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You can find the current article at its original source at https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/live/2016/jun/08/has-hillary-clintons-victory-finally-shattered-the-glass-ceiling-for-women-live
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| Has the glass ceiling for women finally been shattered by Hillary Clinton? – live | Has the glass ceiling for women finally been shattered by Hillary Clinton? – live |
| (35 minutes later) | |
| 2.01pm BST | 2.01pm BST |
| 14:01 | 14:01 |
| James Walsh | James Walsh |
| Comments on our live blog will be closing shortly - thanks to all our contributors and commenters for taking part in such an interesting debate. | Comments on our live blog will be closing shortly - thanks to all our contributors and commenters for taking part in such an interesting debate. |
| A quick glance at our poll shows 75% think Clinton’s victory does not constitute the breaking of the glass ceiling for women - a percentage that reflects the views coming in via our form and below the line. It feels like Clinton has plenty to do in terms of reaching out to Bernie Sanders supporters in particular. | A quick glance at our poll shows 75% think Clinton’s victory does not constitute the breaking of the glass ceiling for women - a percentage that reflects the views coming in via our form and below the line. It feels like Clinton has plenty to do in terms of reaching out to Bernie Sanders supporters in particular. |
| We’ll host another debate next Wednesday - you can contact Sarah.Marsh@theguardian.com and / or James.Walsh@theguardian.com with your topic suggestions. | We’ll host another debate next Wednesday - you can contact Sarah.Marsh@theguardian.com and / or James.Walsh@theguardian.com with your topic suggestions. |
| Thanks all. | Thanks all. |
| Updated | |
| at 2.05pm BST | |
| 1.57pm BST | 1.57pm BST |
| 13:57 | 13:57 |
| A woman in the White House would bring to the surface existing concerns around structural, ingrained sexism | A woman in the White House would bring to the surface existing concerns around structural, ingrained sexism |
| James Walsh | James Walsh |
| A few more comments from below the line from our readers. | A few more comments from below the line from our readers. |
| I think, much like Obama's presidency has seemed to provide time and space for systemic issues of race discrimination to be highlighted and talked about openly and repeatedly, a woman in the White House would bring to the surface existing concerns around structural, ingrained sexism. Whether or not America has ways to address these problems around both race and gender is less clear. | I think, much like Obama's presidency has seemed to provide time and space for systemic issues of race discrimination to be highlighted and talked about openly and repeatedly, a woman in the White House would bring to the surface existing concerns around structural, ingrained sexism. Whether or not America has ways to address these problems around both race and gender is less clear. |
| She is a brilliant woman and the US will be in more capable hands than with Trump. But it is tough to see this as a watershed moment for a few reasons. | She is a brilliant woman and the US will be in more capable hands than with Trump. But it is tough to see this as a watershed moment for a few reasons. |
| 1. The taboo of women leaders is long past. Merkel is titan and Scotland's main parties are run by women. Clinton isn't making history so much as she is a beneficiary. Perhaps she should be doffing her cap to the likes of Thatcher. | 1. The taboo of women leaders is long past. Merkel is titan and Scotland's main parties are run by women. Clinton isn't making history so much as she is a beneficiary. Perhaps she should be doffing her cap to the likes of Thatcher. |
| 2. It was as close to a coronation as you can get. Whatever you wish to say about Trump, he at least fought through 16 tough, big name candidates. The entire Democratic establishment rolled over for Hillary, thanks to the machine they've developed. It took a 70-something independent to give her any competition. There was a democratic deficit. | 2. It was as close to a coronation as you can get. Whatever you wish to say about Trump, he at least fought through 16 tough, big name candidates. The entire Democratic establishment rolled over for Hillary, thanks to the machine they've developed. It took a 70-something independent to give her any competition. There was a democratic deficit. |
| 3. She is close to being unaccountable. She didn't take questions from the press for months. She got a documentary about her, made by Oscar winner Charles Ferguson, effectively shut down by ordering that nobody talks to him. Is this the kind of figure we should be celebrating just because of her body parts? | 3. She is close to being unaccountable. She didn't take questions from the press for months. She got a documentary about her, made by Oscar winner Charles Ferguson, effectively shut down by ordering that nobody talks to him. Is this the kind of figure we should be celebrating just because of her body parts? |
