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Banking inquiry: Westpac has 'no plans' to change political donations policy – live Banking inquiry: Westpac has 'no plans' to change political donations policy – live
(35 minutes later)
7.08am BST
07:08
Conclusion of bank hearings and questions remain over tribunal proposal
So concludes three days of hearings into the four big banks. It’s possible the Coalition-controlled committee will ask bank executives to return. Labor has demanded further hearings but will demand a royal commission either way.
Here’s what we learned in the afternoon session on Westpac:
Further in the bowels of the blog I wrote a summary of the morning’s hearing with NAB executives.
My colleague Gareth Hutchens wrote a report that NAB’s chief executive, Andrew Thorburn, faced more aggressive and disciplined questioning but refused to describe the sacking of 43 financial planners as a “systemic” issue.
These past three days have been my first spin on the live blog. I’ve lost my B-plates. Thanks for joining us.
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Westpac evidence reveals lack of clarity on bank tribunal proposal
The main take-away from the afternoon session wasn’t about Westpac at all, but rather the lack of clarity around the proposed bank tribunal.
The idea originated in a report in May from a Senate committee inquiry into customer loans that recommended the banking industry be required to fund a tribunal if financial institutions did not appoint independent experts to consider restitution for customers who feel they have been ripped-off.
Liberal MP Warren Entsch latched on to the idea as an alternative to a royal commission, arguing the tribunal should be able to grant victims compensation for bank scandals.
In her questioning this afternoon Liberal MP Julia Banks suggested the tribunal would be “under the auspices of Asic” and have “strong interventionist powers” to set benchmarks on sales, and mandate ethics and unconscious bias training. Not a word on compensation, but all kinds of other regulatory powers.
Westpac’s chief executive, Brian Hartzer, revealed the heads of the banks had discussed the tribunal with the treasurer in April or May, before the election, then added it had been discussed only “in passing”.
I’ve never had a long conversation about the tribunal. I’m not really aware of the details of what is recommended.
Hartzer said he didn’t want more prescriptive regulation but supported the idea if it was the last step in the complaints framework:
There may be occasions that people say they’re still not happy. It’s entirely appropriate to look at that appeal framework. I don’t have a strong view about whether that’s a tribunal or something else.
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Thursday’s hearing has just concluded, I’ll bring you a summary of the afternoon shortly.Thursday’s hearing has just concluded, I’ll bring you a summary of the afternoon shortly.
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Brian Hartzer has clarified his earlier comment that a bank tribunal was discussed in a meeting in April or May with the treasurer, by adding the tribunal was mentioned only “in passing”.Brian Hartzer has clarified his earlier comment that a bank tribunal was discussed in a meeting in April or May with the treasurer, by adding the tribunal was mentioned only “in passing”.
Labor’s Matt Thistlethwaite asks about whether “avoiding a royal commission” was also discussed.Labor’s Matt Thistlethwaite asks about whether “avoiding a royal commission” was also discussed.
Hartzer said Westpac accepts whatever regulatory response the government chooses but would prefer to make changes now rather than wait for a royal commission and then make change. He said that was the essence of what he advised the treasurer.Hartzer said Westpac accepts whatever regulatory response the government chooses but would prefer to make changes now rather than wait for a royal commission and then make change. He said that was the essence of what he advised the treasurer.
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The deputy chairman, Matt Thistlethwaite, has asked about Asic action against Westpac over alleged manipulation of the bank bill swap rate and what review it ordered.The deputy chairman, Matt Thistlethwaite, has asked about Asic action against Westpac over alleged manipulation of the bank bill swap rate and what review it ordered.
Westpac’s chief executive, Brian Hartzer, said there was an external investigation:Westpac’s chief executive, Brian Hartzer, said there was an external investigation:
The conclusion of our investigation is that our people have not done anything wrong, and that’s why we’re defending that matter in court.The conclusion of our investigation is that our people have not done anything wrong, and that’s why we’re defending that matter in court.
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Liberal MP Trevor Evans asks about small business lending rates and whether they will remain high.Liberal MP Trevor Evans asks about small business lending rates and whether they will remain high.
Brian Hartzer blames increased funding costs relative to the cash rate, requirements to hold more capital for small business loans, and the need to “price risk through the cycle”.Brian Hartzer blames increased funding costs relative to the cash rate, requirements to hold more capital for small business loans, and the need to “price risk through the cycle”.
