This article is from the source 'guardian' and was first published or seen on . It last changed over 40 days ago and won't be checked again for changes.
You can find the current article at its original source at http://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/live/2015/aug/12/tony-abbott-says-same-sex-marriage-bill-may-not-come-to-a-vote-politics-live
The article has changed 21 times. There is an RSS feed of changes available.
| Version 1 | Version 2 |
|---|---|
| Tony Abbott says same-sex marriage bill may not come to a vote – politics live | Tony Abbott says same-sex marriage bill may not come to a vote – politics live |
| (35 minutes later) | |
| 9.34am AEST00:34 | |
| The Labor leader Bill Shorten is at an event at the Australian National University with his climate spokesman, Mark Butler. | |
| Bill Shorten: | |
| The Liberals are lunching from crisis to crisis, not dealing with the issues that a modern Australia thinks are important. They have no plan for jobs, no plan for renewable energy. It is time that Mr Abbott and the Liberals started to be a good government instead of the crisis-ridden circus that we have seen in the last 24 hours. | |
| 9.26am AEST00:26 | |
| Entsch to Abbott: plebiscite with the next election | |
| Daniel Hurst | |
| Liberal MP Warren Entsch, has called on Tony Abbott to allow a public vote on same-sex marriage to occur at the same time as the next election, despite the prime minister’s suggestion that such a plebiscite would not occur until some time in the next parliamentary term. | |
| Entsch met with Abbott on Wednesday morning and told him he still planned to introduce his private member’s bill to allow same-sex marriage to parliament next week, undeterred by the Coalition’s decision during six hours of talks on Tuesday not to grant MPs a free vote. | |
| The prime minister signalled on Wednesday that the cross-party legislation may not even come to a vote on the floor of parliament, given that private members’ bills routinely lapse. | |
| Abbott conceded after the lengthy party room meeting that this was the last term when the Coalition could bind its MPs and senators to oppose same-sex marriage, and that it would formulate a policy ahead of the next election that could include a plebiscite or referendum. | |
| Entsch said he had asked to be involved in the policy development process and would like the public vote to occur at the same time as the next election, which is due in 2016. | |
| Entsch: | |
| I think we need to do it as quickly as possible and not have it drag on. These sorts of issues have a tendency to be very emotive and whilst you see the best of both sides you also see the worst and the longer you let it go the more you’re going to seee that type of attack from boths sides. So let’s move, short and sharp, and let’s have it dealt with. We drag it on, it just festers there ... let’s move quickly, let’s do it, let’s make the decision and whoever wins the next election will be bound by it. | |
| Entsch said having the vote at the same time as the next election would also “save us a lot of money” and ensure everyone was voting. | |
| People are going to have to vote one way or the other ... otherwise we end up with a situation where you have those that say no in Australia somehow demeaning the Irish vote running around with percentages saying as to how many actually voted, somehow suggesting it was a lesser outcome than it was,” he said. “If it’s tacked onto a national vote that means everyone is voting. | |
| Abbott has set out a longer timeframe, suggesting the plebiscite could occur some time after the next election during the subsequent three-year term. “There is the prospect of change in the next term of parliament if that is the will of the Australian people,” he told the ABC. | |
| 9.23am AEST00:23 | |
| I’ve already noted that it was odd of the prime minister to suggest (during his radio interview this morning) the coal industry won’t go backwards under policies that are designed specifically to constrain carbon emissions. The argument is counter-intuitive. | |
| Lenore Taylor has been chasing the materials underpinning the government’s new emissions targets for several days, and this morning has a scoop drawn from yet-to-be-released modelling on the impact of the targets. | |
| Her insight makes Abbott’s observation even more odd. | |
| Coal will be hit hardest by the Abbott government’s new greenhouse gas targets and global climate action – with a 14% cut in the value of coal production in 2030 due to the new Australian target and an 8% cut due to the policies of other countries. | |
| The forecasts for the sector that Tony Abbott has insisted is “good for humanity”and has “a big future as well as a big past” are contained in yet-to-be-released modelling provided to the government as it made the decision to promise that Australia would reduce emissions by between 26% and 28% of 2005 levels by 2030. | |
| Go. Figure. | |
| 9.13am AEST00:13 | |
| From ABC24. Liberal senator Cory Bernardi on tricky tactics in yesterday’s party room meeting. | |