| 4. There are large demographics really suffering out there, and in need of true champions who offer radical policies. Clinton has not done that for them. There's a reason Sanders attracted such support, and it wasn't because of his gender. The status quo simply won't be good enough for a lot of people out there. | 4. There are large demographics really suffering out there, and in need of true champions who offer radical policies. Clinton has not done that for them. There's a reason Sanders attracted such support, and it wasn't because of his gender. The status quo simply won't be good enough for a lot of people out there. |
| You ask the average liberal voter (probably conservative too), and they'd have little truck with Elizabeth Warren running for president. Indeed, she'd have unconditional support in most quarters. The issues with the Clintons of this world go way beyond gender. | You ask the average liberal voter (probably conservative too), and they'd have little truck with Elizabeth Warren running for president. Indeed, she'd have unconditional support in most quarters. The issues with the Clintons of this world go way beyond gender. |
| 1.46pm BST | 1.46pm BST |
| 13:46 | 13:46 |
| Stop and think how women who reach positions of power are showered with contempt | Stop and think how women who reach positions of power are showered with contempt |
| Polly Toynbee | Polly Toynbee |
| Hillary Clinton’s nomination is thrilling. She’s not just any woman, but a feminist who has fought all her life for every woman’s cause – from abortion to equal rights. That makes her unpopular – not unlike our own Harriet Harman, who is despised for her feminist campaigning, yet neither have ever been deterred by personal abuse. They grew thick skins through many hard years of feminist campaigns. | Hillary Clinton’s nomination is thrilling. She’s not just any woman, but a feminist who has fought all her life for every woman’s cause – from abortion to equal rights. That makes her unpopular – not unlike our own Harriet Harman, who is despised for her feminist campaigning, yet neither have ever been deterred by personal abuse. They grew thick skins through many hard years of feminist campaigns. |
| Stop and think how women who reach positions of power are showered with contempt – and if you, as a woman, think you don’t like Hillary (or Harriet), ask yourself if you are subtly influenced by the constant attacks on them by those who hate feminists? Worse still, is there some part of you that wants women to be fighting from the outside, always the victims, never the holders of power in a position to actually make changes to women’s lives? | Stop and think how women who reach positions of power are showered with contempt – and if you, as a woman, think you don’t like Hillary (or Harriet), ask yourself if you are subtly influenced by the constant attacks on them by those who hate feminists? Worse still, is there some part of you that wants women to be fighting from the outside, always the victims, never the holders of power in a position to actually make changes to women’s lives? |
| Hurrah for Hillary! | Hurrah for Hillary! |
| 1.26pm BST | 1.26pm BST |
| 13:26 | 13:26 |
| I hope she does the job well under all the added pressure that being a woman in the public eye brings | I hope she does the job well under all the added pressure that being a woman in the public eye brings |
| James Walsh | James Walsh |
| A comment via our form, which is still eagerly accepting reader views. | A comment via our form, which is still eagerly accepting reader views. |
| Hilary does not represent all women. When a man runs for president or is elected, he is not expected to represent all men. The bar is always higher for women, she is more than qualified to be President. I think it is great that a woman is running for President. She will surely be a better president than Sanders or Trump. I don’t expect her to change things for women but hope that she brings a different perspective and a different way of looking and thinking about women’s issues that influences others. I hope she does the job well under all the added pressure that being a woman in the public eye brings, a scrutiny that, as we all know, men aren’t subjected to. | Hilary does not represent all women. When a man runs for president or is elected, he is not expected to represent all men. The bar is always higher for women, she is more than qualified to be President. I think it is great that a woman is running for President. She will surely be a better president than Sanders or Trump. I don’t expect her to change things for women but hope that she brings a different perspective and a different way of looking and thinking about women’s issues that influences others. I hope she does the job well under all the added pressure that being a woman in the public eye brings, a scrutiny that, as we all know, men aren’t subjected to. |
