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You can find the current article at its original source at https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/live/2016/oct/19/nationals-call-for-import-of-rapid-fire-adler-with-restrictions-politics-live
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| Version 2 | Version 3 |
|---|---|
| Nationals call for import of rapid-fire Adler with restrictions – politics live | Nationals call for import of rapid-fire Adler with restrictions – politics live |
| (35 minutes later) | |
| 12.28am BST | |
| 00:28 | |
| Labor loses the amendment. Now the house votes to cut back debate on registered orgs. | |
| 12.23am BST | |
| 00:23 | |
| There will be a number of procedural votes on this motion due to Labor trying to amend the bill. Bear with me... | |
| 12.22am BST | |
| 00:22 | |
| Lower house is dividing now on the Coalition’s suspension motion which would push the registered organisations bill through the lower house so it could sit waiting for the senate to return on November 7. With its bigger brother ABCC. | |
| 12.20am BST | |
| 00:20 | |
| Treasury secretary John Fraser: intergeneration wealth inequality is a huge issue | |
| Gareth Hutchens | |
| The Treasury Secretary, John Fraser, is appearing before senate estimates this morning. | |
| He was just asked about intergenerational wealth inequality, by Greens senator Peter Whish-Wilson. | |
| Fraser said it was a “huge issue,” and much of it had to be do with property prices. | |
| He said much wealth is tied up in property in Australia, and young people were increasingly relying on the “bank of mum and dad” to get into the property market. | |
| He said it’s got to the point where it is affecting parents’ superannuation accounts. Parents are having to help pay for house deposits for their kids, or they’re paying their kids’ rents so they can save for a deposit themselves. | |
| He said the policy priority ought to be land release, and the supply of housing generally, to release some of the pressure. | |
| 12.19am BST | |
| 00:19 | |
| Liberal MP Ian Goodenough has come out to back the Nationals’ excursion on the Adler. He supports the higher capacity Adler shotgun going into category B. This from Andrew Probyn’s article. | |
| Mr Goodenough said he endorsed a move by New South Wales police minister Troy Grant to have the shotgun reclassified, saying it was not practical to enforce and “arbitrary ban”. | |
| “This is consistent with the technical characteristics of the firearm, and fits into a logical hierarchy,” he said. | |
| “The design of the lever-action mechanism has been around since the 1860’s – mainly for rifles in the American Civil War. | |
| “There are several other models of lever-action shotguns in circulation including the Winchester Model 9410, Uzkon LA887, Pardus Lax12, and Zhong Zhou PW87 – to name a few. | |
| “That is why an arbitrary ban on certain models will not be practical to enforce.” | |
| PM Turnbull under friendly fire: WA Liberal MP Ian Goodenough backs importing quickfire Adler shotgun#auspol https://t.co/1CPZOUpmwc | |
| Updated | |
| at 12.21am BST | |
| 12.15am BST | |
| 00:15 | |
| Brendan O’Connor, Labor shadow employment minister, says there are new members in the parliament who have not had a chance to debate the bill. | |
| New Labor MP for Perth, Tim Hammond, sitting in camera shot behind O’Connor, shakes his head sadly. | |
| 12.13am BST | |
| 00:13 | |
| Christopher Pyne has moved a suspension of standing orders to bring on the registered orgs bill: | |
| (1) Resumption of debate on the second reading of the bill being called on and the first opposition member immediately called to speak; | |
| (2) At the conclusion of the speech of the first opposition member on the second reading of the bill, the prime minister being called immediately to conclude the second reading debate and the question then being put immediately on the second reading of the bill, a governor general’s message being reported and the question being put immediately on the third reading of the bill; and | |
| (3) Any variation to this arrangement to be made only by a motion moved by a minister. | |
| So. Labor would get one speaker and then the bill would be voted on after Malcolm Turnbull speaks. | |
| This happened on the ABCC bill yesterday. If the government got the numbers on that bill yesterday, I am assuming they will get the numbers today. Except I would never assume anything about numbers in this parliament. | |
| Updated | |
| at 12.15am BST | |
| 12.09am BST | |
| 00:09 | |
| There is a discussion between Christopher Pyne and Tony Burke, the two managers in the lower house, about whether the registered organisations bill – the amended bill – should be debated. | |
| Pyne wants to whip it through on the grounds that it has been debated exhaustively in its previous incarnations. Pyne was in full theatrical mode and had the Labor frontbench in stitches, which I shall try to bring you shortly. | |
| Burke says it has been amended and members should have a chance to have a say. It was the subject of a double dissolution bill, for crying out loud, says Burke. | |
