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Debate live: Clinton and Trump face off in much-anticipated event – updates Debate: Clinton says 'race often determines too much' in policing – live coverage
(35 minutes later)
2.19am BST 2.53am BST
02:19 02:53
Trump: “she talks about solar panels.. we invested in solar panels, that was a disaster... our energy policies are a disaster... you can’t do what you’re looking to do with $20tn in debt... [Obama] has doubled it in almost eight years... seven and a half years to be semi-exact.” Clinton hits Trump for 'dire negative picture of black communities'
2.18am BST Trump says “you need better relationships between the community and police.. there’s some bad things going on.. we need law and order and we need law and order in the cities.”
02:18 Clinton is still listening. Now she speaks.
Clinton: “Donald thinks that climate change is a hoax perpetrated by the Chinese.” “I’ve heard Donald say this at his rallies, and it’s really unfortunate that he paints such a dire negative picture of black communities in our country.” “There’s a lot we should be proud of.”
Trump: I did not say that. I did not say that. I did not say that. Clinton says “stop-in-frisk was found to be unconstitutional.” She says it was not effective. “It’s just a fact that if you’re a young African American man, and you do the same thing as a young white man, you’re more likely to be charged, convicted and imprisoned...”
Clinton just continues. “We can’t just say ‘law and order’. We need to come up with a plan.”
2.17am BST 2.51am BST
02:17 02:51
Clinton: 'Donald... rooted for the housing crisis' 2.49am BST
Clinton says, “Let’s stop for a second and remember where we were eight years ago.” 02:49
She says the recession was owing to “tax policies that slashed taxes on Wall Street... in fact Donald was one of the people who rooted for the housing crisis... Trump: African Americans and Hispanics are living in hell
Trump: That’s called business, by the way. Trump says Clinton won’t say “law and order.” “We need law and order in our country.”
Clinton: 9 million people lost their jobs... The last thing we need to do is to go back to policies that failed us. She cites a nonpartisan tax study saying his plan would create a $5tn debt over ten years. Then he describes an inner-city hellscape:
2.15am BST African Americans and Hispanics are living in hell because it’s so dangerous. You walk down the street you get shot.
02:15 He says the country needs law and order. He mentions stop and frisk, says Rudy Giuliani in the audience and “it worked very well in New York.”
Trump is sniffling a lot. He’s on to Nafta. He says “secretary Clinton and others, politicians, should have been doing this for years... what’s happened to our jobs and our economy... we are $20tn, we cannot do it. Clinton is looking at him evenly.
Holt: How do you bring back American manufacturing. Holt follows up on stop-and-frisk. He says it was unconstitutional because it targets nonwhite men.
Trump: Don’t let the companies leave... “You say, fine... if you think you’re going to make... whatever you make and bring them into our country without a tax, you’re wrong.” “No you’re wrong,” Trump says. “It went before a judge who was a very against-police judge.”
Clinton is watching him respectfully, attentively. He’s repetitious. Holt: “The argument is that it causes racial profiling.”
2.14am BST Trump flatly denies the correlation.
02:14
Trump falls for it. He says his father gave him “a small amount of money” in the 1970s and he built it into buildings. He’s a bit tetchy on the inheritance issue, and on his own brilliant record as a businessman.
“Let me give you the example of Mexico,” he says, and starts talking about the Vat tax.
Does he have a sniffle? Is he sick?
2.12am BST
02:12
Clinton: 'Donald is very fortunate in his life'
“Donald is very fortunate in his life, and that’s all to his benefit... he borrowed $14m from his father, he really believes the more you help wealthy people, the better off you’ll be.”
Clinton contrasts her father’s experience dying drapery fabrics.
2.12am BST
02:12
Trump on child care: 'I think Hillary and I agree'
Now Trump. “Our jobs are fleeing the country,” he says. “They’re going to Mexico. You look at what China is doing... they’re using our country as a piggy bank to rebuild China.”
He returns to Mexico. They’re building plants. “With the United States, not so much... thousands of jobs...
As far as child care is concerned.. I think Hillary and I agree on that... but we have to stop our jobs from being stolen from us.
He returns to Mexico. Then he says “I’ll be reducing taxes tremenodously,” and that’s “going to be a job creator.”
Two minutes is tough for him?
Trade is an important issue,” Clinton says. We are 5% of the world’s population. We have to trade with the other 95%.”
She says, “The kind of plan Donald has put forth would be trickle-down economics, all over again.”
Then she tries, clumsily, a pseudo-zinger: “I call it Trumped-up trickle down economics.”