| Updated | Updated |
| at 1.26pm BST | at 1.26pm BST |
| 1.22pm BST | 1.22pm BST |
| 13:22 | 13:22 |
| The nomination has been gifted to her by a bunch of elderly white superdelegates | The nomination has been gifted to her by a bunch of elderly white superdelegates |
| Sarah Marsh | Sarah Marsh |
| Some astute observations from commenters. | Some astute observations from commenters. |
| "There can be no doubt that Hillary Clinton’s victory in the Democratic nomination race is a breakthrough for women" | "There can be no doubt that Hillary Clinton’s victory in the Democratic nomination race is a breakthrough for women" |
| Yep the nomination has been gifted to her by a bunch of elderly white Superdelegates. In exchange she'll do exactly what they tell her to and her policies will no doubt do more harm to women than men | Yep the nomination has been gifted to her by a bunch of elderly white Superdelegates. In exchange she'll do exactly what they tell her to and her policies will no doubt do more harm to women than men |
| Absolutely revolutionary | Absolutely revolutionary |
| Here is a list where a women has been elected a PM/ President:-- Brazil- Australia- United Kingdom- Israel- Portugal- Norway- Canada- Turkey- A LOT MORE...To say that just because it is the US who COULD elect a Female Leader why is it a case where only she is eligible for breaking the 'Glass Ceiling', there have been loads of Female leaders over the past 50 years and even though Hillary isn't actually President yet, she's only the leader of the Democrats, she is automatically labelled as the one 'Who breaks the 'Glass Ceiling'. | Here is a list where a women has been elected a PM/ President:-- Brazil- Australia- United Kingdom- Israel- Portugal- Norway- Canada- Turkey- A LOT MORE...To say that just because it is the US who COULD elect a Female Leader why is it a case where only she is eligible for breaking the 'Glass Ceiling', there have been loads of Female leaders over the past 50 years and even though Hillary isn't actually President yet, she's only the leader of the Democrats, she is automatically labelled as the one 'Who breaks the 'Glass Ceiling'. |
| 1.13pm BST | 1.13pm BST |
| 13:13 | 13:13 |
| James Walsh | James Walsh |
| On the one hand: | On the one hand: |
| “It’s exciting that she is the first woman nominee. It’s historic regardless what one may think of her personally.” | “It’s exciting that she is the first woman nominee. It’s historic regardless what one may think of her personally.” |
| On the other: | On the other: |
| “I understand that many people see this as historic because she ‘broke the glass ceiling’.” But didn’t you folks across the pond have Margaret Thatcher? Didn’t we have Sarah Palin running for VP? It has to be about more than gender.” | “I understand that many people see this as historic because she ‘broke the glass ceiling’.” But didn’t you folks across the pond have Margaret Thatcher? Didn’t we have Sarah Palin running for VP? It has to be about more than gender.” |
| As mentioned earlier, we’ve been putting together reader reaction on Clinton’s candidacy. You can read the full vox pops below. | As mentioned earlier, we’ve been putting together reader reaction on Clinton’s candidacy. You can read the full vox pops below. |
| Related: 'It’s between a buffoon and a vampire': readers on Clinton's candidacy | Related: 'It’s between a buffoon and a vampire': readers on Clinton's candidacy |
| 1.13pm BST | 1.13pm BST |
| 13:13 | 13:13 |
| What are the biggest challenges women face in the UK? | What are the biggest challenges women face in the UK? |
| Sarah Marsh | Sarah Marsh |
| It’s interesting to use this debate to also look at the biggest challenges for women in the UK. What do people think that they are? How far are we in terms of equality in politics? Sadiq Khan, the new mayor of London, just appointed two women in top roles. | It’s interesting to use this debate to also look at the biggest challenges for women in the UK. What do people think that they are? How far are we in terms of equality in politics? Sadiq Khan, the new mayor of London, just appointed two women in top roles. |
| A while ago I ran a piece that explored challenges around the world. Here are two contributions from the UK that offer food for thought: | A while ago I ran a piece that explored challenges around the world. Here are two contributions from the UK that offer food for thought: |
| Mary, 57: ‘We need more support for victims of domestic violence’ | Mary, 57: ‘We need more support for victims of domestic violence’ |