| Q: Did you and your conservative colleagues organise to bring this issue of same sex marriage to a head yesterday during the party room meeting? | |
| Cory Bernardi: | |
| It was initially raised by Warren Entsch, an advocate for change, who said he wanted to have a discussion on the free vote. You can either allow them to drag on and [keep] haemorrhaging, it starts and lasts a long time. Or you can deal with them and cauterise whatever open wound is there. | |
| Updated at 9.29am AEST | |
| 9.07am AEST00:07 | |
| A couple of must reads about the past twelve hours or so. | |
| Phil Coorey and Laura Tingle in The Australian Financial Review. Dolce & Gabbana didn’t get married so why should anyone else? | |
| There were bitter fights between minsters. Eric Abetz and Michaelia Cash said ministers who supported gay marriage should resign their positions. Senator Abetz contended that gay men didn’t really want to get married and pointed out that Italian fashion designers Dolce & Gabbana never wed. | |
| Malcolm Turnbull, whose leadership was destroyed in 2009 when Tony Abbott and others resigned on him to protest his support for a carbon price, lashed back, saying it was “a good idea to keep the team together” given the Coalition’s poor standing in the polls. | |
| Mr Turnbull said cabinet should have discussed the issue first while Assistant Treasurer Josh Frydenberg said the refusal to change policy to a conscience vote flew in the face of the spirit of the party’s founder, Robert Menzies. | |
| Lenore Taylor, reflecting on the wash-up. | |
| Even when he wins, he also loses. Same-sex marriage would have been a difficult issue for any Coalition prime minister, but Tony Abbott played it more like a factional warrior than a leader. | |
| After six hours of debate his preferred position won the night, but he didn’t resolve the issue, because he is on the wrong side of public opinion on this (a Crosby Textor poll showed 72% support) and, looking at global trends, the wrong side of history. | |
| The government is veering towards chaotic process and open insurrection, with angry confusion and divisions in the cabinet and the leadership group about strategy and direction. The prime minister’s judgment and authority is, once again, under question. | |
| 8.56am AEST23:56 | 8.56am AEST23:56 |
| Tiny Tony Tapes | Tiny Tony Tapes |
| The prime minister harking back to his student days this morning in the AM interview has prompted Kate Doak, a long time contributor to my various live blog projects, to remind me about the wonderful Tiny Tony Tapes that hit the public domain courtesy of Kate while I was still at Fairfax Media. | The prime minister harking back to his student days this morning in the AM interview has prompted Kate Doak, a long time contributor to my various live blog projects, to remind me about the wonderful Tiny Tony Tapes that hit the public domain courtesy of Kate while I was still at Fairfax Media. |
| This recording is of an interview Abbott did in 1979 with the University of New England when he was president of the Sydney University SRC. | This recording is of an interview Abbott did in 1979 with the University of New England when he was president of the Sydney University SRC. |
| At about the eight minute mark, just after a reflection about whether the study of punk rock is a Marxist activity, Abbott is asked about representation for minority groups on campus. | At about the eight minute mark, just after a reflection about whether the study of punk rock is a Marxist activity, Abbott is asked about representation for minority groups on campus. |
| The future prime minister of Australia tells his host that minorities don’t need special representation. | The future prime minister of Australia tells his host that minorities don’t need special representation. |
| Young Tony: | Young Tony: |
| I’m very wary, I find it a little alarming, that people today tend to think of themselves not as members of the community but as women, blacks, migrants, homosexuals or whatever. | I’m very wary, I find it a little alarming, that people today tend to think of themselves not as members of the community but as women, blacks, migrants, homosexuals or whatever. |
| Abbott says if the community is represented then so are minority groups. | Abbott says if the community is represented then so are minority groups. |
| The whole conversation is a gem. Do have a listen if your day permits. | The whole conversation is a gem. Do have a listen if your day permits. |
| Thanks muchly to Kate. | Thanks muchly to Kate. |
| 8.29am AEST23:29 | 8.29am AEST23:29 |
| Shalailah Medhora | Shalailah Medhora |
| Brisk business in the corridor – we’ve had the prime minister, the treasurer Joe Hockey and Labor’s senate leader Penny Wong hitting the airwaves in the last hour. | Brisk business in the corridor – we’ve had the prime minister, the treasurer Joe Hockey and Labor’s senate leader Penny Wong hitting the airwaves in the last hour. |
| Wong told Radio National the battle was not done and dusted. | Wong told Radio National the battle was not done and dusted. |
