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You can find the current article at its original source at https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/live/2016/jun/08/has-hillary-clintons-victory-finally-shattered-the-glass-ceiling-for-women-live
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| Has the glass ceiling for women finally been shattered by Hillary Clinton? – live | Has the glass ceiling for women finally been shattered by Hillary Clinton? – live |
| (35 minutes later) | |
| 12.47pm BST | |
| 12:47 | |
| James Walsh | |
| We’re trying out our fancy new polling tool for the first time in a Guardian live blog: a historic moment, though perhaps not quite as historic as Clinton’s status as Democratic nominee. | |
| Updated | |
| at 12.49pm BST | |
| 12.42pm BST | |
| 12:42 | |
| Clinton’s nomination is a crack in the glass ceiling – but there's a way to go to shatter it | |
| Harriet Minter | |
| There can be no doubt that Hillary Clinton’s victory in the Democratic nomination race is a breakthrough for women but I’m not sure it’s shattered the glass ceiling. The campaign against Clinton has focused a lot on how she might be a woman but she’s still old politics – she isn’t as radical as Sanders, as out-there as Trump. The sad reality though, is that had she been a bigger personality, with more extreme views and less interest in what people thought of her, she wouldn’t now have the nomination. You can be as radical as you like when you’re a white man and still command some level of respect. The rest of us are walking a very thin tight rope of trying to blend in enough that we’re accepted but not so much that we’re overlooked. We’re not yet at the point where women can do that in their own way, we still have to play the game to get ahead. The only way we’ll start to change this is when we reach a critical mass of women in power, when there are so many of us that standing out is not only necessary but desirable. Clinton’s nomination is a crack in the glass ceiling but it’s those who take up politics because of her, who see a female president and believe they can do that too (regardless of whether they want to endorse her policies or tear them down) that will really smash it. | |
| Updated | |
| at 12.51pm BST | |
| 12.40pm BST | |
| 12:40 | |
| Two interesting comments: | |
| Do people want a woman for a president or a president that cares about women? If it's the latter, you've picked the wrong horse. Bernie actually gives a rats whilst Hilary just wants to sit on the throne. | |
| I would say it's a significant crack rather than a smash. One person getting in at the top/elite level doesn't create an immediate culture change - see how women starting to get into boardrooms hasn't overnight eliminated sexism in workplaces - and Clinton becoming President wouldn't necessarily change much in the day to day of women from less privileged backgrounds. But it's a big step. | |
| 12.39pm BST | |
| 12:39 | |
| James Walsh | |
| Another view from the comments, from a reader who thinks Clinton’s establishment credentials “severely undercut” the historical impact of her candidacy. | |
| Anyone out there excited or inspired by Clinton’s achievement? | |
| I feel like the female factor is severely undercut by the fact that it's Clinton.The idea that Hilary Clinton is in anyway representative of women, or what it's possible for women to achieve seems warped to me. | |
| Is she a good candidate for president irrespective of her being a woman?I don't think so. I think her politics is stale and her leadership is weak. I think she's more vulnerable to Trump than Sanders would have been. She's an establishment pick in the middle of the biggest outpouring of anti establishment fervour in the modern era and at a time when the world can ill afford "Business as Usual" politics she is a continuity candidate promising nothing but Business as Usual. | |
| 12.31pm BST | |
| 12:31 | |
| Sarah Marsh | |
| Would like to highlight attention to this interesting comment from our anonymous form: | |
| The election of Barack Obama in 2008 was held up by many as evidence of a “post-racial” US society. Well, eight years later we witness an openly racist candidate winning the Republican nomination. The temptation to see single events as shattering long-standing social structures is strong, but it’s just a way to avoid uncomfortable discussions on deep systematic discrimination (like racism and sexism). | |
| Updated | |
| at 12.31pm BST | |
| 12.25pm BST | |
| 12:25 | |
| Sarah Marsh | |
| Many people in the comments have noted that the US is in fact behind in terms of the progress of other countries in this area (AKA Margaret Thatcher): | |
| It is 37 years since Mrs Thatcher became UK prime minister. | |
| Golda Meir was Israeli PM before that. | |
