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Ken Clarke clarifies 'serious rape' remarks | Ken Clarke clarifies 'serious rape' remarks |
(40 minutes later) | |
Ken Clarke has declined to apologise after he appeared to suggest that some rapes were less serious than others. | Ken Clarke has declined to apologise after he appeared to suggest that some rapes were less serious than others. |
It followed a BBC interview about sentencing proposals in which he referred to "serious rape". | It followed a BBC interview about sentencing proposals in which he referred to "serious rape". |
The justice secretary later returned to TV studios to stress that "all rape is a serious crime" and that he had used the "wrong choice of words". | The justice secretary later returned to TV studios to stress that "all rape is a serious crime" and that he had used the "wrong choice of words". |
Labour leader Ed Miliband had said he should quit for effectively suggesting there were "other categories of rape". | Labour leader Ed Miliband had said he should quit for effectively suggesting there were "other categories of rape". |
The row began on Wednesday morning with remarks Mr Clarke gave in an interview with BBC Radio 5 live about proposals under consultation to halve jail terms for people who plead guilty early, including rapists. | |
Mr Clarke has not apologised for his remarks in general, but he has written to a victim of attempted rape, who also featured on the show, saying: "I have always believed that all rape is extremely serious, and must be treated as such. | Mr Clarke has not apologised for his remarks in general, but he has written to a victim of attempted rape, who also featured on the show, saying: "I have always believed that all rape is extremely serious, and must be treated as such. |
"I am sorry if my comments gave you any other impression or upset you." | |
'Proper punishment' | 'Proper punishment' |
At present, a defendant entering an early guilty plea can earn up to a third off their sentence. But proposals to halve sentences are outlined in a Green Paper on sentencing in England and Wales. | At present, a defendant entering an early guilty plea can earn up to a third off their sentence. But proposals to halve sentences are outlined in a Green Paper on sentencing in England and Wales. |
In an interview with Victoria Derbyshire on BBC Radio 5 live, Mr Clarke argued that pushing for an early guilty plea would stop rapists denying charges and would relieve the victim of "going through the whole ordeal again and of being called a liar" in court. | |
He dismissed suggestions rapists could be out in 15 months - calculated by halving the average sentence of five years, then allowing for the time someone would be allowed to serve on licence - as "total nonsense". | He dismissed suggestions rapists could be out in 15 months - calculated by halving the average sentence of five years, then allowing for the time someone would be allowed to serve on licence - as "total nonsense". |
On being told that the five-year figure came from the Council of Circuit Judges, Mr Clarke said: "That includes date rape, 17-year-olds having intercourse with 15 year olds... | |
"A serious rape with violence and an unwilling woman - the tariff is longer than that." | "A serious rape with violence and an unwilling woman - the tariff is longer than that." |
When BBC interviewer Victoria Derbyshire interrupted to say "Rape is rape, with respect", Mr Clarke replied: "No it's not, if an 18-year-old has sex with a 15-year-old and she's perfectly willing, that is rape. Because she is under age, she can't consent... What you and I are talking about is we are talking about a man forcibly having sex with a woman and she doesn't want to - a serious crime." | |
He also said date rapes were included in the figures adding: "Date rape can be as serious as the worst rapes but date rapes... in my very old experience of being in trials [from his time as a practising lawyer]... they do vary extraordinarily one from another, and in the end the judge has to decide on the circumstances." | He also said date rapes were included in the figures adding: "Date rape can be as serious as the worst rapes but date rapes... in my very old experience of being in trials [from his time as a practising lawyer]... they do vary extraordinarily one from another, and in the end the judge has to decide on the circumstances." |
He later admitted he had confused "date rape" with sex with a willing but underage girl. | He later admitted he had confused "date rape" with sex with a willing but underage girl. |
'Real disgrace' | 'Real disgrace' |
BBC home affairs correspondent Danny Shaw said Mr Clarke had, in any case, not been correct to suggest consensual sex with a 15-year-old would be rape - under the Sexual Offences Act 2003 children under 13 are presumed to be incapable of giving their consent to sex. Sex with a 15-year-old would amount to another sexual offence which carries a lower penalty. | |
In a separate interview with Sky News, Mr Clarke denied he was cutting sentences. He said the proposal applied to every single criminal offence, adding: "Rape has been singled out as an example mainly to add a bit of sexual excitement to the headlines." | In a separate interview with Sky News, Mr Clarke denied he was cutting sentences. He said the proposal applied to every single criminal offence, adding: "Rape has been singled out as an example mainly to add a bit of sexual excitement to the headlines." |
At Prime Minister's Questions, Mr Miliband said Mr Clarke's comments had implied there were "serious rapes and other categories of rape" adding: "The justice secretary can't speak for the women of this country when he makes comments like that." | At Prime Minister's Questions, Mr Miliband said Mr Clarke's comments had implied there were "serious rapes and other categories of rape" adding: "The justice secretary can't speak for the women of this country when he makes comments like that." |
David Cameron told MPs rape was "one of the most serious crimes that there is and it should be met with proper punishment" and the "real disgrace" was that only 6% of reported rape cases ended in a conviction. | David Cameron told MPs rape was "one of the most serious crimes that there is and it should be met with proper punishment" and the "real disgrace" was that only 6% of reported rape cases ended in a conviction. |
He said there was already a plea bargaining system in the UK and the government was only consulting on whether to extend it - and had not yet decided what crimes it should include. | |
The prime minister said he had not heard the interview but Mr Miliband told him to go back and listen to it, adding: "The justice secretary should not be in his post at the end of today." | |
Shadow home secretary Yvette Cooper said Mr Clarke "has to go if he stands by these comments because they are absolutely appalling". | Shadow home secretary Yvette Cooper said Mr Clarke "has to go if he stands by these comments because they are absolutely appalling". |
In later interviews Mr Clarke said the "most extraordinary spin" had been put on his comments and he had been responding to average sentence figures that were put to him. | In later interviews Mr Clarke said the "most extraordinary spin" had been put on his comments and he had been responding to average sentence figures that were put to him. |
But he told BBC political editor Nick Robinson: "My view is all rape is a serious crime and if I have given the impression that is not my view then that is wrong, a wrong choice of words." | But he told BBC political editor Nick Robinson: "My view is all rape is a serious crime and if I have given the impression that is not my view then that is wrong, a wrong choice of words." |
Asked if he had been ordered to apologise following the row, Mr Clarke said he had not - and he had not apologised: "I apologise if an impression has been given which is not my view and which I don't think I stated." | Asked if he had been ordered to apologise following the row, Mr Clarke said he had not - and he had not apologised: "I apologise if an impression has been given which is not my view and which I don't think I stated." |
He added: "Nobody has had to tell me anything - I have always believed from the days I was a young lawyer that rape is a very serious crime - all rape." | He added: "Nobody has had to tell me anything - I have always believed from the days I was a young lawyer that rape is a very serious crime - all rape." |
The prime minister's spokesman said it was "clearly regrettable" if anybody had been offended by Mr Clarke's comments but said the PM had confidence in him. | The prime minister's spokesman said it was "clearly regrettable" if anybody had been offended by Mr Clarke's comments but said the PM had confidence in him. |
He added there had been some misconceptions about what has been said, but added: "The prime minister has not spent the day watching Ken Clarke interviews." | |
He said both Mr Cameron and Mr Clarke had thought it important he "went out and clarified the position". |