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Version 19 Version 20
Debate: Clinton says 'race often determines too much' in policing – live coverage Debate: Trump says Clinton and Obama ‘created a vacuum’ for Isis – live updates
(35 minutes later)
2.53am BST 3.28am BST
02:53 03:28
Clinton hits Trump for 'dire negative picture of black communities' Holt moves to the last segment. Do you support the current policy on “first use” of nuclear weapons? It’s a bit of a gotcha question. He’s talking about no first use.
Trump says “you need better relationships between the community and police.. there’s some bad things going on.. we need law and order and we need law and order in the cities.” Trump blathers about Russia, then says, “I would certainly not do first strike.”
Clinton is still listening. Now she speaks. He says China should “go into North Korea.” Then he says Iran has power over North Korea. He’s casting an extremely wide net for this answer.
“I’ve heard Donald say this at his rallies, and it’s really unfortunate that he paints such a dire negative picture of black communities in our country.” “There’s a lot we should be proud of.”
Clinton says “stop-in-frisk was found to be unconstitutional.” She says it was not effective. “It’s just a fact that if you’re a young African American man, and you do the same thing as a young white man, you’re more likely to be charged, convicted and imprisoned...”
“We can’t just say ‘law and order’. We need to come up with a plan.”
2.51am BST
02:51
2.49am BST
02:49
Trump: African Americans and Hispanics are living in hell
Trump says Clinton won’t say “law and order.” “We need law and order in our country.”
Then he describes an inner-city hellscape:
African Americans and Hispanics are living in hell because it’s so dangerous. You walk down the street you get shot.
He says the country needs law and order. He mentions stop and frisk, says Rudy Giuliani in the audience and “it worked very well in New York.”
Clinton is looking at him evenly.
Holt follows up on stop-and-frisk. He says it was unconstitutional because it targets nonwhite men.
“No you’re wrong,” Trump says. “It went before a judge who was a very against-police judge.”
Holt: “The argument is that it causes racial profiling.”
Trump flatly denies the correlation.
UpdatedUpdated
at 2.54am BST at 3.29am BST
2.49am BST 3.28am BST
02:49 03:28
Mona Chalabi As the candidates debate “securing America” with a particular focus on the threat of Isis and each candidate’s stance on the Iraq war, this chart offers some context:
The candidates are currently discussing racial justice in America. But some voters clearly have other priorities. When Pew Research Center asked what voters consider as “very important”, treatment of racial and ethnic minorities comes tenth on the list. 3.27am BST
03:27
Clinton quotes Trump as saying “you know if they taunted our sailors, I’d blow them out of the water...” referring to sailors taken captive by Iran.
Clinton continues on Trump’s temperament: “The worst.. has been about nuclear weapons. He has said repeatedly that he does not care if other countries got nuclear weapons..
His cavalier attitude about nuclear weapons is so deeply troubling... A man who could be provoked with a tweet should not have his finger anywhere near the button.
Trump:
That line is getting a little bit old.
Clinton:
It’s a good one, though. Well describes the problem.
3.24am BST
03:24
Clinton tweaks Trump for temperament boast
Trump: “I have much better judgment than he does. There’s no question about that. I also have a much better temperament than she does...
I think my strongest asset maybe by far is my temperament. I have a winning temperament.
He’s raving about his perfect temperament.
Holt: Secretary Clinton?
Clinton: “Whoo! OK... ” She makes fun of him and gets a laugh.
UpdatedUpdated
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2.46am BST 3.21am BST
02:46 03:21
Clinton: 'race often determines too much' Holt says that Trump supported the war in Iraq.
Holt brings up police shootings of black men and asks about healing along lines of race and racism. Trump flies off the handle: “That is a mainstream media nonsense put out by her!”
“Unfortunately, race often determines too much,” she says. Where they live, how they’re treated in the criminal justice system. “We have to restore trust between communities and the police. We have to work to make sure that our police are using the best training, the best techniques, that they’re well prepared to use force... everyone should be respected by the law and everyone should respect the law.” Holt: “The record shows otherwise.”
She says her platform would address criminal justice reform. “And we’ve got to get guns out of the hands of people who should not have them.” She refers to the gun epidemic. “We have to tackle the plague of gun violence.” Trump: “The record shows that I’m right.”
2.44am BST Then he runs through his own history of his positions. He talks about Sean Hannity telling him, Trump, that he, Trump, opposed the war.
02:44 Trump is still talking. “If somebody would call up Sean Hannity, he and I used to have arguments.”
