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Impeachment hearings: key witness to reject claim Ukraine meddled in US election – live
Impeachment hearings: key witness to reject claim Ukraine meddled in US election – live
(32 minutes later)
Fiona Hill, ex-senior director for Europe and Russia on the national security council, and David Holmes, state department aide in Kyiv, testify
Military aid was withheld by Trump to express dissatisfaction or increase pressure, state department aide Holmes testifies
Holmes is describing corruption and public lies spread by the former Ukrainian prosecutor general Yuri Lutsenko, Giuliani’s ally in the effort to take down Yovanovitch.
Hill is telling the story of her coal-miner father and grandfather.
“Mr Giuliani and others made a number of public statements critical of Yovanovitch” and other statements calling for investigations of supposed Ukrainian interference in the US election, Burisma and the Bidens, Holmes says.
She said, “I take great pride in the fact that I am a nonpartisan foreign policy expert, who has served under three different Republican and Democratic presidents.”
Holmes brought receipts. He’s citing news reports, and Giuliani tweets, that track Giuliani’s growing campaign to call for a Biden investigation in Ukraine.
Hill gets into her opening statement. This line sounds an awful lot like a dig at John Bolton, her former boss who has resisted testifying:
Holmes has been saying that his focus and expertise is Ukrainian politics and definitely not US politics which he would rather stay out of.
Holmes wraps. Hill is up.
He’s describing Marie Yovanovitch’s work in Ukraine, favorably. US policy in the region was “overshadowed by a political agenda promoted by former New York City mayor Rudy Giuliani and a cadre of officials with direct access to the White House.”
Pace the president, it turns out that David Holmes is not the only one to have overheard a Trump phone call. From a Pulitzer Prize-winning columnist:
Holmes joined the foreign service in 2002 under George W Bush and has “proudly served” both parties, he says. He previously served in Russia, Afghanistan, India, Colombia and Kosovo.
Holmes says that Taylor and Yovanovitch’s testimony in the impeachment hearings reflects his own understanding.
He leads the political section in Kiev, focused on internal Ukrainian politics.
But he has recently read reports that certain senior officials were freelancing in Ukraine, not at the president’s direction, he said, and that evidence in the impeachment hearing was a matter of hearsay.
Meanwhile Trump is attacking the testimony Holmes is about to give, about overhearing Trump on the phone with Sondland:
Since he knew both to be untrue, Holmes testifies, he felt impelled to tell Taylor that he had firsthand information and to testify.
Didn’t somebody tell him not to do this after the Yovanovitch attack?
By August, Holmes says, “My clear impression was that the hold was intended by the president either as an expression of dissatisfaction...[that Ukrainians had not announced investigations] or as an attempt to increase the pressure on them to do so.”
Holmes is first.
Holmes then describes how embassy staff watched as Zelenskiy prepared to go on CNN in September to announce the investigations. They thought it was going to happen, Holmes said.
He introduces himself as a career foreign service officer stationed in Kiev since 2017. He reads the boilerplate about not seeking to testify but following the Mike Pompeo order about doing so truthfully.
Holmes says Sondland told him Trump only cared about “big stuff” in Ukraine “like the Biden investigation that Mr Giuliani was pushing”:
“My entire career has been in the service of my country,” he says.
Holmes continues telling the story of the lunch and Sondland’s conversation with Trump about springing A$AP Rocky from jail in Sweden.
After declaring his gratitude for the “merciful end” of the hearings, Nunes says the minority wants to convene an additional day of hearings, no doubt to hear from Hunter Biden. Slim chance of that coming to pass.
Holmes continues:
Now Nunes turns to Hill’s opening statement – before she has delivered it.
Holmes is now describing his day in Ukraine with Sondland, 26 July.
Nunes defends the committee against accusations that it has bypassed or papered over Russian election interference. That doesn’t mean we can’t investigate alleged Ukrainian interference, Nunes says. “Republicans believe we should take interference seriously by all foreign parties,” he says.
This is verbatim from his closed-door deposition:
“Today’s hearing marks the merciful end of this spectacle...” Nunes continues. “Whether the Democrats reap the political benefit they sought from this impeachment remains to be seen but the damage they have done to this country” will last long, Nunes warns.
Holmes says “contrary to standard procedure” he got no readout of the 25 July Trump-Zelenskiy call.
He says Democrats have “poisoned the mind of fanatics” who believe ... the witnesses?
When he read the call summary in September, Holmes says, “I was deeply disappointed to see that the president raised none” of the policy priorities “and instead raised the Biden-Burisma investigation and referred to the theory about Crowdstrike.”
Schiff is done and Nunes is up. Nunes calls the hearings “bizarre” and accuses the Democrats of changing their allegations depending on the day. He calls it a “carousel of accusations.”
Holmes said there was growing concern in Kiev that a Trump-Zelenskiy might not go well, after Trump met with Vladimir Putin in July.
Then he immediately jumps to “Ukrainian election meddling in his campaign” – the precise Russian propaganda narrative Hill will warn Republicans not to float.
Holmes is now on to military aid, which he describes as “crucial” in the Ukrainian defensive war against Russia.
“How do we have an impeachable offense here when there’s no actual misdeed and nobody even claiming to be a victim?” Nunes says.
Holmes said he traveled to US-run military training facilities in Ukraine with congress members including Republican Elise Stefanik who sits on the committee.
Then he brings up the Steele dossier.
He was “shocked” by the announcement in 18 July of the hold on assistance, Holmes says. The order had come from the president, an OMB official said, and it was conveyed by Mulvaney.
