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EU referendum live: VAT could rise 2% under Tory Brexit budget, Labour says
EU referendum live: David Cameron and Nigel Farage grilled by Buzzfeed readers
(35 minutes later)
5.04pm BST
17:04
Farage says Ukip not racist, but wrongly 'demonised by establishment' for its EU stance
Here is the line from Nigel Farage where he claimed that Ukip had never been racist or homophobic, but that it had been “demonised” by the media because it was defying conventional wisdom. Farage said:
When I first appeared on Question Time on the BBC back in 2000 I was the first person in 20 years on Question Time that had said I thought we should leave the European Union. So what I am guilty of is making Europe a big issue in British politics, and I’m guilty of forcing Mr Cameron into holding this referendum.
In life, if you challenge the establishment, whether it’s in business, whether it’s in science, whether it’s in politics, if you take on a consensus view, they will abuse you. And what happened to me in 2014 was our party started to rise in the polls, and the establishment got terrified. ‘Crikey, these awful Ukip people might win the European elections.’ There was a quite deliberate attempt to paint out Euroscepticism, me and my supporters, as being racist, homophobic, anti-foreigner - none of it, absolutely none of it, was ever true ...
We’ve been demonised by a media, by an establishment, scared of a different argument.
When it was put to him that there was a long list of Ukip members who have said unacceptable things, he said these were people who had gone online after having “one too many” in the pub.
We had Ukip people who, coming back from the pub, after one too many, said stupid or at times abusive or abrasive things. At the same over 200 councillors from the Conservatives, Labour and the Liberal Democrats were actually arrested or imprisoned for crimines including rape, paedophilia, even planting bombs in North Wales.
Farage also claimed that Ukip’s record on dealing with problems like antisemitism was better than Labour’s.
4.48pm BST
16:48
Farage has finished.
The online response was 70% liking him, 25% not liking him. But in the studio only 45% of the audience liked him, and 55% did not like him.
4.47pm BST
16:47
Q: If it is a vote to remain, will you quit politics?
Farage says he will go out and get hammered, and then think about it the following day.
4.46pm BST
16:46
A member of the audience wearing a headscarf says she never expected to agree with a word he said, but thinks he has been giving straight answers to questions. But, with regard to sex attacks, it is not just an issue to do with immigrants, she says.
Farage says he wants a points-based immigration system.
4.45pm BST
16:45
Q: Can you explain your Sunday Telegraph comments about Cologne-style sex attacks?
Farage says he was asked if this could be the nuclear bomb in the campaign. He said it could be. That was it.
4.43pm BST
16:43
Q: How do you feel to have lost the title for running the most xenophobic campaign to Zac Goldsmith?
Farage says he has been demonised. He has never been a racist or xenophobic.
Q: Do you think Goldsmith’s campaign was racist?
Farage says he did not think it was the best campaign he could have run.
4.42pm BST
16:42
Farage says he went to the European parliament thinking the UK was “a square peg in a round hole”. He was happy to accept the EU, if other European countries wanted that, as long as the EU was not involved.
But the votes on the European constitution showed how the EU was willing to override the will of the people. At that point he decided the whole project was flawed.
4.40pm BST
16:40
Q: Would you push for a second referendum if Remain win narrowly?
Farage says it was hard enough to get the first one.
He says many people in the Tory party will be irreconcilable if there is a Remain vote.
But Farage says he thinks parliament would not vote for a second referendum.
He says what Stephen Kinnock, the Labour MP, said on the Today programme this week about MPs trying to ignore the results of the referendum (by using the withdrawal legislation to keep the UK in the single market) would be outrageous.
He says the Labour vote is key to the result of the referendum.
4.35pm BST
16:35
Q: How will we ensure women’s rights are protected if we leave?
Farage says he hears these arguments. But trust Britons a bit more. We do not need to be given rights by Brussels. The first parliamentary Act on women’s rights was passed in 1911. And the Equal Pay Act was passed in 1970.
The UK has led the way on rights, he says. We are the country that believes in innocent until proven guilty, habeas corpus and trial by jury.
Q: You raised concerns about attacks on women.
I didn’t, says Farage.
Q: You did.
Farage says people should not just read the headline above his interview. This is an issue in some European countries.
UPDATE: This is from Britain Stronger in Europe.
But @Nigel_Farage you have previously suggested you and @vote_leave will get rid of worker's rights #StrongerIn #BFtownhall
Updated
at 4.37pm BST
4.32pm BST
4.32pm BST
16:32
16:32
Farage says politicians talk about the single market as if it is a good thing. In fact, it is a “big cartel that suits multinationals”.
Farage says politicians talk about the single market as if it is a good thing. In fact, it is a “big cartel that suits multinationals”.
He says it is wrong to think the UK has big influence in the UK. Since 2010, there have been 40 occasions when Britain has lost in the council of ministers.
