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You can find the current article at its original source at https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/live/2016/oct/20/david-leyonhjelm-its-inconceivable-tony-abbott-would-not-know-about-gun-deal-politics-live

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Version 4 Version 5
David Leyonhjelm: it's inconceivable Tony Abbott would not know about gun deal – politics live David Leyonhjelm: it's inconceivable Tony Abbott would not know about gun deal – politics live
(35 minutes later)
1.11am BST
01:11
Paul Karp
Labor senators including Murray Watt are using Senate Estimates to undermine social services minister Christian Porter’s case for another round of welfare cuts.
Watt has made the point that quoting the absolute number of people on the dole is misleading, as it doesn’t account for population growth.
Social Services Department deputy secretary Serena Wilson gives him a win on this point, revealing that since 1996 there has been a decrease in those aged 16-64 receiving income support, from 24.7% to 16.6%.
Labor senators are now trying to push the point home by getting department officials to say the welfare budget is sustainable, but no dice so far.Earlier, Watt probed figures provided to Guardian Australia by the government, including the fact that 75% of Newstart recipients receive the energy supplement and two other payments.
Wilson conceded that “most of the supplements relate to particular cost or activity” (and not just getting by day to day on income support).
She said some, including the energy supplement and pharmaceutical allowance, can be very small but added the Family Tax Benefit payments “can be considerable”.
Updated
at 1.13am BST
1.09am BST
01:09
The plebiscite bill is now being debated in the house again.
Just regarding Paul Karp’s earlier post, Barnaby Joyce obviously opened the possibility of anyone in the Nats in favour of marriage equality crossing the floor.
As he says, the National party MPs do have the right to cross the floor. That is why Barnaby has crossed the floor 28 times in the early part of the career.
It was obviously not a career limiting move in Barnaby’s case but it would be a big call for Darren Chester or any other supporters of marriage equality to cross the floor on a crossbench marriage bill.
12.58am BST
00:58
DFAT says most of their contracts have expired except for the one with Clinton Health Access Initiative,CHAI told DFAT they are doing review
12.56am BST
00:56
Tony Abbott has updated his register to interests to say he is now a patron of Australians for a Constitutional Monarchy.
12.53am BST
00:53
Paul Karp
I’ve had a look back at Nationals leader, Barnaby Joyce’s, contribution in the same-sex marriage plebiscite bill debate last night in the lower house.
He said:
It is no secret that in the Nationals the majority view, but not the exclusive view, is that we believe in the current definition of marriage.
Those of a contrary view, like Darren Chester, “are to be totally respected and given the space to express their views, which we do”.
There is no one held out as an example, and everyone is allowed that space. And there are other people as well, and that is completely and utterly their right. Within the National party, more than any other party, we say, ‘If you really wish to cross the floor, you can; if you really wish to express a different view, you can; you just have to put some cogency into your reasons as to why.”
It’s unclear whether Nationals (or Liberals) will get the ability to cross the floor, given the current marriage equality bills are private members bills which the government does not have to allow a vote on. What did Joyce mean? Are Nationals free to cross the floor and force a vote?
Updated
at 1.05am BST
12.46am BST
00:46
#justsaying
pic.twitter.com/JakwL6BKgf
#jesuis?
12.33am BST12.33am BST
00:3300:33
Penny Wong has questioned Dfat on the Vietnamese government’s decision to cancel a 50th anniversary ceremony of the battle of Long Tân.Penny Wong has questioned Dfat on the Vietnamese government’s decision to cancel a 50th anniversary ceremony of the battle of Long Tân.
It happened in August this year, as we reported at the time:It happened in August this year, as we reported at the time:
The Vietnam government’s refusal to allow the veterans day commemoration at the Long Tân cross site a day before it was to take place prompted official complaints by Australia, including by its ambassador, Craig Chittick.The Vietnam government’s refusal to allow the veterans day commemoration at the Long Tân cross site a day before it was to take place prompted official complaints by Australia, including by its ambassador, Craig Chittick.
The Vietnamese have cited “deep sensitivities” over the battle as the reason for the last-minute cancellation, according to Dan Tehan, Australia’s minister for veterans affairs. It comes despite 18 months of collaboration about the event between the two governments.The Vietnamese have cited “deep sensitivities” over the battle as the reason for the last-minute cancellation, according to Dan Tehan, Australia’s minister for veterans affairs. It comes despite 18 months of collaboration about the event between the two governments.
A joint statement by Tehan and Julie Bishop, the minister for foreign affairs, said the government was “deeply disappointed at this decision, and the manner in which it was taken, so close to the commemoration taking place”.A joint statement by Tehan and Julie Bishop, the minister for foreign affairs, said the government was “deeply disappointed at this decision, and the manner in which it was taken, so close to the commemoration taking place”.