Trump has just tweeted:
Holmes is describing how the Ukrainians tried to arrange a White House meeting but had to settle, at first, for attending a June party in Brussels thrown by Gordon Sondland and featuring Jared Kushner and Jay Leno.
Those would be the transcripts in which Trump tells the Ukrainian president about the things he wants.
“The Ukrainian policy community was unanimous in recognizing the importance of securing a meeting,” Holmes said. “Ambassador Volker told us that the next five years could hang on what could be accomplished in the next three months.”
Schiff has arrived at the day, 26 July, Holmes spent with Sondland in Kiev. Zelenskiy told the group that on their phone call a day earlier, “president Trump had three times raised some very sensitive issues.” Holmes later understood the sensitive issues were the investigations Trump wanted.
Holmes said the White House would not budge on the presidential meeting. The message was that Zelenskiy needed to make clear to Trump that he would not stand in the way of investigations.
Holmes waited for Sondland and Andriy Yermak the Zelenskiy aide to meet alone. Then they went to lunch.
Schiff tells the lunch story. All the highlights are in there: “Loves your ass”, “So he’s going to do the investigation?” “He’s going to do it”, “President Trump doesn’t give a expletive about Ukraine, the president only cares about the big stuff like the Biden investigation that Giuliani was pushing.”
Schiff tells the story of a Hill-Sondland clash over Ukraine on 18 June 2019. Hill testified previously:
Schiff, moving quickly, is now on the story of the 10 July White House meetings in which Sondland told Ukrainians that a meeting was contingent on the announcement of investigations.
Schiff has quoted Bolton about Sondland and Mulvaney’s “drug deal” and Giuliani being a “hand grenade.”
Schiff moves to previewing the testimony we’ll hear today. Hill was alarmed by what Rudy Giuliani was saying on TV, Schiff says. National security adviser John Bolton and Holmes, the Kiev state department aide, were concerned too, Schiff says.
Ukraine ambassador Marie Yovanovitch’s “dismissal as a result of Giuliani’s smear campaign” was one thing that unsettled Dr Hill, Schiff says. The other was the role of Sondland who was pressuring Ukrainians to announce investigations.
Schiff is reading his opening statement. He is reviewing the highlight’s of Sondland’s testimony and describing two investigations Trump sought, the “discredited conspiracy theory” about 2016 election tampering and the Joe Biden investigation.
In conditioning a White House meeting and military aid on announcement of investigations, Schiff says, “Trump put his personal and political interest above the United States.”
The witnesses, Hill and Holmes, are behind their chairs and preparing to be sworn in.
The video player atop the blog there is the place to be – hearing room is full and we’re about to begin.
What will it be like to hear Fiona Hill take questions from Jim Jordan?
Brookings Institute senior fellow and Lawfare impresario Ben Wittes has a Twitter thread going about what to expect from Hill.
It includes this warning to Republicans:
Wittes’ thread in full:
Hill will warn that Russia has “geared up to repeat their interference in the 2020 election” and asks the committee not to help them by confusing who it was that attacked the United States in 2016.
But she will be competing with a very loud voice working to sow that confusion: Donald Trump. Witnesses have described an Ahab-like zeal on Trump’s part to uncover evidence of the Fox News- and Kremlin-promoted conspiracy theory that Ukraine worked to undermine him in 2016. “They tried to take me down,” he told diplomats in May.
Every prominent Republican on the intelligence committee, from ranking member Devin Nunes on down, has worked to advance the Ukraine election tampering conspiracy theory during the impeachment hearings.
Stop it, Hill will say:
Fiona Hill will seek to correct Republicans on the intelligence committee who have been saying for weeks that Ukraine colluded with Democrats to tamper the 2016 election, according to her opening statement just released – it is here.
“This is a fictional narrative that has been perpetrated and propagated by the Russian security services themselves,” Hill plans to say.
Hill delivered a similar message in her closed-door deposition last month. Hill’s statement this morning reads in part:
Hill will go on to say that the attack on career public servants during the impeachment proceedings – mounted by Donald Trump and Republicans – are part of the ongoing fallout of the successful Russian active measures campaign:
Good morning and welcome to our live coverage of day five of the impeachment hearings. It could be the final day of public testimony, with no further witnesses currently scheduled.
Testimony by Gordon Sondland, the ambassador to the European Union, on Wednesday reduced Donald Trump to yelling: “I want nothing! I want nothing!” after weeks of urging supporters to read the transcript of a phone call in which he tells the Ukrainian president about the things he wants.
Testimony today could prove no less extraordinary, and damaging for Trump. Appearing will be Fiona Hill, former senior director for Europe and Russia on the national security council (NSC), and David Holmes, a state department aide based in Kyiv.
Phrases we might hear today: “drug deal”, “hand grenade”, “loves your ass” and “President Trump does not give a shit about Ukraine”.
Come for the colorful language, stay for the substance. Hill, a coalminer’s daughter from County Durham, is a senior policy expert who can describe key White House scenes in which Sondland pressed the Ukrainians for investigations in exchange for a White House meeting.
Hill’s boss at the time, former national security adviser John Bolton, who has resisted testifying, told her to go straight to NSC lawyer John Eisenberg, she has said:
Holmes, meanwhile, was expected to describe the sunny day he spent with Sondland last July in Kyiv, which culminated with Sondland on a restaurant patio drinking wine and having a loud cellphone conversation with the president.
Sondland acknowledged both the White House meeting and restaurant conversation yesterday, but he did not quite recall every detail, such as telling Holmes that Trump only cares about “the big stuff” in Ukraine – meaning investigations that would help Trump.
Read more about Hill here:
And in case you tapered off before the evening close of yesterday’s hearings, here’s House intelligence committee chairman Adam Schiff’s concluding statement:
