This article is from the source 'guardian' and was first published or seen on . It last changed over 40 days ago and won't be checked again for changes.
You can find the current article at its original source at https://www.theguardian.com/politics/live/2016/jun/15/sir-philip-green-questioned-by-mps-over-bhs-collapse-live-updates
The article has changed 17 times. There is an RSS feed of changes available.
| Version 4 | Version 5 |
|---|---|
| Sir Philip Green: 'stupid and idiotic' decisions made over BHS - live updates | |
| (35 minutes later) | |
| 11.38am BST | |
| 11:38 | |
| Green also suggests that he did the right thing for BHS. | |
| I could simply have put the company into administration, he argues, and addressed the pension issue that way. | |
| "If I just wanted to be a ruthless businessman we'd have taken the biz through an admin process ourselves". Would have crystallised pension | |
| And he also takes another pop at the recent press coverage: | |
| In the last four weeks, I could be a murderer for the way they write about me. | |
| 11.36am BST | |
| 11:36 | |
| Last questions before a quick break. | |
| Jeremy Quin MP asks Green whether he agrees that his failure to keep a closer eye on the BHS pension scheme was a corporate governance failure. | |
| Green doesn’t accept the charge, and then perks up when the House of Commons bells ring. Break time, he smiles. | |
| No Mr Green, that’s the bell for prayers, Frank Field explains gently. | |
| Is that for you or for me, asks the Arcadia boss. | |
| For both of us hopefully, Field murmers. | |
| Green, who looks desperate for a break, repeats that he wants everyone to know that he’s committed to finding a soltuion to the BHS pension scheme | |
| There’s nothing I’m going to tell you that you can’t go and check up.,.... I’m not going to tell you lies. | |
| That’s the third time Green has promised he’s not fibbing.... | |
| 11.28am BST | |
| 11:28 | |
| Richard Graham MP is pushing Green on Project Thor. | |
| He suggesting that the scheme was suspended once the regulator demanded more details about exactly what Arcadia would putting into the BHS scheme. | |
| And he produces an email from the chair of the BHS pension trustees, which says Green was unhappy that the regulator was “Trawling through bullshit from 10 years ago”. | |
| Graham points out that Green had originally proposed selling BHS to Dominic Chappell free of its pension liabilities. Is that because you thought Project Thor would have been executed first? | |
| Green won’t engage.... snarling: | |
| “I’m sorry, are we in the same room? I can’t deal with this” | |
| And he appeals to committee chair Frank Field to call Graham off, before repeating that he will solve the pension issue. | |
| As Green pressed on why he paused Project Thor scheme to rescue Bhs pension scheme ahead of sale to Chappell he rants abt planned new deal | |
| Green annoyed that MPs have not accepted with unmitigated gratitude his pledge to play a role in resolving the #BHS pension deficit. | |
| Graham won’t be knocked off course by Green’s antics though, referring to Dominic Chappell’s evidence from last week. | |
| He suggests that Green decided to sell BHS to Chappell for £1 to get the pension problem off his hands (once the regulator threw up hurdles to the Project Thor scheme). | |
| If you look out of the window, is the sky light or dark, asks Green sarcastically (and bafflingly). | |
| He also denies that he threatened to pull the sale if Chappell contacted the pension regulator (as Chappell claimed last week). | |
| "It is inconceivable and more importantly impossible that I could stop Chappell going to regulator" - Philip Green | |
| 11.16am BST | |
| 11:16 | |
| Sky News’ Mark Kleinman reckons Green is making a substantial commitment to his former workers... | |
| Green implies his contribution to fixing #BHS pension deficit will be well in excess of the £275m cost of paying PPF-level benefits. | |
| 11.11am BST | |
| 11:11 | |
| Green: We will solve BHS pension crisis | |
| The committee turn to Project Thor, Arcadia’s proposal to restructure the BHS pension scheme, which was suspended in 2014. | |
| Green reveals that there has been contact with the regulator in recent days, saying snidely that. | |
| The regulator made a phone call - maybe someone bought them a telephone. | |
| And Green hints that a deal is still possible to address the £571m deficit, saying “there does seem to be a light in the tunnel”. | |
| Green declares that he wants to give a reassurance to BHS’s 20,000 pensioners that he will sort the problem out. | |
| We want to find a solution for the 20,000 pensioners. | |
| Green argues that putting the scheme into the Pension Protection Fund (the PPF - the lifeboat for failed schemes) would not resolve the issue , as the schemes are quite complex, says Green. | |
