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Michaelia Cash faces grilling over AWU raid – politics live Michaelia Cash says she has not considered resigning over leak of AWU raid – politics live
(35 minutes later)
1.13am BST
01:13
1.06am BST
01:06
Committee adjourns
As the clock runs down, Doug Cameron and Murray Watt go over the facts. Michaelia Cash restates her earlier answers.
She is now reading verbatim from a statement in front of her, after Watt asks how she can be trusted again.
She says she didn’t know and as soon as she was aware her advisor had misled her, she notified the committee.
Murray Watt says the committee needs to reconvene on this matter, as the minister has not been able to answer all the questions in front of her.
Linda Reynolds says that will be discussed in a private meeting.
The committee adjourns.
1.03am BST
01:03
Pauline Hanson asks whether this is "political witch hunt" to stop "effective minister"
The One Nation senator looks to be running interference for Michaelia Cash. Hanson asks why she introduced the ROC bill, and what she knows about leaks in parliament, bringing up the raid of the One Nation office.
Hanson: This would not be the first time we’ve been talking about a leaked to the media. This is not the first time that leaks have been made from parliament, is it?
Cash: I think, as I stated this morning, when Michael Williamson and Craig Thomson were raided, there were media present, and that was under the former Labor government.
Hanson: Were you aware that, when One Nation was raided, there was media in attendance as well?
Cash: I’m certainly aware of reporting in the media in relation to what you have referred to, the raiding of the One Nation offices.
Hanson then asks whether Cash thinks this is a now “witch hunt” from former union bosses.
Minister Cash you are a very effective minister and you have actually have put pressure on the unions, do you feel that this is a political with hunt by the former union bosses now who are actually interrogating [you over this].
The room breaks into laughter.
Cash says Hanson is correct, that the matter at hand is about whether or not donations made by the AWU when Bill Shorten was boss, were properly authorised.
Updated
at 1.08am BST
12.54am BST
00:54
Cash says she has not considered resigning
The hearing starts to get heated, as Labor turns attention to whether Michaelia Cash had considered resigning and whether the prime minister had asked it of her resignation.
She earlier said she would not apologise to Anthony Albanese, for erroneously believing he had referred to her leaking, when he had said her office.
Cameron: The discussions you had with the prime minister this morning – was your potential resignation discussed?
Cash: AsI have stated, I will not be going into the ins and outs of the discussions I had with the prime minister. I discussed this matter with the prime minister, or I had discussions with the prime minister in relation to this matter.
Cameron: Did you offer your resignation?
Cash: I’m not going to canvass the details of the discussion. I had discussions with the prime minister in relation to this matter.
Ian Macdonald begins to interrupt. He is ignored.
Cameron: Minister, have you considered resigning, because of these terrible positions you find yourself in?
Cash: No, I have not.
Cameron: But you don’t rule out having discussed your resignation with the prime minister?
Cash: As I have stated, I’m not going to canvas the ins and outs of the discussions I’ve had with the prime minister, but I had discussions with the prime minister this morning.
Updated
at 12.58am BST
12.50am BST
00:50
James Paterson asks some questions clarifying who may have known of the raids.
The short answer is the ROC, the AFP, the ROC legal firm, most likely, Victoria and New South Wales police.
Updated
at 12.51am BST
12.46am BST
00:46
Murray Watt to Natalie James: I think the language here is important. I’m not accusing you of changing anything but earlier you said that he told you that he had no conversations outside the agency and you then said no communication outside the agency,just to be clear, has he ruled out telephone calls, verbal conversations, text messages,emails?
James: Yes, Senator.
Watt: All communications?
James: That’s right,Senator.
Watt: Did he have any contact with Minister Cash’s office abou tany issue yesterday?
James: I would need to take that on notice, Senator.
Labor to Michaelia Cash: Yesterday you repeatedly told us that, in resigning, your staff member told you that he had obtained this information from a media source, and we ask you whether that was a journalist or potentially a media adviser in an agency. Have you attempted to clarify that?
Cash:As I’ve stated, I’ve not yet spoken to the staff member and have not been able to undertake those inquiries.
12.43am BST
00:43
Labor establishes that the Fair Work media advisor and the remaining media advisor in Michaelia Cash’s office used to work together in Denis Napthine’s office.
