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| Presidential debate: Clinton calls Trump 'Putin's puppet' – live updates | |
| (35 minutes later) | |
| 3.07am BST | |
| 03:07 | |
| Trump on election result: 'I will look at it at the time' | |
| Question for Trump: Will you accept the result of the election? | |
| Trump: “I will look at it at the time.” | |
| Wow. | |
| 3.06am BST | |
| 03:06 | |
| Fact check: TPP, Isis | |
| Alan Yuhas | Alan Yuhas |
| Trump: Clinton flip-flopped on the Trans Pacific Partnership | |
| Trump is right: Clinton has not been consistent on the Trans Pacific Partnership, and her language from 2010 through 2014 suggests she was broadly in support of Barack Obama’s trade deal, before eventually opposing it as a presidential candidate. As secretary of state in 2012, she said: “This TPP sets the gold standard in trade agreements to open free, transparent, fair trade, the kind of environment that has the rule of law and a level playing field. And when negotiated, this agreement will cover 40 percent of the world’s total trade and build in strong protections for workers and the environment.” | |
| She continued to praise it while she worked for the Obama administration, variously calling it “high quality”, “cutting edge”, “groundbreaking” and “high standard”. | |
| Trump: “She gave us Isis … she created a vacuum” | |
| The claim that Hillary Clinton “gave” the world Isis condenses and distorts a conservative view that, closer to its original form, says that that by withdrawing American forces from Iraq Barack Obama created a power vacuum in which Isis could rise. | |
| This argument ignores that Isis’s first segments formed out of Iraq’s civil war, while George W Bush was president; that the group gained strength in Syria’s civil war, where the US did not intervene until 2014; that Obama withdrew American forces in 2011 under the timeline agreed on by Bush and Baghdad; and that both Bush and Obama failed to come to an agreement with Baghdad over troops – in large part over a disagreement about whether American troops could be prosecuted by Iraq. | |
| Trump supported the invasion of Iraq in 2003 and “surgical” intervention to remove Libyan dictator Muammar Ghaddafi in 2011, though he now claims otherwise. He also supported withdrawal from Iraq in 2007 and 2008. | |
| Trump: those stories have been largely debunked | |
| The sexual allegations against Trump have not been “debunked”, though they have not been proven, either. For context, Jill Harth sued Trump in 1997 for “attempted rape” and earlier this year told the Guardian he “me up against the wall” of a child’s bedroom “and had his hands all over me and tried to get up my dress”. Jessica Leeds and Rachel Cooks recounted to the New York Times that Trump had groped the former “like an octopus” and kissed the latter without consent. Reporter Natasha Stoynoff has said Trump cornered her in a room in 2005 and “within seconds, he was pushing me against the wall, and forcing his tongue down my throat”. Mindy McGillivray told the Palm Beach Post a similar story, saying that Trump groped her 13 years ago, also at his Mar-a-Lago property in Florida. Summer Zervos, a former Apprentice contestant, has alleged that he groped and kissed her without consent in 2007. Temple Taggart accused Trump of advances at rehearsal for the 1997 Miss USA pageant, photographer Kirsten Anderson said Trump groped her at a nightclub in the 1990s, and Cathy Heller said he grabbed and kissed her at a Mar-A-Lago brunch in 1997. | |
| The Trump campaign has denied the allegations. It has produced a self-professed witness, who has a history of making unproven claims, from the flight with Leeds, and a letter from the cousin of Zervos expressing doubt about her claim but not calling her a liar. “I can only imagine that Summer’s actions today are nothing more than an attempt to regain the spotlight at Mr Trump’s expense,” his letter said. | |
| Trump: “I did not say that [women were not unattractive enough for him to advance on]” | |
| Trump clearly suggested that he did not find at least one of his accusers attractive, saying “She would not be my first choice, believe me.” | |
| Trump: “They hired people [to incite violence at rallies], they gave them $1,500 … she caused the violence, it’s on tape!” | |
| Trump appears to be alluding to an edited video that suggests a few Democratic staffers had hired people to incite violence. One of those staffers has resigned, and said that “none of the schemes described in the conversations ever took place”. So far there is no proof that anyone was actually hired to cause violence. | |
| 3.06am BST | |
| 03:06 | |
| Trump says the Trump Foundation money goes to charity. He denies foundation funds were used to pay a penalty to Palm Beach County for a zoning-violating-flagpole. | |