| And he then pledges: | |
| But I believe it is resolvable, it is solvable. We will sort it, we will find a solution. | |
| I want to gv assurance to 20,000 pensioners that there is an idea there to sort this in a correct way says Green. Will keep fund out of PPF | |
| Q: Does that mean that pensioners would get everything they are entitled to, asks Frank Field. | |
| Green won’t make such a commitment, but repeats that his advisers are working on a solution, and it will be presented soon. | |
| [background: there are rumours that Green could set up a separate “Phoenix” fund to provide extra payments to BHS pensioners] | |
| Updated | |
| at 11.14am BST | |
| 10.58am BST | 10.58am BST |
| 10:58 | 10:58 |
| Richard Graham MP suggests that Sir Philip Green met with pensions minister Steve Webb in 2012 about reducing BHS’s pension levy -- suggesting the issue was actually on his agenda. | Richard Graham MP suggests that Sir Philip Green met with pensions minister Steve Webb in 2012 about reducing BHS’s pension levy -- suggesting the issue was actually on his agenda. |
| Green says he doesn't remember a meeting in 2012 with the then Pensions Minister, Steve Webb about reducing BHS's pension levy. | Green says he doesn't remember a meeting in 2012 with the then Pensions Minister, Steve Webb about reducing BHS's pension levy. |
| Funny how Green found time to lobby pensions minister on £2m PPF levy in 2012 while not knowing about £££m deficit in the chrome 🤔 | Funny how Green found time to lobby pensions minister on £2m PPF levy in 2012 while not knowing about £££m deficit in the chrome 🤔 |
| And then he lashes out again at Graham, demanding to know: | And then he lashes out again at Graham, demanding to know: |
| Which bit of “don’t remember” do you find difficult? | Which bit of “don’t remember” do you find difficult? |
| SNP MP Mhairi Black (who isn’t on the committee) can’t believe what she’s hearing: | SNP MP Mhairi Black (who isn’t on the committee) can’t believe what she’s hearing: |
| The arrogance and sexism coming from Philip Green is astonishing! Feel like I'm listening to Del Boy giving evidence. #BHS | The arrogance and sexism coming from Philip Green is astonishing! Feel like I'm listening to Del Boy giving evidence. #BHS |
| Green getting into argument with MP over whether he can answer question before MP finished asking it.. | Green getting into argument with MP over whether he can answer question before MP finished asking it.. |
| 10.52am BST | 10.52am BST |
| 10:52 | 10:52 |
| Green: Stupid, stupid, idiotic decisions made | Green: Stupid, stupid, idiotic decisions made |
| Conservative MP Richard Graham leads Green through the details of BHS pension deficit. | Conservative MP Richard Graham leads Green through the details of BHS pension deficit. |
| He gets him to agree that BHS was the sponsor for its pension scheme, and that the average BHS wage was £17,000, meaning a long career would deliver a pension of £8,500 per year. | He gets him to agree that BHS was the sponsor for its pension scheme, and that the average BHS wage was £17,000, meaning a long career would deliver a pension of £8,500 per year. |
| So the scheme went from a surplus when you bought it, to a deficit in 2005. | So the scheme went from a surplus when you bought it, to a deficit in 2005. |
| Then you later proposed putting £10m per year into the fund to fix the deficit - how was that decision made? | Then you later proposed putting £10m per year into the fund to fix the deficit - how was that decision made? |
| Green again claims it’s nothing to do with him, and tried to blame others (such as pension trustee chair Margaret Downes). | Green again claims it’s nothing to do with him, and tried to blame others (such as pension trustee chair Margaret Downes). |
| I don’t want to pass this to other people, but there has to be some accountability..... | I don’t want to pass this to other people, but there has to be some accountability..... |
| There have been some stupid, stupid, idiotic mistakes made. | There have been some stupid, stupid, idiotic mistakes made. |
| Richard Graham MP doing a great job on pensions.pointing out how little #BHS staff earn & how little BHS paid in. | Richard Graham MP doing a great job on pensions.pointing out how little #BHS staff earn & how little BHS paid in. |
| #BHS had 3 yr pension contribution holiday & then paid in only 4% of total pay bill, should have been 10%. | #BHS had 3 yr pension contribution holiday & then paid in only 4% of total pay bill, should have been 10%. |
| 10.44am BST | 10.44am BST |
| 10:44 | 10:44 |
| Karen Buck MP has a valiant attempt to pin Green down about the meetings he had with BHS’s pension trustees. | Karen Buck MP has a valiant attempt to pin Green down about the meetings he had with BHS’s pension trustees. |
