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You can find the current article at its original source at https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/live/2016/oct/18/malcolm-turnbull-rejects-amnesty-claim-that-detention-akin-to-torture-politics-live
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| Malcolm Turnbull says there is 'no chance' of Coalition watering down gun laws – question time live | Malcolm Turnbull says there is 'no chance' of Coalition watering down gun laws – question time live |
| (35 minutes later) | |
| 5.04am BST | |
| 05:04 | |
| Labor suspends standing orders on the gun laws issue. | |
| The house votes... | |
| 5.03am BST | |
| 05:03 | |
| Every government question apart from the one to Joyce on water has been on the CFMEU, the ABCC and Labor links ... | |
| The immigration minister, Peter Dutton, goes furthest. | |
| The fact is Labor renewed the visa of a bikie in this country who was known to be involved in organised crime. There are links between the Labor party, the CFMEU and outlawed motorcycle gangs. That is indisputable. These people are accepting money from the CFMEU in the millions of dollars. The CFMEU supports the bikies because the bikies provide the muscle on building sites. These facts can’t be disputed. | |
| Updated | |
| at 5.07am BST | |
| 5.00am BST | |
| 05:00 | |
| Shorten to Turnbull: Can the prime minister confirm that he has spoken directly to Senator Leyonhjelm about the ban on the lever-action Adler shotgun? Has he seen reports that Senator Leyonhjelm has told Sky News that the prime minister was willing to discuss the regulation of the Adler gun in connection with support for the ABCC legislation? | |
| Unlike the honourable member who just asked me this question, I respect all of the senators. | |
| Turnbull goes through the history again and then ends with this: | |
| Senator Leyonhjelm has a view about what that classification should be and he is entitled to that view. He’s entitled to express it to me or to any other minister. But what he has not proposed, at least not in my hearing, is any weakening of the National Firearms Agreement as it stands. He has a view as to the manner in which it should be strengthened. He is entitled to have that view as indeed are other shooter organisations and their representatives. The government, of course, listens to those views as I’m sure justice ministers and premiers in other jurisdictions do as well. | |
| Updated | |
| at 5.08am BST | |
| 4.51am BST | |
| 04:51 | |
| How to win friends and influence people, starring Ian Macdonald | |
| Paul Karp | |
| Senator Ian Macdonald is grilling the Australian Human Rights Commission’s Gillian Triggs about her commentary that politicians are “ill-informed”. | |
| MacDonald has accidentally called Triggs “senator” several times, then, as an aside, remarks that it is because she would fit into the category of the “ill-informed”. | |
| Labor senators ask him to withdraw the remark but he refuses. When Labor senators argue Macdonald is badgering the witness, he replied: | |
| It’s typical of the left that when you’re trying to question somebody they object at every opportunity.” | |
| Greens senator Nick McKim moves for the committee to suspend, prompting attorney general George Brandis to remark it is a “standard technique of the left”. | |
| The motion is put to a vote and it is tied three-all. MacDonald uses his casting vote to continue the hearing. | |
| Updated | |
| at 5.08am BST | |
| 4.47am BST | |
| 04:47 | |
| Shorten to Keenan: I refer to the Minister’s previous answer where he explained that the only influence for lifting the ban on rapid fire lever action shotguns after 12 months was the negotiation with the States. Why then was he offering or his office was offering the sunset clause in return to secure votes in the Senate on completely unrelated legislation? | |
| Same answer. | |
| 4.42am BST | |
| 04:42 | |
| Labor gets down to the Keenan-Leyonhjelm deal. | |
| Labor to Keenan: I refer to this email from your office to Senator Leyonhjelm’s office dated 12 August 2015 at 10.36am that confirms the minister and minister Dutton on behalf of the Coalition government agree to insert a sunset clause on the banning of particular lever action shotguns in exchange for Senator Leyonhjelm’s support in the Senate. Does the minister consider it acceptable that he was prepared to trade off John Howard’s gun laws in order to secure support for legislation in the Senate? | |
| Keenan: | |
| The government has always been 100% clear in our position that we will restrict their import until we get an agreement with the States about where they were to be classified. I would very much like that conversation was concluded within those 12 months but it wasn’t so we’ve subsequently extended the ban until we reach that agreement. It is very straightforward. | |
