This article is from the source 'guardian' and was first published or seen on . It last changed over 40 days ago and won't be checked again for changes.

You can find the current article at its original source at https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/live/2016/oct/19/nationals-call-for-import-of-rapid-fire-adler-with-restrictions-politics-live

The article has changed 17 times. There is an RSS feed of changes available.

Version 3 Version 4
Nationals call for import of rapid-fire Adler with restrictions – politics live Nationals call for import of rapid-fire Adler with restrictions – politics live
(35 minutes later)
1.03am BST
01:03
Malcolm Turnbull said the time to end the rip offs is long overdue. He asks Labor:
Whose side are you on are you on, the side of the members or are you on the side of the officials?
Turnbull says Labor remains “stubborn apologists” for union bosses who misuse their power.
The house divides on the vote.
12.58am BST
00:58
Brendan O’Connor says Labor would make amendments to improve the bill from “political puffery”.
First, rather than creating a new government bureaucracy, the Registered Organisations Commission, Labor proposes that the Australian Securities and Investment Commission use its extensive coercive powers to investigate serious breaches of the Fair Work (Registered Organisations) Act.
Second, we will increase penalties for behaviour which is intended to deceive union members or the regulator.
We will double the maximum penalties for all criminal offences under the Act.
We will increase the fine for false and misleading conduct from $10,800 to $18,000- and for paid officials who act in a way that materially prejudices the interests of the union or its members – we will increase the fine from $10,800 to $216,000
12.56am BST
00:56
Just back to Brendan O’Connor first. He pointed out the registered organisations act already does a couple of things.
Let’s be clear about what is already in the Registered Organisations Act:
12.54am BST
00:54
Malcolm Turnbull is up in the house now. He is speaking to the bill, after which, the house will vote.
12.52am BST
00:52
Smashed avocado myth smashed
Following on from Treasury secretary John Fraser’s comments, the Greens senator Peter Whish-Wilson who extracted the information has put out a statement.
At least the Treasury secretary did not accept the premise put forward by Bernard Salt that the reason that younger people aren’t buying homes is because they are blowing their income on smashed-avocado hipster breakfasts.
I put to Mr Fraser that 25-34 year olds are less well off than the same age group a decade ago and every other older age group has significantly increased in wealth. He accepted that this was true but could only talk in the abstract on how we could address it.
Mr Fraser said that he knew that more and more people are relying on the “bank of mum and dad” to enter the housing market. Clearly, given the pre-existing inequality, this situation will only worsen over time.
Investors are using their property-delivered wealth and generous tax concessions to outbid an entire generation who are losing hope at ever being able to own their own home.
The issue of housing affordability, along with income inequality and climate change is completely absent from the Treasury’s corporate plan. It’s time for a root-and-branch review of intergenerational inequity in the tax system to fix this worsening stain on our society.
Updated
at 12.54am BST
12.42am BST
00:42
O’Connor is speaking now against the registered organisations bill.
Bill Shorten has also been speaking at a solar farm – with high-vis jacket – about the issues of the day.
Q: How would you explain the differences between this controversial shotgun and other shotguns on the market that fire more than seven shots?
I am not going to get into a debate about every brand of shotgun on the market. What I am not going to do is stand by when we catch Malcolm Turnbull trading gun laws for votes on other pieces of legislation.
Updated
at 12.55am BST
12.35am BST
00:35
The Coalition wins the suspension on the registered organisations: 74 - 68.
That means only Labor’s Brendan O’Connor can speak on the bill.
12.28am BST12.28am BST
00:2800:28
Labor loses the amendment. Now the house votes to cut back debate on registered orgs. Labor loses the amendment. Now the House votes to cut back debate on registered orgs.
Updated
at 12.36am BST
12.23am BST12.23am BST
00:2300:23
There will be a number of procedural votes on this motion due to Labor trying to amend the bill. Bear with me...There will be a number of procedural votes on this motion due to Labor trying to amend the bill. Bear with me...
12.22am BST12.22am BST
00:2200:22
Lower house is dividing now on the Coalition’s suspension motion which would push the registered organisations bill through the lower house so it could sit waiting for the senate to return on November 7. With its bigger brother ABCC. The lower house is dividing now on the Coalition’s suspension motion which would push the registered organisations bill through the lower house so it could sit waiting for the Senate to return on 7 November. With its bigger brother ABCC.
Updated
at 12.37am BST
12.20am BST12.20am BST
00:2000:20
Treasury secretary John Fraser: intergeneration wealth inequality is a huge issueTreasury secretary John Fraser: intergeneration wealth inequality is a huge issue
Gareth HutchensGareth Hutchens
The Treasury Secretary, John Fraser, is appearing before senate estimates this morning. The Treasury secretary, John Fraser, is appearing before Senate estimates this morning.