Trump says he’s opening a hotel on Pennsylvania avenue. “So if I don’t get there one way, I’ll get there another.” 3.21am BST
Trump is ranting about the budget. We use the word ranting because his teeth are bared, he’s chopping the air with his hands and his voice is at high volume. 03:21
2.43am BST Fact check: Isis, Libya and Iraq
02:43
Fact check: tax plans
Alan YuhasAlan Yuhas
Trump claimed that his tax plan will be the largest cuts since Ronald Reagan and create jobs, while in his words Clinton’s would create a huge tax hike. Trump: “President Obama and Secretary Clinton created a vacuum” for Isis.
Trump’s tax plan would disproportionately help the wealthiest Americans, saving them millions of dollars and adding trillions to the national debt, according to an analysis by the Tax Foundation, a conservative thinktank. He would reduce the business tax rate to 15%, eliminate the estate tax (aka the “death tax”), which mostly affects wealthy inheritors, and would reduce revenue from taxes by about $5tn. According to the Foundation, the top 1% of earners would see a 10.2% increase to their incomes. The claim that Barack Obama and Hillary Clinton created the conditions for Isis ignores that its first segments formed out of the post-invasion civil war in Iraq, while George W Bush was president; that the group took root in Syria’s civil war, where the US did not intervene until 2014; and that Obama withdrew American forces in 2011 under the timeline agreed on by Bush and Baghdad.
Clinton’s tax plan does not change tax rates for the middle class, but does increase taxes by 4% on people who have an adjusted income of more than $5m, as well as closing corporate loopholes. Only about 0.5% of small businesses in the US reported a profit of more than $1m in 2011, according to the US Treasury Department. Clinton would increase tax revenue by $1.1tn by taxing the top 1% of earners, increasing the estate tax and eliminating fossil fuel subsidies, and by implementing and a more complex tax code, according to the Tax Policy Center. Clinton: “Donald supported the invasion of Iraq.”
Trump has not proven that he pays any federal income tax, and did not deny that he doesn’t pay, saying simply that it would prove he’s “smart”. Trump: “Wrong.”
2.43am BST This is a lie. In the months before the Iraq war began, the businessman made a tepid endorsement of invasion to radio host Howard Stern, who asked him whether he thought the US should attack Saddam Hussein.
02:43 “Yeah, I guess so,” Trump answered.
Trump: “It’s about time that this country had somebody running it who has some idea about money.” He appears to be referring to himself. A few weeks later he told Fox News that George W Bush was “doing a very good job”. Several weeks after the invasion, Trump told the Washington Post: “The war’s a mess.” In August 2004 he told Esquire: “Two minutes after we leave, there’s going to be a revolution, and the meanest, toughest, smartest, most vicious guy will take over.”
Then he compares La Guardia unfavorably to Dubai, Qatar and Chinese airports. Then he lists all the infrastructure he would build. Even in an interview cited by the Trump campaign to explain his “opposition”, Trump expressed impatience with Bush for not invading sooner. “Whatever happened to the days of the Douglas MacArthur? He would go and attack. He wouldn’t talk.”
“We don’t have the money because it’s been squandered on your ideas,” Trump says. Trump also supported complete withdrawal from Iraq, even in the event of continued civil war or authoritarian violence there. “You know how they get out? They get out. That’s how they get out. Declare victory and leave,” he told CNN in 2007. “This is a total catastrophe, and you might as well get out now because you’re just wasting time, and lives.”
Maybe it’s because you haven’t paid your taxes, she says. Good line. Like Clinton, Trump also supported military strikes in Libya, saying in a February 2011 video blog that the US should take “immediate” action against dictator Muammar Ghaddafi.
Clinton hits Trump for not paying people: “We should go in, we should stop this guy, which would be be very easy and very quick. We could do it surgically.” No one supported an occupation to “build democracy” there in the model of George W Bush’s occupation of Iraq.
I’ve met a lot of people who were stiffed by you and your businesses, Donald... who you refused to pay when they finished the work that you asked them to do.
Clinton says there’s an architect in the audience who was not paid by Trump for his work.
Clinton: “Do the thousands of people who you have stiffed in the course of your business not deserve some kind of apology?”
Trump says the person probably did not do good work.
She points out he’s taken business bankruptcy six times.. “you even at one time tried to suggest that you would negotiate down the national debt. Sometimes there’s not a direct transfer of skills.. but sometime what would happen in business would be disastrous for government.”
