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Trump impeachment hearings: Sondland says 'We followed the president's orders' – live Trump impeachment hearings: Sondland says 'We followed the president's orders' – live
(32 minutes later)
The US ambassador to the EU, who has already had to revise previous testimony, could offer firsthand account of president’s role on Ukraine The US ambassador to the EU has delivered bombshell testimony that deals serious blows to Trump’s defense of his role on Ukraine
Sondland continuously clarifies that what Trump wanted through Giuliani was an announcement of investigations as distinct and separate from actual investigations.
The difference being that only one of those things can be used in a campaign video attacking Joe Biden.
Sondland recalls Zelenskiy asking in Warsaw “why don’t I have my check” or something like that.
Sondland figured that the military aid was also part of quid pro quo, he says.
Goldman: was this kind of a 2+2=4? You figured that the military aid was also part of quid pro quo?
Sondland: Yup.
Sondland says again that the announcement of investigations was more important than actual investigations:
Goldman points out that a public announcement works well as a political tool.
Now, on Sondland’s access to Trump:
Sondland says he is now aware that Trump wanted a Biden investigation.
Dan Goldman, the Democratic council, is cementing the Trump-Giuliani axis, no daylight here:
Goldman: Giuliani spoke for the president? Correct?
Sondland says he probably said Trump “doesn’t give a shit about Ukraine” but denies, per David Holmes’ (Kyiv restaurant) testimony, that he said Trump only cares about the “big stuff” ie whatever helps Trump:
Sondland confirms he told Trump on phone call at a Kyiv restaurant that Zelenskiy “loves your ass, he’ll do whatever you want”.
Sondland’s reply gets a laugh from the audience:
This inability to connect Burisma and Biden that is so hot right now among impeachment witnesses is truly difficult to credit:
Here are some preliminary reactions to Sondland’s testimony:
Sondland is detailing the quid pro quo:
That implies that Trump was not interested in fighting corruption. He was interested in a TV moment he could batter Joe Biden with.
Sondland:
Schiff is literally using the language of the central charge and Sondland is confirming it, with a caveat involving Giuliani:
That official act was conditioned on what the president wanted “as expressed by Mr Giuliani,” Sondland said.
Reminder: Trump thinks Sondland is “a really good man and great American.”
Now Sondland is talking about a phone conversation in which Trump told him there was no quid pro quo. Earlier Sondland had said he took the president at his word. Now Sondland is saying he and everyone else knew there was a clear quid pro quo.
Sondland said after “frantic emails to me and to others about the security assistance” from ambassador Bill Taylor, Sondland called Trump and asked, “what do you want from Ukraine... what do you want?”
Schiff is driving down on what the Mike Ps – Pompeo and Pence – knew and when they knew it.
Did Pompeo ever deny the connection between investigations and the White House meeting?
In a meeting with the vice-president in Warsaw, Sondland said he told Pence that he thought the military aid would not flow without the announcement of investigations.
Pence remained sphynxlike, in Sondland’s telling:
Schiff is asking Sondland to describe the “continuum of insidiousness” down which the US requests of Ukraine descended between May and September.Schiff is asking Sondland to describe the “continuum of insidiousness” down which the US requests of Ukraine descended between May and September.
It went from a request to fight corruption to requests for an announcement of investigations of Burisma and 2016.It went from a request to fight corruption to requests for an announcement of investigations of Burisma and 2016.
Sondland, like Volker, said he did not connect the “Burisma” investigation with “Biden” at the time. That’s hard to credit but also hard to disprove.Sondland, like Volker, said he did not connect the “Burisma” investigation with “Biden” at the time. That’s hard to credit but also hard to disprove.
“Biden did not come up,” Sondland says. “Today I know exactly what it means. I didn’t know at the time.”“Biden did not come up,” Sondland says. “Today I know exactly what it means. I didn’t know at the time.”
With each line of his testimony, Sondland has blown another hole in Donald Trump’s defenses. To describe the testimony as a bombshell is perhaps to underestimate its potential for damage to Trump. To attempt to describe the shock that it is Sondland delivering this message is to come up short for words.With each line of his testimony, Sondland has blown another hole in Donald Trump’s defenses. To describe the testimony as a bombshell is perhaps to underestimate its potential for damage to Trump. To attempt to describe the shock that it is Sondland delivering this message is to come up short for words.
Since the impeachment inquiry began, Trump has ranted that there was no quid pro quo with Ukraine, no conditions placed on a White House meeting, no strings on US military aid, only a desire to fight corruption in Ukraine and to pursue the truth about 2016. It is all a witch hunt, a hoax, Trump has said.Since the impeachment inquiry began, Trump has ranted that there was no quid pro quo with Ukraine, no conditions placed on a White House meeting, no strings on US military aid, only a desire to fight corruption in Ukraine and to pursue the truth about 2016. It is all a witch hunt, a hoax, Trump has said.
But every bit of it is true, and most every word from Trump’s mouth and his Twitter about it has been a lie, Sondland is testifying. There was a clear quid pro quo, repeatedly stated, and explicitly ordered by Trump through his designated agent, Rudy Giuliani.But every bit of it is true, and most every word from Trump’s mouth and his Twitter about it has been a lie, Sondland is testifying. There was a clear quid pro quo, repeatedly stated, and explicitly ordered by Trump through his designated agent, Rudy Giuliani.
Sondland is saying: he did it.Sondland is saying: he did it.
Sondland is also saying: we did it. He is quoting emails demonstrating that the plot, which secretary of state Mike Pompeo once pretended ignorance to, was well known inside the state department, National Security Council and budget office – and by vice president Mike Pence. “It was no secret,” Sondland said.Sondland is also saying: we did it. He is quoting emails demonstrating that the plot, which secretary of state Mike Pompeo once pretended ignorance to, was well known inside the state department, National Security Council and budget office – and by vice president Mike Pence. “It was no secret,” Sondland said.
Now he begins a cross-examination period sure to generate moments that will go down in US political history.Now he begins a cross-examination period sure to generate moments that will go down in US political history.
Now Sondland quotes from an email that the state department has refused to release.Now Sondland quotes from an email that the state department has refused to release.
Significant are the names CC’d – the secretary of state, secretary of energy, the acting chief of staff... all of whom have refused congressional subpoenas to testify or provide documents:Significant are the names CC’d – the secretary of state, secretary of energy, the acting chief of staff... all of whom have refused congressional subpoenas to testify or provide documents:
This testimony goes directly against Trump’s case to the extent that the only way to rebut it seems to be to attack Sondland, who definitely was not saying this stuff in his original testimony:This testimony goes directly against Trump’s case to the extent that the only way to rebut it seems to be to attack Sondland, who definitely was not saying this stuff in his original testimony:
Sondland:
Is he implying, as Volker claimed yesterday, that when he was chasing the Burisma investigations he did not know it was a “Biden” investigation?
At the top of the hearing, Devin Nunes, the top Republican on the committee, announced that Republicans were making a formal request to subpoena Hunter Biden and the whistleblower whose complaint launched the impeachment inquiry. The request, which to detractors of the Republican defense strategy looks like a transparent stunt, is most sure to be rejected by the Democratic majority.
Here’s the request:
The Republicans are in a parallel universe not only with Democrats but with the Republicans who are sitting right in front of them telling them that they carried out Trump’s orders to do exactly what Democrats have been accusing Trump of.
Sondland’s testimony continues to break in wave after wave of stunning statements contradicting previous testimony by Morrison and others that he was somehow acting alone:
Sondland was ordered by the president to take guidance from Giuliani, he testifies:
The context here is Sondland not wanting to work with Giuliani but doing so on orders.
Sondland in his opening statement is vague about what Trump told him on a 26 July phone call overheard at the restaurant in Kiev by state department aide David Holmes.
Sondland does not say “Trump asked about investigations” but he does say he would have been surprised if Trump “had not mentioned investigations”:
Sondland begins reading his statement. He will confirm that he laid out a quid pro quo of investigations for a meeting at a July White House meeting:
Sondland will say that on the day the impeachment inquiry was announced, Pompeo was still directing Ukraine envoy Kurt Volker to talk with Giuliani:
Nunes: “Ambassador Sondland, you are here today to be smeared. But you’ll make it through it.”
Does Nunes think that Republicans will be standing shoulder-to-shoulder with Sondland by the end of this?
Ranking member Devin Nunes is speaking, railing at the Democrats. Here’s more from Sondland’s opening statement:
Schiff has been delivering his opening statement. He says that Trump and Pompeo have been obstructing the investigation by withholding documents.
Sondland will use the withholding of the documents as an excuse for contradictions in his testimony:
Schiff says, “We can see why secretary Pompeo and President Trump have made such a concerted effort... to obstruct.
“They do so at their own peril”, he says, pointing out that one of the articles of impeachment against Richard Nixon was an obstruction count.