He was just asked about intergenerational wealth inequality, by Greens senator Peter Whish-Wilson. He was just asked by Greens senator Peter Whish-Wilson about intergenerational wealth inequality.
Fraser said it was a “huge issue,” and much of it had to be do with property prices. Fraser said it was a “huge issue” and much of it had to do with property prices.
He said much wealth is tied up in property in Australia, and young people were increasingly relying on the “bank of mum and dad” to get into the property market. He said much wealth is tied up in property in Australia and young people were increasingly relying on the “bank of mum and dad” to get into the property market.
He said it’s got to the point where it is affecting parents’ superannuation accounts. Parents are having to help pay for house deposits for their kids, or they’re paying their kids’ rents so they can save for a deposit themselves.He said it’s got to the point where it is affecting parents’ superannuation accounts. Parents are having to help pay for house deposits for their kids, or they’re paying their kids’ rents so they can save for a deposit themselves.
He said the policy priority ought to be land release, and the supply of housing generally, to release some of the pressure.He said the policy priority ought to be land release, and the supply of housing generally, to release some of the pressure.
Updated
at 12.35am BST
12.19am BST12.19am BST
00:1900:19
Liberal MP Ian Goodenough has come out to back the Nationals’ excursion on the Adler. He supports the higher capacity Adler shotgun going into category B. This from Andrew Probyn’s article.Liberal MP Ian Goodenough has come out to back the Nationals’ excursion on the Adler. He supports the higher capacity Adler shotgun going into category B. This from Andrew Probyn’s article.
Mr Goodenough said he endorsed a move by New South Wales police minister Troy Grant to have the shotgun reclassified, saying it was not practical to enforce and “arbitrary ban”.Mr Goodenough said he endorsed a move by New South Wales police minister Troy Grant to have the shotgun reclassified, saying it was not practical to enforce and “arbitrary ban”.
“This is consistent with the technical characteristics of the firearm, and fits into a logical hierarchy,” he said.“This is consistent with the technical characteristics of the firearm, and fits into a logical hierarchy,” he said.
“The design of the lever-action mechanism has been around since the 1860’s – mainly for rifles in the American Civil War.“The design of the lever-action mechanism has been around since the 1860’s – mainly for rifles in the American Civil War.
“There are several other models of lever-action shotguns in circulation including the Winchester Model 9410, Uzkon LA887, Pardus Lax12, and Zhong Zhou PW87 – to name a few.“There are several other models of lever-action shotguns in circulation including the Winchester Model 9410, Uzkon LA887, Pardus Lax12, and Zhong Zhou PW87 – to name a few.
“That is why an arbitrary ban on certain models will not be practical to enforce.”“That is why an arbitrary ban on certain models will not be practical to enforce.”
PM Turnbull under friendly fire: WA Liberal MP Ian Goodenough backs importing quickfire Adler shotgun#auspol https://t.co/1CPZOUpmwcPM Turnbull under friendly fire: WA Liberal MP Ian Goodenough backs importing quickfire Adler shotgun#auspol https://t.co/1CPZOUpmwc
UpdatedUpdated
at 12.21am BSTat 12.21am BST
12.15am BST12.15am BST
00:1500:15
Brendan O’Connor, Labor shadow employment minister, says there are new members in the parliament who have not had a chance to debate the bill.Brendan O’Connor, Labor shadow employment minister, says there are new members in the parliament who have not had a chance to debate the bill.
New Labor MP for Perth, Tim Hammond, sitting in camera shot behind O’Connor, shakes his head sadly.New Labor MP for Perth, Tim Hammond, sitting in camera shot behind O’Connor, shakes his head sadly.
12.13am BST12.13am BST
00:1300:13
Christopher Pyne has moved a suspension of standing orders to bring on the registered orgs bill:Christopher Pyne has moved a suspension of standing orders to bring on the registered orgs bill:
(1) Resumption of debate on the second reading of the bill being called on and the first opposition member immediately called to speak;(1) Resumption of debate on the second reading of the bill being called on and the first opposition member immediately called to speak;
(2) At the conclusion of the speech of the first opposition member on the second reading of the bill, the prime minister being called immediately to conclude the second reading debate and the question then being put immediately on the second reading of the bill, a governor general’s message being reported and the question being put immediately on the third reading of the bill; and(2) At the conclusion of the speech of the first opposition member on the second reading of the bill, the prime minister being called immediately to conclude the second reading debate and the question then being put immediately on the second reading of the bill, a governor general’s message being reported and the question being put immediately on the third reading of the bill; and
(3) Any variation to this arrangement to be made only by a motion moved by a minister.(3) Any variation to this arrangement to be made only by a motion moved by a minister.
