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Impeachment hearings: Fiona Hill rejects Republicans' ‘fictional narrative’ Ukraine meddled in US election – live Impeachment hearings: Fiona Hill rejects Republicans' ‘fictional narrative’ Ukraine meddled in US election – live
(32 minutes later)
Military aid was withheld by Trump to express dissatisfaction or increase pressure, state department aide Holmes testifiesMilitary aid was withheld by Trump to express dissatisfaction or increase pressure, state department aide Holmes testifies
Nunes: “do you know Sergey Lutschenko?” the journalist and former parliamentarian.
Holmes does.
Nunes goes off on the Lutschenko- Nellie Ohr- Fusion GPS conspiracy theory. “He was in the parliament at the time... he provided the black ledger... is that seen as credible information?”
“Yes.”
Nunes: “The black ledger is credible?”
“Yes.”
Nunes: but wait, Mueller did not! find it credible.
Holmes: “I’m not aware that Bob Mueller did not find it credible,” but it was used as evidence in other criminal proceedings.
Nunes: Didn’t Lutschenko want to hurt Trump?
Holmes said Lutschenko was motivated by his usual motivation: “To expose corruption in Ukraine.”
Nunes: Didn’t Lutschenko admit wanting to hurt Trump?”
Holmes: “He has not said that to me. If he said that to you I’ll take your word for it.”
Nunes is attacking the opponents of corruption in Ukraine while advancing the Giuliani-Lutsenko narrative.
Castor is asking Holmes to describe the effectiveness of the Javelins.
“They’re an important strategic deterrence,” he says. “A very important symbolic message to the Ukrainian military.”
Ukrainians have offered to buy more, he says.
Castor notes that the consensus of the interagency is now to supply the Javelins.
Then Nunes takes over.
Hill talks about all the state department officials she was in contact with about her concerns about the campaign against Yovanovitch.
Castor asks if she wanted the US to provide Ukraine with Javelin anti-tank missiles. She says she was not before she came into government in 2017, but after she came in “I changed my mind.”
Castor turns to Holmes.
Castor is trying to hang Sondland out to dry again, insinuating that Sondland was not so close to Trump as Trump represented.
Hill said Sondland said “That it was the president who had put him in charge of this.”
Hill said she was concerned about “the removal of our ambassador” despite the president’s “perfect right to do so.” The smear campaign “was completely unnecessary” she felt.
She had a second cause for concern: “It was very clear at this point that there was let’s just say a different channel in operation... it was domestic and political in nature... and these two things had diverged.”
Castor asks Hill about Volker.
“Ambassador Volker is an extraordinarly accomplished diplomat,” Hill says. “The truth that we’re trying to get at, I know ambassador Volker very well, on a personal level as well.”
Now to Sondland. How did Hill learn of his role?
She says they worked closely with the EU on Ukraine matters, and she was in contact with Sondland there. “It was perfectly logical that Ambassador Sondland would play some kind of role” on Ukraine.
But when Sondland presented himself as in charge, Hill was concerned because Yovanovitch had just been recalled.
“I asked him quite bluntly” in a meeting after the May inauguration about his role, she says. “He said he was in charge of Ukraine, and I said ‘who put you in charge?’ and he said ‘the president’.”
Castor asks Hill if she was on the 25 July call.
No.
Castor asks what the thinking at the NSC was about such a call. Hill says perhaps there was some awareness of an upcoming call. “There were differences let’s say” about the call.
Hill opposed such a call at the time. And “To my knowledge Bolton was not in agreement... he felt that a call had not been properly prepared.”
Hill says she was surprised when she found a call had been scheduled.
On the timing of her learning about the aid suspension – 18 July, she says, the day before she left the White House.
Is it fair to say that stops and starts in aid like this sometimes do happen?
“That’s correct.”
Steve Castor the Republican lawyer is asking questions now.
Hill says that she’s read that the DNC paid Fusion GPS to pay Christopher Steele for his dossier.
Nunes is done asking questions.
Nunes: “I want to get a few basic facts on the table of individuals who were involved in the 2016 election to see who you know and whom you’ve met with.”
This is the same round of questioning Nunes has used every time and it’s meant to advance the conspiracy theory Hill has been warning about, that the Ukrainians and DNC colluded to tamper in the 2016 election.
Now we’re on to the Steele dossier. Steele was Hill’s counterpart for some time, and Hill met with him in 2016. She says she does not know the dates. “I don’t recall but I did meet with him some times before 2016.”
Nunes is asking Hill about the dossier. Hill says she saw the Steele dossier at the Brookings Institution the day before it was published. She called it “a rabbit hole.”
Schiff gavels the committee to order. Here’s Nunes.
The witnesses have returned to the room.
Clearly the House intelligence committee is having some trouble facing the fact that the afternoon ahead may represent the sunset hours of public hearings in impeachment ’19. Still waiting.
OK, Adam Schiff has come back to the hearing room and they’re about to resume for real this time. For updates also please follow @julianborger who is in the chamber.OK, Adam Schiff has come back to the hearing room and they’re about to resume for real this time. For updates also please follow @julianborger who is in the chamber.
A lot of people on the Internet are putting Trump’s lyrics to music. Who did it best?A lot of people on the Internet are putting Trump’s lyrics to music. Who did it best?
False alarm there about the hearing having resumed. We’re still waiting. When they come back – shouldn’t be long now – they are expected to begin with questioning by Nunes and the Republican lawyer.
Will Republicans push back against Hill’s warning to “please not promote politically driven falsehoods that so clearly advance the Russian interests”?
A further line from the House speaker’s news conference:
This is a bit of a sidebar to her testimony but Hill’s low estimation of the professional environment in the UK has not gone unnoticed.
“Years later, I can say with confidence that this country has offered for me opportunities I never would have had in England,” Hill testified. “I grew up poor with a very distinctive working-class accent.”
She continued:
House speaker Nancy Pelosi tells reporters that “the evidence is clear that the president has used his office for his own personal gain and in doing so undermined the national security of the United States.”
As for articles of impeachment: “We haven’t made any decision yet.”
Video of a key passage from Holmes:
As previously signaled by the attorney general, the justice department inspector general is steaming ahead to release a report on its investigation of the early stages of the Russia investigation.
That report is not to be confused with the separate investigation of the Russia investigation and special counsel inquiry headed up by US attorney John Durham. The justice department has announced the Durham inquiry is now a criminal inquiry but the who and what are unclear.
Video of a key moment:
Some reactions and analysis to this morning’s action in the impeachment hearing room:
Ok they’re taking a break.