Wong has established that coordination was going on between Australia’s posts in Vietnam and the Vietnamese government.Wong has established that coordination was going on between Australia’s posts in Vietnam and the Vietnamese government.
Australian posts were organising for the ceremony about 18 months ahead of the anniversary.Australian posts were organising for the ceremony about 18 months ahead of the anniversary.
A Vietnamese minister phoned the Australian consul-general in Ho Chi Minh city on August 16 to give an “unofficial message” that the Vietnamese government was cancelling the ceremony. A Vietnamese minister phoned the Australian consul general in Ho Chi Minh city on 16 August to give an “unofficial message” that the Vietnamese government was cancelling the ceremony.
Aaaaand morning tea break in estimates.Aaaaand morning tea break in estimates.
Updated
at 1.04am BST
12.18am BST12.18am BST
00:1800:18
Political advertising and the pre-election splurge:Political advertising and the pre-election splurge:
Every voter has seen dodgy advertising in the lead up to elections by incumbent governments. The Audit Office has belled the cat on a few campaigns. Every voter has seen dodgy advertising in the lead-up to elections by incumbent governments. The Audit Office has belled the cat on a few campaigns.
Special awards go to the controversial “By Boat, No Visa” campaign Labor ran before the 2013 election.Special awards go to the controversial “By Boat, No Visa” campaign Labor ran before the 2013 election.
And the Abbott government’s higher education reform advertising campaign.And the Abbott government’s higher education reform advertising campaign.
Katharine Murphy reported this morning:Katharine Murphy reported this morning:
The Australian National Audit Office has said incumbent governments splurge on taxpayer-funded advertising in the lead-up to elections, with a clear trend established over the past five federal campaigns.The Australian National Audit Office has said incumbent governments splurge on taxpayer-funded advertising in the lead-up to elections, with a clear trend established over the past five federal campaigns.
A new report into government advertising between March 2013 and June 2015 has also determined that the federal government’s campaign advertising framework was “weaker than it could be” because of changes in the government’s internal third-party advisory processes.A new report into government advertising between March 2013 and June 2015 has also determined that the federal government’s campaign advertising framework was “weaker than it could be” because of changes in the government’s internal third-party advisory processes.
The latest audit has clearly established the trend of the pre-election splurge. “Increased expenditure has been observed prior to the last five elections,” the audit office says.The latest audit has clearly established the trend of the pre-election splurge. “Increased expenditure has been observed prior to the last five elections,” the audit office says.
“In 2013 and 2016 around $100m and $95m respectively, was spent on media placement alone in the three months leading up to the caretaker period.”“In 2013 and 2016 around $100m and $95m respectively, was spent on media placement alone in the three months leading up to the caretaker period.”
In a non-election year, the average annual spend is $186m.In a non-election year, the average annual spend is $186m.
Updated
at 1.00am BST
12.02am BST12.02am BST
00:0200:02
Double dippers beware: paid parental leave bill in da houseDouble dippers beware: paid parental leave bill in da house
Social services minister Christian Porter is introducing the Fairer Paid Parental Leave bill. This is the so-called “double dipping bill” that removes the right to claim government both a government scheme and an employer scheme. Social services minister Christian Porter is introducing the Fairer Paid Parental Leave bill. This is the so-called “double-dipping bill” that removes the right to claim government both a government scheme and an employer scheme.
The bill has been blocked previously but in April the minister said the government would press on. Paul Karp reported:The bill has been blocked previously but in April the minister said the government would press on. Paul Karp reported:
The social services minister has admitted it is unrealistic to expect parliament will pass a bill banning access to so-called paid parental leave “double-dipping” by 1 July, but confirmed it remains the government’s intention to do so.The social services minister has admitted it is unrealistic to expect parliament will pass a bill banning access to so-called paid parental leave “double-dipping” by 1 July, but confirmed it remains the government’s intention to do so.
Christian Porter also promised to address potential confusion created by a government website, which warns the changes will take effect from 1 July.Christian Porter also promised to address potential confusion created by a government website, which warns the changes will take effect from 1 July.
At the moment, parents are able to access 18 weeks’ of paid leave at the minimum wage from the federal government, worth about $11,500, and also access separate paid leave provided by their employer.At the moment, parents are able to access 18 weeks’ of paid leave at the minimum wage from the federal government, worth about $11,500, and also access separate paid leave provided by their employer.
