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| Sack Ken Clarke over rape comments - Miliband | Sack Ken Clarke over rape comments - Miliband |
| (40 minutes later) | |
| Ken Clarke should be sacked as justice secretary following his remarks about rape on BBC Radio 5 live, Labour leader Ed Miliband has said. | Ken Clarke should be sacked as justice secretary following his remarks about rape on BBC Radio 5 live, Labour leader Ed Miliband has said. |
| His reference to "serious rape" during the interview about proposals to change sentencing rules have been criticised. | His reference to "serious rape" during the interview about proposals to change sentencing rules have been criticised. |
| Mr Miliband said it suggested there were "serious rapes and other categories of rape". | Mr Miliband said it suggested there were "serious rapes and other categories of rape". |
| Mr Clarke said later all rape was serious and if he gave another impression then that was "wrong". | |
| He has blamed "spin" for the row and said he had been responding to claims about the length of sentences for rape. | He has blamed "spin" for the row and said he had been responding to claims about the length of sentences for rape. |
| The row follows proposals under consultation to halve jail terms for people who plead guilty early, including rapists who on average are sentenced to five years. | The row follows proposals under consultation to halve jail terms for people who plead guilty early, including rapists who on average are sentenced to five years. |
| 'Proper punishment' | |
| At present, a defendant entering an early guilty plea can earn up to a third off their sentence. But proposals to halve sentences are outlined in a Green Paper on sentencing in England and Wales. | At present, a defendant entering an early guilty plea can earn up to a third off their sentence. But proposals to halve sentences are outlined in a Green Paper on sentencing in England and Wales. |
| At Prime Minister's Questions, Mr Miliband said Mr Clarke had suggested there were "serious rapes and other categories of rape" adding: "The justice secretary can't speak for the women of this country when he makes comments like that." | |
| David Cameron told MPs rape was "one of the most serious crimes that there is and it should be met with proper punishment" and the "real disgrace" was that only 6% of reported rape cases ended in a conviction. | David Cameron told MPs rape was "one of the most serious crimes that there is and it should be met with proper punishment" and the "real disgrace" was that only 6% of reported rape cases ended in a conviction. |
| He said there was already a plea bargaining system in the UK and the government was only consulting on whether to extend - and had not yet decided what crimes it should include. | He said there was already a plea bargaining system in the UK and the government was only consulting on whether to extend - and had not yet decided what crimes it should include. |
| The prime minister said he had not heard the interview but Mr Miliband told him to go back and listen to the interview adding: "The justice secretary should not be in his post at the end of today." | The prime minister said he had not heard the interview but Mr Miliband told him to go back and listen to the interview adding: "The justice secretary should not be in his post at the end of today." |
| 'Strongest example' | 'Strongest example' |
| Earlier Labour former Solicitor General Vera Baird QC told BBC Radio 4's Today programme the standard sentence for rape started at five years. | |
| "If you are talking about halving it to two-and-a-half years and then a person gets out halfway through their sentence on licence which is usual, then we are talking about sentences of 15 months which have no regard at all for the gravity of the offence and gives no time for rehabilitation or training," she said. | "If you are talking about halving it to two-and-a-half years and then a person gets out halfway through their sentence on licence which is usual, then we are talking about sentences of 15 months which have no regard at all for the gravity of the offence and gives no time for rehabilitation or training," she said. |
| But Mr Clarke told Victoria Derbyshire on BBC Radio 5 Live that pushing for an early guilty plea would stop rapists denying charges and would relieve the victim of "going through the whole ordeal again and of being called a liar" in court. | But Mr Clarke told Victoria Derbyshire on BBC Radio 5 Live that pushing for an early guilty plea would stop rapists denying charges and would relieve the victim of "going through the whole ordeal again and of being called a liar" in court. |
| He dismissed suggestions rapists could be out in 15 months as "total nonsense". | He dismissed suggestions rapists could be out in 15 months as "total nonsense". |
| On being told that the sentence for rape was five years on average, according to the Council of Circuit Judges, Mr Clarke said: "That includes date rape, 17-year-olds having intercourse with 15 year olds.." | On being told that the sentence for rape was five years on average, according to the Council of Circuit Judges, Mr Clarke said: "That includes date rape, 17-year-olds having intercourse with 15 year olds.." |
| "A serious rape with violence and an unwilling woman - the tariff is longer than that." | "A serious rape with violence and an unwilling woman - the tariff is longer than that." |
| When BBC interviewer Victoria Derbyshire interrupted to say "Rape is rape, with respect" Mr Clarke replied: "No it's not, if an 18-year-old has sex with a 15-year-old and she's perfectly willing, that is rape. Because she is under age, she can't consent... What you and I are talking about is we are talking about a man forcibly having sex with a woman and she doesn't want to - a serious crime." | When BBC interviewer Victoria Derbyshire interrupted to say "Rape is rape, with respect" Mr Clarke replied: "No it's not, if an 18-year-old has sex with a 15-year-old and she's perfectly willing, that is rape. Because she is under age, she can't consent... What you and I are talking about is we are talking about a man forcibly having sex with a woman and she doesn't want to - a serious crime." |
| He also said date rapes were included in the figures which could be "sometimes very confusing" adding: "Date rape can be as serious as the worst rapes but date rapes... in my very old experience of being in trials [from his time as a practising lawyer]... they do vary extraordinarily one from another, and in the end the judge has to decide on the circumstances." | He also said date rapes were included in the figures which could be "sometimes very confusing" adding: "Date rape can be as serious as the worst rapes but date rapes... in my very old experience of being in trials [from his time as a practising lawyer]... they do vary extraordinarily one from another, and in the end the judge has to decide on the circumstances." |
| 'Absolutely appalling' | 'Absolutely appalling' |
| In a separate interview with Sky News, Mr Clarke denied he was cutting sentences. He said the proposal applied to every single criminal offence, adding: "Rape has been singled out as an example mainly to add a bit of sexual excitement to the headlines." | In a separate interview with Sky News, Mr Clarke denied he was cutting sentences. He said the proposal applied to every single criminal offence, adding: "Rape has been singled out as an example mainly to add a bit of sexual excitement to the headlines." |
| Later Mr Clarke said the "most extraordinary spin" had been put on his comments and he had been responding to average sentence figures that were put to him. | Later Mr Clarke said the "most extraordinary spin" had been put on his comments and he had been responding to average sentence figures that were put to him. |
| But he told BBC political editor Nick Robinson: "My view is all rape is a serious crime and if I have given the impression that is not my view then that is wrong, a wrong choice of words." | But he told BBC political editor Nick Robinson: "My view is all rape is a serious crime and if I have given the impression that is not my view then that is wrong, a wrong choice of words." |
| He added he had used the phrase date rape "slightly inaccurately" to mean sex with a willing but underage girl. | He added he had used the phrase date rape "slightly inaccurately" to mean sex with a willing but underage girl. |
| "All rape is a serious crime and I obviously I should not have used any form of words that gave the impression my view was different because that has always been my opinion." | "All rape is a serious crime and I obviously I should not have used any form of words that gave the impression my view was different because that has always been my opinion." |
| "I apologise if an impression has been given which is not my view and which I don't think I stated." | "I apologise if an impression has been given which is not my view and which I don't think I stated." |
| Shadow home secretary Yvette Cooper said Mr Clarke "has to go if he stands by these comments because they are absolutely appalling". | Shadow home secretary Yvette Cooper said Mr Clarke "has to go if he stands by these comments because they are absolutely appalling". |