| If the leader of the house doesn’t like debate, I would suggest he gets a different job. | |
| Updated | |
| at 12.15am BST | |
| 12.05am BST | |
| 00:05 | |
| There has been a lot of discussion about the Adler in the thread and readers point out some useful things which I have verified with a firearms expert on this issue. | |
| That is the very simple point to reinforce that the Adler 5-shot is already in the country. The argument is about the higher capacity Adler shotgun with 10 cartridges in the magazine. | |
| The Adler is currently available in category A, the least restricted category. While all the states have slightly different rules, here is an indication of the categories in NSW. | |
| What firearms are applicable to a Category A firearms licence? | |
| What firearms are applicable to a Category B firearms licence? | |
| NSW National party leader Troy Grant wants to put the Adler into category B, as Lucy Barbour reported. | |
| Placing the Adler in category B would ensure that gun users wanting to import the firearm could do so, provided it was for a specific purpose like shooting feral pigs. | |
| Anti-gun lobbyists argue it should be moved into the more restrictive C or D categories, alongside semi-automatic weapons. | |
| 11.46pm BST | 11.46pm BST |
| 23:46 | 23:46 |
| I endorse @senbmckenzie and @MarkCoultonMP calls for the Adler shotgun to be classified as Category "B" on technical grounds. | I endorse @senbmckenzie and @MarkCoultonMP calls for the Adler shotgun to be classified as Category "B" on technical grounds. |
| 11.45pm BST | 11.45pm BST |
| 23:45 | 23:45 |
| Late last night, in estimates, Labor got down to questioning the attorney general George Brandis on his appointment of Theo Tavoularis to the Administrative Appeals Tribunal. | |
| Tavoularis is a Liberal party donor and reportedly appeared for Brandis’ son in court. He was asked by Labor on Monday if he organised for Tavoularis to represent his son at a discounted rate. At that time Brandis said he could not remember. | |
| Just before 9pm last night, Wong asked Brandis, did you get mates rates on a legal service from a donor because of your position as AG? | Just before 9pm last night, Wong asked Brandis, did you get mates rates on a legal service from a donor because of your position as AG? |
| Brandis was outraged. Chair Ian Macdonald said it was an outrageous question. | |
| Brandis said: | |
| I am restraining myself Mr Chairman. Rule the questions out of order, I will not be entertaining them. | |
| Macdonald said Wong should apologise, to which she said: “What for?” | |
| I don’t think Senator Wong has the capacity to apologise. I think you are wasting your breath. | I don’t think Senator Wong has the capacity to apologise. I think you are wasting your breath. |
| AG George Brandis wasn't prepared to answer questions from Senator Pratt on his relationship with this lawyer - https://t.co/uvKAaTQyIA pic.twitter.com/acI4dcvdfM | AG George Brandis wasn't prepared to answer questions from Senator Pratt on his relationship with this lawyer - https://t.co/uvKAaTQyIA pic.twitter.com/acI4dcvdfM |
| Updated | |
| at 12.01am BST | |
| 11.31pm BST | 11.31pm BST |
| 23:31 | 23:31 |
| A little less emotion, a little more evidence, says Coulton. | A little less emotion, a little more evidence, says Coulton. |
| 11.24pm BST | 11.24pm BST |
| 23:24 | 23:24 |
| As I said the two industrial relations bills are front and centre of the government’s agenda. | As I said the two industrial relations bills are front and centre of the government’s agenda. |
| Nick Xenophon’s lower house MP Rebekha Sharkie voted for the ABCC bill late yesterday. | Nick Xenophon’s lower house MP Rebekha Sharkie voted for the ABCC bill late yesterday. |
| Overnight NXT indicated they would knock back the Coalition’s one-month wait for the unemployed benefits for young people. | |
| They will also knock back limits placed on the pension for those who spend more than six weeks overseas. | They will also knock back limits placed on the pension for those who spend more than six weeks overseas. |
| Sharkie pointed out on the pension rule changes, it would save about as much as the marriage plebiscite would cost. She suggested spending priorities were a matter for the government. | Sharkie pointed out on the pension rule changes, it would save about as much as the marriage plebiscite would cost. She suggested spending priorities were a matter for the government. |
| Updated | |
| at 12.03am BST | |
| 10.51pm BST | 10.51pm BST |
| 22:51 | 22:51 |
| Malcolm Turnbull has spoken to Bridge and Spida on Gold 92.5FM on the Gold Coast to discuss alleged union thuggery on the Commonwealth Games site. | Malcolm Turnbull has spoken to Bridge and Spida on Gold 92.5FM on the Gold Coast to discuss alleged union thuggery on the Commonwealth Games site. |
| He is asked about David Leyonhjelm saying he felt deceived by the government on the Adler ban. | He is asked about David Leyonhjelm saying he felt deceived by the government on the Adler ban. |
| Turnbull replied: | Turnbull replied: |