| I am the parent of a young woman who is the victim of domestic violence. She feels powerless and let down by the lack of legal support (the government has removed legal aid for domestic violence cases and funding to support agencies), and the absence of police officers who know how to deal with these cases and provide the right information. My daughter doesn’t believe anyone is on her side or that she has any power. The passing of legislation, which includes bullying and coercive behaviour under the umbrella of domestic violence, has been a good move, but women really need more support to help them win these cases. They need to feel safe and that we’re on their side. | I am the parent of a young woman who is the victim of domestic violence. She feels powerless and let down by the lack of legal support (the government has removed legal aid for domestic violence cases and funding to support agencies), and the absence of police officers who know how to deal with these cases and provide the right information. My daughter doesn’t believe anyone is on her side or that she has any power. The passing of legislation, which includes bullying and coercive behaviour under the umbrella of domestic violence, has been a good move, but women really need more support to help them win these cases. They need to feel safe and that we’re on their side. |
| Chardine, 30: ‘Street harassment and racism are daily occurrences’ | Chardine, 30: ‘Street harassment and racism are daily occurrences’ |
| Street harassment, misogyny and racism are a daily occurrence for black women in this country. If we are not on the receiving end of those then we are treated as if we are invisible. I could give several accounts of situations where I have been outright ignored and then the very thing I said repeated by a white man and given praise. When you challenge that behaviour you are then called an “angry black woman” or told that you are “too proud”. We all need to be more open to listening to each other and stop building defences when someone challenges us on our behaviours that oppress others. | Street harassment, misogyny and racism are a daily occurrence for black women in this country. If we are not on the receiving end of those then we are treated as if we are invisible. I could give several accounts of situations where I have been outright ignored and then the very thing I said repeated by a white man and given praise. When you challenge that behaviour you are then called an “angry black woman” or told that you are “too proud”. We all need to be more open to listening to each other and stop building defences when someone challenges us on our behaviours that oppress others. |
| 1.03pm BST | 1.03pm BST |
| 13:03 | 13:03 |
| How on earth could rallying around such a capable woman be a dreary chore? | How on earth could rallying around such a capable woman be a dreary chore? |
| James Walsh | James Walsh |
| Comments keep on heading in - remember, if you’d lacking a commenting account, we have a form you can fill out instead. | Comments keep on heading in - remember, if you’d lacking a commenting account, we have a form you can fill out instead. |
| Here’s a reader who is slightly bemused at the lack of excitement at what a Clinton victory would represent. | Here’s a reader who is slightly bemused at the lack of excitement at what a Clinton victory would represent. |
| I get the caveats, objections, dislike. What I don’t understand is the supposed lack of excitement. Isn’t it a pleasure to listen to somebody so very intelligent and knowledgeable, even if you partly disagree with her (if in every item, you’re a Republican anyway)? How on earth could rallying around such a capable woman be a dreary chore?And the impact of this news in, say, Saudi Arabia. Mmm. Great. | I get the caveats, objections, dislike. What I don’t understand is the supposed lack of excitement. Isn’t it a pleasure to listen to somebody so very intelligent and knowledgeable, even if you partly disagree with her (if in every item, you’re a Republican anyway)? How on earth could rallying around such a capable woman be a dreary chore?And the impact of this news in, say, Saudi Arabia. Mmm. Great. |
| Updated | Updated |
| at 1.04pm BST | at 1.04pm BST |
| 12.57pm BST | 12.57pm BST |
| 12:57 | 12:57 |
| Clinton should reflect on how embedded in big business and the establishment she is | Clinton should reflect on how embedded in big business and the establishment she is |
| Dawn Foster | Dawn Foster |
| The Democratic race ended fittingly – a calculation by CNN rather than an outright win, figured that with the backing of undeclared super-delegates, Hillary Clinton had won the race. Little fanfare, and a quiet embarrassment that Clinton should have walked it, but struggled so much against an outsider, a more radical, much older senator from Vermont, who few had heard of before, but managed to whip young people into a frenzy. | The Democratic race ended fittingly – a calculation by CNN rather than an outright win, figured that with the backing of undeclared super-delegates, Hillary Clinton had won the race. Little fanfare, and a quiet embarrassment that Clinton should have walked it, but struggled so much against an outsider, a more radical, much older senator from Vermont, who few had heard of before, but managed to whip young people into a frenzy. |
