AEST23:51
PM: Plenty of pro-bono lawyers will rush to help the first person affected by lawsPM: Plenty of pro-bono lawyers will rush to help the first person affected by laws
Tony Abbott does not seem to be worried about anyone inadvertently getting caught up by national security laws.Tony Abbott does not seem to be worried about anyone inadvertently getting caught up by national security laws.
I am sure there will be all sorts of pro-bono lawyers who will be rushing to help the first person for whom this takes place but the fact is if you’re a terrorist, you’ve left our country to fight with a movement that regards our way of life as in some way satanic, it is saying to us, submit or die, which hates our freedom, which hates our tolerance, which hates the welcome that we give to minorities, which hates everything about the way we live, frankly why should we consider you to be one of us?I am sure there will be all sorts of pro-bono lawyers who will be rushing to help the first person for whom this takes place but the fact is if you’re a terrorist, you’ve left our country to fight with a movement that regards our way of life as in some way satanic, it is saying to us, submit or die, which hates our freedom, which hates our tolerance, which hates the welcome that we give to minorities, which hates everything about the way we live, frankly why should we consider you to be one of us?
Updated at 8.52am AESTUpdated at 8.52am AEST
8.38am AEST23:388.38am AEST23:38
Tony Abbott: All too often the ABC seems to be on everyone's side but Australia'sTony Abbott: All too often the ABC seems to be on everyone's side but Australia's
The citizenship legislation will be introduced to the parliament at 9am.The citizenship legislation will be introduced to the parliament at 9am.
Meantime, here is Tony Abbott, who was speaking to Sunrise this morning.Meantime, here is Tony Abbott, who was speaking to Sunrise this morning.
Our supposed national broadcaster is giving a platform to someone who hates us, hates our way of life, supports the terrorists that would do us harm and again I say, the issue for the ABC, our national broadcaster, is whose side are you on because all too often the ABC seems to be on everyone’s side but Australia’s.Our supposed national broadcaster is giving a platform to someone who hates us, hates our way of life, supports the terrorists that would do us harm and again I say, the issue for the ABC, our national broadcaster, is whose side are you on because all too often the ABC seems to be on everyone’s side but Australia’s.
8.34am AEST23:348.34am AEST23:34
Daniel HurstDaniel Hurst
The GST is back on the agenda. Here is Daniel Hurst’s report:The GST is back on the agenda. Here is Daniel Hurst’s report:
The Abbott government has reignited debate about the carve-up of the goods and services tax after releasing a reform blueprint that includes the option of tying allocations to the population of states and territories.The Abbott government has reignited debate about the carve-up of the goods and services tax after releasing a reform blueprint that includes the option of tying allocations to the population of states and territories.
Another option is a new “floor” to ensure that no state or territory’s allocation fell below a set level – an issue Western Australia has complained about given its share is set to fall below 30 cents for every dollar it contributes next financial year.Another option is a new “floor” to ensure that no state or territory’s allocation fell below a set level – an issue Western Australia has complained about given its share is set to fall below 30 cents for every dollar it contributes next financial year.
The ideas are outlined in a new discussion paper on federation reform (pdf), which also floats a federal takeover of state responsibilities for universities and the potential for the states to take charge of all homelessness services..The ideas are outlined in a new discussion paper on federation reform (pdf), which also floats a federal takeover of state responsibilities for universities and the potential for the states to take charge of all homelessness services..
The paper presents three options:The paper presents three options:
The third is the most radical option for change to the GST carve-up. The paper says it would require the unanimous support of the states and territories to move to a simple per-capita formula.The third is the most radical option for change to the GST carve-up. The paper says it would require the unanimous support of the states and territories to move to a simple per-capita formula.
Updated at 10.15am AESTUpdated at 10.15am AEST
8.26am AEST23:268.26am AEST23:26
Renewable energy target hair cut: is it a mullet?Renewable energy target hair cut: is it a mullet?
The renewable energy target has been cut from 41,000 gigawatt hours to 33,000 gigawatt hours. The Greens and Labor tried to exclude wood waste from the RET to no avail as the government got the support of the Senate crossbenchers by appointing a windfarm commissioner. Lenore Taylor broke that story last week.The renewable energy target has been cut from 41,000 gigawatt hours to 33,000 gigawatt hours. The Greens and Labor tried to exclude wood waste from the RET to no avail as the government got the support of the Senate crossbenchers by appointing a windfarm commissioner. Lenore Taylor broke that story last week.
Industry groups welcomed the slashing of the RET, with Kate Carnell, chief executive of the Australian Chamber of Commerce and Industry, describing the new target as an:Industry groups welcomed the slashing of the RET, with Kate Carnell, chief executive of the Australian Chamber of Commerce and Industry, describing the new target as an:
enormous relief to energy users … The reduction of the target from 41,000 gigawatt hours is a sensible reform that acknowledges the changed circumstances of lower overall demand for energy than originally anticipated.enormous relief to energy users … The reduction of the target from 41,000 gigawatt hours is a sensible reform that acknowledges the changed circumstances of lower overall demand for energy than originally anticipated.
I will bring you more reaction through the morning on whether the new RET target haircut represents a trim or a mullet.I will bring you more reaction through the morning on whether the new RET target haircut represents a trim or a mullet.
Updated at 10.12am AESTUpdated at 10.12am AEST
8.10am AEST23:108.10am AEST23:10
The ABC is in deep doodoo again. As anticipated, the warriors are out. From the highest office in the land to a wide range of media commentators, swords have been drawn to hang, draw and quarter the national broadcaster for treason.The ABC is in deep doodoo again. As anticipated, the warriors are out. From the highest office in the land to a wide range of media commentators, swords have been drawn to hang, draw and quarter the national broadcaster for treason.