| Updated | |
| at 5.09am BST | |
| 4.37am BST | |
| 04:37 | |
| Dixer to Barnaby Joyce: What is the government doing to ensure all Australians, including the great Australians in Mallee, that they have access to reliable water supply? Is the minister aware of any threats to the delivery of reliable water infrastructure? | |
| 4.33am BST | 4.33am BST |
| 04:33 | 04:33 |
| Andrew Wilkie, independent, asks Turnbull: | Andrew Wilkie, independent, asks Turnbull: |
| Ray Williams was a peacekeeper in Beirut during the civil war. He was shot at and shelled but had no weapon, body armour or support. He suffers PTSD. Remarkably Ray has been fighting for 18 years to have his service recognised as warlike. Yes, there is a review into service ... but it has been going for years and will likely outlive the veterans. Prime minister, do you agree everyone injured or wounded in the ADF, wherever they’ve served, should be given the same high level of support and will you stop the bureaucratic nonsense, order the UNSO review finalised and help veterans like Ray Williams? | |
| Turnbull says the review will be completed later this year. | Turnbull says the review will be completed later this year. |
| I want to reassure the honourable member and all veterans that the Department of Veterans’ Affairs will continue to look after them. That is our obligation. | |
| But the PM does not answer the question about the substance – that is will all veterans be treated the same in terms of support. | |
| Updated | |
| at 4.43am BST | |
| 4.30am BST | 4.30am BST |
| 04:30 | 04:30 |
| Labor to the justice minister, Michael Keenan: Since coming to office in 2013, has the minister ever offered to weaken Australia’s gun laws for support in the Senate? | |
| Just pause there so that I can give you another quote from David Leyonhjelm: | Just pause there so that I can give you another quote from David Leyonhjelm: |
| When I protested, I was told by minister Keenan we never intended to allow that into the country anyway. So in other words the agreement was made in bad faith. So I have made my displeasure known to the government ever since August this year. It has been two months since I was aware that they had no intention of sticking by the agreement. I have whinged at them on occasional ... They are well aware of my displeasure. And now, all of a sudden, they want my support on the ABCC bill. | |
| In answer to the Labor question, Keenan goes through the timeline Turnbull did earlier. | In answer to the Labor question, Keenan goes through the timeline Turnbull did earlier. |
| But he does not touch on the earlier deal with Leyonhjelm. | But he does not touch on the earlier deal with Leyonhjelm. |
| Updated | |
| at 4.45am BST | |
| 4.23am BST | 4.23am BST |
| 04:23 | 04:23 |
| Shorten to Turnbull: Since coming to office in 2013, has the Coalition government or any of its ministers offered or agreed to weaken Australia’s gun laws in return for support in the Senate? | |
| Labor is trying to get to the deal with Abbott. | Labor is trying to get to the deal with Abbott. |
| Which is why Turnbull repeats his earlier answer and says: | Which is why Turnbull repeats his earlier answer and says: |
| I can speak for myself. I have not been asked – no, I have not been asked and I don’t believe – I am not aware of any minister being asked to weaken the National Firearms Agreement. | |
| Updated | |
| at 4.46am BST | |
| 4.20am BST | 4.20am BST |
| 04:20 | 04:20 |
| More Turnbull on guns. I give you a large quote because it is important to know the history. | More Turnbull on guns. I give you a large quote because it is important to know the history. |
| Under the National Firearms Agreement, honourable members should be aware lever-action shotguns are listed as Category A, which makes them subject to the regulations we have around firearms, readily able to be acquired by people who conform with the necessary regulations. | |
| Last year ... there was a proposal to import a large number of lever-action shotguns, the Adler shotguns. What that meant was that, in the views of many law enforcement officials, the 1996 National Firearms Agreement, John Howard’s gun laws if you like, had not kept up with technology. | |
| There was a need for the Council of Australian Police Ministers, justice ministers, the law, crime and community safety council to consider this matter and the commonwealth has sought for them to reach consensus and reclassify these lever-action guns. | |
| Because there had been a failure to reach that consensus, the government imposed a ban on importing lever-action shotguns of more than five rounds. So that was not designed to weaken or vary John Howard’s gun laws. | |
