This article is from the source 'guardian' and was first published or seen on . It last changed over 40 days ago and won't be checked again for changes.

You can find the current article at its original source at https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/live/2016/nov/08/plebiscite-bill-fails-politics-live-penny-wong-george-brandis

The article has changed 18 times. There is an RSS feed of changes available.

Version 6 Version 7
Gillian Triggs open to overhaul of section 18C of Racial Discrimination Act – politics live Bill Shorten says Turnbull refusing to discuss asylum seeker options – politics live
(35 minutes later)
1.24am GMT
01:24
There are a couple of points around costings regarding Labor’s policies on superannuation and backpackers tax.
Bill Shorten was asked about superannuation.
Q: You went to the election with a Budget saving on superannuation of$ 3bn. You have announced a policy today that is a $4.5bn revenue increase. There is a $1.5bn difference between the policy you took to the election and the one you’re outlining today. Why the difference?
Of course there is changes. Now the government has had to change a lot of its policies...You are saying that even if the government changes everything it does, we have to be static and not respond at all to the changing circumstances brought by a promised break in government. If the government put up its policies that it was said before the election, maybe I could see some of what you’re saying then.
Shorten was also asked about the cost of potentially dropping the proposed backpackers tax from 32.5% (not yet implemented) to the existing bill of 19% to Labor’s proposal of 10.5%. Is some of the superannuation savings going to cover the hole from the backpacker tax?
Your question assumes that the government will stick to their latest position of 19%, doesn’t it?
1.08am GMT
01:08
Peter Dutton is introducing the legislation for a lifetime travel ban now.
Updated
at 1.09am GMT
1.08am GMT
01:08
Xenophon says hold your horses, Peter Dutton, no deal as yet on lifetime ban
Katharine Murphy
I’ve just had a quick word to Nick Xenophon about whether he will support the government’s ban on asylum seekers entering the country – given that the immigration minister, Peter Dutton, has said a couple of times now that it doesn’t matter what Labor does on this issue, he has the numbers on the crossbench.
Right now, I’m not certain that he does. Xenophon says he has told the government the NXT bloc will look at the forever ban proposal but this is a “conscience issue” for his parliamentarians. By this he means the NXT bloc may split on this issue. In any case, they are not yet set in stone about which way to go. Xenophon is sounding relaxed about his people voting in different ways on this proposal.
In terms of Labor’s decision this morning to reject the proposal, here’s a couple of quick analytical thoughts.
It’s been obvious for a little while that the government’s drive-by attacks on Labor on the boats don’t resonate politically quite as much as they used to. It could be because the boats have stopped, voters are no longer so fixated on unauthorised arrivals making their way south.
This trajectory did happen during the Howard years, voters were fixated on the problem (aided by a government telling them constantly it was a problem), but once the “problem” was “fixed”, it was actually an electoral plus for Kevin Rudd in 2007, when he went to the election promising to wind back the punitive “Pacific solution”.
So perhaps it’s just a case of the politics being moderately less toxic. Labor is certainly less worried than it used to be about standing up to the government on border protection, and the new shadow immigration spokesman, Shayne Neumann, has set quite a different tone in the portfolio to his predecessor, Richard Marles.
But I also think there was no way on God’s earth that the left faction would have supported this latest policy foray by the government. I suspect Shorten, the leadership group, and the shadow cabinet knew that. It would have been fraught if Shorten had insisted on exercising a bit of “me too-ism” on the government’s proposal. Hence today’s result. Labor says nope, nope, nope.
Updated
at 1.14am GMT
12.56am GMT
00:56
On the backpacker tax, Bill Shorten wants us to wait for Chris Bowen, the shadow treasurer, who has a press conference coming up shortly. But in general terms, Shorten says:
They have a situation where they have taken themselves hostage, where from 1 January, they haven’t repaired their own 32 cents tax in the dollar, we will see further problems with getting backpackers to Australia. New Zealand has a system of just over 10%.
Updated
at 1.14am GMT
12.55am GMT
00:55
Bill Shorten says he takes no comfort from the lifetime ban bill having a ministerial discretion clause.