| Just what is special about Clinton merely becoming a candidate in an election? | |
| Meir, Ghandi, Thatcher, Gillard, Merkel and I bet several more beat the US by decades in some cases. They have a lot of catching up to do, particularly with the achievements of Aung San Suu Kyi. | |
| Updated | |
| at 12.30pm BST | |
| 12.23pm BST | |
| 12:23 | |
| James Walsh | |
| We asked our readers in the US what they thought about Clinton’s candidacy, and we heard in particular from Bernie Sanders supporters who are weighing up whether to back the candidate they have been voting and campaigning against in the bruising primary process. | |
| As both a woman and a member of the Democratic Party, I am horrified at the prospect of Clinton being the presidential candidate - a Democrat who, to add insult to injury, crows about how admired she is by one of the most reviled Secretaries of State in modern history, Henry Kissinger. Her gender is of little consequence when viewed in the totality of her person. | |
| Hillary’s nomination is an example of how the establishment quells the progressive movement by giving us change on the outside and continuity on the inside. Having the first female candidate in a general election is our consolation prize. In return, we still have to vote for a broken and corrupt political system. | |
| She’s such a divisive figure that I don’t know if we’ll really be able to celebrate the fact that a woman won. | |
| Updated | |
| at 12.27pm BST | |
| 12.17pm BST | 12.17pm BST |
| 12:17 | 12:17 |
| That is the colossal event that guarantees Clinton a unique place in US history | That is the colossal event that guarantees Clinton a unique place in US history |
| Anne Perkins | Anne Perkins |
| How slowly revolutions seem to happen when you live through them. Nearly 100 years after women’s suffrage first arrived in the US, two generations after feminism began the gradual transformation of its public face, Hillary Clinton has at last become the first woman to win the presidential nomination of one of the two main parties. | |
| That is the colossal, historic event that, win or lose, will guarantee Clinton a unique place in American history. The scale of it cannot be overstated. The world’s biggest economy might now be led by a woman; the world’s mightiest military may have a female commander in chief. There are many different versions of justice, but for women this is surely the pinnacle. | That is the colossal, historic event that, win or lose, will guarantee Clinton a unique place in American history. The scale of it cannot be overstated. The world’s biggest economy might now be led by a woman; the world’s mightiest military may have a female commander in chief. There are many different versions of justice, but for women this is surely the pinnacle. |
| Already, Clinton is no longer a former first lady, nor a former secretary of state. If she wins, she will not be thought of as second or subordinate or wife of or mother of anyone. She will be It. | Already, Clinton is no longer a former first lady, nor a former secretary of state. If she wins, she will not be thought of as second or subordinate or wife of or mother of anyone. She will be It. |
| But her triumph means more than that. It is an astonishing personal achievement. The resilience she has shown throughout her public life is nothing short of an inspiration. As first lady, she has survived the wretched period of the Monica Lewinsky affair, the threat of impeachment, and two gruelling campaigns as wife of the nominee. She has been a senator, she has fought for her party’s nomination and been defeated by a challenger she had not seen coming. She was secretary of state for nearly four years. | But her triumph means more than that. It is an astonishing personal achievement. The resilience she has shown throughout her public life is nothing short of an inspiration. As first lady, she has survived the wretched period of the Monica Lewinsky affair, the threat of impeachment, and two gruelling campaigns as wife of the nominee. She has been a senator, she has fought for her party’s nomination and been defeated by a challenger she had not seen coming. She was secretary of state for nearly four years. |
| That means the six months between now and polling day will be even more testing than they will be for her rival. She has so much to overcome – miscalls on Syria and Libya as secretary of state, questions over her use of a private email account, her huge income from public speaking, her chill public demeanour and the political challenge left to the Democrats by Bernie Sanders. | That means the six months between now and polling day will be even more testing than they will be for her rival. She has so much to overcome – miscalls on Syria and Libya as secretary of state, questions over her use of a private email account, her huge income from public speaking, her chill public demeanour and the political challenge left to the Democrats by Bernie Sanders. |