| You can’t expect me to remember what I did eight years, ago, he insists. He suggests Buck must have been a mind-reader in a previous life if she could remember such details, and should come to work for Arcadia. | You can’t expect me to remember what I did eight years, ago, he insists. He suggests Buck must have been a mind-reader in a previous life if she could remember such details, and should come to work for Arcadia. |
| Buck points out that if she were testifying to a committee, she’d know jolly well who she’s met with. | Buck points out that if she were testifying to a committee, she’d know jolly well who she’s met with. |
| Updated | Updated |
| at 10.45am BST | at 10.45am BST |
| 10.43am BST | 10.43am BST |
| 10:43 | 10:43 |
| City analyst Louise Cooper shares the committee’s sense of disbelief: | City analyst Louise Cooper shares the committee’s sense of disbelief: |
| pension contributions are a large cost, so he should know the numbers.To claim innocence is unbelievable https://t.co/Udw92wOsPy | pension contributions are a large cost, so he should know the numbers.To claim innocence is unbelievable https://t.co/Udw92wOsPy |
| 10.38am BST | 10.38am BST |
| 10:38 | 10:38 |
| The MPs are simply not convinced that Green could have been so ignorant about the BHS pension scheme. | The MPs are simply not convinced that Green could have been so ignorant about the BHS pension scheme. |
| Iain Wright MP points out that the Arcadia chief famously once intervened to change BHS’s coat hangers, to save £400,000 per year. Would a man who did that really ignore the pensions of 11,000 staff? | Iain Wright MP points out that the Arcadia chief famously once intervened to change BHS’s coat hangers, to save £400,000 per year. Would a man who did that really ignore the pensions of 11,000 staff? |
| Green insists that no-one brought the issue to his attention, while also claiming that he’s not blaming anyone else. | Green insists that no-one brought the issue to his attention, while also claiming that he’s not blaming anyone else. |
| And he also repeats that he’s not a liar... | And he also repeats that he’s not a liar... |
| I am here, I’m happy to be accountable. I’m not a liar, I can’t tell you about things I’m not responsible. | I am here, I’m happy to be accountable. I’m not a liar, I can’t tell you about things I’m not responsible. |
| Someone was asleep at the wheel about the pension issue, he concludes. | Someone was asleep at the wheel about the pension issue, he concludes. |
| So luxury yachts have wheels? | So luxury yachts have wheels? |
| A lot of other people have got questions to answer says Green on pension. Later says "somebody, maybe it was trustees, was asleep at wheel" | A lot of other people have got questions to answer says Green on pension. Later says "somebody, maybe it was trustees, was asleep at wheel" |
| 10.35am BST | 10.35am BST |
| 10:35 | 10:35 |
| Green keeps referring to female MPs on the committee as “your lady here” – which is going down as badly as you’d expect. | Green keeps referring to female MPs on the committee as “your lady here” – which is going down as badly as you’d expect. |
| 10.32am BST | 10.32am BST |
| 10:32 | 10:32 |
| Here’s Sir Philip Green’s apology to BHS staff (delivered at the start of the hearing) | Here’s Sir Philip Green’s apology to BHS staff (delivered at the start of the hearing) |
| “There certainly (was) no intent at all on my part for anything to be like this. It didn’t need to be like this and I just want to apologise to all the BHS people who have been involved in this.” | “There certainly (was) no intent at all on my part for anything to be like this. It didn’t need to be like this and I just want to apologise to all the BHS people who have been involved in this.” |
| 10.29am BST | 10.29am BST |
| 10:29 | 10:29 |
| Green apologises for not tackling BHS pensions earlier | Green apologises for not tackling BHS pensions earlier |
| Sir Philip Green is unhappy that MPs keep interrupting him, trying to pin him down on the pension problems. | Sir Philip Green is unhappy that MPs keep interrupting him, trying to pin him down on the pension problems. |
| He insists that he simply wasn’t involved until 2012 (!) | He insists that he simply wasn’t involved until 2012 (!) |
| But we’ve been told that you’re a Napoleon of industry, explains Frank Field MP, the man in control of everything. We’re struggling to acclimatise to this new image of you... | But we’ve been told that you’re a Napoleon of industry, explains Frank Field MP, the man in control of everything. We’re struggling to acclimatise to this new image of you... |
| Green looks hurt, saying: | Green looks hurt, saying: |
| I haven’t run away, I haven’t tried to run away. | I haven’t run away, I haven’t tried to run away. |