He says if the government has third-country agreements which require that particular ban, he will hear what the government says at that time.
Updated
at 1.14am GMT
12.52am GMT
00:52
Bill Shorten says he specifically asked the prime minister, “Are there discussions about third-party nations? How is that process going?”
He has refused to tell me point-blank. I have no idea how their discussions are going.
Updated
at 1.15am GMT
12.50am GMT
00:50
Labor will not try to amend the refugee bill.
Shorten:
This is rushed legislation and the government said they’re not interested in amendments, so we will vote it down.
12.48am GMT12.48am GMT
00:4800:48
Bill Shorten is asked about Labor’s various changes on its asylum seeker policies.Bill Shorten is asked about Labor’s various changes on its asylum seeker policies.
Labor’s policy, which the Liberals have subsequently adopted, is working. We believe that the people smugglers are pernicious, cynical criminals.Labor’s policy, which the Liberals have subsequently adopted, is working. We believe that the people smugglers are pernicious, cynical criminals.
I recognise that hundreds upon hundreds of people drowned making that dangerous voyage.I recognise that hundreds upon hundreds of people drowned making that dangerous voyage.
This has been a difficult issue in the Labor Party but I took the restatement of our policy to the July 2015 national conference and what we said there is we don’t want the people smugglers back in business and we will maintain strong policies to deter them. This has been a difficult issue in the Labor party but I took the restatement of our policy to the July 2015 national conference and what we said there is we don’t want the people smugglers back in business and we will maintain strong policies to deter them.
But what I don’t accept is that this government’s created an almost arbitrary equation, where it says the only way to stop people smugglers is to keep people on Manus and Nauru in seemingly indefinite detention.But what I don’t accept is that this government’s created an almost arbitrary equation, where it says the only way to stop people smugglers is to keep people on Manus and Nauru in seemingly indefinite detention.
Updated
at 1.09am GMT
12.45am GMT12.45am GMT
00:4500:45
Shayne Neumann, Labor’s immigration spokesman, said while Labor had been briefed on the issue, he saw nothing that would warrant changing.Shayne Neumann, Labor’s immigration spokesman, said while Labor had been briefed on the issue, he saw nothing that would warrant changing.
There is no credible evidence from the department in the briefing that we had that any country had sought this legislation or any requirement covered by this legislation. The government also has failed to provide us with any evidence there that they have got any arrangement spending in respect of a third party arrangement as well. There is no credible evidence from the department in the briefing that we had that any country had sought this legislation or any requirement covered by this legislation. The government also has failed to provide us with any evidence there that they have got any arrangement spending in respect of a third-party arrangement as well.
Updated
at 1.09am GMT
12.42am GMT12.42am GMT
00:4200:42
Bill Shorten is speaking now.Bill Shorten is speaking now.
He says Labor is on a unity ticket with the government to stop the people smugglers, they are not on a unity ticket to stop the tourists.He says Labor is on a unity ticket with the government to stop the people smugglers, they are not on a unity ticket to stop the tourists.
Under the laws which the government is proposing and seeking Labor’s support for, someone who is found to be a genuine refugee, who subsequently settles and becomes a Canadian or an American citizen can never even visit Australia in 30 or 40 years time, a lifetime ban on genuine refugees who become citizens of other countries from ever visiting Australia as a tourist or as a teacher or as a business person. Under the laws which the government is proposing and seeking Labor’s support for, someone who is found to be a genuine refugee, who subsequently settles and becomes a Canadian or an American citizen can never even visit Australia in 30 or 40 years’ time, a lifetime ban on genuine refugees who become citizens of other countries from ever visiting Australia as a tourist or as a teacher or as a business person.
Updated
at 1.15am GMT
12.31am GMT12.31am GMT
00:3100:31
Labor to try to amend backpacker tax from Coalition's 19% to 10.5%Labor to try to amend backpacker tax from Coalition's 19% to 10.5%
From Gareth Hutchens, Labor will amend the tax rate and they will oppose the $5 increase on the passenger movement charge paid by all people as they leave Australia. From Gareth Hutchens: Labor will amend the tax rate and it will oppose the $5 increase on the passenger movement charge paid by all people as they leave Australia.