This sort of thing really helps, though I’m not sure the advertiser at the bottom would be pleased.This sort of thing really helps, though I’m not sure the advertiser at the bottom would be pleased.
The front page of tomorrow's Courier-Mail. pic.twitter.com/2kRB0YcRlTThe front page of tomorrow's Courier-Mail. pic.twitter.com/2kRB0YcRlT
Peter Dutton has his metaphorical night stick out and giving the ABC a whack.Peter Dutton has his metaphorical night stick out and giving the ABC a whack.
I think people want to see a balanced Q&A, because as I say, it has been a good format, but in recent month it is has lost the plot ... They do have serious questions to answer and that’s the idea of this independent process because people need to have confidence restored into the public broadcaster because there are lots of people across the community that shouldn’t be ignored, that do have significant concerns about the composition of the audience, about now the safety aspect of going into that audience or as a panel member.I think people want to see a balanced Q&A, because as I say, it has been a good format, but in recent month it is has lost the plot ... They do have serious questions to answer and that’s the idea of this independent process because people need to have confidence restored into the public broadcaster because there are lots of people across the community that shouldn’t be ignored, that do have significant concerns about the composition of the audience, about now the safety aspect of going into that audience or as a panel member.
Updated at 10.11am AESTUpdated at 10.11am AEST
7.54am AEST22:547.54am AEST22:54
Good morning citizens,Good morning citizens,
Hang on to your citizenship tightly this morn. The immigration minister, Peter Dutton, has been staring down at me from every television in the joint, explaining the new laws to strip citizenship, which we have yet to sight.Hang on to your citizenship tightly this morn. The immigration minister, Peter Dutton, has been staring down at me from every television in the joint, explaining the new laws to strip citizenship, which we have yet to sight.
The legislation is expected first thing this morning so it will be refreshing to have facts in front of us.The legislation is expected first thing this morning so it will be refreshing to have facts in front of us.
Dutton has told various outlets that if a dual national “serves or fights” in the name of a proscribed terrorist organisation, “by their very act” they renounce their citizenship.Dutton has told various outlets that if a dual national “serves or fights” in the name of a proscribed terrorist organisation, “by their very act” they renounce their citizenship.
Evidence for that action will be provided from intelligence agencies to the minister, who will “notify” the person. On receiving the notification, the (former) dual national may then challenge the circumstances in a court.Evidence for that action will be provided from intelligence agencies to the minister, who will “notify” the person. On receiving the notification, the (former) dual national may then challenge the circumstances in a court.
The change from the previous “ministerial discretion” option is that rather than the minister cancelling the citizenship on agency intelligence, the citizenship is stripped “automatically” by their conduct.The change from the previous “ministerial discretion” option is that rather than the minister cancelling the citizenship on agency intelligence, the citizenship is stripped “automatically” by their conduct.
Dutton says the “person themselves make the decision” and “renunciation takes place at the time of the conduct”.Dutton says the “person themselves make the decision” and “renunciation takes place at the time of the conduct”.
While I am nothing more than a bush lawyer, which is no lawyer at all, the automatic button seems troublesome.While I am nothing more than a bush lawyer, which is no lawyer at all, the automatic button seems troublesome.
It may be all well and good if the person declares they have been fighting with Isis or other orgs but I still come back to the fact that proving the conduct for someone who does not self-declare surely is still an issue.It may be all well and good if the person declares they have been fighting with Isis or other orgs but I still come back to the fact that proving the conduct for someone who does not self-declare surely is still an issue.
The other interesting development which Dutton has expanded on this morning is the fact that Australians who are dual nationals and now in jail for terrorism-related offences could have their citizenship stripped under the laws.The other interesting development which Dutton has expanded on this morning is the fact that Australians who are dual nationals and now in jail for terrorism-related offences could have their citizenship stripped under the laws.
The legislation presented this morning will not be retrospective but after it is introduced, it will go straight to the parliamentary joint committee on security and intelligence, which will be asked to look at whether the law should be retrospective.The legislation presented this morning will not be retrospective but after it is introduced, it will go straight to the parliamentary joint committee on security and intelligence, which will be asked to look at whether the law should be retrospective.
PDutton says there are now 23 Australians in jail for terrorism related offences and about half are dual nationals.PDutton says there are now 23 Australians in jail for terrorism related offences and about half are dual nationals.
There is a question about whether or not there should be some applicability to the 23 or those who are serving jail sentences now and that’s an issue for the committee which is a joint committee between Liberal and Labor to have a look at that question, but we don’t propose retrospectivity in its current form.There is a question about whether or not there should be some applicability to the 23 or those who are serving jail sentences now and that’s an issue for the committee which is a joint committee between Liberal and Labor to have a look at that question, but we don’t propose retrospectivity in its current form.
The other thing that happened while we were having a life was the passage of the renewable energy target through the Senate. You now have a windfarm commissioner, who will be paid for out of “existing savings” in the environment department, so kick back and relax.The other thing that happened while we were having a life was the passage of the renewable energy target through the Senate. You now have a windfarm commissioner, who will be paid for out of “existing savings” in the environment department, so kick back and relax.
Jump into the conversation below, or on the Twits @gabriellechan and @mpbowers.Jump into the conversation below, or on the Twits @gabriellechan and @mpbowers.
Second-last sitting day of parliament before the winter break. Giddy up.Second-last sitting day of parliament before the winter break. Giddy up.
Updated at 10.09am AESTUpdated at 10.09am AEST