In the 2015-16 budget the government announced plans to ban the practice of “double-dipping” from 1 July, 2016. But legislation which would prevent accessing both schemes, or limit federal government payments to a top-up of the employer’s scheme to the value of $11,500, failed to pass the Senate.In the 2015-16 budget the government announced plans to ban the practice of “double-dipping” from 1 July, 2016. But legislation which would prevent accessing both schemes, or limit federal government payments to a top-up of the employer’s scheme to the value of $11,500, failed to pass the Senate.
The bill has been amended and combines a few different measures. The bill’s explainer says:The bill has been amended and combines a few different measures. The bill’s explainer says:
In the revised package, government-funded parental leave pay will be targeted at individuals who have no employer-provided paid primary carer leave, or whose employer-provided paid primary carer leave is for a period less than 18 weeks or is paid at a rate below the full-time National Minimum Wage.In the revised package, government-funded parental leave pay will be targeted at individuals who have no employer-provided paid primary carer leave, or whose employer-provided paid primary carer leave is for a period less than 18 weeks or is paid at a rate below the full-time National Minimum Wage.
Under the new measure, parents’ access to government-funded parental leave pay will be limited according to the number of weeks of employer-provided paid primary carer leave they receive, if any.Under the new measure, parents’ access to government-funded parental leave pay will be limited according to the number of weeks of employer-provided paid primary carer leave they receive, if any.
This means that, where a person is entitled to employer-provided leave of less than 18 weeks, the government scheme will provide the residual number of weeks of government-funded parental leave pay up to the maximum period of 18 weeks.This means that, where a person is entitled to employer-provided leave of less than 18 weeks, the government scheme will provide the residual number of weeks of government-funded parental leave pay up to the maximum period of 18 weeks.
The other interesting points to note are:The other interesting points to note are:
Updated
at 1.02am BST
11.44pm BST11.44pm BST
23:4423:44
Cap executive pay? Not between consenting adultsCap executive pay? Not between consenting adults
Gareth HutchensGareth Hutchens
The heads of the Australian Prudential Regulation Authority (Apra) are facing Senate estimates this morning.The heads of the Australian Prudential Regulation Authority (Apra) are facing Senate estimates this morning.
Greens senator Peter Whish-Wilson just asked them if they would consider capping executive pay, to change the culture within Australia’s banks. The Greens senator Peter Whish-Wilson just asked them if they would consider capping executive pay, to change the culture within Australia’s banks.
Whish-Wilson is big on this.Whish-Wilson is big on this.
He’s an economist who worked years on Wall Street, before moving his family to Tasmania.He’s an economist who worked years on Wall Street, before moving his family to Tasmania.
He believes culture comes from the top in big organisations.He believes culture comes from the top in big organisations.
He’s been working up a policy for the Greens that will cap executive pay by anchoring it to the average employee’s wages in a company. He says that would be a simple way of getting rid of the bonus culture, and the sales culture, in vertically integrated businesses.He’s been working up a policy for the Greens that will cap executive pay by anchoring it to the average employee’s wages in a company. He says that would be a simple way of getting rid of the bonus culture, and the sales culture, in vertically integrated businesses.
But Apra boss Wayne Byres wasn’t enthused by the idea.But Apra boss Wayne Byres wasn’t enthused by the idea.
He said he tries not to intervene “in the affairs of consenting adults”.He said he tries not to intervene “in the affairs of consenting adults”.
UpdatedUpdated
at 11.48pm BST at 1.12am BST
11.42pm BST11.42pm BST
23:4223:42
Frances Adamson jumps in. The world is divided into six regions and the regions hold these conferences regularly to train staff, around matters like security, passports etc. For this conference the chief security officer addressed the conference.Frances Adamson jumps in. The world is divided into six regions and the regions hold these conferences regularly to train staff, around matters like security, passports etc. For this conference the chief security officer addressed the conference.
It is important to train the officers in a range of issues, given a lot of the posts are small posts and they don’t have much support.It is important to train the officers in a range of issues, given a lot of the posts are small posts and they don’t have much support.
These events have been happening for 30 years, she says.These events have been happening for 30 years, she says.
Wong asks whether it was necessary to send Australian-based staff to attend the conference. Adamson said the staff were appropriate.Wong asks whether it was necessary to send Australian-based staff to attend the conference. Adamson said the staff were appropriate.
Chair and Liberal senator Chris Back suggests:Chair and Liberal senator Chris Back suggests:
Paris is not necessarily the desired location that it was in the past ... I can assure you the hotels are empty.Paris is not necessarily the desired location that it was in the past ... I can assure you the hotels are empty.
UpdatedUpdated
at 11.44pm BSTat 11.44pm BST
11.35pm BST11.35pm BST
23:3523:35
Dfat says the corporate conference is a regular 18-month affair.Dfat says the corporate conference is a regular 18-month affair.