The Coalition’s backpacker bill has passed the lower house and is sitting, waiting for the report of a Senate committee.The Coalition’s backpacker bill has passed the lower house and is sitting, waiting for the report of a Senate committee.
The report is due out tomorrow after it was delayed from yesterday.The report is due out tomorrow after it was delayed from yesterday.
Labor’s decision means Labor will try to amend the bill in the Senate.Labor’s decision means Labor will try to amend the bill in the Senate.
But the bill has to go back to the lower house for the tick off. Unless someone changes their mind in the lower house, such as a couple of stray Nats crossing the floor, any amended 10.5% tax rate would fail. But the bill has to go back to the lower house for the tick-off. Unless someone changes their mind in the lower house, such as a couple of stray Nats crossing the floor, any amended 10.5% tax rate would fail.
UpdatedUpdated
at 12.35am GMT at 1.16am GMT
12.23am GMT12.23am GMT
00:2300:23
Labor to move amendments on #backpackertax to lower tax rate from 19% to 10.5%Ping @stephanieandoLabor to move amendments on #backpackertax to lower tax rate from 19% to 10.5%Ping @stephanieando
12.16am GMT12.16am GMT
00:1600:16
Bill Shorten and the Labor immigration spokesman, Shayne Neumann, are holding a press conference on the decision to oppose the lifetime ban on refugees at 11.30am.Bill Shorten and the Labor immigration spokesman, Shayne Neumann, are holding a press conference on the decision to oppose the lifetime ban on refugees at 11.30am.
UpdatedUpdated
at 12.23am GMTat 12.23am GMT
12.15am GMT
00:15
Paul Karp
The Greens caucus has met and decided they will back Labor’s censure of the attorney general, George Brandis, on the basis he misled the Senate. Brandis claims he did consult the solicitor general but the Greens disagree with his definition of the word.
They will also push for a new select committee to consider government claims for public interest immunity, citing Brandis releasing a heavily redacted version of Gleeson’s letter to him.
The Greens also think there’s a chance they, Jacqui Lambie and others can block or amend the backpacker tax in the Senate. It could cause fireworks if the bill goes back to the lower house proposing an even lower rate of tax. Will the Nationals push for an even better deal for farmers or stick to the government’s line?
Updated
at 12.22am GMT
12.13am GMT
00:13
Scott Ryan: if anyone wants to come to me on the plebiscite ...
The government is open to talking to Jacqui Lambie and Pauline Hanson or anyone else for that matter on any future same-sex marriage plebiscite.
Scott Ryan says he's open to negotiations with crossbench in the future on same-sex plebiscite #AMAgenda https://t.co/JrrOhODbVQ
Updated
at 12.21am GMT
11.56pm GMT
23:56
Peter Dutton: no matter Labor, we have crossbench support on lifetime ban
Phil Coorey of the Fin has got his first take off the blocks:
Labor will vote against the government’s legislation to impose a lifetime ban on asylum seekers who arrived by boat after July 2013 but the government says it has the support of the Senate crossbench anyway.
As caucus met to formalise its opposition to the bill, immigration minister Peter Dutton confirmed what had long been speculated – the measures in the bill were linked to pending deals with other countries to resettle a significant number of those languishing on Nauru and Manus Island.
“We are going to land a deal,” Mr Dutton said.
Updated
at 12.07am GMT
11.47pm GMT
23:47
Gillian Triggs open to inquiry and overhaul of section 18C
Katharine Murphy
The president of the human rights commission Gillian Triggs has flagged she is open to overhauling the Racial Discrimination Act, including replacing the terms “offend” and “insult” with “vilify”.
Triggs said in an interview with the ABC on Tuesday morning she was open to the parliamentary inquiry that has been telegraphed by the prime minister and believed inserting “vilify” into the legislation would represent a strengthening of the current regime.
She also said the commission had been asking governments for the past five or six years to overhaul their statute to allow complaints to be knocked out sooner, so would welcome that procedural change.