| “I suspect the Senate is where some Liberals are going to have to decide if they have the courage to show their convictions. What we saw yesterday was an exercise in raw power by a man who is prepared to do anything, including dividing his cabinet to get his own way,” she said of prime minister Tony Abbott, who she described as “yesterday’s man”. | “I suspect the Senate is where some Liberals are going to have to decide if they have the courage to show their convictions. What we saw yesterday was an exercise in raw power by a man who is prepared to do anything, including dividing his cabinet to get his own way,” she said of prime minister Tony Abbott, who she described as “yesterday’s man”. |
| Wong said that divisions within the Coalition would continue to fester. “There will be moves, because so many people in this parliament think its time. I think the majority of Australians think its time.” She thought that the issue should be settled via legislation. “This is the job for parliament,” she said. “A plebiscite is simply the parliament refusing to do its job. There will be a vote on this - it’s the next election.” | Wong said that divisions within the Coalition would continue to fester. “There will be moves, because so many people in this parliament think its time. I think the majority of Australians think its time.” She thought that the issue should be settled via legislation. “This is the job for parliament,” she said. “A plebiscite is simply the parliament refusing to do its job. There will be a vote on this - it’s the next election.” |
| 8.24am AEST23:24 | 8.24am AEST23:24 |
| The back half of the AM interview was concerned with the government’s other big policy issue from Tuesday – new emissions reductions targets post 2020 – and with the government’s political fortunes more generally. | The back half of the AM interview was concerned with the government’s other big policy issue from Tuesday – new emissions reductions targets post 2020 – and with the government’s political fortunes more generally. |
| Abbott was asked about the polls. Polls go up and polls go down, the prime minister said. Isn’t your problem the polls haven’t gone up for fifteen months, Brissenden inquired? Abbott said he was confident the government was doing exactly what it was elected to do. | Abbott was asked about the polls. Polls go up and polls go down, the prime minister said. Isn’t your problem the polls haven’t gone up for fifteen months, Brissenden inquired? Abbott said he was confident the government was doing exactly what it was elected to do. |
| Sure there’s a lot of political static. The intensity of politics seems to be increasing all the time. | Sure there’s a lot of political static. The intensity of politics seems to be increasing all the time. |
| But Abbott says if you want competence and stability, stick with the Coalition. | But Abbott says if you want competence and stability, stick with the Coalition. |
| He defended the post-2020 target as responsible and achievable – a target that won’t clobber jobs and growth. | He defended the post-2020 target as responsible and achievable – a target that won’t clobber jobs and growth. |
| Abbott told his host constraining emissions won’t hurt the coal industry (which seems a contradiction in basic logic). | Abbott told his host constraining emissions won’t hurt the coal industry (which seems a contradiction in basic logic). |
| We are not expecting a reduction in the coal industry. Some mines will close and others will open. | We are not expecting a reduction in the coal industry. Some mines will close and others will open. |
| Abbott reasons that expanding Australia’s coal industry helps developing countries reduce their emissions intensity because our coal is better than theirs. | Abbott reasons that expanding Australia’s coal industry helps developing countries reduce their emissions intensity because our coal is better than theirs. |
| Renewables? Jobs of the future? | Renewables? Jobs of the future? |
| Well Michael they are highly subsidised jobs. Without the subsidy we wouldn’t have renewables on anything like the scale we do. | Well Michael they are highly subsidised jobs. Without the subsidy we wouldn’t have renewables on anything like the scale we do. |
| (What have renewables done for anyone lately?) | (What have renewables done for anyone lately?) |
| 7.58am AEST22:58 | 7.58am AEST22:58 |
| Good morning good people | Good morning good people |
| Good morning blogans, bloganistas, and welcome to the morning after the night before. Last night the Coalition met for six hours to thrash out its position on same-sex marriage and resolved to preserve the status quo, with fine print. | Good morning blogans, bloganistas, and welcome to the morning after the night before. Last night the Coalition met for six hours to thrash out its position on same-sex marriage and resolved to preserve the status quo, with fine print. |