| Clinton: “He hasn’t released his tax returns... what we have learned... he has not paid a penny in federal income tax. | |
| “We have more undocumented immigrants in America paying more in federal taxes than one of our [nominees].” | |
| Trump is trapped in this conversation: “You should have changed the law when you were a United States senator.” | |
| Trump says earlier today “I was sitting in my apartment in the very beautiful hotel”. | |
| Clinton with a zinger! “That the Chinese built,” she interjects. Zing zing zing feel the heat ... | |
| Updated | Updated |
| at 3.08am BST | |
| 3.05am BST | |
| 03:05 | |
| Updated | |
| at 3.08am BST | |
| 3.03am BST | |
| 03:03 | |
| Question for Clinton: At your senate confirmation you promised no conflict of interest with Clinton foundation. But donors had special access, your emails show. Did you keep your pledge? | |
| Clinton: “Everything I did as secretary of state was in furtherance of our country’s interest and our values. ... but I am happy, in fact I am thrilled to talk about the Clinton foundation, because it is a world-renowned charity.” | |
| Clinton begins talking about HIV/Aids treatment. Wonder if she’ll manage to cut herself off in time to mention the Trump foundation? | |
| Wallace cuts her off, Trump is yelling “it’s a criminal enterprise, Saudi Arabia giving $25m... these are people that push gays off buildings... why don’t you give back the money that you’ve taken from certain countries.” | |
| Clinton is smiling, small-ly, to herself. | |
| Trump says that Haiti hates the Clintons. | |
| Clinton: “The Clinton foundation spent 90% of all the money that is donated on behalf of programs around the world.. I’d be happy to compare to the Trump foundation that took money from other people and bought a six-foot portrait of Donald. | |
| “I mean, who does that?” | |
| 3.02am BST | |
| 03:02 | |
| Mona Chalabi | Mona Chalabi |
| Sexual assault happens every day. What makes the allegations against Trump rare is not just who Trump is, it’s that the allegations were ever even heard. Only two out of three sexual assaults are reported to the police according to Bureau of Justice Statistics. | |
| Of the sexual violence crimes that were not reported to police from 2005-2010, victims provided reasons for not reporting the incident. They included: | |
| 3.00am BST | |
| 03:00 | |
| Trump: “Nobody has more respect for women than I do.” (There is some audience laughter at this. “And frankly those stories have been debunked. And I want to talk about something slightly different.” | |
| Guess what he wants to talk about? Clinton’s emails. You know the highlights. Some 33,000 deleted emails. Four-star generals (Petraeus). She’s lied hundreds of times. And she gets away with it? | |
| “That’s what you should really be talking about, not fiction,” says Trump. | |
| Clinton: “Every time Donald is pushed, he immediately goes to denying responsibility, and it’s not just women. He never apologizes ... he also went after a disabled reporter...” | |
| Trump: WRONG. | |
| Clinton: He went after Mr and Mrs Khan. He went after John McCain ... [and] a federal judge born in Indiana ... because his parents are Mexican. | |
| So it’s not one thing. This is a pattern. A pattern of divisiveness... that is not who America is, and I hope that as we move to the last weeks of this campaign, more and more people understand what’s at stake. | |
| Trump: “She talks about violence at my rallies, she caused the violence... I’d love to talk about other things.” | |
| Updated | Updated |
| at 3.01am BST | |
| 2.59am BST | |
| 02:59 | |
| @lucia_graves @guardian Trump lied and lied again. He says he doesn't know any of the women. Well, he definitely knew me. I told the truth | |
| 2.56am BST | |
| 02:56 | |
| Clinton: “At the last debate, we heard Donald talking about what he did to women. And we had a number of women coming forward saying that’s what he did to them.” | |
| Clinton says Trump said that he could not have possibly done that because they weren’t attractive enough. | |
| Trump: “I did not say that. I did not say that.” | |
| Clinton keeps up. She’s unloading on him, quoting him to himself. “Donald thinks belittling women makes him bigger... I don’t think there’s a woman out there who doesn’t know what that feels like.” | |
| Clinton says that’s who Donald is and the country has to stand up and declare its own identity. “America is great because America is good, and it really is up to all of us to make that true.” | |
| 2.55am BST | |
| 02:55 | |
| Lucia Graves | |
| Here’s another way Donald Trump isn’t fit to be president. | |
| In attempting to re-up a favorite talking point of his about Clinton’s general dishonesty, Trump said Clinton is “a liar on so many different ways”. | |