| It was to hold the ring and prevent the lever-action guns of that capacity to be imported at all. That ban had a 12-month duration. When it came up for expiry, it was renewed. The minister is working hard to ensure his counterparts in the states agree on a reclassification of these guns. | |
| Updated | Updated |
| at 4.48am BST | |
| 4.15am BST | 4.15am BST |
| 04:15 | 04:15 |
| Turnbull rules out watering down Howard gun laws | Turnbull rules out watering down Howard gun laws |
| Shorten to Turnbull: This morning the prime minister was asked what should be the easiest question a Liberal or Labor prime minister is ever expected to answer. Given the prime minister refused to give a direct answer, I ask again: Will the prime minister rule out weakening John Howard’s gun laws as a part of horse trading in the Senate? | |
| This is a much stronger statement from Turnbull than this morning. | This is a much stronger statement from Turnbull than this morning. |
| There is no prospect, no chance of my government ... weakening, watering down John Howard’s gun laws. And I might say there is no proposal being made to do so. | There is no prospect, no chance of my government ... weakening, watering down John Howard’s gun laws. And I might say there is no proposal being made to do so. |
| Updated | Updated |
| at 4.48am BST | |
| 4.11am BST | 4.11am BST |
| 04:11 | 04:11 |
| Malcolm Turnbull thanks the defence forces as does Bill Shorten as he begins his statement. | Malcolm Turnbull thanks the defence forces as does Bill Shorten as he begins his statement. |
| Shorten: | Shorten: |
| Retaking Mosul may not be achieved quickly and victory will not come easy to the Iraqi military or the Iraqi people but, for the sake of all the people suffering and dying at the hands after this hateful extremism, it must be done. Restoring the territorial integrity of Iraq is vital and the rights of its diverse population. It is equally important the Western world plays its part in building the infrastructure of peace. | |
| Updated | |
| at 4.48am BST | |
| 4.06am BST | 4.06am BST |
| 04:06 | 04:06 |
| The first statement from the prime minister is on the progress of the war against Daesh or Isil on the eve of the battle for Mosul. | The first statement from the prime minister is on the progress of the war against Daesh or Isil on the eve of the battle for Mosul. |
| Turnbull: | Turnbull: |
| This will be a terrible battle to recapture Mosul. Mr Speaker, the defeat of Daesh is critical for Iraq, for the region and for Australia. From Daesh-controlled territory in Iraq and Syria, this Islamist terrorist network has directed and inspired attacks in Australia and around the world...taking back Mosul and the destruction of Daesh’s so-called caliphate is a military and strategic imperative. But let me be very clear. It will not mark the end of this conflict. There will be a need to establish order and maintain stability. Tasks which could be even more direct and protracted than the recapture of the city. | This will be a terrible battle to recapture Mosul. Mr Speaker, the defeat of Daesh is critical for Iraq, for the region and for Australia. From Daesh-controlled territory in Iraq and Syria, this Islamist terrorist network has directed and inspired attacks in Australia and around the world...taking back Mosul and the destruction of Daesh’s so-called caliphate is a military and strategic imperative. But let me be very clear. It will not mark the end of this conflict. There will be a need to establish order and maintain stability. Tasks which could be even more direct and protracted than the recapture of the city. |
| 4.03am BST | 4.03am BST |
| 04:03 | 04:03 |
| The United Nations special rapporteur Michel Forst has delivered a report of preliminary findings about Australia’s treatment of defenders of human rights. | The United Nations special rapporteur Michel Forst has delivered a report of preliminary findings about Australia’s treatment of defenders of human rights. |
| Before my colleague Paul Karp provides a full report on its findings, here’s one tidbit suggesting those consulted were no fans attorney-general George Brandis’s decision to appoint Tim Wilson to the Australian Human Rights Commission: | Before my colleague Paul Karp provides a full report on its findings, here’s one tidbit suggesting those consulted were no fans attorney-general George Brandis’s decision to appoint Tim Wilson to the Australian Human Rights Commission: |
| I have also noted with concerns the direct appointment of a commissioner by the attorney-general without any prior advertisement, transparency, or consultation with the parliament, contrary to the provisions required by the Paris principles which questions the attempts of the government to take control of its human rights institution.” | I have also noted with concerns the direct appointment of a commissioner by the attorney-general without any prior advertisement, transparency, or consultation with the parliament, contrary to the provisions required by the Paris principles which questions the attempts of the government to take control of its human rights institution.” |
| 3.59am BST | 3.59am BST |
| 03:59 | 03:59 |
| Leyonhjelm has released letters and complained the Turnbull government has now dudded him on the Abbott government’s deal. He reads out a government email to him: | Leyonhjelm has released letters and complained the Turnbull government has now dudded him on the Abbott government’s deal. He reads out a government email to him: |
| We confirm ministers Dutton and minister Keenan have agreed the government will amend the limited imports regulation to insert a sunset clause which banned the lever action short guns importation with a magazine capacity of more than five rounds. The effect of the sunset clause would be that 12 months after this amendment comes into effect, the ban would automatically cease to be in place. | We confirm ministers Dutton and minister Keenan have agreed the government will amend the limited imports regulation to insert a sunset clause which banned the lever action short guns importation with a magazine capacity of more than five rounds. The effect of the sunset clause would be that 12 months after this amendment comes into effect, the ban would automatically cease to be in place. |
| We also confirm the government commitment to ongoing consultation between minister Keenan and a wide range of key stakeholders...in return David Leyonhjelm will vote against the migration amendment strengthening biometric integrity bill 2015. Please confirm David Leyonhjelm’s agreement. That agreement was confirmed. | We also confirm the government commitment to ongoing consultation between minister Keenan and a wide range of key stakeholders...in return David Leyonhjelm will vote against the migration amendment strengthening biometric integrity bill 2015. Please confirm David Leyonhjelm’s agreement. That agreement was confirmed. |
| Q: That was an ironclad agreement? | Q: That was an ironclad agreement? |
| I treated it as an ironclad agreement. In August this year they reintroduced the ban on the seven shot Adler in contravention of this agreement, says Leyonhjelm. | I treated it as an ironclad agreement. In August this year they reintroduced the ban on the seven shot Adler in contravention of this agreement, says Leyonhjelm. |
| 3.53am BST | 3.53am BST |
| 03:53 | 03:53 |
| Aforementioned David Leyonhjelm: | Aforementioned David Leyonhjelm: |
| Q: Could you perhaps explain to people who don’t own guns why one would need a shotgun that can carry 10 bullets instead of five? What is the practical purpose? | Q: Could you perhaps explain to people who don’t own guns why one would need a shotgun that can carry 10 bullets instead of five? What is the practical purpose? |
| I am a libertarian and I don’t answer questions like that. My response to that is, why shouldn’t they have a shotgun that carries more than five rounds? | I am a libertarian and I don’t answer questions like that. My response to that is, why shouldn’t they have a shotgun that carries more than five rounds? |
| Q: What does it allow the user to do? | Q: What does it allow the user to do? |
| If you are shooting pigs, for example, which is, in my view, practical environmental management, because they are nasty, feral animals in the wild and should all be shot. They frequently have substantial litters and so if you have more than five rounds you might kill the entire litter rather than miss some and reload. Shotguns, with the magazine, are slow to reload. Having seven rounds might mean you clean up the litter and rid the country of more pigs. | If you are shooting pigs, for example, which is, in my view, practical environmental management, because they are nasty, feral animals in the wild and should all be shot. They frequently have substantial litters and so if you have more than five rounds you might kill the entire litter rather than miss some and reload. Shotguns, with the magazine, are slow to reload. Having seven rounds might mean you clean up the litter and rid the country of more pigs. |
| Updated | Updated |
| at 3.56am BST | at 3.56am BST |
| 3.47am BST | 3.47am BST |
| 03:47 | 03:47 |
| I feel the day is accelerating which I did not think was possible. | I feel the day is accelerating which I did not think was possible. |
| Thanks to the readers for #CrowdFactcheck – my new thing – for pointing out the deal that Tony Abbott did with Leyonjhelm in 2015. | Thanks to the readers for #CrowdFactcheck – my new thing – for pointing out the deal that Tony Abbott did with Leyonjhelm in 2015. |
| This was the story at the time: | This was the story at the time: |
| The federal government has agreed to allow the importation of a controversial shotgun in one year’s time, in exchange for the support of a crossbench senator on migration issues. | The federal government has agreed to allow the importation of a controversial shotgun in one year’s time, in exchange for the support of a crossbench senator on migration issues. |
| The government temporarily suspended the importation of the Adler lever-action shotgun in July, while it reviewed firearms laws in the wake of the Martin Place siege. | The government temporarily suspended the importation of the Adler lever-action shotgun in July, while it reviewed firearms laws in the wake of the Martin Place siege. |
| Gun control advocates oppose its importation because of its fast firing rate and seven-shot magazine. | Gun control advocates oppose its importation because of its fast firing rate and seven-shot magazine. |
| The government has now agreed to introduce a sunset clause, as part of a deal with NSW Liberal Democratic senator David Leyonhjelm. | The government has now agreed to introduce a sunset clause, as part of a deal with NSW Liberal Democratic senator David Leyonhjelm. |
| “These firearms are not dangerous, they aren’t used in crime, there’s nothing about them that warrants any special action,” Senator Leyonhjelm said. | “These firearms are not dangerous, they aren’t used in crime, there’s nothing about them that warrants any special action,” Senator Leyonhjelm said. |
| “Nonetheless, there are some people who don’t like guns and they see this as the next area in which they can encroach.” | “Nonetheless, there are some people who don’t like guns and they see this as the next area in which they can encroach.” |
| Updated | Updated |
| at 3.48am BST | at 3.48am BST |
| 3.35am BST | 3.35am BST |
| 03:35 | 03:35 |
| Innovation and excitement: electronic voting in the house | Innovation and excitement: electronic voting in the house |
| Katharine Murphy | Katharine Murphy |
| Meanwhile, in the Coalition party room – there are a couple of things to know. The first is both the prime minister, Malcolm Turnbull, and the deputy prime minister, Barnaby Joyce, have told colleagues the government has to make their policies more “tactile.” | Meanwhile, in the Coalition party room – there are a couple of things to know. The first is both the prime minister, Malcolm Turnbull, and the deputy prime minister, Barnaby Joyce, have told colleagues the government has to make their policies more “tactile.” |
| Yes, it does sound vaguely disturbing but I gather it means the government needs to talk about policies that have real impacts on real people. | Yes, it does sound vaguely disturbing but I gather it means the government needs to talk about policies that have real impacts on real people. |
| The other main thing to know from today is that, courtesy of a discussion in the party room kicked off by Kevin Andrews, Christopher Pyne will now bring a submission to cabinet considering introducing electronic voting in the House of Representatives. | The other main thing to know from today is that, courtesy of a discussion in the party room kicked off by Kevin Andrews, Christopher Pyne will now bring a submission to cabinet considering introducing electronic voting in the House of Representatives. |
| Government MPs were concerned that a whole lot of time gets wasted in the House during votes. There was talk of MPs being given a card that they could insert into a reader to record their presence during votes, rather than the current practice of whips counting numbers. | Government MPs were concerned that a whole lot of time gets wasted in the House during votes. There was talk of MPs being given a card that they could insert into a reader to record their presence during votes, rather than the current practice of whips counting numbers. |
| MPs would still required to be present during votes, they couldn’t just say aye or nay from their offices. I’m honestly not sure how having a card would save time if you’ve got to show up, but there it is. Apparently the foreign affairs minister, Julie Bishop, said during the conversation the Ukraine had this system, and Singapore had that system. | MPs would still required to be present during votes, they couldn’t just say aye or nay from their offices. I’m honestly not sure how having a card would save time if you’ve got to show up, but there it is. Apparently the foreign affairs minister, Julie Bishop, said during the conversation the Ukraine had this system, and Singapore had that system. |
| And so it goes. | And so it goes. |
| Updated | Updated |
| at 3.41am BST | at 3.41am BST |