2.08am BST
02:08
Let’s begin. Achieving prosperity. Holt frames the question. There’s been six years of jobs growth and increasing incomes.
This question is for Clinton. “Why are you a better choice to create jobs to put $$ in the pockets of American workers?”
Clinton thanks the moderator and crowd. What kind of country will we be, she asks. She says she thinks about her granddaughter, who’s turning two.
“I want to invest in you. I want to invest in the future.”
“We also have to make the economy fairer,” she says.
She’s quite poised. She is speaking not quickly. Paid family leave, earned sick days, affordable child care, wealthy pay their fair share.
Finally we tonight are on the stage tonight, Donald Trump and I. Donald it’s good to be with you... you have to judge us, who can shoulder the immense, awesome responsibilities of the presidency...
2.05am BST
02:05
Here are the candidates. He’s in a blue tie, she’s in a red pantsuit. So that’s different.
They shake hands. They are both smiling ear-to-ear. 72 teeth between them.
2.04am BST
02:04
Candidates take stage
Holt begins. He announces six segments, 15 minutes long. He’ll begin each segment with identical leadoff questions. Each candidate will have two minutes to respond. They’ll go from there.
Here come the candidates.
UpdatedUpdated
at 2.05am BST at 2.54am BST
2.03am BST 2.49am BST
02:03 02:49
Go time... we’re within a minute, Holt has just informed the audience. Mona Chalabi
go time. pic.twitter.com/VBYEZpkmLo The candidates are currently discussing racial justice in America. But some voters clearly have other priorities. When Pew Research Center asked what voters consider as “very important”, treatment of racial and ethnic minorities comes tenth on the list.
2.02am BST Updated
02:02 at 2.51am BST
Can Trump clear the “adequately competent” bar? 2.46am BST
.@realDonaldTrump will pass the test of being adequately competent & will get a big boost in acceptability. https://t.co/IjwV9chPax #debates pic.twitter.com/PzJT2ToIcP 02:46
Clinton: 'race often determines too much'
Holt brings up police shootings of black men and asks about healing along lines of race and racism.
“Unfortunately, race often determines too much,” she says. Where they live, how they’re treated in the criminal justice system. “We have to restore trust between communities and the police. We have to work to make sure that our police are using the best training, the best techniques, that they’re well prepared to use force... everyone should be respected by the law and everyone should respect the law.”
She says her platform would address criminal justice reform. “And we’ve got to get guns out of the hands of people who should not have them.” She refers to the gun epidemic. “We have to tackle the plague of gun violence.”
2.44am BST
02:44
Trump says he’s opening a hotel on Pennsylvania avenue. “So if I don’t get there one way, I’ll get there another.”
Trump is ranting about the budget. We use the word ranting because his teeth are bared, he’s chopping the air with his hands and his voice is at high volume.
2.43am BST
02:43
Fact check: tax plans
Alan Yuhas
Trump claimed that his tax plan will be the largest cuts since Ronald Reagan and create jobs, while in his words Clinton’s would create a huge tax hike.
Trump’s tax plan would disproportionately help the wealthiest Americans, saving them millions of dollars and adding trillions to the national debt, according to an analysis by the Tax Foundation, a conservative thinktank. He would reduce the business tax rate to 15%, eliminate the estate tax (aka the “death tax”), which mostly affects wealthy inheritors, and would reduce revenue from taxes by about $5tn. According to the Foundation, the top 1% of earners would see a 10.2% increase to their incomes.
Clinton’s tax plan does not change tax rates for the middle class, but does increase taxes by 4% on people who have an adjusted income of more than $5m, as well as closing corporate loopholes. Only about 0.5% of small businesses in the US reported a profit of more than $1m in 2011, according to the US Treasury Department. Clinton would increase tax revenue by $1.1tn by taxing the top 1% of earners, increasing the estate tax and eliminating fossil fuel subsidies, and by implementing and a more complex tax code, according to the Tax Policy Center.
Trump has not proven that he pays any federal income tax, and did not deny that he doesn’t pay, saying simply that it would prove he’s “smart”.
2.43am BST
02:43
Trump: “It’s about time that this country had somebody running it who has some idea about money.” He appears to be referring to himself.
Then he compares La Guardia unfavorably to Dubai, Qatar and Chinese airports. Then he lists all the infrastructure he would build.
“We don’t have the money because it’s been squandered on your ideas,” Trump says.
Maybe it’s because you haven’t paid your taxes, she says. Good line.
Clinton hits Trump for not paying people:
I’ve met a lot of people who were stiffed by you and your businesses, Donald... who you refused to pay when they finished the work that you asked them to do.