2.41am BST
02:41
Manterruptions
Mona Chalabi
Notice how Donald Trump keeps on talking over Hillary Clinton? Social scientists around the country will probably be shrugging with a “go figure”. In 1975, two sociologists conducted a study by loitering in public places like coffee shops and drug stores with a tape recorder, listening to two-person conversations they overheard. They found men were responsible for 47 of the 48 interruptions they overheard.
A separate study in 2014 found pretty similar results. When men were talking to women, they interrupted 2.1 times over a three-minute dialogue - when they were talking to men, they interrupted 1.8 times on average. When women were talking to women, they interrupted even more though, 2.9 times per 3 minutes on average. But the women interrupted just once if their talking partner was male.
2.40am BST
02:40
Amber Jamieson
Debating trade - one of Donald Trump’s biggest claims is that he’s against trade deals such as TPP and NAFTA - has created the most aggressive moment between the two so far, with Trump and Clinton both yelling at each other. But the winner of the spat depends on which side you’re on.
On the right:
Author of Reclaiming the American Right: Lost Legacy of the Conservative Movement:
He's slaughtering her.
Conservative commentator AJ Delgado:
Trump is ON FIRE!!!!! #NAFTA #TPP
A Breitbart News reporter:
Wow.. Trump killing Clinton on NAFTA. She has no idea what to do except repeat B.S. talking points.
GOP strategist:
Trump is winning so far. The first 15-20 minutes are crucial.#debatenight
On the left:
Political junkie:
Donald Trump can't help himself. He's drunk, ractist uncle at Thanksgiving. #debatenight #debates
Progressive columnist:
How many women watching now are remembering men in their lives who yelled at them wouldn't let them talk? #Debates2016
Slate editor:
I'm becoming a better parent tonight learning from Hillary Clinton's patience and even demeanor.
2.39am BST
02:39
Mona Chalabi
Media reports today have claimed that as many as 100 million people could be tuning in to watch this debate - a number vaguely attributed to “network executives and political strategists”. Wherever the number comes from, it really does seem to be epic by historical standards - is it though?
Nielsen, the market research company which tracks such numbers, looked at 50 years of household viewership for televised presidential debates (note, they’re looking at households though so it’s a slightly different measure). They found that the biggest debate was the one between Barack Obama and Mitt Romney on 3 October 2012 which attracted 46.2 million households.
And, as the candidates debate the economy, remember that viewers will have different attitudes about where the country is at. According to polling by Pew Research Center, Republicans are much less likely than Democrats to say that “economic conditions in the country are excellent” or “very good”.
UpdatedUpdated
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2.38am BST 3.19am BST
02:38 03:19
Clinton on Trump's taxes: 'there's something he's hiding' Trump accuses Clinton of turning Iran into “a major power.”
Clinton gets the mic. She says candidates going back 40 years have released their returns. “So you’ve gotta ask yourself, why won’t he release his tax returns? Maybe he’s not as rich as he says he is. Maybe he’s not as charitable... third, he owes $600m to foreign banks... or maybe he doesn’t want the American people, all of you watching to know he didn’t pay any income taxes.” On Nato, “they have to understand I’m a business person,” Trump says. He accuses allies of not “paying their fair share.”
Trump: “That makes me smart.” Then Trump claims credit for Nato opening up a major terror division.
Clinton: “Zero for troops, zero for vets.. it must be something really important, or terrible, that he’s trying to hide... I have no reason to believe that he’s ever going to release his tax returns. Because there’s something he’s hiding... were he ever to get near the White HOuse. What would be these conflicts? Who does he owe money to? “I think we have to get Nato to go into the Middle East with us, and we have to knock the hell out of Isis, and we have to do it fast.”
I made a mistake using private email. Then Trump says that in fact Clinton did pull out the troops.
Trump: That’s for sure. Clinton: We’ve covered this ground.
Clinton: I take responsibility. 3.17am BST
Trump: That was not a mistake. That was done purposefully. 03:17
She’s blinking at him. He may be in conspiracy territory here. Holt brings up domestic and homegrown terrorism. How to prevent those? Trump is first.
“As far as my tax returns, you don’t learn that much from tax returns, I can tell you.. the other things, I’m extremely under-leveraged.” Trump goes back to Isis. He blames the formation of Isis on the precipitous withdrawal from Iraq. He suggests leaving 10,000 troops behind. “We should’ve taken the oil … Isis would not have been able to form either,” he says.
2.36am BST Trump refers to “Libya, which was another one of her disasters.”
02:36 Clinton again appeals to the refs, to the “fact-checkers.” Clinton says Trump supported the invasion of Iraq...
Trump: “Wrong. Wrong.”