So. Labor would get one speaker and then the bill would be voted on after Malcolm Turnbull speaks.So. Labor would get one speaker and then the bill would be voted on after Malcolm Turnbull speaks.
This happened on the ABCC bill yesterday. If the government got the numbers on that bill yesterday, I am assuming they will get the numbers today. Except I would never assume anything about numbers in this parliament.This happened on the ABCC bill yesterday. If the government got the numbers on that bill yesterday, I am assuming they will get the numbers today. Except I would never assume anything about numbers in this parliament.
UpdatedUpdated
at 12.15am BSTat 12.15am BST
12.09am BST12.09am BST
00:0900:09
There is a discussion between Christopher Pyne and Tony Burke, the two managers in the lower house, about whether the registered organisations bill – the amended bill – should be debated.There is a discussion between Christopher Pyne and Tony Burke, the two managers in the lower house, about whether the registered organisations bill – the amended bill – should be debated.
Pyne wants to whip it through on the grounds that it has been debated exhaustively in its previous incarnations. Pyne was in full theatrical mode and had the Labor frontbench in stitches, which I shall try to bring you shortly.Pyne wants to whip it through on the grounds that it has been debated exhaustively in its previous incarnations. Pyne was in full theatrical mode and had the Labor frontbench in stitches, which I shall try to bring you shortly.
Burke says it has been amended and members should have a chance to have a say. It was the subject of a double dissolution bill, for crying out loud, says Burke.Burke says it has been amended and members should have a chance to have a say. It was the subject of a double dissolution bill, for crying out loud, says Burke.
If the leader of the house doesn’t like debate, I would suggest he gets a different job.If the leader of the house doesn’t like debate, I would suggest he gets a different job.
UpdatedUpdated
at 12.15am BSTat 12.15am BST
12.05am BST
00:05
There has been a lot of discussion about the Adler in the thread and readers point out some useful things which I have verified with a firearms expert on this issue.
That is the very simple point to reinforce that the Adler 5-shot is already in the country. The argument is about the higher capacity Adler shotgun with 10 cartridges in the magazine.
The Adler is currently available in category A, the least restricted category. While all the states have slightly different rules, here is an indication of the categories in NSW.
What firearms are applicable to a Category A firearms licence?
What firearms are applicable to a Category B firearms licence?
NSW National party leader Troy Grant wants to put the Adler into category B, as Lucy Barbour reported.
Placing the Adler in category B would ensure that gun users wanting to import the firearm could do so, provided it was for a specific purpose like shooting feral pigs.
Anti-gun lobbyists argue it should be moved into the more restrictive C or D categories, alongside semi-automatic weapons.
11.46pm BST
23:46
I endorse @senbmckenzie and @MarkCoultonMP calls for the Adler shotgun to be classified as Category "B" on technical grounds.
11.45pm BST
23:45
Late last night, in estimates, Labor got down to questioning the attorney general George Brandis on his appointment of Theo Tavoularis to the Administrative Appeals Tribunal.
Tavoularis is a Liberal party donor and reportedly appeared for Brandis’ son in court. He was asked by Labor on Monday if he organised for Tavoularis to represent his son at a discounted rate. At that time Brandis said he could not remember.
Just before 9pm last night, Wong asked Brandis, did you get mates rates on a legal service from a donor because of your position as AG?
Brandis was outraged. Chair Ian Macdonald said it was an outrageous question.
Brandis said:
I am restraining myself Mr Chairman. Rule the questions out of order, I will not be entertaining them.
Macdonald said Wong should apologise, to which she said: “What for?”
I don’t think Senator Wong has the capacity to apologise. I think you are wasting your breath.
AG George Brandis wasn't prepared to answer questions from Senator Pratt on his relationship with this lawyer - https://t.co/uvKAaTQyIA pic.twitter.com/acI4dcvdfM
Updated
at 12.01am BST
11.31pm BST
23:31
A little less emotion, a little more evidence, says Coulton.
11.24pm BST
23:24
As I said the two industrial relations bills are front and centre of the government’s agenda.
Nick Xenophon’s lower house MP Rebekha Sharkie voted for the ABCC bill late yesterday.
Overnight NXT indicated they would knock back the Coalition’s one-month wait for the unemployed benefits for young people.
They will also knock back limits placed on the pension for those who spend more than six weeks overseas.
Sharkie pointed out on the pension rule changes, it would save about as much as the marriage plebiscite would cost. She suggested spending priorities were a matter for the government.
Updated
at 12.03am BST
10.51pm BST
22:51
Malcolm Turnbull has spoken to Bridge and Spida on Gold 92.5FM on the Gold Coast to discuss alleged union thuggery on the Commonwealth Games site.
He is asked about David Leyonhjelm saying he felt deceived by the government on the Adler ban.
Turnbull replied:
Let me be very clear about this: there is no proposal, or contemplation, or possibility of any weakening of John Howard’s gun laws. The national firearms agreement is set in stone.