Natalie James, the Fair Work Ombudsman said she didn’t know
Labor: Have you taken any steps to assert whether you’re media person could have been the source of the leak?
James: Yes, Senator.
Labor: What have you done?
James: I’ve spoken to my director of media.
Labor: What was the response from your director of media?
James: My director of media was aware that warrants were being sought, as Mr Enright described just now. He was advised this by the ROC media advisor.
Labor: When?
James: At around 12:30on the day of the searches.
Labor: 12:30,yeah?
James: He was advised that warrants had been sought. He was asked,because the ROC media advisor, being relatively new, did not yet have his remote access established, so in other words, he didn’t have a computer he was able to use to access work emails out of hours. The ROC media advisor asked the director of media would you be able to assist in the event that there are inquiries from journalists when this unfolds.
(This is important. I’m pretty tired, and haven’t double checked, but I believe that during yesterday’s hearing, it as said the ROC staff weren’t briefed until later, around mid-afternoon)
Labor: I’m asking, have you sought to a ascertain whether your media advisor, director of communications,whether he was the source of the leak?
James: Yes, senator.
Labor: What did he respond when you asked him that question?
James: He had no conversations with anyone outside of the agency about these matters until he started receiving calls after the searches were being executed from journalists wanting comment. He was attending a private appointment at this time. His responses to those journalist were that he didn’t know and he would need to get back to them.
12.35am BST12.35am BST
00:3500:35
Committee members are questioning of Registered Organisations Commission and Fair Work staff because when David De Garis resigned, he said he got the information from a “media source”. It’s a strange choice of language, which is what is leading to this line of questioning, the imputation being it was potentially a media advisor from another organisation who alerted De Garis. Committee members are questioning of Registered Organisations Commission and Fair Work staff because when David De Garis resigned, he said he got the information from a “media source”. It’s a strange choice of language, which is what is leading to this line of questioning – the imputation being it was potentially a media advisor from another organisation who alerted De Garis.
Cameron: Mr [Mark] Bielecki what is your understanding of this relationship.Cameron: Mr [Mark] Bielecki what is your understanding of this relationship.
Bielecki: Of the relationship between the ROC and the FWO. [Registered Organisations Commission/ Fair Work Ombudsman]Bielecki: Of the relationship between the ROC and the FWO. [Registered Organisations Commission/ Fair Work Ombudsman]
Cameron: Particularly around media advice.Cameron: Particularly around media advice.
Bielecki: Media advice is one of the corporate services like payroll and HR and accounting and so on that is provided by the FWO for the assistance of the ROC.Bielecki: Media advice is one of the corporate services like payroll and HR and accounting and so on that is provided by the FWO for the assistance of the ROC.
Labor: So how long has the FWO media advisor been doing work for ROC?Labor: So how long has the FWO media advisor been doing work for ROC?
Bielecki: The media advisor of the FWO?Bielecki: The media advisor of the FWO?
Labor: That’s what I said, yes.Labor: That’s what I said, yes.
Bielecki: That media has assisted from time to time, in particular, that media advisor has assisted us with hiring contract media advisors to work within the ROC and be embedded in the ROC.Bielecki: That media has assisted from time to time, in particular, that media advisor has assisted us with hiring contract media advisors to work within the ROC and be embedded in the ROC.
Labor: So you use contract media advisors as well, do you?Labor: So you use contract media advisors as well, do you?
Bielecki: We only have one and they have been contract.Bielecki: We only have one and they have been contract.
Labor: So have you taken steps to confirm who knew what about the raid before 3:30pm in your office? Have you taken steps?Labor: So have you taken steps to confirm who knew what about the raid before 3:30pm in your office? Have you taken steps?
Bielecki: No, that wasn’t my role. That was an operational matter.Bielecki: No, that wasn’t my role. That was an operational matter.
Labor: It is not your role as the commissioner to take steps when you,the ROC, is under some – there is concern that the ROC may have been the source of the leak. You have done nothing about it?Labor: It is not your role as the commissioner to take steps when you,the ROC, is under some – there is concern that the ROC may have been the source of the leak. You have done nothing about it?
Bielecki: I have been here in estimates since this issue arose.Bielecki: I have been here in estimates since this issue arose.
Murray Watt: But there are telephones?Murray Watt: But there are telephones?
Chris Enright: Perhaps I can assist.Chris Enright: Perhaps I can assist.
Labor: Mr Enright, would you like to add to that?Labor: Mr Enright, would you like to add to that?
Enright: I can assist the commissioner by indicating that I am taking those steps.Enright: I can assist the commissioner by indicating that I am taking those steps.
Labor: You are taking those steps?Labor: You are taking those steps?
Enright: YesEnright: Yes
Labor: Have you contacted the federal police about this matter?Labor: Have you contacted the federal police about this matter?
Bielecki: Not since a couple of hours ago when the minister provided the letter to the commissioner, no.Bielecki: Not since a couple of hours ago when the minister provided the letter to the commissioner, no.
Labor: But, Mr Bielecki, why haven’t you contacted the federal police to have an investigation into the role that your organisation may have had in relation to the leak?Labor: But, Mr Bielecki, why haven’t you contacted the federal police to have an investigation into the role that your organisation may have had in relation to the leak?
Bielecki: Senator, I think the evidence I gave yesterday was that the first step in this was to have discussions with members of staff and armed with those make a decision as to what the next appropriate step would be.Bielecki: Senator, I think the evidence I gave yesterday was that the first step in this was to have discussions with members of staff and armed with those make a decision as to what the next appropriate step would be.
UpdatedUpdated
at 12.40am BST at 12.41am BST
12.27am BST12.27am BST
00:2700:27
Doug Cameron and Murray Watt now turn their attention to the Registered Organisations Commission and Fair Work staff to ask what they knew about the leak – and whether any of their staff were involved.Doug Cameron and Murray Watt now turn their attention to the Registered Organisations Commission and Fair Work staff to ask what they knew about the leak – and whether any of their staff were involved.
UpdatedUpdated
at 12.29am BSTat 12.29am BST
12.25am BST12.25am BST
00:2500:25
Back in the hearing, Cash repeats that she only assured the prime minister that she had not leaked to the media.Back in the hearing, Cash repeats that she only assured the prime minister that she had not leaked to the media.
Cameron: You didn’t provide any assurance to him that no one in your office leaked?Cameron: You didn’t provide any assurance to him that no one in your office leaked?
Cash: I was there to provide an assurance that I had not briefed the media.Cash: I was there to provide an assurance that I had not briefed the media.
Cameron: You and only you. That was a very narrow question, wasn’t it?Cameron: You and only you. That was a very narrow question, wasn’t it?
Cash: That is for your interpretation. I can only tell you what occurred.Cash: That is for your interpretation. I can only tell you what occurred.
Cameron: Did you mislead the prime minister about whether your office leaked the raid to the media?Cameron: Did you mislead the prime minister about whether your office leaked the raid to the media?
Cash: No, I did not.Cash: No, I did not.
Cameron: Did you deny your office had told the media?Cameron: Did you deny your office had told the media?
Cash: Did I deny my office? As I stated, I provided an assurance to the prime minister that I had not. At the earliest opportunity we advised the prime minister’s office of my staff member’s resignation.Cash: Did I deny my office? As I stated, I provided an assurance to the prime minister that I had not. At the earliest opportunity we advised the prime minister’s office of my staff member’s resignation.
UpdatedUpdated
at 12.28am BSTat 12.28am BST
12.22am BST12.22am BST
00:2200:22
Gareth HutchensGareth Hutchens
The immigration minister, Peter Dutton, has just been on Sydney’s 2GB radio, with host Ray Hadley.The immigration minister, Peter Dutton, has just been on Sydney’s 2GB radio, with host Ray Hadley.
They talked about Michaelia Cash’s evidence to the Senate.They talked about Michaelia Cash’s evidence to the Senate.
Dutton said it was a serious offence if you deliberately mislead the Senate, but that’s not the allegation against Cash.Dutton said it was a serious offence if you deliberately mislead the Senate, but that’s not the allegation against Cash.
He said Labor was running a distraction because they don’t want the focus to be on Bill Shorten.He said Labor was running a distraction because they don’t want the focus to be on Bill Shorten.
Hadley said a key takeaway from the last 12 hours was that politicians and their staffers, if they wanted to leak to the press, shouldn’t leak to the “Left of the media.”Hadley said a key takeaway from the last 12 hours was that politicians and their staffers, if they wanted to leak to the press, shouldn’t leak to the “Left of the media.”
Peter Dutton agreed that some journalists can’t be trusted: “Well look, there are a few people who are happy to take leaks because that helps them in their job as a journalist, and then they turn around and bite the hand that feeds them,” he said.Peter Dutton agreed that some journalists can’t be trusted: “Well look, there are a few people who are happy to take leaks because that helps them in their job as a journalist, and then they turn around and bite the hand that feeds them,” he said.
“There’s not a lot of purity in some of these journalists, but anyway, I’ll let you comment on that.”“There’s not a lot of purity in some of these journalists, but anyway, I’ll let you comment on that.”
Hadley chuckled at that, and then said: “I’m always astounded by, you know: “How dare you impugn our integrity we’ll never reveal sources’.”Hadley chuckled at that, and then said: “I’m always astounded by, you know: “How dare you impugn our integrity we’ll never reveal sources’.”
“Someone beat Usain Bolt in rushing from wherever they were to [Labor senator] Doug Cameron’s office to say: ‘Uncle Doug, you need to know this before you go to question Michaelia Cash,’” he said.“Someone beat Usain Bolt in rushing from wherever they were to [Labor senator] Doug Cameron’s office to say: ‘Uncle Doug, you need to know this before you go to question Michaelia Cash,’” he said.
“So you’ve gotta be careful about who you leak to I suppose.”“So you’ve gotta be careful about who you leak to I suppose.”
UpdatedUpdated
at 12.27am BSTat 12.27am BST
12.20am BST12.20am BST
00:2000:20
Doug Cameron and Murray Watt go over the day’s events again yesterday, particularly the afternoon tea break (which would have been another opportunity for the staffer to reveal his role).Doug Cameron and Murray Watt go over the day’s events again yesterday, particularly the afternoon tea break (which would have been another opportunity for the staffer to reveal his role).
Cameron: Who in your office did you speak with during the afternoon tea break?Cameron: Who in your office did you speak with during the afternoon tea break?
Cash: I could not tell you Senator Cameron. Again, I have a number of things that I am responsible for. I answer all sorts of questions from my staff. Normally the first question is: “Would you like another coffee?” The answer to that is normally, “Yes” so there is a very, very good chance that is the question that I answered when I walked in, would I like another coffee.Cash: I could not tell you Senator Cameron. Again, I have a number of things that I am responsible for. I answer all sorts of questions from my staff. Normally the first question is: “Would you like another coffee?” The answer to that is normally, “Yes” so there is a very, very good chance that is the question that I answered when I walked in, would I like another coffee.
Cameron: That’s unbelievable.Cameron: That’s unbelievable.
Watt: This point about your media advisor and their phone ... I’ve seen the mobile phone number that is on the signature block for your media advisors’ emails and it is one phone number. I understand again, Adam Gartrell, a journalist, says he spoke with your media advisor very briefly at 8:17pm using “the only mobile number I have for him, his media phone”, but you are assuring us that your advisor does not currently have possession of this phone, this work phone?Watt: This point about your media advisor and their phone ... I’ve seen the mobile phone number that is on the signature block for your media advisors’ emails and it is one phone number. I understand again, Adam Gartrell, a journalist, says he spoke with your media advisor very briefly at 8:17pm using “the only mobile number I have for him, his media phone”, but you are assuring us that your advisor does not currently have possession of this phone, this work phone?
Cash: That is my understanding, yes. At 8:17pm last night, if you recall, I was actually in here.Cash: That is my understanding, yes. At 8:17pm last night, if you recall, I was actually in here.
UpdatedUpdated
at 12.23am BSTat 12.23am BST
12.17am BST12.17am BST
00:1700:17
After a thrilling discussion of the bill’s progression, Doug Cameron picks up the questioning again.After a thrilling discussion of the bill’s progression, Doug Cameron picks up the questioning again.
Cameron: Minister, can you confirm that your staff member, or any of your staff had no contact with any person in the PMO about what they knew including tipping off journalists?Cameron: Minister, can you confirm that your staff member, or any of your staff had no contact with any person in the PMO about what they knew including tipping off journalists?
Cash: Senator Cameron, I have been unable to obviously speak to the relevant staff member and I have been unable to undertake those inquiries but again I can only tell you what I knew at the time. I sought assurances from my staff. They provided me with those assurances.Cash: Senator Cameron, I have been unable to obviously speak to the relevant staff member and I have been unable to undertake those inquiries but again I can only tell you what I knew at the time. I sought assurances from my staff. They provided me with those assurances.
But, chair, can I just indulge for one moment. I want to quote Senator Wong in relation to a similar issue. People can decide whether they believe me or believe the attorney general but basically she states: “I was not aware.” She then states: “I absolutely accept it was unwise for my staff member to engage in that discussion. I accept that and I have said that publicly.”But, chair, can I just indulge for one moment. I want to quote Senator Wong in relation to a similar issue. People can decide whether they believe me or believe the attorney general but basically she states: “I was not aware.” She then states: “I absolutely accept it was unwise for my staff member to engage in that discussion. I accept that and I have said that publicly.”
Our man in the room, Mike Bowers reports that Ian Macdonald mutters “did her staff resign?” Macdonald is now madly scribbling on paper with a pencil.Our man in the room, Mike Bowers reports that Ian Macdonald mutters “did her staff resign?” Macdonald is now madly scribbling on paper with a pencil.
Cameron: So, minister,do you ordinarily call your staff on their personal phones?Cameron: So, minister,do you ordinarily call your staff on their personal phones?
Cash: I couldn’t tell you. I have varying numbers in there for varying people. I wouldn’t know whether it is a work phone or a personal phone.Cash: I couldn’t tell you. I have varying numbers in there for varying people. I wouldn’t know whether it is a work phone or a personal phone.
Cameron: So have you got more than one number for all of your staff?Cameron: So have you got more than one number for all of your staff?
Cash: Not for all of them, no.Cash: Not for all of them, no.
I spoke with him very briefly at 8.17pm using the only mobile phone number I have for him - his media phone. https://t.co/BVuNpK1PywI spoke with him very briefly at 8.17pm using the only mobile phone number I have for him - his media phone. https://t.co/BVuNpK1Pyw
UpdatedUpdated
at 12.21am BSTat 12.21am BST
12.12am BST12.12am BST
00:1200:12
One Nation senator Malcolm Roberts takes the floor and breaks momentum, by asking ROC about how “the implementation of the bill is progressing”.One Nation senator Malcolm Roberts takes the floor and breaks momentum, by asking ROC about how “the implementation of the bill is progressing”.
“That’s what I came here for, to find out,” the senator who represents a party that demands transparency and honesty is all things, says.“That’s what I came here for, to find out,” the senator who represents a party that demands transparency and honesty is all things, says.
Labor senators can not contain their exasperation.Labor senators can not contain their exasperation.
Roberts asks his questions about what the bill is for, and the committee moves on.Roberts asks his questions about what the bill is for, and the committee moves on.
UpdatedUpdated
at 12.17am BSTat 12.17am BST
12.08am BST
00:08
Hinch turns to the Registered Organisations Commission:
Hinch: So ROC didn’t tell anybody in the minister’s department that they had granted a search warrant and it was under way.
Chris Enright: Correct.
Hinch: At any stage since then,have you talked to your staff? Were they involved in any leaks at all? Surely you were concerned the finger would be pointed at your department?
Enright: These issues emerged yesterday whenI was here for Senate estimates andI haven’t been back to my office. I think, as Mr Enright said yesterday,we propose to speak to our staff when we are back in the office.
Updated
at 12.16am BST
12.06am BST
00:06
Hinch again asks if Cash still thinks her staffer was brave to come forward:
Yes, I do. He obviously realised that he needed to tell me he had misled me based on the way the events folded out through the day, and he came forward. Senator Hinch, there are plenty of people in the world, but in Australia, who don’t come forward and tell the truth. Well, that is exactly right.
I’m sure you have this line of questioning with Senator Wong when she stood by – she wanted to be very clear that she did not know about what was occurring between her staff member and the New Zealand Labour party.
I can only answer on the basis of what I knew. Hindsight, Senator Hinch, is a wonderful thing, it really is, for all of us, and you can reconstruct events and slip in certain things.
I was in Estimates for the majority of yesterday, as you are aware. I asked my staff for assurances. They were provided. At the end of yesterday, during the dinner break, a staff member came forward and advised me he had misled me.”
Updated
at 12.15am BST
12.04am BST
00:04
Hinch presses a little harder:
Hinch: So you go back to your office after Senator Watt came up with this, the Buzzfeed article was out, and did you call your staff and say, who is telling the truth here?
Cash: Basically, we had discussions. One staff member was very, very distressed. And he then came to me and advised me ...
(There is an interruption again from Ian Macdonald. Mike Bowers says it sounds like he is saying: “Labor wouldn’t care about that.”)
Hinch: Did he come back to you alone and confess?
Cash: Yes, he did.
Hinch: Did he resign or did you ask for his resignation?
Cash: He walked in and said, I’m resigning my employment.
Hinch: So you have this staff member in the office with you. As you say, all your staff listen to these Estimate hearings.
Cash: I did not lie.I provided evidence to the Senate committee, based on the knowledge I had at the time.
Updated
at 12.13am BST
12.01am BST
00:01
We hear a little more of the sandwich’s role ...
Michaelia Cash tells Doug Cameron she did not remember who told her the prime minister wanted a meeting with her ahead of question time.
Senator Cameron, there were several conversations going on yesterday in relation to numerous issues. I have limited time. I also wanted to eat my sandwich, which I did.”
We move on to Senator Derryn Hinch, who opens like he is back on the radio:
Minister, during Watergate, the big question was, what did the president know and when did he know it? In your case, it is what did you know, when did you know it? You told us you had assurances from your staff in the morning what Mr Albanese had said was not true, and what had leaked from your staff. Through the day you told the commission the same thing. What made you, during the dinner break, talk to your staff again? Did you have qualms you had been misled?”
Cash responds:
No. Senator Watt raised an article that had appeared on Buzzfeed. The article stated it was known in the press gallery that my media adviser had briefed journalists, so, once the dinner break occurred, I went down to my office to discuss the article. That is what caused me to ask further questions.”
Updated
at 12.10am BST
11.58pm BST
23:58
I am watching the hearing from the office (to make it a little easier, technology-wise), while Mike Bowers is in the room. He has described the atmosphere as “pretty tense” and that Michaelia Cash, usually one of the more unflappable members of the government, is “pretty wound up”.
Groundhog Day at senate estimates Minister Cash continues this morning @GuardianAus @AmyRemeikis #polticslive pic.twitter.com/2gMg5QBVpQ
Updated
at 12.03am BST
11.56pm BST
23:56
Michaelia Cash and the toasted sandwich
We are now entering the twilight zone. Michaelia Cash is now detailing the food she ate.
Labor: You said yesterday you spoke to the prime minister before question time. That’s during the lunch break, correct?
Cash: During the lunch break of this committee.
Labor: You took your media adviser with you?
Cash: Yes, we were in discussions and walked over together.
Labor: And that was the media adviser who misled you and subsequently resigned?
Cash: That is correct.
Labor: The prime minister asked for you to come and briefing and respond to the allegations made by Mr Albanese that your office had briefed the media about the raid, correct?
Cash: No, it was in relation to whether I had briefed the media.
Labor: When was that meeting arranged? How did you get the message?
Cash: I walked from my office.
Labor: Do you meet with him before every question time?
Cash: No, I don’t. Given I had concerns about what Mr Albanese had said, given Mr Cameron had raised the issue about Mr Albanese, I cannot recall the absolute course of events. I left here. I may have had some lunch. To be honest with you ... I had a toasted sandwich sitting on my desk. I realised that time was getting away from me, and I cannot recall who said to me that I needed to go and see the prime minister to provide an assurance that I had not briefed the media. We were all in discussions. I walked into his question time briefing. I gave him the assurance, and I left to go back to my office because we were due in estimates.
Updated
at 12.01am BST
11.50pm BST
23:50
Cash says that she instructed her chief of staff, through the estimates hearing last night, and then during the break more directly, to secure her staffer’s equipment and papers after his resignation.
When asked if David De Garis “took a bullet” for other staff, Cash answers “no”.
It was this question which led to Ian Macdonald’s outburst, which Linda Reynolds had no time for. They go to meet off-camera and return. Macdonald is still in the room, but silent.
Updated
at 11.55pm BST
11.47pm BST
23:47
Before those interruptions, Cash said she tried once, at midnight, to contact De Garis. When asked why only once, she says “it was midnight”. Watt asks her how Fairfax journalist Adam Gartrell was able to contact him, and she says she doesn’t know.
“I’ve also tried to contact him this morning, and I’ve instructed my chief of staff to ascertain his wellbeing to insure that he is OK, and to come into the office this afternoon to speak to me,” Cash said.
Labor pushes her on whether anyone else in her office knew, and whether it was possible that other staffers overheard his phone calls.
Cash: It is a very small office. They have desks like in any open-plan situation.
Cameron: Have you got a close-knit staff?
Cash: I don’t understand the question.
Cameron: Are your staff close to each other, do they trust each other?
Cash: They work with each other. Whether they are friends outside work I don’t know.
Cameron: Because the staff member who resigned rang several media outlets, and it just beggars belief, it just defies credibility, that he did not share that information with his fellow staff.
Cash: I disagree with you, Senator Cameron. What he has advised me is that he did, without my knowledge, without my authorisation, and unfortunately resigned his employment.
Updated
at 11.52pm BST
11.42pm BST
23:42
The committee is now being suspended because of Ian Macdonald’s repeated interruptions.
Linda Reynolds calls a private meeting.
11.40pm BST
23:40
Labor is now attempting to ascertain whether any other staff from Cash’s office were involved in leaking the raids to the media, particularly her other media advisor. (Both senators Doug Cameron and Murray Watt are asking these questions)
Cash said she has asked, and she has been assured that they were not involved.
I asked my staff for assurances yesterday morning. They were given to me. All evidence provided to me in relation to the questions that you asked me were based on my knowledge at the time.
Following the raising of the Buzzfeed article I returned to my office, as I’m sure most of us did during the dinner break, actually to have something to eat, unsurprisingly, and it is at that time that the staff member came to me and stated he had mislead me and as I’ve provided to the Senate committee on several occasions but I will refer to it again, during the dinner break I sought further assurances from my staff and I was advised that without my knowledge one staff member in my office in the course of discussions with journalists indicated that he had received information that a raid may take place.”
Labor: So you are now confident that no other staff members were involved?
Cash: I have again sought assurances from my staff and it is this staff member who came forward.
Labor: That staff member came forward but are you now confident that no other staff member was involved?
Cash: As I’ve stated, I have asked my staff members for assurances. They have provided me with those assurances but in relation to this particular staff member, yes, he came forward during the dinner break and he advised me of what he had done and he resigned his employment as a result of it.
Labor: You have two media advisors, are you confident that your other media advisor had no involvement?
Cash: Yes, I am.
Labor: How have you come to that conclusion?
Cash: I asked him again last night to provide me with assurances and he did.
Labor: What exactly were the assurances? Again, were you aware of the raids prior to them occurring? And, did you inform any media? And he answered no to both those questions?
Cash: Correct.
Labor: You’ve said a number of times that yesterday morning you sought assurances from your staff that they had not tipped off the media about this raid before it occurred. Did you personally speak to every single one of your staff, did you personally seek those assurances?
Cash: Not every single one of my staff. As I stated, my staff are spread over varying portfolios. For example, I didn’t speak to the assistant women’s advisor. However, because they were not in the office last night, I have spoken to each individual staff member, and I asked them, were you aware of the raids prior to them occurring? And did you speak to any journalists prior to the raids? They have all responded,no.
Labor: OK. And when you obtained this assurance yesterday morning from your staff member who has resigned, you looked him in the eye, asked him those questions, and he said no?
Cash: My staff members all gave me assurances. You are now aware that one staff member came forward during the dinner break and advised me that he had misled me will stop he told me what he’d done, and he resigned his employment. As I stated, I give him credit for coming forward.
Labor: Why didn’t you ask those questions before last night?
Cash: I don’t understand the question. I’ve given evidence that I did ask those questions.
Labor: But you didn’t ask all your staff, did you?
Cash: As I stated yesterday in my evidence, I asked the relevant staff members. I didn’t, for example, ask the assistant minister advisor, I didn’t speak to the young woman who sits at my front desk, I did not speak to the young lady who takes care of my diary. However, for completeness, I have spoken to them all this morning, and the assurances they have given me in relation to my questions.
Labor: And this other media staffer - you are absolutely confident that he is telling the truth?
Cash: I can only be as confident as are the answers that are given to me. I think they understand the seriousness of what has occurred, given that my media adviser, on making his admissions, resigned his employment last night. I take the assurance is given to me as being correct. Unfortunately, as I’ve stated, a staff member came forward last night, advised me that he had misled me, and resigned his employment.
Updated
at 11.49pm BST