| Bernie Sanders appealed far more to me than Clinton throughout the race, and clearly many young people felt the same: the idea that gender trumps class and economic position is clearly bunk: economic inequality and gender inequality go hand in hand, and young women have had enough of both. That Clinton is the first female candidate to have a clear run for the White House is momentous: but the argument that women should by virtue of their gender have always supported Clinton over Sanders is patronising. Clinton should be shaken by how difficult she found it to win the nomination, and reflect on how embedded in big business and the establishment she is: many other women in US politics, such as Kshama Sawant and Elizabeth Warren, show you can be a woman in politics and kick back at traditional power structures and conventions: Clinton should follow suit. | Bernie Sanders appealed far more to me than Clinton throughout the race, and clearly many young people felt the same: the idea that gender trumps class and economic position is clearly bunk: economic inequality and gender inequality go hand in hand, and young women have had enough of both. That Clinton is the first female candidate to have a clear run for the White House is momentous: but the argument that women should by virtue of their gender have always supported Clinton over Sanders is patronising. Clinton should be shaken by how difficult she found it to win the nomination, and reflect on how embedded in big business and the establishment she is: many other women in US politics, such as Kshama Sawant and Elizabeth Warren, show you can be a woman in politics and kick back at traditional power structures and conventions: Clinton should follow suit. |
| 12.47pm BST | 12.47pm BST |
| 12:47 | 12:47 |
| James Walsh | James Walsh |
| We’re trying out our fancy new polling tool for the first time in a Guardian live blog: a historic moment, though perhaps not quite as historic as Clinton’s status as Democratic nominee. | We’re trying out our fancy new polling tool for the first time in a Guardian live blog: a historic moment, though perhaps not quite as historic as Clinton’s status as Democratic nominee. |
| Updated | Updated |
| at 12.49pm BST | at 12.49pm BST |
| 12.42pm BST | 12.42pm BST |
| 12:42 | 12:42 |
| Clinton’s nomination is a crack in the glass ceiling – but there's a way to go to shatter it | Clinton’s nomination is a crack in the glass ceiling – but there's a way to go to shatter it |
| Harriet Minter | Harriet Minter |
| There can be no doubt that Hillary Clinton’s victory in the Democratic nomination race is a breakthrough for women but I’m not sure it’s shattered the glass ceiling. The campaign against Clinton has focused a lot on how she might be a woman but she’s still old politics – she isn’t as radical as Sanders, as out-there as Trump. The sad reality though, is that had she been a bigger personality, with more extreme views and less interest in what people thought of her, she wouldn’t now have the nomination. You can be as radical as you like when you’re a white man and still command some level of respect. The rest of us are walking a very thin tight rope of trying to blend in enough that we’re accepted but not so much that we’re overlooked. We’re not yet at the point where women can do that in their own way, we still have to play the game to get ahead. The only way we’ll start to change this is when we reach a critical mass of women in power, when there are so many of us that standing out is not only necessary but desirable. Clinton’s nomination is a crack in the glass ceiling but it’s those who take up politics because of her, who see a female president and believe they can do that too (regardless of whether they want to endorse her policies or tear them down) that will really smash it. | There can be no doubt that Hillary Clinton’s victory in the Democratic nomination race is a breakthrough for women but I’m not sure it’s shattered the glass ceiling. The campaign against Clinton has focused a lot on how she might be a woman but she’s still old politics – she isn’t as radical as Sanders, as out-there as Trump. The sad reality though, is that had she been a bigger personality, with more extreme views and less interest in what people thought of her, she wouldn’t now have the nomination. You can be as radical as you like when you’re a white man and still command some level of respect. The rest of us are walking a very thin tight rope of trying to blend in enough that we’re accepted but not so much that we’re overlooked. We’re not yet at the point where women can do that in their own way, we still have to play the game to get ahead. The only way we’ll start to change this is when we reach a critical mass of women in power, when there are so many of us that standing out is not only necessary but desirable. Clinton’s nomination is a crack in the glass ceiling but it’s those who take up politics because of her, who see a female president and believe they can do that too (regardless of whether they want to endorse her policies or tear them down) that will really smash it. |
| Updated | Updated |
| at 12.51pm BST | at 12.51pm BST |