Clinton says there’s an architect in the audience who was not paid by Trump for his work.
Clinton: “Do the thousands of people who you have stiffed in the course of your business not deserve some kind of apology?”
Trump says the person probably did not do good work.
She points out he’s taken business bankruptcy six times.. “you even at one time tried to suggest that you would negotiate down the national debt. Sometimes there’s not a direct transfer of skills.. but sometime what would happen in business would be disastrous for government.”
2.41am BST
02:41
Manterruptions
Mona Chalabi
Notice how Donald Trump keeps on talking over Hillary Clinton? Social scientists around the country will probably be shrugging with a “go figure”. In 1975, two sociologists conducted a study by loitering in public places like coffee shops and drug stores with a tape recorder, listening to two-person conversations they overheard. They found men were responsible for 47 of the 48 interruptions they overheard.
A separate study in 2014 found pretty similar results. When men were talking to women, they interrupted 2.1 times over a three-minute dialogue - when they were talking to men, they interrupted 1.8 times on average. When women were talking to women, they interrupted even more though, 2.9 times per 3 minutes on average. But the women interrupted just once if their talking partner was male.
2.40am BST
02:40
Amber Jamieson
Debating trade - one of Donald Trump’s biggest claims is that he’s against trade deals such as TPP and NAFTA - has created the most aggressive moment between the two so far, with Trump and Clinton both yelling at each other. But the winner of the spat depends on which side you’re on.
On the right:
Author of Reclaiming the American Right: Lost Legacy of the Conservative Movement:
He's slaughtering her.
Conservative commentator AJ Delgado:
Trump is ON FIRE!!!!! #NAFTA #TPP
A Breitbart News reporter:
Wow.. Trump killing Clinton on NAFTA. She has no idea what to do except repeat B.S. talking points.
GOP strategist:
Trump is winning so far. The first 15-20 minutes are crucial.#debatenight
On the left:
Political junkie:
Donald Trump can't help himself. He's drunk, ractist uncle at Thanksgiving. #debatenight #debates
Progressive columnist:
How many women watching now are remembering men in their lives who yelled at them wouldn't let them talk? #Debates2016
Slate editor:
I'm becoming a better parent tonight learning from Hillary Clinton's patience and even demeanor.
2.39am BST
02:39
Mona Chalabi
Media reports today have claimed that as many as 100 million people could be tuning in to watch this debate - a number vaguely attributed to “network executives and political strategists”. Wherever the number comes from, it really does seem to be epic by historical standards - is it though?
Nielsen, the market research company which tracks such numbers, looked at 50 years of household viewership for televised presidential debates (note, they’re looking at households though so it’s a slightly different measure). They found that the biggest debate was the one between Barack Obama and Mitt Romney on 3 October 2012 which attracted 46.2 million households.
And, as the candidates debate the economy, remember that viewers will have different attitudes about where the country is at. According to polling by Pew Research Center, Republicans are much less likely than Democrats to say that “economic conditions in the country are excellent” or “very good”.
Updated
at 2.43am BST
2.38am BST
02:38
Clinton on Trump's taxes: 'there's something he's hiding'
Clinton gets the mic. She says candidates going back 40 years have released their returns. “So you’ve gotta ask yourself, why won’t he release his tax returns? Maybe he’s not as rich as he says he is. Maybe he’s not as charitable... third, he owes $600m to foreign banks... or maybe he doesn’t want the American people, all of you watching to know he didn’t pay any income taxes.”
Trump: “That makes me smart.”
Clinton: “Zero for troops, zero for vets.. it must be something really important, or terrible, that he’s trying to hide... I have no reason to believe that he’s ever going to release his tax returns. Because there’s something he’s hiding... were he ever to get near the White HOuse. What would be these conflicts? Who does he owe money to?
I made a mistake using private email.
Trump: That’s for sure.
Clinton: I take responsibility.
Trump: That was not a mistake. That was done purposefully.
She’s blinking at him. He may be in conspiracy territory here.
“As far as my tax returns, you don’t learn that much from tax returns, I can tell you.. the other things, I’m extremely under-leveraged.”
2.36am BST
02:36
Mona Chalabi
It’s ironic (or just plain awful) that voters who are faced with a choice between two of the most unpopular candidates in history must do so on a medium they also thoroughly distrust.
According to data published by Pew Research Center today, 70% of US adults believe the news media is having a negative effect on the country. By contrast, 50% say the same about banks and financial institutions. When analyzed by partisanship, those views are even stronger among Republicans than Democrats.