When you look at small business lending over time, those loans are more likely to go bad, [and] you lose more when they go bad.When you look at small business lending over time, those loans are more likely to go bad, [and] you lose more when they go bad.
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Nationals MP Kevin Hogan has given a spiel against the deposit guarantee offered by Labor for the second time today.Nationals MP Kevin Hogan has given a spiel against the deposit guarantee offered by Labor for the second time today.
He argues it cost big banks 70 basis points to buy into the guarantee compared with 150 for smaller banks, although as the scheme’s official page makes clear that’s because big banks have a better credit rating.He argues it cost big banks 70 basis points to buy into the guarantee compared with 150 for smaller banks, although as the scheme’s official page makes clear that’s because big banks have a better credit rating.
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MP Craig Kelly has asked if a consumer with $500 of credit card debt misses a $25 minimum monthly repayment, how much they will be charged? $9. He then wants to know how much the lateness actually costs the bank, and the Westpac execs take it on notice.MP Craig Kelly has asked if a consumer with $500 of credit card debt misses a $25 minimum monthly repayment, how much they will be charged? $9. He then wants to know how much the lateness actually costs the bank, and the Westpac execs take it on notice.
Westpac’s Brian Hartzer says the bank has “no plans” to increase its fees now ANZ has won a high court case in defence of a $35 late payment fee. Hartzer says the bank has “no plans” to increase its fees now ANZ has won a high court case in defence of a $35 late payment fee.
Kelly wants to know how high fees could go if $35 isn’t an unlawful penalty, Hartzer said it’s a “hypothetical” because Westpac had decreased its fee to $9. Kelly wants to know how high fees could go if $35 isn’t an unlawful penalty. Hartzer said it’s a “hypothetical” because Westpac had decreased its fee to $9.
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MP Craig Kelly has asked whether Westpac faced legal proceedings for late credit card fees.MP Craig Kelly has asked whether Westpac faced legal proceedings for late credit card fees.
Its chief financial officer, Peter King, said the proceedings were discontinued after ANZ won a similar case in the high court. He takes on notice whether the bank asked for costs in the case.Its chief financial officer, Peter King, said the proceedings were discontinued after ANZ won a similar case in the high court. He takes on notice whether the bank asked for costs in the case.
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Adam Bandt has asked about a couple who banked with Westpac for more than 20 years and had an inflated income in a loan application.Adam Bandt has asked about a couple who banked with Westpac for more than 20 years and had an inflated income in a loan application.
The chief executive, Brian Hartzer, said he could not go into detail but denied the bank was responsible for inflating their income.The chief executive, Brian Hartzer, said he could not go into detail but denied the bank was responsible for inflating their income.
We have no incentive and no desire to lend people more than they can afford.We have no incentive and no desire to lend people more than they can afford.
Asked to rule out anyone else’s incomes being altered or inflated, Hartzer said: “I can’t say it’s never happened, but not to my knowledge.”Asked to rule out anyone else’s incomes being altered or inflated, Hartzer said: “I can’t say it’s never happened, but not to my knowledge.”
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"No plans" by Westpac to change political donations policy"No plans" by Westpac to change political donations policy
Greens MP Adam Bandt has asked about $1.8m in donations in recent years by Westpac to the Labor and Liberal parties.Greens MP Adam Bandt has asked about $1.8m in donations in recent years by Westpac to the Labor and Liberal parties.
Hartzer said its policy is “open and transparent”.Hartzer said its policy is “open and transparent”.
We don’t give cash donations to political parties. We support political parties and the political process by attending conferences and the like. We disclose everything we donate fully to the [Australian Electoral Commission].We don’t give cash donations to political parties. We support political parties and the political process by attending conferences and the like. We disclose everything we donate fully to the [Australian Electoral Commission].
Asked about NAB’s answer that it wanted to avoid the perception of a conflict by stopping donations, Hartzer said it had “no plans” to change its donations policy.Asked about NAB’s answer that it wanted to avoid the perception of a conflict by stopping donations, Hartzer said it had “no plans” to change its donations policy.
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Liberal MP Scott Buchholz asked why credit card customers who never missed payments still paid interest rates up to 19%.Liberal MP Scott Buchholz asked why credit card customers who never missed payments still paid interest rates up to 19%.
Risk is assessed on a “mass basis”, Hartzer explains, because it’s not practically possible to assess individual risk for each business customer.Risk is assessed on a “mass basis”, Hartzer explains, because it’s not practically possible to assess individual risk for each business customer.