| The trouble here is not just that is a substance-free attack - Trump has been shown to lie roughly every five minutes while Clinton is actually unusually truthful compared to other presidential candidates, as Politifact has previously observed. | |
| Jill Abramson has noted that in all the investigations into Clinton’s business dealings, fundraising, foundation and marriage that she launched in her tenure as the top editor of the New York Times, she never found any smoking guns. | |
| In fact, she came away with a rather different revelation: “Hillary Clinton is fundamentally honest and trustworthy,” she wrote back in March. | |
| 2.54am BST | |
| 02:54 | |
| Next topic: fitness to be president. | |
| Wallace asks Trump about the nine women who have accused him in recent weeks of groping and or kissing them. Why would they do that? | |
| Trump: “Those stories have been largely debunked... I don’t know those people. I have a feeling it was her campaign that did it.” | |
| Then Trump says Clinton and Obama hired people to cause violence at his rallies. | |
| “The stories were all totally false, and I didn’t even apologize to my wife, who is sitting right here, because I didn’t even do anything.” | |
| Then he repeats his claim that his accusers just want fame. And now he’s back to his violent Chicago rally, “Started by her.” He accuses Clinton of infiltrating his rally. | |
| 2.53am BST | |
| 02:53 | |
| Fact check: debt and 'missing' money | |
| Alan Yuhas | |
| Trump: Obama has doubled the debt | |
| Trump has the raw numbers just about right. When Obama took office on 20 January 2009, the federal debt was $10.63tn. As of 28 September 2016, it was $19.5tn. Trump omits, however, two key points: Congress controls the government’s wallet (ie Obama cannot spend or tax without approval from lawmakers), and Obama took office during the financial crisis, when Republicans, Democrats and most economists agreed that the US needed to spend in order to counteract the collapsing economy. Pence has the right numbers but imputes too much responsibility on the president. | |
| Clinton: Trump’s plan largely helps the wealthy and add $20tn in debt | |
| Clinton is correct that although Trump’s tax plan would cut taxes for everyone, it would disproportionately help the wealthiest Americans, saving them millions of dollars and adding $5.3tn to the national debt, according to an analysis by the Tax Foundation, a conservative thinktank. She seems to be citing another analysis, by the nonpartisan Tax Policy Center, about the debt, and possibly overstates its estimated consequences. | |
| That center warned that without severe spending cuts, the plan would balloon national debt “by nearly 80% of gross domestic product by 2036, offsetting some or all of the incentive effects of the tax cuts”. According to that group, half of Trump’s tax cuts would go to the top 1% of earners, and most families below the top 20% of earners would have income gains of less than 1%. | |
| Trump: “When you ran the State Department, $6bn was missing! Maybe it was stolen … nobody knows” | |
| This is not correct. Trump is alluding to a March 2014 alert, about contractor spending in the Middle East and Africa, by the State Department’s inspector general, who was so perturbed by careless language around the $6bn figure that he wrote the Washington Post a letter that April. His alert did not conclude that the money was “missing” he told the Post, but rather that officials had failed “to adequately maintain contract files” that created “significant financial risk”. Files were missing or incomplete regarding several dozen contracts, not the money itself, and the State Department agreed to his recommendations. | |
| Updated | |
| at 2.55am BST | |
| 2.52am BST | |
| 02:52 | |
| Clinton’s parallel histories of the last 30 years is effective. She draws a contrast between killing bin Laden and Trump running Celebrity Apprentice. | |
| Trump says he’s proud of her experience. Then he says “Take a look at Syria.” | |
| “She gave us Isis,” Trump says. He says it twice. “She gave us Isis as sure as you are sitting there.” | |
| Wallace jumps in. It’s not time to talk foreign policy yet, he says. | |
| 2.51am BST | |
| 02:51 | |
| Clinton gets to reply on trade. She says the final TPP agreement did not meet her test. We’ve heard that explanation many times. “There’s only one of us onstage that’s shipped jobs to Mexico, and that’s Donald, who has shipped jobs to 12 countries... Donald has bought Chinese steel and aluminum, in fact the Trump hotel right here in Las Vegas is made with Chinese steel.” | |
| He is stone faced. Speak, Trump: | |
| “I asked a simple question. She’s been doing this for 30 years. Why the hell didn’t you do this over the last 15, 20 years?” | |