| It means something else, though. She has been through so much already. She is truly fired in the unrelenting heat of the public gaze. She is not likely to crack now. | It means something else, though. She has been through so much already. She is truly fired in the unrelenting heat of the public gaze. She is not likely to crack now. |
| Updated | |
| at 12.23pm BST | |
| 12.09pm BST | 12.09pm BST |
| 12:09 | 12:09 |
| This job will never be open to those not born into class privilege | This job will never be open to those not born into class privilege |
| Julie Bindel | Julie Bindel |
| I do not care about the glass ceiling while millions of women and girls live in abject poverty. No working class girl who is growing up in this cruel, neoliberal world will look at Clinton and think, “I could be president/prime minister one day” because this job will never be open to those not born into class privilege. | I do not care about the glass ceiling while millions of women and girls live in abject poverty. No working class girl who is growing up in this cruel, neoliberal world will look at Clinton and think, “I could be president/prime minister one day” because this job will never be open to those not born into class privilege. |
| Clinton is no feminist, and has betrayed the women that accused Bill Clinton of sexual assault in order to further her career. I would vote for any Democrat to keep the Republicans out, including Clinton, but she is no friend to women. | Clinton is no feminist, and has betrayed the women that accused Bill Clinton of sexual assault in order to further her career. I would vote for any Democrat to keep the Republicans out, including Clinton, but she is no friend to women. |
| 12.06pm BST | 12.06pm BST |
| 12:06 | 12:06 |
| James Walsh | James Walsh |
| Here are a few responses to Clinton’s victory from popular social media platform Twitter. Lots of people expressing their admiration for the achievement, but plenty of dissenting voices too. | Here are a few responses to Clinton’s victory from popular social media platform Twitter. Lots of people expressing their admiration for the achievement, but plenty of dissenting voices too. |
| If you want to share you views on the debate via Twitter, we’re on @GuardianOpinion | If you want to share you views on the debate via Twitter, we’re on @GuardianOpinion |
| Prez nominees 1789-2016 🚶🚶🚶🚶🚶🚶🚶🚶🚶🚶🚶🚶🚶🚶🚶🚶🚶🚶🚶🚶🚶🚶🚶🚶🚶🚶🚶🚶🚶🚶🚶🚶🚶🚶🚶🚶🚶🚶🚶🚶🚶🚶🚶🚶🚶🚶🚶🚶🚶🚶🚶🚶🚶🚶🚶🚶🚶🚶🚶🚶🚶🚶🚶🚶🚶🚶🚶🚶🚶🚶🚶🚶🚶🚶🚶🚶🚶🚶🚶🚶🚶🚶🚶🚶🚶🚶🚶🚶🚶🚶🚶🚶🚶🚶🚶🚶🚶🚶🚶🚶🚶🚶🚶🚶🚶🚶🚶🚶🚶🚶🚶🚶🚶🚶💃 | Prez nominees 1789-2016 🚶🚶🚶🚶🚶🚶🚶🚶🚶🚶🚶🚶🚶🚶🚶🚶🚶🚶🚶🚶🚶🚶🚶🚶🚶🚶🚶🚶🚶🚶🚶🚶🚶🚶🚶🚶🚶🚶🚶🚶🚶🚶🚶🚶🚶🚶🚶🚶🚶🚶🚶🚶🚶🚶🚶🚶🚶🚶🚶🚶🚶🚶🚶🚶🚶🚶🚶🚶🚶🚶🚶🚶🚶🚶🚶🚶🚶🚶🚶🚶🚶🚶🚶🚶🚶🚶🚶🚶🚶🚶🚶🚶🚶🚶🚶🚶🚶🚶🚶🚶🚶🚶🚶🚶🚶🚶🚶🚶🚶🚶🚶🚶🚶🚶💃 |
| A lot of little girls are in bed right now dreaming for the first time, without limits. You broke the mold @HillaryClinton 🇺🇸 | A lot of little girls are in bed right now dreaming for the first time, without limits. You broke the mold @HillaryClinton 🇺🇸 |
| Couldn't help thinking of my 12 year old daughter when I heard Hilary Clinton's speech. Today is an historic day. | Couldn't help thinking of my 12 year old daughter when I heard Hilary Clinton's speech. Today is an historic day. |
| Bull. Not under the plutocracy u represent. As a feminist, I should feel a thrill right now. I grieve that I don't. https://t.co/uz0y08mbbi | Bull. Not under the plutocracy u represent. As a feminist, I should feel a thrill right now. I grieve that I don't. https://t.co/uz0y08mbbi |
| 12.02pm BST | 12.02pm BST |
| 12:02 | 12:02 |
| Sarah Marsh | Sarah Marsh |
| Share your views via our anonymous form | Share your views via our anonymous form |
| 10.36am BST | 10.36am BST |
| 10:36 | 10:36 |
| Welcome to the debate | Welcome to the debate |
| Sarah Marsh | Sarah Marsh |
| Last night Hillary Clinton claimed the Democratic nomination, embracing her role as the first woman in history to lead a major party’s bid for the White House. | Last night Hillary Clinton claimed the Democratic nomination, embracing her role as the first woman in history to lead a major party’s bid for the White House. |
| The former secretary of state celebrated her victory in the nominating race over rival Bernie Sanders with supporters in New York. She described it as a “milestone” moment for women. | The former secretary of state celebrated her victory in the nominating race over rival Bernie Sanders with supporters in New York. She described it as a “milestone” moment for women. |
| This comes despite the fact Sanders is still running, and the party’s nominee won’t be official until the delegate votes at the parties’ national conventions next month. | This comes despite the fact Sanders is still running, and the party’s nominee won’t be official until the delegate votes at the parties’ national conventions next month. |