| He hits out at the “outrageous and pretty rude media coverage” in recent months, which have created quite the wrong impression. | He hits out at the “outrageous and pretty rude media coverage” in recent months, which have created quite the wrong impression. |
| And he then issues a second apology, for the pension deficit: | And he then issues a second apology, for the pension deficit: |
| I‘m happy to apologise, I should have been involved earlier. | I‘m happy to apologise, I should have been involved earlier. |
| For whatever reason I wasn’t, but I should have been involved earlier. | For whatever reason I wasn’t, but I should have been involved earlier. |
| Green just said that between 2000 and 2012 the pension scheme "was not on my table" | Green just said that between 2000 and 2012 the pension scheme "was not on my table" |
| 10.22am BST | 10.22am BST |
| 10:22 | 10:22 |
| Green rejects criticism over pensions | Green rejects criticism over pensions |
| Onto the BHS pensions black hole.... | Onto the BHS pensions black hole.... |
| Green says that the pension deficit should have been tackled as soon as he bought the company. | Green says that the pension deficit should have been tackled as soon as he bought the company. |
| But he also argues that it’s not his fault, blaming “poor communication” on both sides. He also reveals he only spoke to the BHS pension trustees on a handful of occasions | But he also argues that it’s not his fault, blaming “poor communication” on both sides. He also reveals he only spoke to the BHS pension trustees on a handful of occasions |
| Sir Philip Green: If BHS pension trustees and auditors had spoken to us on day we bought the company, we could have fixed this mess | Sir Philip Green: If BHS pension trustees and auditors had spoken to us on day we bought the company, we could have fixed this mess |
| Green says in perfect world BHS pension should have been tackled day he bought the company.. | Green says in perfect world BHS pension should have been tackled day he bought the company.. |
| Green also tries to spread the blame around, saying a lot of money was paid to pension advisers -- £650,000 in the early days, rising to “north of £1.5m” by 2005-06. | Green also tries to spread the blame around, saying a lot of money was paid to pension advisers -- £650,000 in the early days, rising to “north of £1.5m” by 2005-06. |
| The MPs are concerned that Green doesn’t seem to have been a very caring steward of the BHS pension fund. In 2000, it had a £43m surplus, before you began taking dividends out. | The MPs are concerned that Green doesn’t seem to have been a very caring steward of the BHS pension fund. In 2000, it had a £43m surplus, before you began taking dividends out. |
| Tht’s not very fair, Green insists. “With due respect” I’ve explained that we put £750m back into the company. | Tht’s not very fair, Green insists. “With due respect” I’ve explained that we put £750m back into the company. |
| I was not a trustee of the pension fund, he insists. | I was not a trustee of the pension fund, he insists. |
| Q: But surely you are ultimately accountable for the pension fund? | Q: But surely you are ultimately accountable for the pension fund? |
| Where’s this conversation taking us, demands Green - [perhaps suspecting that his wallet is being lined up for a hit] | Where’s this conversation taking us, demands Green - [perhaps suspecting that his wallet is being lined up for a hit] |
| Updated | Updated |
| at 10.23am BST | at 10.23am BST |
| 10.14am BST | 10.14am BST |
| 10:14 | 10:14 |
| Q: Does your wife ever share the details of the accounts of her offshore property company (which owned some BHS properties)? | Q: Does your wife ever share the details of the accounts of her offshore property company (which owned some BHS properties)? |
| No, says Green, shaking his head and chewing on his spectacles. | No, says Green, shaking his head and chewing on his spectacles. |
| 10.12am BST | 10.12am BST |
| 10:12 | 10:12 |
| Q: Why didn’t the hundreds of millions you say you put into BHS do much good? | Q: Why didn’t the hundreds of millions you say you put into BHS do much good? |
| Retail is difficult, snaps Green - if it wasn’t, anyone could do it. | Retail is difficult, snaps Green - if it wasn’t, anyone could do it. |
| And “without being rude”, he suggests Fuller should give it a go sometime. | And “without being rude”, he suggests Fuller should give it a go sometime. |
| I know that I wouldn’t be any good at it, Fuller smiles back. | I know that I wouldn’t be any good at it, Fuller smiles back. |
| Green to Richard Fuller MP: "Maybe without being rude in your next career you should try retail" | Green to Richard Fuller MP: "Maybe without being rude in your next career you should try retail" |
| Richard Fuller with good response to Green: I wouldnt be any good at it, but at least I know that | Richard Fuller with good response to Green: I wouldnt be any good at it, but at least I know that |