| Clinton tries to get in, but Trump says “my turn.” | |
| Trump: “The one thing you have over me is experience. But it’s bad experience.” | |
| Chinese steel? Trump says. “I’d make it impossible for me to do that. I wouldn’t mind.” | |
| Trump: “If you become president this country is going to be a mess, believe me.” | |
| Clinton says the issue of her 30 years of experience is important. Now she starts to describe their parallel experiences over the last 30 years. | |
| 2.50am BST | |
| 02:50 | |
| Fact check: endorsements, borders and debt | |
| Alan Yuhas | |
| Trump: “The border patrol agents, 16,500 plus, ICE, endorsed me. First time they’ve ever endorsed a candidate” | |
| Immigration and Customs Enforcement is a government agency. It does not endorse political candidates. A union representing about 7,600 ICE officials endorsed Trump in September. A group representing 16,500 of 21,000 border patrol agents similarly endorsed Trump; this does not represent all the agents. | |
| Trump: Clinton called for “open borders” | |
| Clinton is correct that Trump took the quote out of context: she was talking primarily about trade to Banco Itau, a Brazilian bank that eventually became Unibanco. Here’s what she said, according to a hacked email released by Wikileaks: | |
| My dream is a hemispheric common market, with open trade and open borders, some time in the future with energy that is as green and sustainable as we can get it, powering growth and opportunity for every person in the hemisphere. | |
| Clinton has flip-flopped on free trade since 2013, most notably supporting and then rejecting the Trans Pacific Partnership. | |
| Trump: I’m a big fan of Nato but they have to pay up | |
| Trump is not necessarily a big fan of Nato, which he has called “obsolete”, and he’s wrong that allies do not pay for US military bases, though they do not pay perhaps as much as some Nato commanders want. | |
| The US has urged its Nato allies to pay more for years, especially as eastern and central European allies have loudly warned about aggressive Russian action. The US currently pays about 22% of overall Nato spending, compared to Germany’s 15%, France’s 11%, the UK’s 10%, etc, and most Nato members fail to pay the 2% of GDP into defense as the alliance’s guidelines dictate. But the US does receive payments for military bases abroad from countries like Japan and South Korea, and takes profits from arms deals (sometimes to controversial clients, such as Saudi Arabia). | |
| The US also benefits strategically through foreign military bases, which have acted as foundations for American influence abroad. | |
| Clinton: I will not add a penny to the debt | |
| Estimates suggest Clinton is not wholly correct. Her proposed tax plan would add $191bn to the debt over the long term, according to the Committee for a Responsible Budget, a conservative thinktank. The Tax Policy Center, however, estimates that she would add $1.1tn in revenue in a decade, though much of that would be offset by increased spending. The Tax Foundation estimated that Trump’s plan would add $5.3tn to the debt. | |
| Trump: I never said Japan should have nuclear weapons | |
| Trump has suggested Japan and South Korea should develop their own nuclear weapons. He told the New York Times in March: “Well I think maybe it’s not so bad to have Japan — if Japan had that nuclear threat, I’m not sure that would be a bad thing for us.” | |
| Trump says you won't find a quote from me suggesting Japan gets nuclear weapons..... err.... #debate pic.twitter.com/TMtvOeJiwq | |
| 2.47am BST | |
| 02:47 | |
| Wallace says that conservative economists have scored his plan and found it unrealistic. | |
| “I just left some high representatives of India, they’re growing at 8%... we are growing at the 1% level and I think it’s going down. ... last week they came out with anemic jobs report. And I said, is that the last jobs report before the election, because if it is, I should win easily.” | |
| Trump says the economy is terrible. He’s made new friends and cried over shuttered factories. “It is just horrible what’s happening to these people.” | |
| He hits Clinton over the Bill Clinton -era Nafta deal, which is currently nationally unpopular. | |
| 2.45am BST | |
| 02:45 | |
| Wallace tells Clinton her jobs plan was like the Obama stimulus plan which did not produce strong growth. | |
| “Right,” Trump interjects, smiling. He can’t stay off the mic. We’re halfway through. | |
| Clinton is taking us through a thumbnail history of the bailout and stimulus years. She says Obama does not get credit. She says it’s time to invest “from the middle out and the ground up, not the top down!” She invests that last phrase with some Sandersesque passion. OK not quite Sandersesque but some. |