| Clinton tweeted: “Tonight we can say with pride that, in America, there is no barrier too great and no ceiling too high to break.” | Clinton tweeted: “Tonight we can say with pride that, in America, there is no barrier too great and no ceiling too high to break.” |
| Tonight, we can say with pride that, in America, there is no barrier too great and no ceiling too high to break. pic.twitter.com/7vbGPJe543 | Tonight, we can say with pride that, in America, there is no barrier too great and no ceiling too high to break. pic.twitter.com/7vbGPJe543 |
| Many women voters reacted to the news with emotion. “To paraphrase Neil Armstrong, this is one big step for women, and a bigger step for America,” said Barbara Lee, founder and president of the nonpartisan Barbara Lee Family Foundation which researches women’s races for executive office. | Many women voters reacted to the news with emotion. “To paraphrase Neil Armstrong, this is one big step for women, and a bigger step for America,” said Barbara Lee, founder and president of the nonpartisan Barbara Lee Family Foundation which researches women’s races for executive office. |
| “A woman at the head of the table changes the conversation,” Lee continued. “A woman at the top of the ticket changes our perception of leadership – and the narrative about what girls can aspire to be.” | “A woman at the head of the table changes the conversation,” Lee continued. “A woman at the top of the ticket changes our perception of leadership – and the narrative about what girls can aspire to be.” |
| Certainly evidence would suggest that women in office inspire other women to run. Amelia Showalter, a political consultant specialising in data and analytics, studied the impact of electing women to statewide offices and found that the presence of a recruiting campaign could increase the share of women in the state legislature by about a percentage point. But what’s the impact beyond the political sphere? | Certainly evidence would suggest that women in office inspire other women to run. Amelia Showalter, a political consultant specialising in data and analytics, studied the impact of electing women to statewide offices and found that the presence of a recruiting campaign could increase the share of women in the state legislature by about a percentage point. But what’s the impact beyond the political sphere? |
| Outside of the highest echelons of power, around the world women still face great challenges, including economic inequality, domestic violence, and other forms of violence against women. | Outside of the highest echelons of power, around the world women still face great challenges, including economic inequality, domestic violence, and other forms of violence against women. |
| What’s more, it’s been argued that Clinton does not represent values that help women, especially those from diverse racial and socioeconomic backgrounds. Speaking to The Guardian Anoa Changa said: “I’m sure for a certain class of women [Hillary Clinton] is perfect ... But there are a lot of issues that affect low-income women, immigrant women and women of color that her brand of doing things is not going to address.” | What’s more, it’s been argued that Clinton does not represent values that help women, especially those from diverse racial and socioeconomic backgrounds. Speaking to The Guardian Anoa Changa said: “I’m sure for a certain class of women [Hillary Clinton] is perfect ... But there are a lot of issues that affect low-income women, immigrant women and women of color that her brand of doing things is not going to address.” |
| Changa said Sanders’ campaign for free tuition and a $15 minimum wage (among other things) tackles the roots of poverty, an issue that disproportionately affects women, better than Clinton’s platform. | Changa said Sanders’ campaign for free tuition and a $15 minimum wage (among other things) tackles the roots of poverty, an issue that disproportionately affects women, better than Clinton’s platform. |
| Join us 12pm to 2pm to discuss the significance of this moment, as well as the challenges women still face today. Which industries are still rife with sexism? What can we do about the equal pay debate? How might Clinton be able to improve the situation? | Join us 12pm to 2pm to discuss the significance of this moment, as well as the challenges women still face today. Which industries are still rife with sexism? What can we do about the equal pay debate? How might Clinton be able to improve the situation? |
| Comments will be open at noon. Looking forward to kicking off at lunchtime, email ahead any comments to sarah.marsh@theguardian.com. | Comments will be open at noon. Looking forward to kicking off at lunchtime, email ahead any comments to sarah.marsh@theguardian.com. |
| Updated | Updated |
| at 11.05am BST | at 11.05am BST |