... and Clinton says that George W Bush made an agreement to leave Iraq, not Obama.
This is basic history. Will it fly?
Clinton is on to the homegrown terrorism problem. She calls for an “intelligence surge.” She says that the US must work with Nato and allies to improve intelligence and turn attention to terrorism. “Donald has consistently insulted Muslims abroad, Muslims at home, when we need to be cooperating.”
Updated
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3.16am BST
03:16
Fact check: foreign policy
Alan Yuhas
Clinton: Trump has been “praiseworthy of Vladimir Putin”.
Trump: “Wrong.”
Trump has repeatedly called Russia’s president a “strong leader” and spoken approvingly – “praise” by nearly any definition – of this strength and Putin’s polling numbers. For instance, on 18 December 2015 he told MSNBC: “I’ve always felt fine about Putin. I think that he’s a strong leader.”
He added: “He’s running his country and at least he’s a leader, unlike what we have in this country.”
Last September, he told Fox News: “In terms of leadership [Putin’s] getting an A.” In a 10 March debate, Trump tried to hedge on semantics. “Strong doesn’t mean good,” he said. “Putin is a strong leader, absolutely. He is a strong leader. Now I don’t say that in a good way or a bad way. I say it as a fact.”
Trump: Clinton has been “fighting Isis your entire adult life.”
The Islamic State’s first segments formed out of the post-invasion civil war in Iraq, while George W Bush was president. The group took root in Syria’s civil war, where the US did not intervene until 2014. The terror group largely formed out of the remnants of Saddam Hussein’s government and the factions that formed al-Qaida in Iraq – all of which happened in the last decade or so. The group also gained international notoriety only in 2014, when it invaded Iraq in significant forces and when Clinton was out of office.
Trump: “Whether [the DNC hack] was Russia, whether that was China, whether that was another country, we don’t know.”
Several independent security firms, in addition to intelligence officials, have pointed to Russian-backed hackers as the culprits behind a hack of the Democratic National Committee. Trump is correct in an extremely technical sense: no one has provided 100% proof that Russia was behind the hack, and the Obama administration has proven loath to escalate a hacking war. But security experts have found technical fingerprints that seem to hint back toward Russia, just as they have found links back to Chinese hacks in unrelated cases.
3.13am BST
03:13
Clinton says she has a plan to defeat Isis that involves combatting them online. “But we also have to intensify our air strikes against Isis and … support our Arab and Kurdish partners...”
“We’re making progress, our military is … in Iraq,” she says. “We’re hoping that within a year we’ll be able to push Isis out of Iraq.”
She ignores Trump’s defense of Russia on the hacking. She says that taking out Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi is a top plank in her plan to take out Isis.
Updated
at 3.15am BST
3.11am BST
03:11
Mona ChalabiMona Chalabi
It’s ironic (or just plain awful) that voters who are faced with a choice between two of the most unpopular candidates in history must do so on a medium they also thoroughly distrust. Donald Trump has tried to deflect a question about how he demanded to see Barack Obama’s birth certificate. Those racist attitudes are still prevalent among the Republican’s supporters.
According to data published by Pew Research Center today, 70% of US adults believe the news media is having a negative effect on the country. By contrast, 50% say the same about banks and financial institutions. When analyzed by partisanship, those views are even stronger among Republicans than Democrats. A poll in May found that two-thirds of voters with a favorable opinion of Donald Trump believed Barack Obama was a Muslim and 59% believed Obama was born outside of the US.
3.11am BST
03:11
Trump defends Russia from accusation of hacking DNC
Trump says he was endorsed by more than 200 admirals and generals “and many more are coming.” “So when secretary Clinton says this... I’ll take the admirals and the generals over the political hacks.”
That line may not play well in northern Virginia.
Trump casts doubt on the notion that the DNC hacking was Russia-backed. He says it may have been China, or bizarrely, a “400-lb person sitting on their bed.”
“Under President Obama, we’ve lost control of things we should have had control over.. we have to get very, very tough on cyber and cyber warfare.”
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3.09am BST
03:09
Clinton takes a question on cyber war. She says that Trump has praised Russian president Vladimir Putin. Trump does something strange to the microphone. Kind of swoops on it and blows into it with his full round mouth.
Clinton: “We need to make it very clear.. the United States has much greater capacity, and we are not going to sit idly by to let state actors go after our information.
“I was so shocked when Donald publicly invited Putin to hack into Americans. That is just unacceptable... Donald is unfit to be commander-in-chief.”
Updated
at 3.11am BST