He says it is wrong to think the UK has big influence in the UK. Since 2010, there have been 40 occasions when Britain has lost in the council of ministers.
4.30pm BST
4.30pm BST
16:30
16:30
Q: If we leave the EU, how will students be able to go and study abroad?
Q: If we leave the EU, how will students be able to go and study abroad?
Farage says Europe now seems a bit dull to students.
Farage says Europe now seems a bit dull to students.
He says he hopes Brexit will lead to Denmark leaving the EU, Austria leaving the EU, Sweden leaving the EU, and eventually just a Europe of nation states.
He says he hopes Brexit will lead to Denmark leaving the EU, Austria leaving the EU, Sweden leaving the EU, and eventually just a Europe of nation states.
4.28pm BST
4.28pm BST
16:28
16:28
Farage says the behaviour of universities in the referendum campaign has been “deplorable”. There are over 200 Monnet chairs. That means they get money from the EU.
Farage says the behaviour of universities in the referendum campaign has been “deplorable”. There are over 200 Monnet chairs. That means they get money from the EU.
He says we should be encouraging as many foreign students as possible to come to the UK to study here.
He says we should be encouraging as many foreign students as possible to come to the UK to study here.
4.25pm BST
16:25
Q: How would we make up the deficit of key workers, especially in the NHS?
Farage says it is shameful that two thirds of people who want to train as nurser are turned away.
And then we should have work permits for foreigners coming here to work, as 200 other countries in the world do.
4.22pm BST
16:22
Farage says he wants to have a united country where race and religion is deemed irrelevant.
Q: You should come to Brighton. People are integrated.
Farage says it is different in places like Oldham or Peterborough, which are not integrated.
Q: What is the plan if we leave?
Farage says the plan is simple. We vote to leave and get rid of “dishonest Dave”. We need a Brexit prime minister. Then we go to Brussels and negotiate a “sensible, amicable divorce”. Even if we don’t get a trade deal, it will still be better than what we have.
And if people don’t like the government, they can vote to change it.
4.15pm BST
16:15
Q: People have been kicked out of your party for saying racist things. Don’t say it is just people coming back from the party after one too many drinks.
Farage says people who have said racist or anti-semitic things have been kicked out. In Labour people get re-admitted.
4.14pm BST
16:14
Nigel Farage at BuzzFeed
Nigel Farage is taking part in the BuzzFeed event now.
He says there is a simple choice: do we want to run our own affairs or not. He says got the big M - momentum.
Q: I am embarrassed to tell people I am voting Leave, because people think you are a racist. Are you to blame for that?
Farage says he is guilty of making this an issue. When he went on Question Time in 2000, he was the first person in 20 years on that programme to say Britain should leave the EU.
He says in any walk of life, if you take on the establishment, people will abuse you. In 2014, when his party started to rise in the poll, there was an attempt to depict them as racist. None of that was true.
The party has been demonised.
Q: There is a long record of Ukip people saying abusive things.
Farage says in 20014, there were cases of Ukip people coming home from the pub and posting abusive things online. Over the same period there were 200 people from other parties found guilty of serious crimes.
4.07pm BST
16:07
According to the Sun, the Tory MP Bernard Jenkin has written to David Cameron saying that he is appalled that Cameron allowed Amber Rudd, the energy secretary, to attack Boris Johnson in the way that she did in last night’s debate. It is taken for granted that she would not have said what she did if it had not been approved by Cameron and George Osborne. (ConservativeHome’s Paul Goodman says today: “The voice was the voice of the climate change secretary. But the hands looked like those of friends of the chancellor.”)
Jenkin told the Sun:
This was a sanctioned, personal vilification supported by the prime minister. I am absolutely appalled.
There have been one or two silly things said by both sides in this campaign.
But it’s absolutely suicidal for the party to behave like this, for the leader of our party to behave like this. It is not what most Conservatives are.
3.54pm BST
15:54
And here are some of the highlights from Nicola Sturgeon’s appearance at the BuzzFeed town hall event. At the end she had 61% of the studio audience liking her, and 36% opposed.
"I don't like negative campaigning," Sturgeon says on accusations of Project Fear, adding: "I don't think it treats people with respect."
"Don't take the decision about the future of the UK on a grievance or your thoughts about the SNP or me," replies Sturgeon.
Nicola Sturgeon says it's "possible" that Scotland could keep England inside the EU against it's will.
"I'm not going to stand here and start to criticise other politicians," says Sturgeon after being asked if Cameron is mishandling Remain.
Invited to describe herself as a "unionist" in the EU referendum, Nicola Sturgeon instead plumps for "Europhile"... pic.twitter.com/KnpsPirIjX
"If there's a Leave vote we would not automatically get more powers in the Scottish parliament," says Sturgeon.