| The prime minister told reporters about 10pm last night the Coalition would defend heterosexual marriage for this term of parliament but the government may take a reform position to the voters at the next election which might be either a conscience vote, a plebiscite or a constitutional referendum. This is known in the trade of speaking out both sides of your mouth. Here you are voters: take our same-sex marriage smorgasbord. | The prime minister told reporters about 10pm last night the Coalition would defend heterosexual marriage for this term of parliament but the government may take a reform position to the voters at the next election which might be either a conscience vote, a plebiscite or a constitutional referendum. This is known in the trade of speaking out both sides of your mouth. Here you are voters: take our same-sex marriage smorgasbord. |
| This morning, the prime minister has presented himself to the ABC bright and early to explain the smorgasbord to Australia’s commuters. In so doing Abbott has told his host Michael Brissenden the cross-party same-sex marriage bill, which is on its way to federal parliament next week, may not come to a vote. | This morning, the prime minister has presented himself to the ABC bright and early to explain the smorgasbord to Australia’s commuters. In so doing Abbott has told his host Michael Brissenden the cross-party same-sex marriage bill, which is on its way to federal parliament next week, may not come to a vote. |
| Tony Abbott: | Tony Abbott: |
| Let’s see where things go. We don’t actually know what the bill provides at this point. | Let’s see where things go. We don’t actually know what the bill provides at this point. |
| He’s indicated in the event the bill hits the house and manages to come to a vote, that backbenchers are entitled to exercise their personal views. | He’s indicated in the event the bill hits the house and manages to come to a vote, that backbenchers are entitled to exercise their personal views. |
| There’s a but though. | There’s a but though. |
| I would be disappointed if they went against the party position. | I would be disappointed if they went against the party position. |
| Abbott told listeners it is reasonable to wait a bit longer to legalise same-sex marriage given that it’s really only this generation that has ever thought of this. He says when he was at university, the idea of gay people wanting something as bourgeois as marriage would have been laughable. | Abbott told listeners it is reasonable to wait a bit longer to legalise same-sex marriage given that it’s really only this generation that has ever thought of this. He says when he was at university, the idea of gay people wanting something as bourgeois as marriage would have been laughable. |
| Brissenden presented the prime minister with polling that suggests a clear majority of voters support marriage equality. Yes, sure, the prime minister said, but legalising same-sex marriage is subject on which many people have very deep feelings. Abbott said he was respecting those deep feelings. | Brissenden presented the prime minister with polling that suggests a clear majority of voters support marriage equality. Yes, sure, the prime minister said, but legalising same-sex marriage is subject on which many people have very deep feelings. Abbott said he was respecting those deep feelings. |
| Well the prime minister is certainly resolved to respect some deep feelings in the debate, and frustrate the deep feelings that don’t conform with his deep feelings. | Well the prime minister is certainly resolved to respect some deep feelings in the debate, and frustrate the deep feelings that don’t conform with his deep feelings. |
| That’s actually the truth of the matter and it’s the danger for Abbott in this. I don’t think same-sex marriage will define the outcome of the next federal election, but Abbott’s ambivalence about the future and his discomfort with contemporary community attitudes can easily reinforce a feeling that this prime minister governs for a tetchy minority of special interests that reflect his world views, not for the political centre. | That’s actually the truth of the matter and it’s the danger for Abbott in this. I don’t think same-sex marriage will define the outcome of the next federal election, but Abbott’s ambivalence about the future and his discomfort with contemporary community attitudes can easily reinforce a feeling that this prime minister governs for a tetchy minority of special interests that reflect his world views, not for the political centre. |
| That’s his vulnerability here. | That’s his vulnerability here. |
| Quite a lot more in that interview. I’ll get to that in the next few posts but first let’s get cracking with our olitics live conversation. The thread is open for your business. You can also reach Mikearoo and I on the twits @murpharoo and @mpbowers | Quite a lot more in that interview. I’ll get to that in the next few posts but first let’s get cracking with our olitics live conversation. The thread is open for your business. You can also reach Mikearoo and I on the twits @murpharoo and @mpbowers |
| Buckle up. Here comes Wednesday. | Buckle up. Here comes Wednesday. |
| Updated at 8.12am AEST | Updated at 8.12am AEST |