| Let me be very clear about this: there is no proposal, or contemplation, or possibility of any weakening of John Howard’s gun laws. The national firearms agreement is set in stone. | Let me be very clear about this: there is no proposal, or contemplation, or possibility of any weakening of John Howard’s gun laws. The national firearms agreement is set in stone. |
| The Adler shotgun is a category A weapon and can be widely bought by those with appropriate registration, he notes. | The Adler shotgun is a category A weapon and can be widely bought by those with appropriate registration, he notes. |
| What has been proposed by police ministers and justice ministers is that this classification be changed so its availability be more restricted. The police ministers have not been able to reach agreement on that ... which is why a year ago we stepped in and said ‘right, until you agree on the reclassification of this particular weapon, there will be an import ban on it’. And that import ban will remain until such time as the state ministers come to a landing on the reclassification. | What has been proposed by police ministers and justice ministers is that this classification be changed so its availability be more restricted. The police ministers have not been able to reach agreement on that ... which is why a year ago we stepped in and said ‘right, until you agree on the reclassification of this particular weapon, there will be an import ban on it’. And that import ban will remain until such time as the state ministers come to a landing on the reclassification. |
| 10.46pm BST | 10.46pm BST |
| 22:46 | 22:46 |
| Tony Abbott: no way on God's Earth I would let Adlers flood the country | |
| Abbott, Adlers and anxieties. | Abbott, Adlers and anxieties. |
| Katharine Murphy reported: | Katharine Murphy reported: |
| Tony Abbott has challenged Malcolm Turnbull to find “another deregulatory measure” to win the Liberal Democratic party senator David Leyonhjelm’s vote on restoring the building and construction commission and take gun control definitively off the table. | Tony Abbott has challenged Malcolm Turnbull to find “another deregulatory measure” to win the Liberal Democratic party senator David Leyonhjelm’s vote on restoring the building and construction commission and take gun control definitively off the table. |
| Abbott told Guardian Australia on Tuesday evening there was “no way on God’s Earth” he would have allowed eight-shot Adler guns to “flood into the country” while he was prime minister. | Abbott told Guardian Australia on Tuesday evening there was “no way on God’s Earth” he would have allowed eight-shot Adler guns to “flood into the country” while he was prime minister. |
| Abbott said he had moved to ban the weapons when he heard the guns were being imported, detecting the “anxiety” of police and security agencies – and the ban had then been subjected to a sunset clause because of what he termed “pushback in the Coalition” – not because of any agreement with Leyonhjelm on nonrelated migration legislation. | |
| The pushback was from the Nationals, including three very senior members and officials who were on a shooting trip when they heard about the Adler ban in 2015. | The pushback was from the Nationals, including three very senior members and officials who were on a shooting trip when they heard about the Adler ban in 2015. |
| Updated | Updated |
| at 12.08am BST | |
| 10.26pm BST | 10.26pm BST |
| 22:26 | 22:26 |
| Mark Coulton and other National MPs are worried that the current debate is not based on evidence but on emotion. | Mark Coulton and other National MPs are worried that the current debate is not based on evidence but on emotion. |
| It is my deep frustration Fran that this has become a major issue when it is really one of process. There is no one that I’ve heard that say the import of the Adler shotgun will make life less secure for the citizens of Australia. | It is my deep frustration Fran that this has become a major issue when it is really one of process. There is no one that I’ve heard that say the import of the Adler shotgun will make life less secure for the citizens of Australia. |
| He goes to the conversion kits available that can convert the five-shot Adler to an 11 shot. Coulton says he finds it hard to believe that conversion is possible but if people do that, they are breaking the law and should be prosecuted. | |
| Coulton takes issue with Fran’s formulation that Turnbull said the Adler ban was set in stone. | Coulton takes issue with Fran’s formulation that Turnbull said the Adler ban was set in stone. |
| He did not say the ban is set in stone ... There will be no watering down of process were his words. | |
| Updated | |
| at 12.09am BST | |
| 10.20pm BST | 10.20pm BST |
| 22:20 | 22:20 |
| Fran Kelly has been talking to National MP Mark Coulton, who says there are a lot of rapid-fire guns that are quite legal. | |
| He said Malcolm Turnbull and justice minister Michael Keenan were “spot on” with their messages. | He said Malcolm Turnbull and justice minister Michael Keenan were “spot on” with their messages. |