Sturgeon asked if she'll be supporting England at the Euros? "I hope all the home nations will do really well." ⚽️ pic.twitter.com/zwPOz8bmXT
3.45pm BST
15:45
On the World at One the Labour MP Clive Lewis said that politicians and the public needed to have an “honest conversation” about immigration. He acknowledged that people had legitimate concerns about it, but he said it was also important to recognise that Europe needed immigrants because of its ageing population.
And he criticised some papers and politicians for whipping up hysteria on the subject.
This is the analogy I would use; if a politician and a newspaper collude and say ‘let’s publicly say an asteroid is going to hit the planet’, do you blame the person who goes out running around saying ‘the end of the world is nigh’? No, you don’t, it’s not their fault, it’s the people that are lying to people, covering their backsides, as to what the issues of immigration are. The reason people are concerned about immigration is partly because of the hysteria that some politicians and newspapers are whipping up on this.
3.29pm BST
15:29
And here is Lord Mandelson, the former Labour business secretary and Britain Stronger in Europe campaigner, commenting on what Wolfgang Schäuble said. (See 3.25pm.) Mandelsons said:
This finally knocks on the head the Leave campaign’s claim that we can leave the EU and still enjoy the benefits of the single market. We cannot leave the club and continue to use its facilities.
Being outside the single market would be a hammer blow to the UK economy. Our future trade will be hit and our manufacturing sector, which relies on the single market’s free movement of goods and people, will be at risk.
This is the cold reality of Brexit that the British people must face. If we leave we lose the economic gains of being the world’s largest free trade zone, putting jobs and livelihoods at risk.
3.25pm BST
15:25
Vote Leave has responded to Wolfgang Schäuble, the German finance minister, saying that the UK would not have access to the single market if it left the EU. This is from Matthew Elliott, its chief executive.
There is no question about it, Britain will still have access to the Single Market after we vote Leave. It would be perverse of the eurozone to try to create artificial barriers - and would do far more damage to them than to anyone else.
Elliott is using a different defintion of access.
Vote Leave has said it does not want the UK to be a full member of the single market. It does not want the UK to have to follow all the single market’s regulatory rules and allow free movement of labour, as EU member states that are full members of the single market have to do. But it still expects the UK to be able to sell goods into the single market.
And Schäuble is not saying the UK would not be able to sell goods to Germany. He is saying the EU would not want to allow the UK to retain all the advantages of being a full member of the single market. Vote Leave does not want this, but Schäuble’s comment may have been prompted by reports that, if the UK does vote to leave, MPs may try to insist on retaining full single market membership as the legislation for withdrawal is going through parliament.
3.04pm BST
15:04
Ashdown says Leave campaign has approach to sovereignty that is 100 years out of date
Paddy Ashdown, the former Lib Dem leader, gave a speech on the EU referendum this morning. Here are two extracts.
The Brexit case is 100 years out of date. They think that sovereignty still lies, unchanged, where it lay at the height of the British Empire, safely cocooned and protected in the institutions of Whitehall. They say they want to take their country back – that’s right – back 100 years to an age which is long past and has little relevance to global the realities of today ...
Here is the truth the Brexiteers refuse to accept: There is now more power to affect the lives of British citizens, lying outside our national institutions and beyond our borders, than lying within them.
We used to be able to divide politics between domestic and foreign. This is now no longer possible.
There is no domestic question that can today be resolved within our domestic institutions alone; not crime, not health, not jobs, not security, not prosperity, not the environment, not transport, not agriculture, not fisheries, not immigration. Good outcomes on all these - and many more - are best secured – indeed only secured – by working effectively, not just nationally, but internationally with those who share our interest.
We act as though immigration is a new challenge. It is not. Vast movements of population ahead of war and pestilence and plague has always been with us. Churchill called us the “mongrel nation”, made up as we are of Angles and Saxons and Danes and Vikings and Huguenots and Jews and Ugandan Asians and West Indians and the new wave of migrants from eastern Europe. And that is what has shaped our national character.
And by the way London is the mongrel city – which is one of the reasons why it is the world’s only successful mega-city.
Migration is not a new fact. It is an age old one.
Mass movement of people is the new normal – the new global strategic challenge of our time. It is not temporary and it is not time limited and, with global warming, it is only going to increase ...
We will either deal with the new global challenge of migration as a European region together, or we will not deal with it. And we will either deal with it using our humanity, or we will be forced to do it with barbed wire and truncheons – and that way comes, not to more peace, but more conflict.
And by the way, given that this is now not just a European challenge, but also a global one, my guess is that it will not be long before we will realise that we need some new global architecture for coping with migration. And if the EU was wise, we should be pushing for that too.
Here are some fundamental facts about immigration, which we have so far shied away from saying in this debate.
There is no wave of immigration into this country that we have not benefited from economically and culturally.