The total cost is not possible immediately because it comes from the budgets of many different training buckets from different departments of Dfat.The total cost is not possible immediately because it comes from the budgets of many different training buckets from different departments of Dfat.
Canberra-based staff flew business class.Canberra-based staff flew business class.
There were 46 Dfat employees in total.There were 46 Dfat employees in total.
Of those, 40 were based in the European region and six were from from contingent regions – such as south Asia and the Middle East.Of those, 40 were based in the European region and six were from from contingent regions – such as south Asia and the Middle East.
Penny Wong:Penny Wong:
So you flew people to Paris to talk about how to save money?So you flew people to Paris to talk about how to save money?
John Fisher, chief people officer of Dfat:John Fisher, chief people officer of Dfat:
We flew people to Paris to talk about how to do things better.We flew people to Paris to talk about how to do things better.
UpdatedUpdated
at 11.45pm BSTat 11.45pm BST
11.25pm BST
23:25
Labor senator Penny Wong moves to Heath Aston’s cracker story in Fairfax this morning:
The Department of Foreign Affairs and Trade spent an estimated $215,000 or more sending nearly two dozen senior bureaucrats from Canberra to Paris to attend an inhouse talkfest about ways to save money.
Fairfax Media can reveal the two day junket in September included business class return travel for all 23 Dfat officers ...
Wong asks for the costs in total as well as a breakdown but Dfat can’t provide that but may have to take it on notice.
Aston has done a bit of a cost breakdown:
According to the Qantas website, the cheapest business class “saver” ticket to Paris costs $3,800 one way, indicating the group of 23 cost at least $175,000 in airfares alone for the 48-hour jaunt.
The group stayed at the four-star Mercure Paris Centre Eiffel Tower hotel where standard rooms for mid-week business travellers start at $530 a night, according to booking websites.
Dfat would not comment on the total cost of flights, hotels and meals but using the scenario of the cheapest business class fares on offer, three nights at the Mercure and a $150 daily meal allowance, a conservative estimate of the trip’s cost would be $215,000. That figure does not include the as yet unknown cost of getting more than two dozen Europe-based diplomatic staff to Paris.
Adamson says Paris was chosen because it was a “regional hub”.
Updated
at 11.46pm BST
11.20pm BST
23:20
I'm confused: is there a foreign white paper or not?
Penny Wong has started questions to Dfat secretary Frances Adamson.
Wong is questioning on the Coalition announcement of a new white paper on foreign policy. Adamson keeps referencing a “strategy” rather than a white paper. Bishop seemed quite clear in her announcement.
From James Massola’s story on 19 August this year:
Ms Bishop told Fairfax Media that, in fact, a formal white paper would be produced and that it “will look at how to maximise our influence through our policies, but also shape the thinking of other nations. Its about strategy – our global focus and our global interests”.
Adamson says she has established a foreign policy strategy taskforce because:
We have been asked to produce a foreign policy strategy.
Updated
at 12.03am BST
11.03pm BST
23:03
Scott Morrison warns on AAA rating
Paul Karp
The Treasurer Scott Morrison has spoken to Radio National to discuss the AAA credit rating after reports the midyear budget update could be the catalyst for Australia losing the rating.
He said all three credit ratings agencies had affirmed the AAA rating since the election, although S&P had put Australia on negative watch.
Morrison said he met John Chambers, the head of the sovereign risk at S&P, in New York.
Morrison said:
He reaffirmed the point that we have a trajectory to budget balance, we have measures to achieve that – and there were no additional measures or alternative measures that were suggested to us, it’s a matter of implementing and legislating the plan that we have.
The treasurer asks why Labor is “refusing to help bring expenditure under control”.
So basically, now that Labor has supported the omnibus savings bill, Morrison is ramping up pressure to pass the rest of the government’s more contentious savings that the opposition did not agree to before the election.
Updated
at 11.23pm BST
10.59pm BST
22:59
The department of foreign affairs (Dfat) is up before estimates committees. We might see an appearance of Penny the Conqueror in that committee.
We have three bills before the house this morning which starts at 9.30am. Here are the government titles:
Updated
at 10.59pm BST
10.55pm BST
22:55
Matt Hatter has flushed us out with recommendations to improve our flagging bodies and brains.
Good morning @mpbowers. Might I also recommend these fine products, although the adhesive could be a bit uncomfortable. @gabriellechan pic.twitter.com/ihNpmIaN40
10.53pm BST
22:53
Leyonhjelm deal? "Neither here nor there", says Eric Abetz
Eric Abetz, who was leader of the government in the senate when the alleged Leyonhjelm deal was done, has said the Leyonhjelm deal was not much of an offer or compromise given the states had to decide.