He accepts Westpac could reduce credit card interest rates and still be profitable.He accepts Westpac could reduce credit card interest rates and still be profitable.
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Brian Hartzer has come up with the magic number of what an ATM transaction costs: 20 cents. He doesn’t have to hand a figure for how much a transaction by a customer from another bank costs.Brian Hartzer has come up with the magic number of what an ATM transaction costs: 20 cents. He doesn’t have to hand a figure for how much a transaction by a customer from another bank costs.
He said Westpac absorbed the cost of the ATM network for its customers, which explained why only customers of other banks pay a fee. The foreign fee “defrays the cost but comes nowhere near” paying for the whole network.He said Westpac absorbed the cost of the ATM network for its customers, which explained why only customers of other banks pay a fee. The foreign fee “defrays the cost but comes nowhere near” paying for the whole network.
It’s a “reasonable assumption” that the fee is higher than the marginal cost of the transaction by customers of other banks, Hartzer said.It’s a “reasonable assumption” that the fee is higher than the marginal cost of the transaction by customers of other banks, Hartzer said.
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Matt Keogh has returned to asking about the UK’s new laws requiring individual accountability of executives. He suggests senior managers are responsible for training and systems around incorrect financial advice, not just the financial planners who give it.Matt Keogh has returned to asking about the UK’s new laws requiring individual accountability of executives. He suggests senior managers are responsible for training and systems around incorrect financial advice, not just the financial planners who give it.
Westpac’s chief executive, Brian Hartzer, says risk is inherent in investing, and laws punishing innovation can have “unintended consequences”.Westpac’s chief executive, Brian Hartzer, says risk is inherent in investing, and laws punishing innovation can have “unintended consequences”.
When they’ve been poorly advised, absolutely there should be consequences. But if people feel you can’t take risk because you’ll blame me and I’ll get a criminal penalty, a normal person would be much more reticent to give advice.When they’ve been poorly advised, absolutely there should be consequences. But if people feel you can’t take risk because you’ll blame me and I’ll get a criminal penalty, a normal person would be much more reticent to give advice.
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Labor’s Matt Keogh has gone on the attack claiming no part of the $2.7m short-term incentive Brian Hartzer is paid is for “customer satisfaction”.Labor’s Matt Keogh has gone on the attack claiming no part of the $2.7m short-term incentive Brian Hartzer is paid is for “customer satisfaction”.
Hartzer said a net promoters’ score (customers’ willingness to recommend a product to others) is 10% of his score card and a number of other measures are about becoming a more service-oriented organisation such as technological innovation and people and culture.Hartzer said a net promoters’ score (customers’ willingness to recommend a product to others) is 10% of his score card and a number of other measures are about becoming a more service-oriented organisation such as technological innovation and people and culture.
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Treasurer consulted banks on tribunal before electionTreasurer consulted banks on tribunal before election
MP Matt Keogh has asked about consultation on a banking tribunal and when the idea was first raised.MP Matt Keogh has asked about consultation on a banking tribunal and when the idea was first raised.
Hartzer said there was a meeting in April or May with the heads of the banks and the treasurer about resolution of complaints and the tribunal was raised there.Hartzer said there was a meeting in April or May with the heads of the banks and the treasurer about resolution of complaints and the tribunal was raised there.
I’ve never had a long conversation about the tribunal. I’m not really aware of the details of what is recommended.I’ve never had a long conversation about the tribunal. I’m not really aware of the details of what is recommended.
He supported consideration of gaps in accountability and improving the consumer complaints processes.He supported consideration of gaps in accountability and improving the consumer complaints processes.
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Brian Hartzer said Westpac had unconscious bias training for the top four layers of its management and would “continue to look at everything we can from the customer interface point of view to make sure women are very welcome”.Brian Hartzer said Westpac had unconscious bias training for the top four layers of its management and would “continue to look at everything we can from the customer interface point of view to make sure women are very welcome”.
MP Julia Banks suggests the tribunal could mandate ethics and unconscious bias training to “provide benefits to consumers ... and ensure all employees across the bank are appropriately trained”.MP Julia Banks suggests the tribunal could mandate ethics and unconscious bias training to “provide benefits to consumers ... and ensure all employees across the bank are appropriately trained”.
Hartzer has concerns with “more prescriptive regulation”.Hartzer has concerns with “more prescriptive regulation”.
The more you prescribe what the bank does the more there are unintended consequences that have to be thought through carefully.The more you prescribe what the bank does the more there are unintended consequences that have to be thought through carefully.
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