| This is about classification. | This is about classification. |
| Coulton says the proposals is to put the Adler from category A to B. This would be a strengthening of firearm laws around the Adler. He says the change in classification would mean only farmers and certain shooters would have access. | Coulton says the proposals is to put the Adler from category A to B. This would be a strengthening of firearm laws around the Adler. He says the change in classification would mean only farmers and certain shooters would have access. |
| Coulton says the Adler would mainly be used to shooting feral animals like pigs. | Coulton says the Adler would mainly be used to shooting feral animals like pigs. |
| Currently, farmers might use pump-action or double-barrel shotguns to do that job. | |
| But Coulton says there is demand for the Adler because it is seen to be reliable because it doesn’t jam, it is not expensive and has a reputation for efficiency. | But Coulton says there is demand for the Adler because it is seen to be reliable because it doesn’t jam, it is not expensive and has a reputation for efficiency. |
| Updated | |
| at 12.10am BST | |
| 10.09pm BST | 10.09pm BST |
| 22:09 | 22:09 |
| Good morning | Good morning |
| With Malcolm Turnbull ratcheting up his rhetoric on maintaining the line on gun laws for the Adler shotgun, you could have started counting down the hours before his Coalition partner entered the debate. | With Malcolm Turnbull ratcheting up his rhetoric on maintaining the line on gun laws for the Adler shotgun, you could have started counting down the hours before his Coalition partner entered the debate. |
| Ding! | Ding! |
| Late last night, two National MPs came out. | Late last night, two National MPs came out. |
| Nationals MP for Parkes Mark Coulton told Latika Bourke of Fairfax: | Nationals MP for Parkes Mark Coulton told Latika Bourke of Fairfax: |
| I’m hoping we can still get this through because I know of one gun dealer who has hundreds on order waiting for this decision | |
| Nationals senator Bridget McKenzie told Faifax: | Nationals senator Bridget McKenzie told Faifax: |
| It is the responsibility of the states and territories to classify and restricting its access as [Grant’s] approach is a positive and common sense step. | It is the responsibility of the states and territories to classify and restricting its access as [Grant’s] approach is a positive and common sense step. |
| The reason she says this is because the federal government is responsible for the import but the states are responsible for the classifications of guns. | The reason she says this is because the federal government is responsible for the import but the states are responsible for the classifications of guns. |
| The Howard-Fischer National Firearms Agreement requires the states to agree to the classification and before the federal government agrees to the import. | The Howard-Fischer National Firearms Agreement requires the states to agree to the classification and before the federal government agrees to the import. |
| If the states cannot agree, the import ban remains in place. | If the states cannot agree, the import ban remains in place. |
| The states and feds are meeting on Friday. | The states and feds are meeting on Friday. |
| The Abbott government put the ban in place with a sunset clause as part of a deal with crossbencher David Leyonhjelm. | The Abbott government put the ban in place with a sunset clause as part of a deal with crossbencher David Leyonhjelm. |
| Overnight Abbott’s former chief of staff and Sky commentator Peta Credlin said: | |
| “I want to say there was absolutely no deal between Tony Abbott and David Leyonhjelm in order to bring in the Adler shotgun,” she said. | “I want to say there was absolutely no deal between Tony Abbott and David Leyonhjelm in order to bring in the Adler shotgun,” she said. |
| “Let’s not forget we had gone through terror raid after terror raid and obviously Martin Place and Tony was adamant that it would not come into the country in the current classification that it was proposed for nor would it come in in the immediate aftermath of those arrest,” she said. | “Let’s not forget we had gone through terror raid after terror raid and obviously Martin Place and Tony was adamant that it would not come into the country in the current classification that it was proposed for nor would it come in in the immediate aftermath of those arrest,” she said. |
| Credlin suggested Abbott would still feel the gun would still have “no place in Australia”. | Credlin suggested Abbott would still feel the gun would still have “no place in Australia”. |
| Let’s get on with it. I am @gabriellechan on the Twits and @mpbowers is lurking. Stay with us during the day because there is plenty more, particularly around the Australian Building Construction Commission bill. While the Nick Xenophon Team voted for it in the House yesterday, they will seek to amend in the Senate in coming weeks. | |
| Oh, and estimates are on again. Giddy up. | |
| Updated | Updated |
| at 12.13am BST |