“At the moment, once we receive a written complaint alleging a breach of anti-discrimination law, I must as president investigate and attempt to conciliate. That’s our role,” Triggs said on Tuesday.
“We would welcome an inquiry. We would welcome an attempt to moderate our statute that would make it al little easier for the commission to say these matters are coming to us and we don’t think they’ve got any real legs at all. We’ve long argued for this.”
On the parliamentary inquiry that now seems to be looming after months of agitation by government conservatives, Triggs said she was “open to seeing what the inquiry might suggest — whether the language could be clarified and in our view strengthened that enables us to support the multicultural society that we are.”
Asked specifically about replacing offend and insult with the word vilify, Triggs said: “I would see that as a strengthening, it could be a very useful thing to do.”
With the government running a procession of attacks both on her conduct as president of the commission, and the commission’s oversight of discrimination cases, Triggs also hit back at the criticisms.
She told the ABC the prime minister’s commentary after the federal circuit court’s recent dismissal of a racial discrimination complaint made against three Queensland University of Technology students was “wrong.”
Turnbull in an interview on Monday said the judge in the case had made negative reflections on the commission in the case, and he urged the organisation to reflect on whether it was acting in a way that was undermining public support for its work.
Triggs said the prime minister’s comments were factually wrong.
“The commission never prosecutes, never brings a case, never pursues any matter. Once we have declared that the parties cannot conciliate the matter we will terminate it and that was done about 15 or 16 months ago [for the QUT case],” Triggs said on Tuesday.
“So we had nothing whatever to do with the federal circuit court and indeed contrary to the prime minister’s statement, the federal district court said nothing whatever about the human rights commission or its role.”
11.43pm GMT
23:43
It would appear there are duelling tweets between Coalition and Labor party rooms.
As nothing much is happening in Canberra atm, here is a photo of the carpet from the Coalition Party Room. #auspol pic.twitter.com/TV6VbUySUj
Oh come on. We want a photo of George and Russell sharing tea and bikkies. https://t.co/ssM2x4L9i3
@JamesMcGrathLNP Coalition party room carpet leans right, Labor's leans left. This can't be a coincidence. pic.twitter.com/IRBC6Ds28r
Updated
at 11.53pm GMT
11.33pm GMT
23:33
Stand by for every government question in question time.
Today's visa legislation is a matter of national security. A test for @billshortenmp. Does he stand for strong borders?
Updated
at 11.35pm GMT
11.32pm GMT
23:32
Lyle Shelton of the Australian Christian Lobby says the death of the plebiscite “might work to secure the preservation of marriage in the long term”.
Australians have had enough of the same-sex marriage debate. After six years of relentless activism in the parliament, it should be time to move on. I think that’s what most people want – it is not a high-priority issue.
Updated
at 11.37pm GMT
11.27pm GMT
23:27
The independent senator Jacqui Lambie had dinner with Pauline Hanson last night. No halal snack packs.
They want multiple plebiscites.
I was fortunate to have dinner last night with Senator Pauline Hanson – and after our conversation I believe there’s an opportunity to put a private member’s bill before the Senate which gives the people at the next federal election – to have their say on three very important social and moral issues, Lambie says.
Updated
at 12.13am GMT
11.17pm GMT
23:17
Labor has unanimously voted to oppose a lifetime ban on refugees
Labor caucus has debated the government’s proposed lifetime travel ban for refugees currently in Manus Island and Nauru offshore detention.
Paul Karp reports that opposition leader, Bill Shorten, spoke against the bill in the party room and it will be voted down.
No amendments, no compromise - just voted down.
It’s an action in search of a problem, says one MP from the party room.
Updated
at 11.18pm GMT
11.14pm GMT
23:14
Steve Ciobo on Gillian Triggs: "there seems to be a pattern of deceptiveness"
Trade minister Steve Ciobo has doubled down on Human Rights Commission president Gillian Triggs, saying “there seems to be a pattern of deceptiveness”.
.@StevenCiobo says there seems to be a lot of deception coming from @AusHumanRights https://t.co/W4ioxrJEsC