The Adler shotgun is a category A weapon and can be widely bought by those with appropriate registration, he notes.
What has been proposed by police ministers and justice ministers is that this classification be changed so its availability be more restricted. The police ministers have not been able to reach agreement on that ... which is why a year ago we stepped in and said ‘right, until you agree on the reclassification of this particular weapon, there will be an import ban on it’. And that import ban will remain until such time as the state ministers come to a landing on the reclassification.
10.46pm BST
22:46
Tony Abbott: no way on God's Earth I would let Adlers flood the country
Abbott, Adlers and anxieties.
Katharine Murphy reported:
Tony Abbott has challenged Malcolm Turnbull to find “another deregulatory measure” to win the Liberal Democratic party senator David Leyonhjelm’s vote on restoring the building and construction commission and take gun control definitively off the table.
Abbott told Guardian Australia on Tuesday evening there was “no way on God’s Earth” he would have allowed eight-shot Adler guns to “flood into the country” while he was prime minister.
Abbott said he had moved to ban the weapons when he heard the guns were being imported, detecting the “anxiety” of police and security agencies – and the ban had then been subjected to a sunset clause because of what he termed “pushback in the Coalition” – not because of any agreement with Leyonhjelm on nonrelated migration legislation.
The pushback was from the Nationals, including three very senior members and officials who were on a shooting trip when they heard about the Adler ban in 2015.
Updated
at 12.08am BST
10.26pm BST
22:26
Mark Coulton and other National MPs are worried that the current debate is not based on evidence but on emotion.
It is my deep frustration Fran that this has become a major issue when it is really one of process. There is no one that I’ve heard that say the import of the Adler shotgun will make life less secure for the citizens of Australia.
He goes to the conversion kits available that can convert the five-shot Adler to an 11 shot. Coulton says he finds it hard to believe that conversion is possible but if people do that, they are breaking the law and should be prosecuted.
Coulton takes issue with Fran’s formulation that Turnbull said the Adler ban was set in stone.
He did not say the ban is set in stone ... There will be no watering down of process were his words.
Updated
at 12.09am BST
10.20pm BST
22:20
Fran Kelly has been talking to National MP Mark Coulton, who says there are a lot of rapid-fire guns that are quite legal.
He said Malcolm Turnbull and justice minister Michael Keenan were “spot on” with their messages.
This is about classification.
Coulton says the proposals is to put the Adler from category A to B. This would be a strengthening of firearm laws around the Adler. He says the change in classification would mean only farmers and certain shooters would have access.
Coulton says the Adler would mainly be used to shooting feral animals like pigs.
Currently, farmers might use pump-action or double-barrel shotguns to do that job.
But Coulton says there is demand for the Adler because it is seen to be reliable because it doesn’t jam, it is not expensive and has a reputation for efficiency.
Updated
at 12.10am BST
10.09pm BST
22:09
Good morning
With Malcolm Turnbull ratcheting up his rhetoric on maintaining the line on gun laws for the Adler shotgun, you could have started counting down the hours before his Coalition partner entered the debate.
Ding!
Late last night, two National MPs came out.
Nationals MP for Parkes Mark Coulton told Latika Bourke of Fairfax:
I’m hoping we can still get this through because I know of one gun dealer who has hundreds on order waiting for this decision
Nationals senator Bridget McKenzie told Faifax:
It is the responsibility of the states and territories to classify and restricting its access as [Grant’s] approach is a positive and common sense step.
The reason she says this is because the federal government is responsible for the import but the states are responsible for the classifications of guns.
The Howard-Fischer National Firearms Agreement requires the states to agree to the classification and before the federal government agrees to the import.
If the states cannot agree, the import ban remains in place.
The states and feds are meeting on Friday.
The Abbott government put the ban in place with a sunset clause as part of a deal with crossbencher David Leyonhjelm.
Overnight Abbott’s former chief of staff and Sky commentator Peta Credlin said:
“I want to say there was absolutely no deal between Tony Abbott and David Leyonhjelm in order to bring in the Adler shotgun,” she said.
“Let’s not forget we had gone through terror raid after terror raid and obviously Martin Place and Tony was adamant that it would not come into the country in the current classification that it was proposed for nor would it come in in the immediate aftermath of those arrest,” she said.
Credlin suggested Abbott would still feel the gun would still have “no place in Australia”.
Let’s get on with it. I am @gabriellechan on the Twits and @mpbowers is lurking. Stay with us during the day because there is plenty more, particularly around the Australian Building Construction Commission bill. While the Nick Xenophon Team voted for it in the House yesterday, they will seek to amend in the Senate in coming weeks.
Oh, and estimates are on again. Giddy up.
Updated
at 12.13am BST