He has appeared on Sky with Kieran Gilbert.
If I might say Kieran the offer of a sunset clause was not much of an offer at all or compromise from the government perspective because at all times the government did not want to fix this courtesy of a regulation but through the Coag National Firearms Agreement between the states and territories. This was a short term solution and so for somebody to say put a 12 month sunset clause on it, was neither here nor there in our thinking because we thought it was going to be resolved within 12 months.
Abetz said he can’t remember the deal but if he had of known about it he would have thought it was of “no great moment”.
He says a regulation usually would not go to cabinet.
Abetz said it was “unfortunate” if Leyonhjelm thought said deal was a great coup.
And he delivers the ol’ conspiracy versus stuff up line. Must be a stuff up, he figures.
10.35pm BST
22:35
Abbott didn’t know? Inconceivable.
10.31pm BST
22:31
Census shutdown cost $30m
Estimates continue for a final day. Last night we learned of the cost of the census clusterduck.
From our friends at AAP:
The chaos surrounding the first online census which resulted in the website being shut down and thousands of people unable to access it on the night will cost taxpayers about $30m.
The Australian Bureau of Statistics told a Senate estimates hearing on Wednesday night the 40-hour outage meant the expected $100m saving from moving the census online was now more likely to be about $70m.
“We have to date probably incurred additional costs of around $20m ... and we anticipate possibly spending another $10m,” chief statistician David Kalisch said.
Updated
at 10.32pm BST
10.20pm BST
22:20
"I certainly want Malcolm Turnbull to be the best possible PM throughout this term," says @TonyAbbottMHR #abc730 #auspol pic.twitter.com/9SXZhr7evX
10.11pm BST
22:11
Good morning blogans,
Here we go, down the hill, one ski, no poles, as Paul Keating would say.
Today is Thursday all day, which means it is the last sitting day.
Tony Abbott was on 7.30 last night. Katharine Murphy did a wrap, reporting Abbott’s view that a mass casualty event had been avoided due to the gun laws.
Abbott also said there was no deal – as far as he was concerned – with David Leyonhjelm, even though the senator has released all the emails that suggests there was a deal. Must have been a ministerial staffer, Abbott said, but no deals from me or my office.
There were no deals, no deals.
In case you missed it last night, here is the snippet from 7.30.
Tony Abbott on whether there was a deal with Senator David Leyonhjelm over the Adler gun ban. #abc730 #auspol pic.twitter.com/WQE4OlR3oo
After Abbott’s interview, Leyonhjelm is out this morning disputing Abbott’s version of events.
Leyonhjelm makes the entirely logical point that a government regulation would not have been introduced on the say so of staffers.
He told Michael Brissenden on ABC AM:
If all of that occurred without the prime minister’s personal knowledge, that would be understandable. There is an awful lot of regulations that are done but it is inconceivable that his office wouldn’t have known about it.
Brissenden:
Q: Abbott also said that this sort of sunset clause is common in such regulations and you were just being told how these things work. Did you misunderstand what was being offered?
Leyonhjelm:
He is wrong about that. There are no sunset clauses in most regulations. We look at regulations all the time. I moved to disallow a few of them. There is no such thing as an automatic sunset clause in regulations. That is just false. In order to implement the deal that I had with the minister that we negotiated, they had to actually bring in a specific regulation, which they did.
Q: You looked at it and thought this was a deal, yes?
Yes, they wanted my vote on a particular amendment to a bill, an unrelated bill. In exchange for that, we agreed that they would implement a sunset clause on the ban on the import of the seven shot lever-action shotgun.
Q: What did you say when that deal never materialised that you thought you had?
That happened in August this year. I had a phone call from Michael Keenan, the justice minister who said, “We are reimposing the import ban on the seven shot lever action.”
I said, “You can’t do that. The sunset clause is about to kick in. “It was a week before the 12 months was up and it was about to kick in so the ban would be lifted. We did a deal. You are renegotiating on the deal. His answer was, “We never intended to allow it in anyway.” In other words, they were intending to do me over.
Q: Has it hardened since what happened this week?
Well, it has made it a bit more awkward. I am still 50/50. I am prepared to vote against the ABCC. I make no bones about that. I am prepared to vote against it. There are some bad aspects about that bill. Its purpose is admirable.
OK that’s it. Let’s crack on. I am @gabriellechan and @mpbowers is just basting himself liberally with a can of Start Ya Bastard. I will explain.
Updated
at 10.31pm BST